Thought of Voltaic Key when I was first building the deck, but do we really need 9-12 shredders/Bells? 1-4 is enough to keep an opponent drawing lands, 5-8 solidifies the lock so you can speed up the milling. 9-12 would be overkill, and what would you take out for that?
R.I.P. is the best to keep cards from coming back, in fact it is just too good for our cause since it keeps our deck from recurring which is too practical to void. You know when you got to get a job and they tell you that you are overqualified? Thats the case with this card.
And Yes, I am tweaking my list to fit just 2 Tezz, might try 1 Tezz, 1 Jace to see which one performs better.
EDIT: Should we find a way to blink Trinket Mage to keep on amassing combo parts? How could it be done without adding a card that turns dead without trinket on field? is it possible?
Venser?
Good call on the Rest In Peace. One of the biggest things I like about the deck is the recursion power it has.
I like the idea of Venser more than Tezz or Jace. He's more lock whereas the others are more, well, win-more. If you ever manage to pop Venser, you can start spamming your recursions and eventually wipe their board off the game.
Only testing will show which is the best for the deck...
EDIT: Looking at Ajani, all his abilities are perfect for this deck, maybe 1 Ajani, 1 Venser is the best combination. Venser works on the lock, Ajani wipes their filed. Now how to add a R source...
Hmmm, Im not running the orchard, but it offers that R source while boosting Porphyry Nodes... Perfect!
Putting the Azorius Chancery in since the deck has no 2-drops. Figured running 18 lands, the "extra" land would help with some consistency. Later on it can go out for some shenanigans with Halimar Depths. 4-of seems too many. I'm pretty rough with these kinds of things lol. Suggestions are welcome!
Exept for the land base and 2-3 cards, we have similar lists. I have never been a fan of tapped entering lands.
I'm still not convinced on Forbidden Orchard, is anyone getting good results with it?
I'm also running Sunbeam Spellbomb on the SB for aggro decks, RDW and the likes. I'm only running 3 bullets and sunbeam is only good in certain situations. Engineered Explosives is just too good with Academy Ruins, Pithing Needle shuts down Birthing Pod and a lot of other stuff, Grafdigger's Cage hoses graveyard/library recursion and it also hoses U control's favorite tool, Snapcaster's Mage (Got a U/B/W Geist control to quit when he used Kozilek on the cage and allowed me to assemble the Lantern combo, took one Geist out with Poryphyry and the other was shaved from the top with Codex, hehe).
I love the fact that I can set Engineered at 0 or 2 without harming myself, and could even set it at 3 and sacrifice the Trinket Mages. The forbidden number is 1, since my deck is almost all 1cmc cards.
Pic: How does that scenario look? Engineered had his last hope (Army of the Damned) locked on the graveyard.
I'm keeping Tezz and only as a 1-off, he just wins the turn after he drops, the other planewalkers only help in the control department while Tezz ends games.
EDIT: I'd love see a mirror match with this thing, THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS!
EDIT 2: Tezz's -1 is also better to aid in the control than the other walkers, it can spend its 4 counters fetching me the whole set of shredders/bells. But thats dumb when I can win next turn with the ultimate.
EDIT 3: Added a deck stats pic, for comparisons.
EDIT 4: Just adding pic 3, vs R/U splinter Twin deck, I shaved off Serum and Gitaxian to dig for an answer and found an Oust, Porphyry would take out Deciever, Oust for the Vendilion, Codex his two top creatures and I would have taken 2 more damage before porphyry would take out his last creature for the lock.
EDIT 5: Got screwed by a deck that centered on playing creatures like Aven Mindsensor/Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter. It wasn't that combo that screwed me since I can run on 1 or 2 lands with all the 1cmcs.What screwed me is that it seems Horizon Canopy lets my opponent draw a card before the shredders resolve. Horizon Canopy is now on the to-shred-black list...
I was playing a game against a friend on cockatrice and my last hope to get out of the lock was shuffling with fetchlands that he allowed me to draw. Something you might want to keep in mind.
Only really a threat if you're shaving off threat after threat and tapped out.
Something random that crossed my mind, call it a barber deck, "Trim a bit off the top"
I was playing a game against a friend on cockatrice and my last hope to get out of the lock was shuffling with fetchlands that he allowed me to draw. Something you might want to keep in mind.
Only really a threat if you're shaving off threat after threat and tapped out.
Something random that crossed my mind, call it a barber deck, "Trim a bit off the top"
Ah yes I've noticed people shuffling with the fetchlands struggling to get out of the lock, I always keep an eye out for that. Let them act, use the shredders/bells at their EOT unless they are trying to get something to their hand, that way if a threat is still on top you will untap on your upkeep for more "shavings". I try not to tap out unless they got several threats in a row, in fact Im starting to allow them to draw stuff other than lands at times when I know I can handle the card they will draw. Say if they will draw a creature and I got a Path in hand, or removal and let them take out my Trinkets, et cetera...
Someone used a deck with just sweepers and Ajani Vengeant, Elspeth Errant and Gideon. I got a really bad draw and got the combo late, he dropped the planewalkers one after the other and I only had one Needle. Could have dispatched Gideon as it turned into 6/6 and had Vengeant needled, but I couldn't control Elspeth and I had let him draw a few DoJ so I wasn't going to be able to kill it with Trinkets so I conceded.
SBed 2 more needles and the 3 spellbombs to stay ahead if Gideon or Elspeth's tokens attacked. I had a perfect hand to lock him fast on game 2 and Gitaxian revealed he only had Gideon on hand, but I missplayed this one out of panic, Played Lantern on turn 1, saw a Blood Moon on his top and sacced the lantern, that was the missplay, my only color spells are to kill creatures which he had none so Blood Moon wouldn't have affected me much. He shuffled for the lantern and I got to see his top deck since he had the option still on, Chalice of the Void, played it at 1, gg.
