Well, I just said more success, but it's still the nightmare it is against us, just not as bad as before. As jenn highlighted, it is still a terrible matchup. At least on my end it is more manageable with the Siege than before.
Yeah it has felt better I will admit I just have terrible luck sometimes against them and they run beautifully for the magic gods condemn me for defying burn.
I saw the new mono living end deck, I'm kind of left wondering if anything similar had come about for restore balance?
the as for told + tolaria west combo/synergy is strong for getting living end, plus opens you up to playing stuff less then 3cc. I experimented a little and added for bring to light to balance out the deck's route to living end. which with that approach in mind, this deck is opened up to running more efficient mana rocks. talisman of progress, any of the guild signets, mindstone, etc, which may make the ultimate difference that its been needing for a long time.
There have been a few As Fortold Restore Balance lists. The main issue I see with list like that is it's not a true Restore Balance list. They are a more control based list that uses Restore as a board wipe that sometimes helps you knock down lands. I have found it to be a sub par Restore Balance list in my opinion and a slightly worse control list. That said though I have friends that would vouch for the deck immensely. I don't agree with it but that's just my thoughts and testing behind the list. The card As Fortold it's self is an amazing card but has not made the deck better immensely for unlike Living End our Combo just nullifies the board that can lead to a win not a guarantee pressure.
To add to Timota's response, I think As Foretold is really great. It's probably the best addition we've got to the deck in a long time. It provides insane value, gets RB out of your hand, and makes it easier to sac all your lands to Greater Gargadon since you don't need mana to cast things anymore. That being said, I wouldn't want to depend on As Foretold (and the Expertises) as the only ways to cast RB. Also - and I feel like I say this a lot, but that's because it's true haha - I can't imagine anything that would make giving up instant-speed Balances worth it. Violent Outburst can do that, As Foretold can't.
Also, cheaper mana rocks may look "more efficient," but the real beauty to borderposts is bouncing lands in order to reduce your land count for more impactful balances.
Posting an updated decklist real quick before a flight. Still thinking about cutting down to one Supreme Will in favor of a Bow of Nylea. Might cut something else. We’ll see.
I was wondering, how necessary do you think the 4th Nahiri is, and would you cut one for Bow?
I'd also be really interested to know how well the two Metalwork Colossus work out for you, as I love that card more than I probably should.
I ended up buying a build of the deck (shown below and which is now shipping, woo!) and decided to go for 3 Nahiri, partially because of budget concerns.
General feedback on my build would also be awesome, and much appreciated from anyone who has the time.
I was wondering, how necessary do you think the 4th Nahiri is, and would you cut one for Bow?
I'd also be really interested to know how well the two Metalwork Colossus work out for you, as I love that card more than I probably should.
I ended up buying a build of the deck (shown below and which is now shipping, woo!) and decided to go for 3 Nahiri, partially because of budget concerns.
General feedback on my build would also be awesome, and much appreciated from anyone who has the time.
I wouldn’t aay the fourth is necessary, but I really like it. Nahiri is my atrongest wincon and she has a built in removal package and doesn’t feel bad showing up in multiples. I can understand running 3, but my preference is 4. If anything, I’ll probably remove a goblin for the bow.
The colossuses work really well with my build. Running 2 feels like the max for me. I don’t like drawing him too early and he doesn’t feel strong in multiples. I could cut to 1 safely, but I think it’s too strong with borderposts to do so.
Your list is pretty cool. The two things that stand out to me are your 2-ofs in your control and spice section and your manabase. The two-ofs drop some consitency and don’t really overlap their uses. Your manabase feels iffy with shocklands and borderposts. Is there any reason you want to runs shocks and fetches?
Also, one of these days when I have time, I wanna talk about the usefulness of Blood Moon in our builds.
I wouldn’t aay the fourth is necessary, but I really like it.
The colossuses work really well with my build. Running 2 feels like the max for me. I don’t like drawing him too early and he doesn’t feel strong in multiples. I could cut to 1 safely, but I think it’s too strong with borderposts to do so.
That seems fair. I'll definitely consider going to four after some testing. That's interesting to me that Colossus doesn't feel that strong in multiples.
The two-ofs drop some consitency and don’t really overlap their uses. Your manabase feels iffy with shocklands and borderposts. Is there any reason you want to runs shocks and fetches?
