Thanks for the hints guys. He is actually pretty hard to cast for two white mana on turn two. So maybe timely reinforcements would be a good card. It might also help against the mono green stompy deck.
I like blessed alliance too, it would have been good against burn and death shadow deck. And it almost always has a good mode.
So maybe one blessed mainboard? what would you take out?
I'll also try taking out two kor firewalkers for 2 timely reinforcements.
I also have 1 ajani vengeant in my collection, should I move one to the sideboard as well? Is he worth it mainboard, 4 mana sorcery speed is pretty rough.
What about the new gideon of trials?
Nothing comes close to Kor Firewalker against burn
Care to explain? I have played competitive Jeskai for many years and have always found firewalker lacking. I have found it useful at time in a straight U/W list but not so useful in Jeskai.
Timely Reinforcements gives you 3 bodies and 6 life (plus flashback opp w Snap).
Ajani Vengeant is almost always a 2 for one and is great in other match-ups.
Blessed Alliance, as you say is also good in other match-ups.
Against Naya Burn in particular there are many turns where you can't block with it which is a very huge downside. They have 8 "damage can't be prevented" effects at instance speed and 4 of them grow their 2/2 so it will just eat the firewalker. "
Furthermore, I rarely see lists run this card anymore.
Generally I advise Jeskai players to pack multiple life gain spells that can be flashed back with Snapcaster or cards like Ajani Vengeant which is extremely effective.
Atarka's Command does not prevent damage, so it's just Skullcrack we need to be aware of if we want to block with Firewalker.
Firewalker is much harder to play around than a slow 3 mana (timely) or 4 mana (ajani) sorcery speed spell, because it gains 1 life many times, instead of several life one time. The prot. blocking is of course also very useful. Also, its a clock they can't touch. You'll generally start attacking with it pretty soon to end the game, while it gains life incrementally from your own and your opponents spells. You'll often need counter backup when playing timely or ajani, or you can be blown out, so it may be as late as 4-5-6 mana. Good luck with that if you're stuck on lands that particular game. Blessed alliance doesn't do as much, it's effectively just a "Counter target boros charm", but the instant speed and usefulness with snapcaster counts up. Helix is generally better than blessed because you can remove a creature in addition to the lifegain.
Burn fell out of top tier status for a while (before it returned more recently), so people then cut down on burn hate and Firewalkers a while back.
The WW casting cost can be a problem in jeskai (contra UW), but it will gain even more life in jeskai than UW because we play our own red spells.
Not saying everyone should play Firewalkers, but for people in burn-heavy local metas, I definitely think it's the most effective answer.
Nothing comes close to Kor Firewalker against burn
Care to explain? I have played competitive Jeskai for many years and have always found firewalker lacking. I have found it useful at time in a straight U/W list but not so useful in Jeskai.
Timely Reinforcements gives you 3 bodies and 6 life (plus flashback opp w Snap).
Ajani Vengeant is almost always a 2 for one and is great in other match-ups.
Blessed Alliance, as you say is also good in other match-ups.
Against Naya Burn in particular there are many turns where you can't block with it which is a very huge downside. They have 8 "damage can't be prevented" effects at instance speed and 4 of them grow their 2/2 so it will just eat the firewalker. "
Furthermore, I rarely see lists run this card anymore.
Generally I advise Jeskai players to pack multiple life gain spells that can be flashed back with Snapcaster or cards like Ajani Vengeant which is extremely effective.
Atarka's Command does not prevent damage, so it's just Skullcrack we need to be aware of if we want to block with Firewalker.
Firewalker is much harder to play around than a slow 3 mana (timely) or 4 mana (ajani) sorcery speed spell, because it gains 1 life many times, instead of several life one time. The prot. blocking is of course also very useful. Also, its a clock they can't touch. You'll generally start attacking with it pretty soon to end the game, while it gains life incrementally from your own and your opponents spells. You'll often need counter backup when playing timely or ajani, or you can be blown out, so it may be as late as 4-5-6 mana. Good luck with that if you're stuck on lands that particular game. Blessed alliance doesn't do as much, it's effectively just a "Counter target boros charm", but the instant speed and usefulness with snapcaster counts up. Helix is generally better than blessed because you can remove a creature in addition to the lifegain.
Burn fell out of top tier status for a while (before it returned more recently), so people then cut down on burn hate and Firewalkers a while back.
The WW casting cost can be a problem in jeskai (contra UW), but it will gain even more life in jeskai than UW because we play our own red spells.