We should keep Chalice in mind to refine the SB since it shuts us down on the spot. Maybe some Runed Halos which could also help against some other decks.
Right now Im just testing to find weak spots to refine the SB.
Anyways, thats about it for now, Im dead tired (didnt sleep last night) I'll get back tomorrow.
BTW love the reaction on opponents: Some think its a horrible deck, some think its boring, others think its a great idea and then there are the "WTF does your deck do? types, hilarious.
I've tested the deck for some games now, and I've found this deck is extremely weak to opening hands. Against Scapeshift, I milled one Scapeshift, but my opponent had a Scapeshift in her opening hand and comboed off after I could no longer keep her off her 7th land.
Just a thought; if the Tron matchup is really bad, why not add Brittle Effigy? You'll have plenty of mana to use it later in the game, and it's fetchable with Trinket Mage. Since it's instant speed, it can also deal with manlands.
I've tested the deck for some games now, and I've found this deck is extremely weak to opening hands. Against Scapeshift, I milled one Scapeshift, but my opponent had a Scapeshift in her opening hand and comboed off after I could no longer keep her off her 7th land.
Thats odd, maybe it has to do with the way you were opening your game or you had really bad draws because I almost never mull, the other guys seem to be doing good and aren't mentioning anything about weak opening hands. My opening hands contain either a combo piece and a trinket with some removal/draw, both pieces with some removal/draw or removal/draw and trinket. Those hands are all good. The perfect way to start is with a Codex and a Mishra's Bauble, that way you can look at their top from turn 1 and start "shaving". My first turn play is always a piece of the combo to prevent my opponent from thoughtsizing just in case. A lot of the times you get a Porphyry and path/oust, don't use the path/oust, let them drop 1 or 2 creatures depending on the type of deck, and then drop porphyry while conserving the path/oust for later. It would be dumb to use the removal on the first 2 turns instead of concentrating on the combo because they'll draw as many threats as you take out until you get the combo online, so I'd say just concentrate on the combo.
You tested my version?
At first it was like a puzzle trying to figure out how to play it well, then it all started clicking and now I know exactly how to play opening hands. "Some games" might not be enough to fully get a grip on this deck. Are you taking full advantage of the combo? Don't just take out their threats, you can dig through your deck like a maniac. And did you get to test the recursion with Academy?
My priority is getting the combo online even if I let my opponent attack for a 1-3 turns with 1/1s and 2/2s. Once you get the combo you finish cleaning the field with Porphyry if you have it and tighten the lock. Then you just manage to takeout whatever they got left in hand with path/oust and if you have none, dig through your deck with the combo.
If you do test some more let me know how it goes.
On the other subject, yes, I did think of Surgical Extraction, even thought about splashing B for thoughtsize but I would have had to play that instead of a piece combo on turn 1. Though surgical can be paid with life, will test in the SB.
Got some mainboard ideas?
Quote from TheTennesseeFireman »
Just a thought; if the Tron matchup is really bad, why not add Brittle Effigy? You'll have plenty of mana to use it later in the game, and it's fetchable with Trinket Mage. Since it's instant speed, it can also deal with manlands.
I will SB that for a while and see how it does. Thanks.
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EDIT: Heres a good example of how complicated this deck is:
Pic: I had both combo pieces and Mishra's Bauble on opening hand. Played a land and Mishra to look at their top and decide if I should drop Lantern first or Ghoulcaller's Bell. He revealed a land, I dropped the Lantern and let him draw the land to reveal a Chalice of the Void as his next draw. Second turn I play Gitaxian and he only had lands, DoJ, Ensaring and Ghostly Prison. Perfect! I dropped two bells, shaved off his Chalice and thought "Ha! You're locked". Then... I let him draw both Mind Stones (Added to black list of cards to shave) in turns 3-4 while I played two more lanterns. However, my biggest error, I used two of my three lanterns to shuffle my library since I had another one and he had nothing to destroy it. Then it turned into a stand off. Ajani Vengeant showed up on his top, if he tried to draw it with mind stone I'd respond with Bell and vice versa, if I tried to shave it he'd respond with the stone. Had no option, used the Bell and he let it go only to show Chalice as his next draw, he used the stone, I responded with the Bell, a land showed on his top, he used mind stone and i let him draw it, another Ajani, had no option, saced my last lantern since he used the stones at my EOT, he shuffled still showing his top... Elspeth was his draw and I had 3 lanterns in the grave and 2 trinkets without a third land (I used the first two lanterns to stupidly shuffle away 2 lands since I had the lock already). Had a Trinket in hand and knew my next draw was another Trinket. I thought I would draw the second and hoped to draw a land next turn to fetch my last lantern and then a needle for Elspeth so I had hope. He dropped Elspeth, ok. I didn't draw a land, he dropped Ajani Vengeant, GG.
Two mistakes (Using my two lanterns unnecesarily and letting him draw Mind Stone) and I lost a game I had locked from turn 1 basically.
Tough luck in that match. This has to be one of the most complicated decks in terms of decision trees and definitely the most infuriating deck I've ever seen in Modern. I love it. It seems that you have to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of how to prioritize what cards to lop off the top of each deck.
I feel like Engineered Explosives is also a must as a 2-of in this deck. A recurring way to destroy whatever graveyard hate your opponent throws your way, while simultaneously hosing tokens and giving you a way to deal with Planeswalkers? Yes please. It always helps to have a way to deal with the few cards that slip through your fingers, and it's one of the best answers to the token matchup, which seems like it could be problematic.
One last idea: Scourglass. Mindslaver may be a harder lock, but this is faster and buys you all the time you need against everyone but Affinity.