The two-ofs was my attempt at combining several of the cards I've seen mentioned in this thread into one build, and (perhaps wrongly) feeling that the Drift of Phantasms tutor mode might shore up the consistency issues of the 2-of's.
The landbase is a little bit of taking jenncertainty's lead, and a little bit of my prior experience with my friend's build of the deck showing through. When I borrowed and tried my friend's build, I often felt I was one colour or one untapped mana behind what I needed and it cost me a few games. His build though was much more budget friendly than this version.
It’s the timing on when you want colossus that makes it not as strong in multiples. You get multiples before balncing and you clog up your hand. Get it after you balance but before you can cast them and you run the risk of them recovering. Because we’re a deck that benefits from fewer cards in hand, we need to focus more on selection of cards in hand that pushes our main game forward, and all Colossus does is win the game after we establish a position. Our other wincons push our main game. Nahiri digs/selects and removes without being a hinderance to RB and Gargo sacrifices lands and creatures.
If you feel awkward with the manabase, might I recommend trying the no-post build? It’s been a long while since someone showed up in this thread with one of those. Forbidden Orchard is a strong card in that build, iirc, and you can run normal fetches and shocks. The upsides are the more versatile board, opening up a lot of slots that artifact-based cards and posts once took. The downside is Blood Moon and the risk of not wiping an opponent’s lands. Only go for this if your meta is mostly creature based and not control and Tron fests.
Also, if you find yourself one color or untapped land behind most of the time, I don’t think a Phantasm package is for you. Sorcery speed tutor for your three drops takes up a turn and may as well be that one untapped land or sets your back an extra turn if you happen to have that one untapped land.
Only go for this if your meta is mostly creature based and not control and Tron fests.
Unfortunately my local meta has a healthy crop of UW Control and Tron players.
Also, if you find yourself one color or untapped land behind most of the time, I don’t think a Phantasm package is for you.
I probably should have clarified that his build was a 5-colour build (cascading with Violent Outburst and Ardent Plea, yet splashing black for Vraska, the Unseen* as his desired, budget wincon and removal card), and not the more directed 4 colour builds I've seen on here.
That said, I'll definitely reconsider a fourth Nahiri, and another card (maybe another Blood Moon?)over the phantasms in future.
Edit: I keep forgetting they printed a new Vraska.
I was wondering, how necessary do you think the 4th Nahiri is, and would you cut one for Bow?
I'd also be really interested to know how well the two Metalwork Colossus work out for you, as I love that card more than I probably should.
I ended up buying a build of the deck (shown below and which is now shipping, woo!) and decided to go for 3 Nahiri, partially because of budget concerns.
General feedback on my build would also be awesome, and much appreciated from anyone who has the time.
I wouldn’t aay the fourth is necessary, but I really like it. Nahiri is my atrongest wincon and she has a built in removal package and doesn’t feel bad showing up in multiples. I can understand running 3, but my preference is 4. If anything, I’ll probably remove a goblin for the bow.
The colossuses work really well with my build. Running 2 feels like the max for me. I don’t like drawing him too early and he doesn’t feel strong in multiples. I could cut to 1 safely, but I think it’s too strong with borderposts to do so.
Your list is pretty cool. The two things that stand out to me are your 2-ofs in your control and spice section and your manabase. The two-ofs drop some consitency and don’t really overlap their uses. Your manabase feels iffy with shocklands and borderposts. Is there any reason you want to runs shocks and fetches?
Also, one of these days when I have time, I wanna talk about the usefulness of Blood Moon in our builds.
I'm very leery of your mana base. The UU need to transmute Drift of Phantasms is hard to do sometimes. You need so many colors. I really do like the idea, but I think it will hurt in a lot of situations where you work hard to balance out your mana colors and then don't have the double or you get the double and then don't have another color you need for the next card you draw.
First off I know I'm a bit late to the conversation but I do like having shocks as possibilities in my mana base. Though ever since going to three I have been having some minor issues with them and borderposts, so I might be going back to two. Also I seem to be having some issues with the two offs in my control lists but I havnt had to control issues. Since you guys keep posting with the deck formatting I was wondering how to sort my deck list like you have above. It may help convay my thoughts on the deck for you guys to help.
First off I know I'm a bit late to the conversation but I do like having shocks as possibilities in my mana base. Though ever since going to three I have been having some minor issues with them and borderposts, so I might be going back to two. Also I seem to be having some issues with the two offs in my control lists but I havnt had to control issues. Since you guys keep posting with the deck formatting I was wondering how to sort my deck list like you have above. It may help convay my thoughts on the deck for you guys to help.