Not saying everyone should play Firewalkers, but for people in burn-heavy local metas, I definitely think it's the most effective answer.
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
Your early game interaction is MORE than good enough and sounds like you did alright. Any more early interaction will come at the cost of your other cards, plus I have no idea what other early interaction you could possibly add. Know that Burn and Zoo decks can have some unbeatable draws and that's just magic.
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
If you're gaining 12 life off of a Timely, you were already winning that game. Alliance isn't always a 2-for-1, if they have a spell heavy hand it's like a 1.3-for-1. Snapping back an Alliance is 4 mana or more, which isn't good in the matchup.
It's a rare sideboard card because Burn is only 5% of the meta and Zoo is non-existent. The card doesn't do anything against Shadow, where as Blessed Alliance and Condemn are both more reasonable there. The best thing for you to be Snapping back in that matchup is Lightning Helix because it gets close to a 3-for-1 a good amount of the time. Ajani is far too slow, 4 mana Lightning Helix isn't good enough.
Firewalker is best against Burn, and worse than other cards in other matchups, and that's why you don't see it.
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
If you're gaining 12 life off of a Timely, you were already winning that game.
This point doesn't make a ton of sense. I play Timely the first time it might get hit with skull crack or A-Command and I might be shocking myself to get low enough to gain the six life. I then wait until my life is low again and flash it back. This is a VERY common sequence against burn.
Alliance isn't always a 2-for-1, if they have a spell heavy hand it's like a 1.3-for-1. Snapping back an Alliance is 4 mana or more, which isn't good in the matchup.
I don't think I said Alliance is always a 2 for one. And snapping it back at four mana is not difficult at all because you've already likely fired it off at instant speed to "counter" a boros charm or some other tap out spell at end of turn.
It's a rare sideboard card because Burn is only 5% of the meta and Zoo is non-existent. The card doesn't do anything against Shadow, where as Blessed Alliance and Condemn are both more reasonable there. The best thing for you to be Snapping back in that matchup is Lightning Helix because it gets close to a 3-for-1 a good amount of the time. Ajani is far too slow, 4 mana Lightning Helix isn't good enough.
How are your lightning helixs getting 3-1s? Also Ajani is fine at four mana because he is a toolbox sideboard card that is good in many match-ups. After sideboard you are presumably going pretty long against burn as most of your spells are good against them.
Firewalker is best against Burn, and worse than other cards in other matchups, and that's why you don't see it.
Firewalker is not even in the top 3-4 cards vs. burn for Jeskai. It's quite a bit better in straight U/W because it's much easier to hit WW in that deck without double fetch, double shock.
Here's a fun one you guys can try if you want to switch things up a bit. I have been tuning this Geist/burn midrange list for a while and have had my best results in the last few weeks. You usually win the fair match-ups by racing and Helix ends up being the best instant in the deck by a large margin in those games. Hence the inclusion of warleader's helix which was originally a one of but was often a card I was hoping to draw and as I played two a lot of matchups became better. It's very easy to kill your opponent's with single hit from a resto or two hits from a snap (and the rest burn) but the creature package supports Geist very well and often you can trade off the geist and get in the angel hit and burn out the opponent (or play your other geist!).
Any questions let me know. But this one is a delight!
Why do you run Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter TappingStones? Isn't ghost quarter better in a midrange shell? We don't need many resources for counter wars against control so I guess we can get away destroying their manlands and refuelling them with new ones and tectonic edge is sort of slow against tron. Why do you run electrolyze?
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My decksies:
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Why do you run Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter TappingStones? Isn't ghost quarter better in a midrange shell? We don't need many resources for counter wars against control so I guess we can get away destroying their manlands and refuelling them with new ones and tectonic edge is sort of slow against tron. Why do you run electrolyze?
I've actually run Tec edge over Ghost Quarter for a long time now. Here's the idea. People often say they run Ghost Quarter for Tron (or similar sentiment) from playing the match-up hundreds of times I found that even when I was running 4x maindeck Ghost Quarter my opp would usually still easily get Tron and beat me. And setting myself back on the land drop in the early game was not good either.
If you want to beat tron you have to run very strong hate cards in your sideboard.
Tec edge is the much better card against most decks. It's a mid to late game weapon to kill things like opposing Colonnades, and abzan/jund manlands. Occassionally you get to slow down Scapeshift with it(without giving them a basic).
I don't think there is upside for Jeskai to run Ghost Quarter and I'm curious if anyone is really having success stripping their lands in the early game (and giving basics) when they can just tec edge.