Dispatch, trust me, this is the removal you want. If you don't have it turned on, you aren't building the deck right (or you just got a terrible draw, which you should mulligan anyways).
Mox Opal. Turn 1 Locks, and Turn 2 Trinket Mage's are insane. again, Metalcraft is almost guaranteed by turn 2.
The mirror match is defined by Pithing Needles and EE.
EDIT:
I've been calling the deck The Trinket Factory...but Barber Shop...so sweet....I'm pretty sure I'm playing this in the IQ, anyone else planning on it?
I'm actually going to slowly acquire the cards for this
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Thats odd, maybe it has to do with the way you were opening your game or you had really bad draws because I almost never mull, the other guys seem to be doing good and aren't mentioning anything about weak opening hands. My opening hands contain either a combo piece and a trinket with some removal/draw, both pieces with some removal/draw or removal/draw and trinket. Those hands are all good. The perfect way to start is with a Codex and a Mishra's Bauble, that way you can look at their top from turn 1 and start "shaving". My first turn play is always a piece of the combo to prevent my opponent from thoughtsizing just in case. A lot of the times you get a Porphyry and path/oust, don't use the path/oust, let them drop 1 or 2 creatures depending on the type of deck, and then drop porphyry while conserving the path/oust for later. It would be dumb to use the removal on the first 2 turns instead of concentrating on the combo because they'll draw as many threats as you take out until you get the combo online, so I'd say just concentrate on the combo.
You tested my version?
At first it was like a puzzle trying to figure out how to play it well, then it all started clicking and now I know exactly how to play opening hands. "Some games" might not be enough to fully get a grip on this deck. Are you taking full advantage of the combo? Don't just take out their threats, you can dig through your deck like a maniac. And did you get to test the recursion with Academy?
My priority is getting the combo online even if I let my opponent attack for a 1-3 turns with 1/1s and 2/2s. Once you get the combo you finish cleaning the field with Porphyry if you have it and tighten the lock. Then you just manage to takeout whatever they got left in hand with path/oust and if you have none, dig through your deck with the combo.
If you do test some more let me know how it goes.
On the other subject, yes, I did think of Surgical Extraction, even thought about splashing B for thoughtsize but I would have had to play that instead of a piece combo on turn 1. Though surgical can be paid with life, will test in the SB.
Got some mainboard ideas?
I will SB that for a while and see how it does. Thanks.
I did assemble the topdeck lock successfully against Scapeshift, but since I'm testing against myself on Cockatrice, I realized too late that Scapeshift kept a decent opening hand that already had its namesake card in it. I tried keeping the deck off its 7th land (and Sakura-Tribe Elder, etc.) after I realized that, but then I saw Search for Tomorrow cast from hand and was hooped.
(And yeah, never Path to Exile any of Scapeshift's creatures but Sakura-Tribe Elder. Even then, only PtE him if he's blocking you from winning this turn.)
Constructing the sideboard is painstaking. I figure Affinity will be a problem, as it dumps its hand in the first 2 turns and often outpaces spot removal (and Cranial Plating makes the deck dodge Porphyry Nodes like a bamf), so I'd recommend at least one Hurkyl's Recall there to buy time and two Disenchants to muck with Affinity's big cards, UR Storm, Exarch Twin, and Stony Silence.
I'm prone to moving a Needle maindeck to shut up Birthing Pod (unless you have two Shredders out, you basically can't prevent Pod from topdecking creatures when they make up half the deck--luckily, 4-10 of their guys have no offensive presence, but then you need to mill Gavony Township), Eye of Ugin, planeswalkers, and more.
I'm having problems against Jund, as it can generally disrupt the lock long enough to win, but as long as I can remove the early Delver, the RUG Delver game is mine. It's pretty funny forcing their late-game hand to be lands, removal (I'm still prone to milling Vedalken Shackles, and never let them keep the 4th Bolt/burn spell if you want to stabilize), and Spell Snares.
Oh wow this is starting to get serious, I originally thought no one would pay attention thinking it was a silly deck.
But where does the seriousness ends? I surely wouldn't take this to a live tournament. I can already see opponents jumping over the table to choke me out of frustration... hahaha just kidding, lets get going:
I'm on some kind of tablet so no tags (I'll fix when I get to my laptop).
Quote from TheTenesseeFireman »
Tough luck in that match. This has to be one of the most complicated decks in terms of decision trees and definitely the most infuriating deck I've ever seen in Modern. I love it. It seems that you have to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of how to prioritize what cards to lop off the top of each deck.
I feel like Engineered Explosives is also a must as a 2-of in this deck. A recurring way to destroy whatever graveyard hate your opponent throws your way, while simultaneously hosing tokens and giving you a way to deal with Planeswalkers? Yes please. It always helps to have a way to deal with the few cards that slip through your fingers, and it's one of the best answers to the token matchup, which seems like it could be problematic.
One last idea: Scourglass. Mindslaver may be a harder lock, but this is faster and buys you all the time you need against everyone but Affinity.
Yes, you have so many options open, its nuts, its why some opponents thought is was a boring deck, cause at first I took really long turn figuring out what to do first, what second? what not to do? which top to shave? what to recur? what to kill with spot? what to let porpyhry kill? et cetera...
And yes I can imagine the frustration of drawing a land, playing a land and passing the turn, turn after turn. Its why I opened the OP with "Would it be too evil to land flood your opponent every turn?" Glad you too like the deck.
Also yes, you need to know almost every card in current top decks and even in the entire modern pool to play this extremely efficiently. I had been absent from MTG for quite some time (since kamigawa), and to top it off I just joined Modern a few weeks ago to work on a Puresteel deck when I suddenly had this idea. Thats why I'm making so many mistakes and updating my mental black list of cards to shave slowly based on game tests (expirience).