I'm with you Timota. I like having shocks and fetches just for a little bit more color consistency. My basic count has been slowly increasing since my first build though, so it's possible I'll end up with 0 shocks at some point.
As for formatting your deck, you just use (deck)(/deck) tags (except use square brackets instead of parenthesis).
Also, one of these days when I have time, I wanna talk about the usefulness of Blood Moon in our builds.
I'd like to get into this convo at some point, too. Personally, I'm a very big fan of Blood Moon. It really helps the prison side of our plan (because, at the core, I think RB could be considered a prison deck). We run so many basics so it barely affects us, Blood Moon is just an "easy win" card against enough decks in the current meta, and wiping all of our opponent's lands while there is a Moon in play is very good. It means the opponent can't use fetch lands to find the lands they need to rebuild.
Also, one of these days when I have time, I wanna talk about the usefulness of Blood Moon in our builds.
I'd like to get into this convo at some point, too. Personally, I'm a very big fan of Blood Moon. It really helps the prison side of our plan (because, at the core, I think RB could be considered a prison deck). We run so many basics so it barely affects us, Blood Moon is just an "easy win" card against enough decks in the current meta, and wiping all of our opponent's lands while there is a Moon in play is very good. It means the opponent can't use fetch lands to find the lands they need to rebuild.
Then, let's get it started, shall we? IMO, there's a reason why the Blue Moon deck is still around wrecking havoc in Modern: it's because of Blood Moon and its resistance to it, to the point where it is the deck's main win condition. Modern is a format of crazy manabases (BGX, Tron variants, Living End, Dredge to name a few), so having access to Blood Moon is an easy win. As jenn said, at its core, Restore Balance is a prison deck. We aim to lock the board to set up a significant RB, draining resources from our opponent. Blood Moon is the earliest lock piece we have (aside from Ghostly Prison). Because of these lock pieces, our opponent commits more on the board, thus fueling a more effective RB. Though admittedly, I demoted it to the sideboard for now, I still board it in most of the time, and wins me games outright.
So it is finally time for me to explain my thoughts behind the list I run and get your guys thoughts. First off this list is how I roughly classify my deck. Some of the pieces may be under control but might also filter or be a threat so take that into account please.
Now that I've finally expressed my thoughts on the list I have a couple of concerns and comments. First off I don't know if the control aspect is off with count or numbers. Second I know that some have suggested Beast Within instead of Detention Sphere in my testing in the meta D-Sphere has been better but the vote is still out on that. On a final note Transmuting for a Gideon is a new favorite move of mine. Thanks guys for taking a peak, feel free to ask any questions or offer any advice.
I like the list. It's actually quite different than mine. A lot of the same cards, just in different numbers/main-side distribution. I'm surprised to see zero Blood Moons in the 75. I agree 100% with vetkin that the card is just too good to pass up. Is Moon weak in your meta? Did you test the moon and not like it?
I like Ghostly Prison in the main board. I think that's definitely something I could see myself testing down the road (I don't think I'd ever go without 2 Prisons somewhere in the 75).
I see you are still running Thassa. Have you found her to be too slow sometimes? That's why I ended up cutting her.
When do you board in Odds//Ends. I would imagine against decks playing counters, but in that case wouldn't you just rather have a third Ricochet Trap?
On a final note Transmuting for a Gideon is a new favorite move of mine. Thanks guys for taking a peak, feel free to ask any questions or offer any advice.
Hey Timota, how difficult have you found paying the transmute cost to be? That was a concern that epoa raised about my list, and I used your idea on that because I think it's cool.
Edit: Just thought of another question; when do you find yourself transmuting during the course of a game?