In regards to Electrolyze, I don't run it in my Jeskai Nahiri builds at the moment but that Geist list is a midrange burn deck. The 2 damage plus cycling is solid in that deck.
Blood Moon is a new addition. I used to play crumble, but I feel like blood moon is just better with the rise of Eldrazi Tron.
Of course... it makes Elspeth in the board marginally worse. Thoughts?
Why do you run Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter TappingStones? Isn't ghost quarter better in a midrange shell? We don't need many resources for counter wars against control so I guess we can get away destroying their manlands and refuelling them with new ones and tectonic edge is sort of slow against tron. Why do you run electrolyze?
I've actually run Tec edge over Ghost Quarter for a long time now. Here's the idea. People often say they run Ghost Quarter for Tron (or similar sentiment) from playing the match-up hundreds of times I found that even when I was running 4x maindeck Ghost Quarter my opp would usually still easily get Tron and beat me. And setting myself back on the land drop in the early game was not good either.
If you want to beat tron you have to run very strong hate cards in your sideboard.
Tec edge is the much better card against most decks. It's a mid to late game weapon to kill things like opposing Colonnades, and abzan/jund manlands. Occassionally you get to slow down Scapeshift with it(without giving them a basic).
I don't think there is upside for Jeskai to run Ghost Quarter and I'm curious if anyone is really having success stripping their lands in the early game (and giving basics) when they can just tec edge.
I've always liked Tec Edge better than GQ just like in the old school UWR lists but these days I play GQ instead. I agree about early GQ not being too backbreaking for Tron. I've turn 2 GQ Tron 2 games straight and they still got Tron online fairly early and the land disadvantage felt like it hurt me more. But it is still nice to have the option to prevent turn 3 Tron if needed.
Though, the main reason I play GQ in my utility land slot these days is because of the "mana fixing" it provides if needed. On more than 1 occasion I've GQ my own land to fix my mana in clutch situations. That reason is what ultimately sold me on playing GQ.
Ye seen like that tectonic edge actually seems like a very reasonable choice TappingStones.
I also agree that Tron is sort of a give up match-up, so I might try to run two Tectonic Edge over Ghost Quarter.
But on the other hand I've actually won two games ghost quarting myself for that extra mountain for the last points of burns. My list is also burn oriented like yours but not so much. I have more controlling elements so I have more white/blue lands and some times, not very often I get land screwed against decks that I don't want to shock myself against (I don't run warleaders helix, I run boros charm instead as you might have noticed a few pages back - regarding that list I actually dropped the last Cryptic Command the serum visions for remands like you and two extra charms).
I would really like seeing a UWR Geist build getting a top8 in some GP this year, but it seems it's not meant to be!
I am a geist fan, what can I say, I run it in every format (except legacy, cause nemesis is better :c).
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My decksies:
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Ye seen like that tectonic edge actually seems like a very reasonable choice TappingStones.
I also agree that Tron is sort of a give up match-up, so I might try to run two Tectonic Edge over Ghost Quarter.
But on the other hand I've actually won two games ghost quarting myself for that extra mountain for the last points of burns. My list is also burn oriented like yours but not so much. I have more controlling elements so I have more white/blue lands and some times, not very often I get land screwed against decks that I don't want to shock myself against (I don't run warleaders helix, I run boros charm instead as you might have noticed a few pages back - regarding that list I actually dropped the last Cryptic Command the serum visions for remands like you and two extra charms).
I would really like seeing a UWR Geist build getting a top8 in some GP this year, but it seems it's not meant to be!
I am a geist fan, what can I say, I run it in every format (except legacy, cause nemesis is better :c).
Yeah, it's a fun deck. The Warleader's Helix are pretty fun because opponents often are surprised you are running it but it's exactly what the deck wants. It's usually the card you want to draw.
Ye seen like that tectonic edge actually seems like a very reasonable choice TappingStones.
But on the other hand I've actually won two games ghost quarting myself for that extra mountain for the last points of burns.
Man I just did this play last night against a B/R control deck. Had him at 10 life with a snap in play and he tapped out for demigod after shredding my hand with discard. I had 4 lands in play - 2 Fountain, 1 Vents, 1 GQ and a snap and bolt in hand. He hit for 5 with the demigod and I EOT bolt him to 7, then I GQ my tapped Vents and got a Mountain, played a snap flashing back that bolt with the Mountain I got with GQ, and swung for lethal with double snaps next turn. Was hella cool!
While I like that geist list a lot, do you think there is any merit to playing cycling lands?