EE with Academy is as frustrating as the combo itself, in the pic I posted vs the Mono-B deck with Army of the Damned I recured EE like 4 times, in anticipation to their moves. When I shaved his AotD I thought "Fu.. it has flashack" then I activated my at 2 EE, untapped on my upkeep, recured with Academy, Draw EE again, played it at 0 and AotD was flashbackless.
Mindslaver sounds good, but it takes an eternity to reach the lock (6 to play, 4 to activate, 3 to recur = 13 (Pedee pablo)). Scourglass I was so tempted to use, but the 5 cmc scares me a lot, but I guess 1 or 2 maindeck could allow me to let the opponent draw some creatures without ETB or Haste to ease the load on the combo.
Has anyone tested against affinity? I only had one game vs, and I won by letting porphyry do its thing while Pathing the Cranial equipped creature in response to the attack. More tests should be done, it is the deck that I thought would be the major problem.
Quote from pyro314 »
Guys:
Dispatch, trust me, this is the removal you want. If you don't have it turned on, you aren't building the deck right (or you just got a terrible draw, which you should mulligan anyways).
Mox Opal. Turn 1 Locks, and Turn 2 Trinket Mage's are insane. again, Metalcraft is almost guaranteed by turn 2.
The mirror match is defined by Pithing Needles and EE.
EDIT:
I've been calling the deck The Trinket Factory...but Barber Shop...so sweet....I'm pretty sure I'm playing this in the IQ, anyone else planning on it?
I'm actually going to slowly acquire the cards for this
I will definitely test them through if you are so confident.
So we officially dubbed it "Trinket's Barber Shop"? hahahaha...
The price range on this is around $150 (my version with the fetchlands), it is an extremely good deck considering the budget. Let us know when you start testing it live if your opponents let you live after : )
Quote from Lectrys »
I did assemble the topdeck lock successfully against Scapeshift, but since I'm testing against myself on Cockatrice, I realized too late that Scapeshift kept a decent opening hand that already had its namesake card in it. I tried keeping the deck off its 7th land (and Sakura-Tribe Elder, etc.) after I realized that, but then I saw Search for Tomorrow cast from hand and was hooped.
(And yeah, never Path to Exile any of Scapeshift's creatures but Sakura-Tribe Elder. Even then, only PtE him if he's blocking you from winning this turn.)
Sometimes, I dream about adding Counterbalance to the deck and more 2-cmc cards to fix the opposing opening hand problem (yes, I checked with the rulings people, and you can reveal cards that are currently being revealed), but then I realize that the Counter"Top" lock is a 3-card combo I'll never assemble on time against the problematic decks (e.g. RDW).
Constructing the sideboard is painstaking. I figure Affinity will be a problem, as it dumps its hand in the first 2 turns and often outpaces spot removal (and Cranial Plating makes the deck dodge Porphyry Nodes like a bamf), so I'd recommend at least one Hurkyl's Recall there to buy time and two Disenchants to muck with Affinity's big cards, UR Storm, Exarch Twin, and Stony Silence.
I'm prone to moving a Needle maindeck to shut up Birthing Pod (unless you have two Shredders out, you basically can't prevent Pod from topdecking creatures when they make up half the deck--luckily, 4-10 of their guys have no offensive presence, but then you need to mill Gavony Township), Eye of Ugin, planeswalkers, and more.
I'm having problems against Jund, as it can generally disrupt the lock long enough to win, but as long as I can remove the early Delver, the RUG Delver game is mine. It's pretty funny forcing their late-game hand to be lands, removal (I'm still prone to milling Vedalken Shackles, and never let them keep the 4th Bolt/burn spell if you want to stabilize), and Spell Snares.
Seems we converted Lectrys at last... hehe j/k...
On your list:
IMO Thirst for Knowledge is too highly costed for my liking in the deck, 3cmc and discard an artifact? why not play Thoughtcast instead? You will surely spend less than 3 mana on it and still keep 2 cards without discarding. Is thirst working for you or does it feel a burden at times?
Oust is good at what it does, but some times you just wish it was an instant, dispatch is better at what it does, but it needs metalcraft, their both good, but if we follow pyro's mox/dispatch suggestion we could cut Oust maybe.
I wouldn't take Pithing Needle out of the MD, it just answers a lot of stuff, and we don't have much against walkers.
Vitu-Ghazi is an interesting choice, are you having problems with the G splah? as in not having U for the draws or something?
Speaking about lands, I was going through the entire land pool for modern and saw, Magosi the Waterveil... Yeah Im nuts, but hear me out... It enters tapped which I never like but we can use this at a time when the opponent has a land on top and we got the combo untapped, let them take a "controlled" extra turn to charge Magosi. The use for that? To have a loaded Magosi for an extra turn in case of emergency or when you tap out or make a mistake. It has its uses and you can even keep charging Magosi when the situation allows it. At least in my list it also allows me to drop Tezz and immediately take the extra turn for the kill. I'll do some testing, it intrigues me, its one of those "you have to be crazy" lands like the Orchard.
How do you path a Sakura Tribe Elder though? Can't they just sac in response?
The first question I got asked when I started testing was "Are you using Counterbalance"? But I have the same logic as you, it would be a dream to incoporate counters, but it would slow the combo and the counters would end up essentially countering our own game plan instead of threats.
Anyways, imagine how rusty I am at MTG that I was running 4 Return to Dust in SB instead of Disenchant. The card has even been used on me and I didn't pay attention to it. Thanks.
Yes the only B.Pod thats beaten me so far (only played like 6-7 games vs pod) was the first one, when I wasn't playing the needle. It just shuts down their game plan, and having it MB is kind of unexpected to them and to some other decks that are centered around one card.
Personally I still havent tested against a Jund deck, but Im surprised at how this deck plays against U counter. It actually has a few advantages over it, Spell Snare is a dead card to them, we can recur countered pieces, we can hose Snapcaster Mage (My list with Grafdigger's Cage), we got the needle in case Tamiyo shows up, got great removal for Delver, Porphyry takes out Traft, et cetera.
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Well gtg, its not my tablet and this is now kind of a TL/DR post haha...
Later guys, and pardon the redundancy, but thanks for believing in the idea.
I'm loving this deck, ill be playing my variant in the iq and post the list and how i went. I totally agree with what Pyro134 said about mox opal and dispatch, they're amazing in this deck, I believe its a must have, you can really use the extra mana, and also codex's second ability is amazing.
It's not quite scry. Since you can't get rid of the things you don't want.
I think serum Is better. Since you can set up your draw with the barber combo.
Sage doesn't cantrip
It wasn't the part about ditching what you don't want that put me off this card, it was the no cantrip part, hurts a lot.
But, I'm trying something that is giving better results than Serum so far, sleight of hand, Serum Draws before scrying, this lets you draw either of the first two, helps in more situations I think.
I'm loving this deck, ill be playing my variant in the iq and post the list and how i went. I totally agree with what Pyro134 said about mox opal and dispatch, they're amazing in this deck, I believe its a must have, you can really use the extra mana, and also codex's second ability is amazing.
Yeah it has like a kind of natural synergy into it, seems every card somehow helps the rest to tighten the lock with every passing turn. The opponent needs to get out of the lock fast, with every turn it passes its harder to get out. The best thing is that with combo piece being 1cmc each, the opponent can hardly see it coming unless they play Gitaxian, Thoughtsize or something of the like.
Hello, Your deck here is quite interesting. My friend Sesordereht is already building his own version of your deck. I told him before about using Forbidden Orchard to help keep Porphyry Nodes in play.
I also saw an enchantment card that might solve those pesky shufflers and help in locking the opponent down some more.
It makes opponents' fetchlands, or any tutor they might have, a liability, it can also be used as a combo for the Sacrifice Shuffle of Lantern of Insight
Played a few more games against Scapeshift. Game 1 is ugly. You have a low chance they don't get Scapeshift somehow with their opening 7-8 (Scapeshift itself, Peer Through Depths, Augur of Bolas, Telling Time, Sleight of Hand, and Snapcaster Mage all nearly say "Scapeshift" on them), and once you Gitaxian Probe them or they reveal cards with Peer Through Depths to reveal a Scapeshift in hand, keeping them off their 7th-8th land is nigh impossible. (You need to mill their 23+ lands, 4 Search for Tomorrow, and 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder at least, so that's more than half their deck already.) If you try to proactively mill them during their upkeep, their instant-speed cantrips like Remand and Cryptic Command are nasty. Your only hope Game 1 is to pray they can't get a Scapeshift to save their life, then force them to land flood as soon as you think you're secure. (I've lost multiple games even when I assemble the Topdeck Lock on Turn 2 on the play.)
I recommend Leyline of Sanctity in the board to at least buy time against them, RDW (another bad match-up, I highly suspect), and UR Storm (ugly as sin Game 1). Surgical Extraction on milled Scapeshifts should also help. Cryptic Command could still make this match-up a joke in their favour, though.
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Good call on the Rest In Peace. One of the biggest things I like about the deck is the recursion power it has.
I like the idea of Venser more than Tezz or Jace. He's more lock whereas the others are more, well, win-more. If you ever manage to pop Venser, you can start spamming your recursions and eventually wipe their board off the game.
Only testing will show which is the best for the deck...
EDIT: Looking at Ajani, all his abilities are perfect for this deck, maybe 1 Ajani, 1 Venser is the best combination. Venser works on the lock, Ajani wipes their filed. Now how to add a R source...
Hmmm, Im not running the orchard, but it offers that R source while boosting Porphyry Nodes... Perfect!
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Tolaria West
2 Forbidden Orchard
2 Academy Ruins
3 Halimar Depths
4 Azorius Chancery
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
Tutors and Dig:
1 Artificer's Intuition
3 Trinket Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Oust
4 Path to Exile
3 Porphyry Nodes
Toolbox:
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Moratorium Stone
Win-Faster-Con:
1 Jace, Memory Adept
Putting the Azorius Chancery in since the deck has no 2-drops. Figured running 18 lands, the "extra" land would help with some consistency. Later on it can go out for some shenanigans with Halimar Depths. 4-of seems too many. I'm pretty rough with these kinds of things lol. Suggestions are welcome!
I'm still not convinced on Forbidden Orchard, is anyone getting good results with it?
I'm also running Sunbeam Spellbomb on the SB for aggro decks, RDW and the likes. I'm only running 3 bullets and sunbeam is only good in certain situations. Engineered Explosives is just too good with Academy Ruins, Pithing Needle shuts down Birthing Pod and a lot of other stuff, Grafdigger's Cage hoses graveyard/library recursion and it also hoses U control's favorite tool, Snapcaster's Mage (Got a U/B/W Geist control to quit when he used Kozilek on the cage and allowed me to assemble the Lantern combo, took one Geist out with Poryphyry and the other was shaved from the top with Codex, hehe).
I love the fact that I can set Engineered at 0 or 2 without harming myself, and could even set it at 3 and sacrifice the Trinket Mages. The forbidden number is 1, since my deck is almost all 1cmc cards.
I'm currently running this list:
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
2 Academy Ruins
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Trinket Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Oust
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to Exile
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Return to Dust
3 Sunbeam Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ghost Quarter
And I'm getting this kind of results:
Pic: How does that scenario look? Engineered had his last hope (Army of the Damned) locked on the graveyard.