Uhmm Jenn funnily enough i have never tried moon for none of my local stores had one and I've been to lazy to order one offline. I wanna test moon but havn't found a good option to remove it for if I should play it i think that it should be as a two of. Though I am concerned about running for I do require a lot of double Blue and White so I use the Hallowed Fountain a lot if my borderpost dislike me that day. Secondly I have never had an issue with Thassa for my build is less balance into a win as much as a prison with grind and most games unless I feel the need to Restore I almost try to windmill slam her for the value she creates is wonderful. Also I can not express how many games the unblockable ability has won me games. As for Odds//Ends I have fallen in love with this card and it's fairly versatile it comes in the same matchups as Ricochet Trap and then some more. My main reason to have it in the deck is for extra help agaisnt Cryptic Command for Trap helps stop the counters but I dislike having my things bounced or tapped. Also it has stolen such fun cards like mill spells or even Bring To Lights for game wins. As for Zaptross I run Hallowed Fountain which since putting it in my deck has been wonderful for color fixing, as for when I transmute it depends on what I facing most of the time. If its a deck that doesn't pressure me I may restore turn three to start a lock or more often than not it's being done after the first Restore to help further my game plan or grab a needed lock piece as they are recovering.
That's fair. Card accessibility can be a real issue. I'd highly recommend testing it if you do find copies. Two is probably enough, especially since you can transmute for it. As far as finding room for it, do you need 5 walkers? You could probably cut one Gideon. I don't know about the other cut, though.
RGForest BelcherRG
WUBRGBring to BalanceWUBRG
Commander Decks:
WUBSharuum the HegemonWUB
WUBRGScion of the Ur-DragonWUBRG
UBDralnu, Lich LordUB
UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
the as for told + tolaria west combo/synergy is strong for getting living end, plus opens you up to playing stuff less then 3cc. I experimented a little and added for bring to light to balance out the deck's route to living end. which with that approach in mind, this deck is opened up to running more efficient mana rocks. talisman of progress, any of the guild signets, mindstone, etc, which may make the ultimate difference that its been needing for a long time.
Also, cheaper mana rocks may look "more efficient," but the real beauty to borderposts is bouncing lands in order to reduce your land count for more impactful balances.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
3 Restore Balance
Planeswalker
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Instant
2 Beast Within
2 Supreme Will
4 Violent Outburst
Enchantment
4 Ardent Plea
2 As Foretold
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Wildfield Borderpost
Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Metalwork Colossus
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
I was wondering, how necessary do you think the 4th Nahiri is, and would you cut one for Bow?
I'd also be really interested to know how well the two Metalwork Colossus work out for you, as I love that card more than I probably should.
I ended up buying a build of the deck (shown below and which is now shipping, woo!) and decided to go for 3 Nahiri, partially because of budget concerns.
General feedback on my build would also be awesome, and much appreciated from anyone who has the time.
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Greater Gargadon
Control & Spice
2 Drift of Phantasms
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Blood Moon
2 Supreme Will
2 Beast Within
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Monastery Siege
Balance Package
4 Ardent Plea
4 Violent Outburst
2 As Foretold
3 Restore Balance
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
Land
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oketra's Last Mercy
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Ricochet Trap
2 Wear // Tear
1 Detention Sphere
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Anger of the Gods
I wouldn’t aay the fourth is necessary, but I really like it. Nahiri is my atrongest wincon and she has a built in removal package and doesn’t feel bad showing up in multiples. I can understand running 3, but my preference is 4. If anything, I’ll probably remove a goblin for the bow.
The colossuses work really well with my build. Running 2 feels like the max for me. I don’t like drawing him too early and he doesn’t feel strong in multiples. I could cut to 1 safely, but I think it’s too strong with borderposts to do so.
Your list is pretty cool. The two things that stand out to me are your 2-ofs in your control and spice section and your manabase. The two-ofs drop some consitency and don’t really overlap their uses. Your manabase feels iffy with shocklands and borderposts. Is there any reason you want to runs shocks and fetches?
Also, one of these days when I have time, I wanna talk about the usefulness of Blood Moon in our builds.
That seems fair. I'll definitely consider going to four after some testing. That's interesting to me that Colossus doesn't feel that strong in multiples.
The two-ofs was my attempt at combining several of the cards I've seen mentioned in this thread into one build, and (perhaps wrongly) feeling that the Drift of Phantasms tutor mode might shore up the consistency issues of the 2-of's.
The landbase is a little bit of taking jenncertainty's lead, and a little bit of my prior experience with my friend's build of the deck showing through. When I borrowed and tried my friend's build, I often felt I was one colour or one untapped mana behind what I needed and it cost me a few games. His build though was much more budget friendly than this version.
If you feel awkward with the manabase, might I recommend trying the no-post build? It’s been a long while since someone showed up in this thread with one of those. Forbidden Orchard is a strong card in that build, iirc, and you can run normal fetches and shocks. The upsides are the more versatile board, opening up a lot of slots that artifact-based cards and posts once took. The downside is Blood Moon and the risk of not wiping an opponent’s lands. Only go for this if your meta is mostly creature based and not control and Tron fests.