1-2 in a 24 land deck (esp given all the cantrips) could be pretty strong.
You aren't quite a delver deck, so a few tapped lands might not kill you.
Depends on how much you value colonnade, I suppose, but I've never loved it in the more aggressive jeskai strategies.
Part of me wants to run more creatures to help clock my opponents, but I really don't want to tap out for anything that's not Geist, and in some matchups I don't even want to tap out for Geist.
When looking through creatures with Flash, something looked kind of interesting. Rattlechains. I wouldn't feel bad playing a 2/1 flyer end of opponent's turn 2 (in some cases I've been doing that with Snapcasters against combo), and against a lot of decks, a 2/1 flier turns into a free shock to the face each turn that also trades evenly with a good number of creatures like Goblin Guide or Eidolon of the Great Revel, or in the worst cases, chump block. They can be removed, but then that's a removal that Spell Queller wont need to get hit by later on.
Additionally, if I draw them later in the game, it would provide me 2 major benefits. Blanking targetted removal on spell queller (My major removal magnet), and giving Flash to Geist (Which I've sometimes had sit dead in my hand because a single resolved scapeshift would lose me the game, and I needed to hold mana to counter the spell and then counter/exile the counter.)
As such, I've been thinking of running a list like this.
Currently I'm also considering an esper version for if the people where I play get tired of playing so much combo and thus switch back to fair decks, which would make Fatal Push much better than Bolt, and Linger Souls just an amazing card in general
Esper doesn't pair well with geist in modern, you'll lose a lot of reach that he needs not to mention that man-lands are smaller and your aggro match ups will be worse. That's my opinion, mind that I have nothing against esper, but I tried it before and for me, a UW version would be the best, but unfortunately, red is a must with geist.
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My decksies:
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Esper doesn't pair well with geist in modern, you'll lose a lot of reach that he needs not to mention that man-lands are smaller and your aggro match ups will be worse. That's my opinion, mind that I have nothing against esper, but I tried it before and for me, a UW version would be the best, but unfortunately, red is a must with geist.
I agree that red is the best color to pair with Geist, however, Shizo, Death's Storehouse is the truth
Rather play Eiganjo Castle, it is almost as good as the one you mentioned Geists' life and there is a small chance that your opponent chump blocks with a small creature hoping to kill him only to end up losing that creature and not killing the Geist of Saint Traft as planned. Does not happen often, specially at more serious tournaments, but it can happen. Sure, fear increases the clock on your opponent more than Eiganjo does, but red provides more clock than black and black makes you shock yourself more often (i.e.: Thoughtseize). But in the end, neither Jeskai nor Esper Geist decks are true tier decks, so I guess everybody does whatever they want to do as long as they enjoy it.
I would like to add something that is very obvious, but I only noticed the "interaction" while play testing today. Boros Charm, apart from being a great Geist life saver and finisher, also kills Liliana of the Veil the turn she enter the field (considering you don't have some counter in hand for her). I wonder about the possibility of going down a singleton Negate in order to add another conditional counter such as Mana Leak so that I am still somewhat efficient at countering Liliana before she comes into play, slightly less efficient at countering Collected Company, but allowing me to hit creatures as well, should the need arise. Specially considering Scapeshift decks and other combos where Negate is really important aren't very popular right now, apart from Storm which is a average to good match-up for Jeskai Geist anyway.
For the moment I am going to leave the list as is.
Modern:...........................UWR UWR Geist of Saint Traft UWR
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
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I like blessed alliance too, it would have been good against burn and death shadow deck. And it almost always has a good mode.
So maybe one blessed mainboard? what would you take out?
I'll also try taking out two kor firewalkers for 2 timely reinforcements.
I also have 1 ajani vengeant in my collection, should I move one to the sideboard as well? Is he worth it mainboard, 4 mana sorcery speed is pretty rough.
What about the new gideon of trials?
As for vendilion clique's, I'm trying to get one or two of them. And will probably put one maindeck and take out either a geist of saint traft or a restoration angel.
Scalding tarn's are also on my wishlist, as it will improve my manabase a lot.
Atarka's Command does not prevent damage, so it's just Skullcrack we need to be aware of if we want to block with Firewalker.
Firewalker is much harder to play around than a slow 3 mana (timely) or 4 mana (ajani) sorcery speed spell, because it gains 1 life many times, instead of several life one time. The prot. blocking is of course also very useful. Also, its a clock they can't touch. You'll generally start attacking with it pretty soon to end the game, while it gains life incrementally from your own and your opponents spells. You'll often need counter backup when playing timely or ajani, or you can be blown out, so it may be as late as 4-5-6 mana. Good luck with that if you're stuck on lands that particular game. Blessed alliance doesn't do as much, it's effectively just a "Counter target boros charm", but the instant speed and usefulness with snapcaster counts up. Helix is generally better than blessed because you can remove a creature in addition to the lifegain.
Burn fell out of top tier status for a while (before it returned more recently), so people then cut down on burn hate and Firewalkers a while back.
The WW casting cost can be a problem in jeskai (contra UW), but it will gain even more life in jeskai than UW because we play our own red spells.
Not saying everyone should play Firewalkers, but for people in burn-heavy local metas, I definitely think it's the most effective answer.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
Your early game interaction is MORE than good enough and sounds like you did alright. Any more early interaction will come at the cost of your other cards, plus I have no idea what other early interaction you could possibly add. Know that Burn and Zoo decks can have some unbeatable draws and that's just magic.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
If you're gaining 12 life off of a Timely, you were already winning that game. Alliance isn't always a 2-for-1, if they have a spell heavy hand it's like a 1.3-for-1. Snapping back an Alliance is 4 mana or more, which isn't good in the matchup.
It's a rare sideboard card because Burn is only 5% of the meta and Zoo is non-existent. The card doesn't do anything against Shadow, where as Blessed Alliance and Condemn are both more reasonable there. The best thing for you to be Snapping back in that matchup is Lightning Helix because it gets close to a 3-for-1 a good amount of the time. Ajani is far too slow, 4 mana Lightning Helix isn't good enough.
Firewalker is best against Burn, and worse than other cards in other matchups, and that's why you don't see it.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
How are your lightning helixs getting 3-1s? Also Ajani is fine at four mana because he is a toolbox sideboard card that is good in many match-ups. After sideboard you are presumably going pretty long against burn as most of your spells are good against them.
Firewalker is not even in the top 3-4 cards vs. burn for Jeskai. It's quite a bit better in straight U/W because it's much easier to hit WW in that deck without double fetch, double shock.
Any questions let me know. But this one is a delight!
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Vendilion Clique
Instants/Sorceries (21)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Electrolyze
4x Path to Exile
2x Warleader's Helix
4x Remand
4x Flooded Strand
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Spirebluff Canal
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Spell Queller
4x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Rest in Peace
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Negate
2x Molten Rain
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
I've actually run Tec edge over Ghost Quarter for a long time now. Here's the idea. People often say they run Ghost Quarter for Tron (or similar sentiment) from playing the match-up hundreds of times I found that even when I was running 4x maindeck Ghost Quarter my opp would usually still easily get Tron and beat me. And setting myself back on the land drop in the early game was not good either.
If you want to beat tron you have to run very strong hate cards in your sideboard.
Tec edge is the much better card against most decks. It's a mid to late game weapon to kill things like opposing Colonnades, and abzan/jund manlands. Occassionally you get to slow down Scapeshift with it(without giving them a basic).
I don't think there is upside for Jeskai to run Ghost Quarter and I'm curious if anyone is really having success stripping their lands in the early game (and giving basics) when they can just tec edge.
In regards to Electrolyze, I don't run it in my Jeskai Nahiri builds at the moment but that Geist list is a midrange burn deck. The 2 damage plus cycling is solid in that deck.
ATM my sb looks like this
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blood Moon
1 Blessed Alliance
Blood Moon is a new addition. I used to play crumble, but I feel like blood moon is just better with the rise of Eldrazi Tron.
Of course... it makes Elspeth in the board marginally worse. Thoughts?
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Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I've always liked Tec Edge better than GQ just like in the old school UWR lists but these days I play GQ instead. I agree about early GQ not being too backbreaking for Tron. I've turn 2 GQ Tron 2 games straight and they still got Tron online fairly early and the land disadvantage felt like it hurt me more. But it is still nice to have the option to prevent turn 3 Tron if needed.
Though, the main reason I play GQ in my utility land slot these days is because of the "mana fixing" it provides if needed. On more than 1 occasion I've GQ my own land to fix my mana in clutch situations. That reason is what ultimately sold me on playing GQ.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
I also agree that Tron is sort of a give up match-up, so I might try to run two Tectonic Edge over Ghost Quarter.
But on the other hand I've actually won two games ghost quarting myself for that extra mountain for the last points of burns. My list is also burn oriented like yours but not so much. I have more controlling elements so I have more white/blue lands and some times, not very often I get land screwed against decks that I don't want to shock myself against (I don't run warleaders helix, I run boros charm instead as you might have noticed a few pages back - regarding that list I actually dropped the last Cryptic Command the serum visions for remands like you and two extra charms).
I would really like seeing a UWR Geist build getting a top8 in some GP this year, but it seems it's not meant to be!
I am a geist fan, what can I say, I run it in every format (except legacy, cause nemesis is better :c).
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Yeah, it's a fun deck. The Warleader's Helix are pretty fun because opponents often are surprised you are running it but it's exactly what the deck wants. It's usually the card you want to draw.
Man I just did this play last night against a B/R control deck. Had him at 10 life with a snap in play and he tapped out for demigod after shredding my hand with discard. I had 4 lands in play - 2 Fountain, 1 Vents, 1 GQ and a snap and bolt in hand. He hit for 5 with the demigod and I EOT bolt him to 7, then I GQ my tapped Vents and got a Mountain, played a snap flashing back that bolt with the Mountain I got with GQ, and swung for lethal with double snaps next turn. Was hella cool!
Warleader's Helix does seem sweet. Hits Thought-Knot Seer too.
WMMT5dx: Car - RK Coupe Track - Hakone Outbound
1-2 in a 24 land deck (esp given all the cantrips) could be pretty strong.
You aren't quite a delver deck, so a few tapped lands might not kill you.
Depends on how much you value colonnade, I suppose, but I've never loved it in the more aggressive jeskai strategies.
When looking through creatures with Flash, something looked kind of interesting. Rattlechains. I wouldn't feel bad playing a 2/1 flyer end of opponent's turn 2 (in some cases I've been doing that with Snapcasters against combo), and against a lot of decks, a 2/1 flier turns into a free shock to the face each turn that also trades evenly with a good number of creatures like Goblin Guide or Eidolon of the Great Revel, or in the worst cases, chump block. They can be removed, but then that's a removal that Spell Queller wont need to get hit by later on.
Additionally, if I draw them later in the game, it would provide me 2 major benefits. Blanking targetted removal on spell queller (My major removal magnet), and giving Flash to Geist (Which I've sometimes had sit dead in my hand because a single resolved scapeshift would lose me the game, and I needed to hold mana to counter the spell and then counter/exile the counter.)
As such, I've been thinking of running a list like this.
4 Rattlechains
4 Spell Queller
3 Geist of St. Traft
1 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyse
3 Cryptic Command
1 Logic Knot
4 Serum Visions
4 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Celestial Collenade
With a sideboard of:
1 Dusk//Dawn
2 Distainful Stroke
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Spreading Seas
2 Stony Silence
Currently I'm also considering an esper version for if the people where I play get tired of playing so much combo and thus switch back to fair decks, which would make Fatal Push much better than Bolt, and Linger Souls just an amazing card in general
Mainboard
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Lightning Helix
-2 Electrolyse
-1 Logic Knot
-1 Cryptic Command
Sideboard:
-1 Izzet Staticaster
-1 Anger of the Gods
-1 Dusk//Dawn
-1 Sphinx's Revelation
with:
Main Board
+4 Fatal Push
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Countersquall
+2 Esper Charm
Side Board:
+1 Flaying Tendrils
+3 Lingering Souls
Obviously also replacing red with black in the mana base.
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Jumped on the Firer wagon after the other weekend, this is what I'm playing:
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Cast Out
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Negate
2 Mana Leak
2 Logic Knot
3 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
3 Cryptic Command
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 By Force
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Negate
1 Counterflux
1 Engineered Explosives
I agree that red is the best color to pair with Geist, however, Shizo, Death's Storehouse is the truth
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I would like to add something that is very obvious, but I only noticed the "interaction" while play testing today. Boros Charm, apart from being a great Geist life saver and finisher, also kills Liliana of the Veil the turn she enter the field (considering you don't have some counter in hand for her). I wonder about the possibility of going down a singleton Negate in order to add another conditional counter such as Mana Leak so that I am still somewhat efficient at countering Liliana before she comes into play, slightly less efficient at countering Collected Company, but allowing me to hit creatures as well, should the need arise. Specially considering Scapeshift decks and other combos where Negate is really important aren't very popular right now, apart from Storm which is a average to good match-up for Jeskai Geist anyway.
For the moment I am going to leave the list as is.
Legacy:..............................UW UW Stoneblade UW
French Commander:...UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW
Tiny Leaders:..................UW UW Geist of Saint Traft UW