I'm keeping Tezz and only as a 1-off, he just wins the turn after he drops, the other planewalkers only help in the control department while Tezz ends games.
EDIT: I'd love see a mirror match with this thing, THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS!
EDIT 2: Tezz's -1 is also better to aid in the control than the other walkers, it can spend its 4 counters fetching me the whole set of shredders/bells. But thats dumb when I can win next turn with the ultimate.
EDIT 3: Added a deck stats pic, for comparisons.
EDIT 4: Just adding pic 3, vs R/U splinter Twin deck, I shaved off Serum and Gitaxian to dig for an answer and found an Oust, Porphyry would take out Deciever, Oust for the Vendilion, Codex his two top creatures and I would have taken 2 more damage before porphyry would take out his last creature for the lock.
EDIT 5: Got screwed by a deck that centered on playing creatures like Aven Mindsensor/Leonin Arbiter + Ghost Quarter. It wasn't that combo that screwed me since I can run on 1 or 2 lands with all the 1cmcs.What screwed me is that it seems Horizon Canopy lets my opponent draw a card before the shredders resolve. Horizon Canopy is now on the to-shred-black list...
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Only really a threat if you're shaving off threat after threat and tapped out.
Something random that crossed my mind, call it a barber deck, "Trim a bit off the top"
Ah yes I've noticed people shuffling with the fetchlands struggling to get out of the lock, I always keep an eye out for that. Let them act, use the shredders/bells at their EOT unless they are trying to get something to their hand, that way if a threat is still on top you will untap on your upkeep for more "shavings". I try not to tap out unless they got several threats in a row, in fact Im starting to allow them to draw stuff other than lands at times when I know I can handle the card they will draw. Say if they will draw a creature and I got a Path in hand, or removal and let them take out my Trinkets, et cetera...
"Trinket's Barber Shop"
Ha ha I like it...
Now on the SB subject:
1 is indeed the forbidden number on Chalice of the Void, it kills the deck.
Someone used a deck with just sweepers and Ajani Vengeant, Elspeth Errant and Gideon. I got a really bad draw and got the combo late, he dropped the planewalkers one after the other and I only had one Needle. Could have dispatched Gideon as it turned into 6/6 and had Vengeant needled, but I couldn't control Elspeth and I had let him draw a few DoJ so I wasn't going to be able to kill it with Trinkets so I conceded.
SBed 2 more needles and the 3 spellbombs to stay ahead if Gideon or Elspeth's tokens attacked. I had a perfect hand to lock him fast on game 2 and Gitaxian revealed he only had Gideon on hand, but I missplayed this one out of panic, Played Lantern on turn 1, saw a Blood Moon on his top and sacced the lantern, that was the missplay, my only color spells are to kill creatures which he had none so Blood Moon wouldn't have affected me much. He shuffled for the lantern and I got to see his top deck since he had the option still on, Chalice of the Void, played it at 1, gg.
We should keep Chalice in mind to refine the SB since it shuts us down on the spot. Maybe some Runed Halos which could also help against some other decks.
Right now Im just testing to find weak spots to refine the SB.
Anyways, thats about it for now, Im dead tired (didnt sleep last night) I'll get back tomorrow.
BTW love the reaction on opponents: Some think its a horrible deck, some think its boring, others think its a great idea and then there are the "WTF does your deck do? types, hilarious.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Surgical Extraction in the sideboard--or at least Negate--will be crucial.
Cubetutor Link
Thats odd, maybe it has to do with the way you were opening your game or you had really bad draws because I almost never mull, the other guys seem to be doing good and aren't mentioning anything about weak opening hands. My opening hands contain either a combo piece and a trinket with some removal/draw, both pieces with some removal/draw or removal/draw and trinket. Those hands are all good. The perfect way to start is with a Codex and a Mishra's Bauble, that way you can look at their top from turn 1 and start "shaving". My first turn play is always a piece of the combo to prevent my opponent from thoughtsizing just in case. A lot of the times you get a Porphyry and path/oust, don't use the path/oust, let them drop 1 or 2 creatures depending on the type of deck, and then drop porphyry while conserving the path/oust for later. It would be dumb to use the removal on the first 2 turns instead of concentrating on the combo because they'll draw as many threats as you take out until you get the combo online, so I'd say just concentrate on the combo.
You tested my version?
At first it was like a puzzle trying to figure out how to play it well, then it all started clicking and now I know exactly how to play opening hands. "Some games" might not be enough to fully get a grip on this deck. Are you taking full advantage of the combo? Don't just take out their threats, you can dig through your deck like a maniac. And did you get to test the recursion with Academy?
My priority is getting the combo online even if I let my opponent attack for a 1-3 turns with 1/1s and 2/2s. Once you get the combo you finish cleaning the field with Porphyry if you have it and tighten the lock. Then you just manage to takeout whatever they got left in hand with path/oust and if you have none, dig through your deck with the combo.
If you do test some more let me know how it goes.
On the other subject, yes, I did think of Surgical Extraction, even thought about splashing B for thoughtsize but I would have had to play that instead of a piece combo on turn 1. Though surgical can be paid with life, will test in the SB.
Got some mainboard ideas?
I will SB that for a while and see how it does. Thanks.
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EDIT: Heres a good example of how complicated this deck is:
Pic: I had both combo pieces and Mishra's Bauble on opening hand. Played a land and Mishra to look at their top and decide if I should drop Lantern first or Ghoulcaller's Bell. He revealed a land, I dropped the Lantern and let him draw the land to reveal a Chalice of the Void as his next draw. Second turn I play Gitaxian and he only had lands, DoJ, Ensaring and Ghostly Prison. Perfect! I dropped two bells, shaved off his Chalice and thought "Ha! You're locked". Then... I let him draw both Mind Stones (Added to black list of cards to shave) in turns 3-4 while I played two more lanterns. However, my biggest error, I used two of my three lanterns to shuffle my library since I had another one and he had nothing to destroy it. Then it turned into a stand off. Ajani Vengeant showed up on his top, if he tried to draw it with mind stone I'd respond with Bell and vice versa, if I tried to shave it he'd respond with the stone. Had no option, used the Bell and he let it go only to show Chalice as his next draw, he used the stone, I responded with the Bell, a land showed on his top, he used mind stone and i let him draw it, another Ajani, had no option, saced my last lantern since he used the stones at my EOT, he shuffled still showing his top... Elspeth was his draw and I had 3 lanterns in the grave and 2 trinkets without a third land (I used the first two lanterns to stupidly shuffle away 2 lands since I had the lock already). Had a Trinket in hand and knew my next draw was another Trinket. I thought I would draw the second and hoped to draw a land next turn to fetch my last lantern and then a needle for Elspeth so I had hope. He dropped Elspeth, ok. I didn't draw a land, he dropped Ajani Vengeant, GG.
Two mistakes (Using my two lanterns unnecesarily and letting him draw Mind Stone) and I lost a game I had locked from turn 1 basically.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
I feel like Engineered Explosives is also a must as a 2-of in this deck. A recurring way to destroy whatever graveyard hate your opponent throws your way, while simultaneously hosing tokens and giving you a way to deal with Planeswalkers? Yes please. It always helps to have a way to deal with the few cards that slip through your fingers, and it's one of the best answers to the token matchup, which seems like it could be problematic.
One last idea: Scourglass. Mindslaver may be a harder lock, but this is faster and buys you all the time you need against everyone but Affinity.
Cubetutor Link
EDIT:
I've been calling the deck The Trinket Factory...but Barber Shop...so sweet....I'm pretty sure I'm playing this in the IQ, anyone else planning on it?
I'm actually going to slowly acquire the cards for this
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
I'm trying a list pretty similar to yours. I've got 4 Trinket Mages, 1 Thirst for Knowledge, 1 Dispatch instead of an Oust, 18 lands, no Pithing Needle maindeck, a Relic of Progenitus maindeck (I love the card draw), a Temple Garden, 4 Seachrome Coast, 1 Celestial Colonnade, and a Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree (initially added to prop up Porphyry Nodes, but I found in testing that it was an actual win con--I'm now forced to mill Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter from topdecks because of it).
I did assemble the topdeck lock successfully against Scapeshift, but since I'm testing against myself on Cockatrice, I realized too late that Scapeshift kept a decent opening hand that already had its namesake card in it. I tried keeping the deck off its 7th land (and Sakura-Tribe Elder, etc.) after I realized that, but then I saw Search for Tomorrow cast from hand and was hooped.
(And yeah, never Path to Exile any of Scapeshift's creatures but Sakura-Tribe Elder. Even then, only PtE him if he's blocking you from winning this turn.)
Sometimes, I dream about adding Counterbalance to the deck and more 2-cmc cards to fix the opposing opening hand problem (yes, I checked with the rulings people, and you can reveal cards that are currently being revealed), but then I realize that the Counter"Top" lock is a 3-card combo I'll never assemble on time against the problematic decks (e.g. RDW).
Constructing the sideboard is painstaking. I figure Affinity will be a problem, as it dumps its hand in the first 2 turns and often outpaces spot removal (and Cranial Plating makes the deck dodge Porphyry Nodes like a bamf), so I'd recommend at least one Hurkyl's Recall there to buy time and two Disenchants to muck with Affinity's big cards, UR Storm, Exarch Twin, and Stony Silence.
I'm prone to moving a Needle maindeck to shut up Birthing Pod (unless you have two Shredders out, you basically can't prevent Pod from topdecking creatures when they make up half the deck--luckily, 4-10 of their guys have no offensive presence, but then you need to mill Gavony Township), Eye of Ugin, planeswalkers, and more.
I'm having problems against Jund, as it can generally disrupt the lock long enough to win, but as long as I can remove the early Delver, the RUG Delver game is mine. It's pretty funny forcing their late-game hand to be lands, removal (I'm still prone to milling Vedalken Shackles, and never let them keep the 4th Bolt/burn spell if you want to stabilize), and Spell Snares.
But where does the seriousness ends? I surely wouldn't take this to a live tournament. I can already see opponents jumping over the table to choke me out of frustration... hahaha just kidding, lets get going:
I'm on some kind of tablet so no tags (I'll fix when I get to my laptop).
Yes, you have so many options open, its nuts, its why some opponents thought is was a boring deck, cause at first I took really long turn figuring out what to do first, what second? what not to do? which top to shave? what to recur? what to kill with spot? what to let porpyhry kill? et cetera...
And yes I can imagine the frustration of drawing a land, playing a land and passing the turn, turn after turn. Its why I opened the OP with "Would it be too evil to land flood your opponent every turn?" Glad you too like the deck.
Also yes, you need to know almost every card in current top decks and even in the entire modern pool to play this extremely efficiently. I had been absent from MTG for quite some time (since kamigawa), and to top it off I just joined Modern a few weeks ago to work on a Puresteel deck when I suddenly had this idea. Thats why I'm making so many mistakes and updating my mental black list of cards to shave slowly based on game tests (expirience).
EE with Academy is as frustrating as the combo itself, in the pic I posted vs the Mono-B deck with Army of the Damned I recured EE like 4 times, in anticipation to their moves. When I shaved his AotD I thought "Fu.. it has flashack" then I activated my at 2 EE, untapped on my upkeep, recured with Academy, Draw EE again, played it at 0 and AotD was flashbackless.
Mindslaver sounds good, but it takes an eternity to reach the lock (6 to play, 4 to activate, 3 to recur = 13 (Pedee pablo)). Scourglass I was so tempted to use, but the 5 cmc scares me a lot, but I guess 1 or 2 maindeck could allow me to let the opponent draw some creatures without ETB or Haste to ease the load on the combo.
Has anyone tested against affinity? I only had one game vs, and I won by letting porphyry do its thing while Pathing the Cranial equipped creature in response to the attack. More tests should be done, it is the deck that I thought would be the major problem.
I will definitely test them through if you are so confident.
So we officially dubbed it "Trinket's Barber Shop"? hahahaha...
The price range on this is around $150 (my version with the fetchlands), it is an extremely good deck considering the budget. Let us know when you start testing it live if your opponents let you live after : )
Seems we converted Lectrys at last... hehe j/k...
On your list:
IMO Thirst for Knowledge is too highly costed for my liking in the deck, 3cmc and discard an artifact? why not play Thoughtcast instead? You will surely spend less than 3 mana on it and still keep 2 cards without discarding. Is thirst working for you or does it feel a burden at times?
Oust is good at what it does, but some times you just wish it was an instant, dispatch is better at what it does, but it needs metalcraft, their both good, but if we follow pyro's mox/dispatch suggestion we could cut Oust maybe.
I wouldn't take Pithing Needle out of the MD, it just answers a lot of stuff, and we don't have much against walkers.
Vitu-Ghazi is an interesting choice, are you having problems with the G splah? as in not having U for the draws or something?
Speaking about lands, I was going through the entire land pool for modern and saw, Magosi the Waterveil... Yeah Im nuts, but hear me out... It enters tapped which I never like but we can use this at a time when the opponent has a land on top and we got the combo untapped, let them take a "controlled" extra turn to charge Magosi. The use for that? To have a loaded Magosi for an extra turn in case of emergency or when you tap out or make a mistake. It has its uses and you can even keep charging Magosi when the situation allows it. At least in my list it also allows me to drop Tezz and immediately take the extra turn for the kill. I'll do some testing, it intrigues me, its one of those "you have to be crazy" lands like the Orchard.
How do you path a Sakura Tribe Elder though? Can't they just sac in response?
The first question I got asked when I started testing was "Are you using Counterbalance"? But I have the same logic as you, it would be a dream to incoporate counters, but it would slow the combo and the counters would end up essentially countering our own game plan instead of threats.
Anyways, imagine how rusty I am at MTG that I was running 4 Return to Dust in SB instead of Disenchant. The card has even been used on me and I didn't pay attention to it. Thanks.
Yes the only B.Pod thats beaten me so far (only played like 6-7 games vs pod) was the first one, when I wasn't playing the needle. It just shuts down their game plan, and having it MB is kind of unexpected to them and to some other decks that are centered around one card.
Personally I still havent tested against a Jund deck, but Im surprised at how this deck plays against U counter. It actually has a few advantages over it, Spell Snare is a dead card to them, we can recur countered pieces, we can hose Snapcaster Mage (My list with Grafdigger's Cage), we got the needle in case Tamiyo shows up, got great removal for Delver, Porphyry takes out Traft, et cetera.
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Well gtg, its not my tablet and this is now kind of a TL/DR post haha...
Later guys, and pardon the redundancy, but thanks for believing in the idea.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
1 Plains
1 Tolaria West
2 Academy Ruins
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Forbidden Orchard
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Arid Mesa
Creatures:
4 Trinket Mage
Sorceries:
4 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thoughtcast
4 Dispatch
4 Path to Exile
Enchantments:
3 Porphyry Nodes
Artifacts:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Graffdiggers Cage
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Brittle Effigy
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Spell Pierce
4 Disenchant
Obviously it'll need some testing, but this seems to be about where I'd want it to be.
I'd run -1 Engineered, +1 Pithing maybe.
EDIT: Sage of Epityr - U for a 1/1 with Scry 4? Will take out Serum Visions to test this.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
I think serum Is better. Since you can set up your draw with the barber combo.
Sage doesn't cantrip
It wasn't the part about ditching what you don't want that put me off this card, it was the no cantrip part, hurts a lot.
But, I'm trying something that is giving better results than Serum so far, sleight of hand, Serum Draws before scrying, this lets you draw either of the first two, helps in more situations I think.
Yeah it has like a kind of natural synergy into it, seems every card somehow helps the rest to tighten the lock with every passing turn. The opponent needs to get out of the lock fast, with every turn it passes its harder to get out. The best thing is that with combo piece being 1cmc each, the opponent can hardly see it coming unless they play Gitaxian, Thoughtsize or something of the like.
As for the list, I'm playing this today:
3 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
2 Academy Ruins
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Forbidden Orchard
4 Trinket Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Sleight of Hand
3 Oust
3 Path to Exile
2 Dispatch
4 Codex Shredder
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
4 Porphyry Nodes
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sunbeam Spellbomb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Engineered Explosives
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
I also saw an enchantment card that might solve those pesky shufflers and help in locking the opponent down some more.
This card that I saw is Psychic Surgery
It makes opponents' fetchlands, or any tutor they might have, a liability, it can also be used as a combo for the Sacrifice Shuffle of Lantern of Insight
Any thoughts?
I recommend Leyline of Sanctity in the board to at least buy time against them, RDW (another bad match-up, I highly suspect), and UR Storm (ugly as sin Game 1). Surgical Extraction on milled Scapeshifts should also help. Cryptic Command could still make this match-up a joke in their favour, though.