Also, if you find yourself one color or untapped land behind most of the time, I don’t think a Phantasm package is for you. Sorcery speed tutor for your three drops takes up a turn and may as well be that one untapped land or sets your back an extra turn if you happen to have that one untapped land.
Unfortunately my local meta has a healthy crop of UW Control and Tron players.
I probably should have clarified that his build was a 5-colour build (cascading with Violent Outburst and Ardent Plea, yet splashing black for Vraska, the Unseen* as his desired, budget wincon and removal card), and not the more directed 4 colour builds I've seen on here.
That said, I'll definitely reconsider a fourth Nahiri, and another card (maybe another Blood Moon?)over the phantasms in future.
Edit: I keep forgetting they printed a new Vraska.
I'm very leery of your mana base. The UU need to transmute Drift of Phantasms is hard to do sometimes. You need so many colors. I really do like the idea, but I think it will hurt in a lot of situations where you work hard to balance out your mana colors and then don't have the double or you get the double and then don't have another color you need for the next card you draw.
I do like Monastery Siege.
I'm with you Timota. I like having shocks and fetches just for a little bit more color consistency. My basic count has been slowly increasing since my first build though, so it's possible I'll end up with 0 shocks at some point.
As for formatting your deck, you just use (deck)(/deck) tags (except use square brackets instead of parenthesis).
I'd like to get into this convo at some point, too. Personally, I'm a very big fan of Blood Moon. It really helps the prison side of our plan (because, at the core, I think RB could be considered a prison deck). We run so many basics so it barely affects us, Blood Moon is just an "easy win" card against enough decks in the current meta, and wiping all of our opponent's lands while there is a Moon in play is very good. It means the opponent can't use fetch lands to find the lands they need to rebuild.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Then, let's get it started, shall we? IMO, there's a reason why the Blue Moon deck is still around wrecking havoc in Modern: it's because of Blood Moon and its resistance to it, to the point where it is the deck's main win condition. Modern is a format of crazy manabases (BGX, Tron variants, Living End, Dredge to name a few), so having access to Blood Moon is an easy win. As jenn said, at its core, Restore Balance is a prison deck. We aim to lock the board to set up a significant RB, draining resources from our opponent. Blood Moon is the earliest lock piece we have (aside from Ghostly Prison). Because of these lock pieces, our opponent commits more on the board, thus fueling a more effective RB. Though admittedly, I demoted it to the sideboard for now, I still board it in most of the time, and wins me games outright.
RGForest BelcherRG
WUBRGBring to BalanceWUBRG
Commander Decks:
WUBSharuum the HegemonWUB
WUBRGScion of the Ur-DragonWUBRG
UBDralnu, Lich LordUB
UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Monastery Siege
2 Detention Sphere
Threats:
4 Greater Gargadon
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Combo:
4 Restore Balance
4 Ardent Plea
4 Violent Outburst
2 As Foretold
Filtering:
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Supreme Will
2 Drift of Phantasms
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Firewild Borderpost
3 Wildfield Borderpost
Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wear//Tear
2 Dismember
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Odds//Ends
2 Ricochet Trap
1 Monastery Seige
2 Oketra's Last Mercy
Now that I've finally expressed my thoughts on the list I have a couple of concerns and comments. First off I don't know if the control aspect is off with count or numbers. Second I know that some have suggested Beast Within instead of Detention Sphere in my testing in the meta D-Sphere has been better but the vote is still out on that. On a final note Transmuting for a Gideon is a new favorite move of mine. Thanks guys for taking a peak, feel free to ask any questions or offer any advice.
I like Ghostly Prison in the main board. I think that's definitely something I could see myself testing down the road (I don't think I'd ever go without 2 Prisons somewhere in the 75).
I see you are still running Thassa. Have you found her to be too slow sometimes? That's why I ended up cutting her.
When do you board in Odds//Ends. I would imagine against decks playing counters, but in that case wouldn't you just rather have a third Ricochet Trap?
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
Hey Timota, how difficult have you found paying the transmute cost to be? That was a concern that epoa raised about my list, and I used your idea on that because I think it's cool.
Edit: Just thought of another question; when do you find yourself transmuting during the course of a game?
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG