Also 6 discard spells is an incredibly large amount and is certainly too many in a deck without a super fast clock like DS has. I'd want to cut one or two in favor of another mana leak and/or a cryptic.
RE: Storm
I also cut some cryptic, but I never get rid of them all. If we don't get a clock down early (which does happen) it's important to have a hard counter for a late game PiF that wins the game. Keep the liliana's, she does far too much work against them. I also cut all of my AV's because that's not what the game is about. You want pressure and disruption, card advantage is meaningless on both ends. The ultimate goal here is to prevent them from enacting their game plan by any means possible which lili excels at greatly. So long as you can do that it doesn't matter what else you do so long as you're attacking with literally anything.
Lastly I hate leylines as GY hate of choice because it's only good on turn 0 since it doesn't nuke their yard like RiP does. You don't want to tap out on turn 4 to cast it because you'll just die and if you wait until much later their yard is likely already lethal off of a PiF. That means you have to fight over a bounce spell and leave them with a full yard. I'd much rather go with spell bombs or relics because against their graveyard you have to shut it down completely rather than simply disable it.
Thanks for your advice! I actually moved from leylines to spellbombs this weekend in order to put a third brutality in the board, really liking the change.
How does this deck fair without lilis? Unfortunately I can't get them right now but I always liked faeries in modern!
It typically comes down to ancestral vision or lili, one is more midrangy the other more controling, but imo both are equally viable. Just make sure that you have enough removal to cover for the lack of her and you should be fine.
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I decided to compile a list of all the situations and threats that causes pendelhaven to go from a cute 1-of to something that really impacts the game. When you can give your 1/1 tokens and sprites +1/+2 at instant speed you can do quite a lot, here's some examples:
Most importantly, it reduces your naked Bitterblossom clock by an entire turn, going from 7 turns down to 6 for a kill.
Creatures that you can now gobble up instead of trading with or chumping:
Everything from the Elves deck
Snapcaster mage
Dark confidant
Silvergil adept
Memnite
Ink(blink)moth nexus
Grim lavamancer
ornithopter
Eternal witness
Vizier of remedies
Delver of secrets
Young pyromancer and friends
Matter reshaper
Eldrazi skyspawner
Monistary swiftspear
Eidolon of the great revel
Thalia, guardian of thraben
leonin arbiter
Wasteland strangler
Opposing faeries
Geist of saint traft
Mutavault
Grim flayer without delirium
Lingering souls
Goblin electromancer
Thraben inspector
Kitchen finks
Noble or Birds with a +1/+1 counter
Creatures that you can now bounce off in combat without either dying:
Spell Queller
Baral
Shambling vent
Cards that get worse against you:
electrolyze
Walking balista
Izzet staticaster
Collective brutality
Liliana, the last hope
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Very, you have favorable matches against many of the top tier decks and still have game against the rest of the field. You're good against GDS, coco decks, storm, UWR geist, and all control variants. The only popular decks that you're less than 50/50 against imo are merfolk, elves, and eldrazi.
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And on that day, Garfield said unto the world "Go ye forth and durdle!"
Right now I play Black/White tokens and I'm working on getting Bitterblossoms for that deck. I checked this thread since I saw that it was using faeries and I was curious.
This looks like something someone could transition to if they started out with BW Tokens. Do you think it's better than tokens?
Edit:
Also is it viable to run a budget faerie build without Liliana or is it not worth running it at all unless you go full ham on the full build?
If you have the time, could you post what build you play? And if anyone has a budget version could you please share it. Thank you.
Right now I play Black/White tokens and I'm working on getting Bitterblossoms for that deck. I checked this thread since I saw that it was using faeries and I was curious.
This looks like something someone could transition to if they started out with BW Tokens. Do you think it's better than tokens?
Edit:
Also is it viable to run a budget faerie build without Liliana or is it not worth running it at all unless you go full ham on the full build?
If you have the time, could you post what build you play? And if anyone has a budget version could you please share it. Thank you.
Several players still run lists without lilis. The most successful ones lately did have her, but it is possible to built ur deck in a why that she is not needed. Transitioning from BW tokens to faeries is not easy since you need snapcasters, cryptic commands and A LOT of lands for the mana base.
My friend and I have been playing a lot of modern matchups of Faeries vs Mono-Green Stompy and in our experience Faeries seems to have a very poor matchup against Stompy. I was thinking of adding some combination of sweepers (Damnation, Bontu's Last Reckoning), high toughness deathtouch roadblock creatures (Gifted Aetherborn, Graveblade Marauder), and protection from green creatures (Woodlot Crawler, Zombie Outlander). Any ideas on how to effectively sideboard for this matchup?
Damnation and gifted aetherborn seem fine. Kalitas is also probably pretty good.
Otherwise, more kill spells (hero's downfall, slaughter pact, dismember, go for the throat are common sideboard cards) are good.
I could see playing sword of feast and famine if you wanted pro-green, but I don't think thats necessary.
has there been any thoughts of playing Jace, Cunning Castaway in Faeries at all? The loot ability seems like it would be helpful, a 2/2 illusion in a pinch doesn't hurt, and his quick ultimate puts a fair amount of pressure on board with not a whole lot of investment. I've found there isn't a lot of Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt flying around to punish for tapping out for Jace, but maybe he still doesn't do enough to warrant a slot in the main deck. What do you guys think?
Right now I play Black/White tokens and I'm working on getting Bitterblossoms for that deck. I checked this thread since I saw that it was using faeries and I was curious.
This looks like something someone could transition to if they started out with BW Tokens. Do you think it's better than tokens?
Edit:
Also is it viable to run a budget faerie build without Liliana or is it not worth running it at all unless you go full ham on the full build?
If you have the time, could you post what build you play? And if anyone has a budget version could you please share it. Thank you.
Several players still run lists without lilis. The most successful ones lately did have her, but it is possible to built ur deck in a why that she is not needed. Transitioning from BW tokens to faeries is not easy since you need snapcasters, cryptic commands and A LOT of lands for the mana base.
I guess I should have clarified. I understand that it'd be a long term change but I mostly wanted to know if enough of the cards were similar between the decks to alleviate some of the cost compared to just buying into faeries from the start. I think I got my answer though in the end.
Just curious, I noticed the inclusion of perilous research, I expect that most times you are sacrificing a faerie token from BB. Do you find this is the case in your games, or do you find that you commonly are sacrificing other things (lands, BB, non-token faeries)?
Also, that's a lot of lili's. Is it because you tend to use her as a removal slot (i.e. a sorcery speed murder (-2 ability))?
Finally, I recognize Serum visions is a pretty good T-1 play, do you find it difficult to use later game, as we usually like to hold up cryptic?
Perilous Research is an odd ball card. I tested it once before in a normal aggro-control build with Mistbind Clique and Vendilion Clique, etc. I was getting minimal value out of it. So, I dropped it. Then, Liliana of the Veil in Yuta style lists were popping up with success and I wanted to test it again. And, it’s value city in this build.
Example:
You have one Faerie token, Bitterblossom, and a Liliana in play with X counters on it. Your opponent is outpacing you with beatdown creatures (Kitchen Finks + another creature) with power on board to kill your Liliana and you have only one blocker. You untapped and find your 4th Land drop is a Darkslick Shores or Creeping Tar Pit (SAD DAY!!!!!). No, instead, you pass the turn back immediately with confidence, because you know your opponent is going to attack the Liliana, which you don’t block and play Perilous Research and sacrifice the planeswalker. In hindsight, you are up a faerie token next turn to counter a 4CMC spell with Spellstutter Sprite. You just forced your opponent to waste an entire combat and fog them. And, you just drew 2 cards and 1 for your turn. You have Snapcaster Mage/Fatal Push in hand with 2 Faerie blockers. It’s a huge tempo swing for a well timed 2 CMC play.
Why so many Lily’s?
Answer: Because, usually decks fold to one or the other. Double Liliana and a ticking Bitterblossom is hard to overcome when you are in a top deck war. The worse deck is Storm and just SB them out for interaction. Plus, Liliana is a combat magnet (unintentional FOG). Opponents are so scared of her to stick around, while the Bitterblossom just keeps ticking.
Serum Visions:
I tested Opt and was really unimpressed. If you drop Lily’s and go back to a Spell Snare type of deck I think that’s where Opt wins. Turn 1 Serum Visions allows one land hands able to keep with confidence. Opt struggles with that. You have to play Serum Visions like you play with discard. During the odd turns you play it and hold up counter. Cryptic Command is always a priority unless you absolutely need an answer for something (Leon Arbiter or Thalia). Or, you play Serum Visions and Liliana on the same turn. It’s heavily dependent on the opponents deck and the situation.
I was reading the first page of the primer but the matchups seem really outdated as the current build is much different.
Anyone know when it'll be updated or anyone want to write a very small resumed paragraph about that?
Also, my meta currently is some burn and some control. Almost no combo and no eldrazi.
Would this deck be good against those? Or can it be tuned towards those decks?
I was reading the first page of the primer but the matchups seem really outdated as the current build is much different.
Anyone know when it'll be updated or anyone want to write a very small resumed paragraph about that?
Also, my meta currently is some burn and some control. Almost no combo and no eldrazi.
Would this deck be good against those? Or can it be tuned towards those decks?
The deck can definitely be catered towards winning against those decks.
I would suggest joining the Faeries Discord for sure because a lot of discussion goes on there. I also have a sideboard primer that gets worked on when I have the time here: Faeries Sideboard Guide
For someone trying to win against Burn and Control, I would probably suggest a list that runs more collective brutalities. Here's a list I stole from the Faeries Discord that runs some number of Brutalities main, as a starting point:
I was reading the first page of the primer but the matchups seem really outdated as the current build is much different.
Anyone know when it'll be updated or anyone want to write a very small resumed paragraph about that?
Also, my meta currently is some burn and some control. Almost no combo and no eldrazi.
Would this deck be good against those? Or can it be tuned towards those decks?
The deck can definitely be catered towards winning against those decks.
I would suggest joining the Faeries Discord for sure because a lot of discussion goes on there. I also have a sideboard primer that gets worked on when I have the time here: Faeries Sideboard Guide
For someone trying to win against Burn and Control, I would probably suggest a list that runs more collective brutalities. Here's a list I stole from the Faeries Discord that runs some number of Brutalities main, as a starting point:
How does everyone feel about running a Disdainful Stroke in the place of a Ceremonious Rejection? You're trading 1 Mana for something that hits not only big Eldrazi/Karn/Ugin, but also comes in for Prime Time, Tasigur, and Angler. The only matchup you're really dropping is Affinity which is already an amazing matchup for us.
Thoughts? Meta dependent? Better at 100+ person events?
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Thanks for your advice! I actually moved from leylines to spellbombs this weekend in order to put a third brutality in the board, really liking the change.
It typically comes down to ancestral vision or lili, one is more midrangy the other more controling, but imo both are equally viable. Just make sure that you have enough removal to cover for the lack of her and you should be fine.
Most importantly, it reduces your naked Bitterblossom clock by an entire turn, going from 7 turns down to 6 for a kill.
Creatures that you can now gobble up instead of trading with or chumping:
Everything from the Elves deck
Snapcaster mage
Dark confidant
Silvergil adept
Memnite
Ink(blink)moth nexus
Grim lavamancer
ornithopter
Eternal witness
Vizier of remedies
Delver of secrets
Young pyromancer and friends
Matter reshaper
Eldrazi skyspawner
Monistary swiftspear
Eidolon of the great revel
Thalia, guardian of thraben
leonin arbiter
Wasteland strangler
Opposing faeries
Geist of saint traft
Mutavault
Grim flayer without delirium
Lingering souls
Goblin electromancer
Thraben inspector
Kitchen finks
Noble or Birds with a +1/+1 counter
Creatures that you can now bounce off in combat without either dying:
Spell Queller
Baral
Shambling vent
Cards that get worse against you:
electrolyze
Walking balista
Izzet staticaster
Collective brutality
Liliana, the last hope
Very, you have favorable matches against many of the top tier decks and still have game against the rest of the field. You're good against GDS, coco decks, storm, UWR geist, and all control variants. The only popular decks that you're less than 50/50 against imo are merfolk, elves, and eldrazi.
Right now I play Black/White tokens and I'm working on getting Bitterblossoms for that deck. I checked this thread since I saw that it was using faeries and I was curious.
This looks like something someone could transition to if they started out with BW Tokens. Do you think it's better than tokens?
Edit:
Also is it viable to run a budget faerie build without Liliana or is it not worth running it at all unless you go full ham on the full build?
If you have the time, could you post what build you play? And if anyone has a budget version could you please share it. Thank you.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Otherwise, more kill spells (hero's downfall, slaughter pact, dismember, go for the throat are common sideboard cards) are good.
I could see playing sword of feast and famine if you wanted pro-green, but I don't think thats necessary.
I guess I should have clarified. I understand that it'd be a long term change but I mostly wanted to know if enough of the cards were similar between the decks to alleviate some of the cost compared to just buying into faeries from the start. I think I got my answer though in the end.
Where could I find some non-liliana builds?
MB:
1 Swamp
3 Island
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Water Grave
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Mutavault
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Serum Visions
1 Perilous Research
3 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
4 Bitterblossom
1 Murderous Cut
2 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Countersquall
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
2 Damnation
3 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Tectonic Edge
Just curious, I noticed the inclusion of perilous research, I expect that most times you are sacrificing a faerie token from BB. Do you find this is the case in your games, or do you find that you commonly are sacrificing other things (lands, BB, non-token faeries)?
Also, that's a lot of lili's. Is it because you tend to use her as a removal slot (i.e. a sorcery speed murder (-2 ability))?
Finally, I recognize Serum visions is a pretty good T-1 play, do you find it difficult to use later game, as we usually like to hold up cryptic?
Perilous Research is an odd ball card. I tested it once before in a normal aggro-control build with Mistbind Clique and Vendilion Clique, etc. I was getting minimal value out of it. So, I dropped it. Then, Liliana of the Veil in Yuta style lists were popping up with success and I wanted to test it again. And, it’s value city in this build.
Example:
You have one Faerie token, Bitterblossom, and a Liliana in play with X counters on it. Your opponent is outpacing you with beatdown creatures (Kitchen Finks + another creature) with power on board to kill your Liliana and you have only one blocker. You untapped and find your 4th Land drop is a Darkslick Shores or Creeping Tar Pit (SAD DAY!!!!!). No, instead, you pass the turn back immediately with confidence, because you know your opponent is going to attack the Liliana, which you don’t block and play Perilous Research and sacrifice the planeswalker. In hindsight, you are up a faerie token next turn to counter a 4CMC spell with Spellstutter Sprite. You just forced your opponent to waste an entire combat and fog them. And, you just drew 2 cards and 1 for your turn. You have Snapcaster Mage/Fatal Push in hand with 2 Faerie blockers. It’s a huge tempo swing for a well timed 2 CMC play.
Why so many Lily’s?
Answer: Because, usually decks fold to one or the other. Double Liliana and a ticking Bitterblossom is hard to overcome when you are in a top deck war. The worse deck is Storm and just SB them out for interaction. Plus, Liliana is a combat magnet (unintentional FOG). Opponents are so scared of her to stick around, while the Bitterblossom just keeps ticking.
Serum Visions:
I tested Opt and was really unimpressed. If you drop Lily’s and go back to a Spell Snare type of deck I think that’s where Opt wins. Turn 1 Serum Visions allows one land hands able to keep with confidence. Opt struggles with that. You have to play Serum Visions like you play with discard. During the odd turns you play it and hold up counter. Cryptic Command is always a priority unless you absolutely need an answer for something (Leon Arbiter or Thalia). Or, you play Serum Visions and Liliana on the same turn. It’s heavily dependent on the opponents deck and the situation.
Anyone know when it'll be updated or anyone want to write a very small resumed paragraph about that?
Also, my meta currently is some burn and some control. Almost no combo and no eldrazi.
Would this deck be good against those? Or can it be tuned towards those decks?
The deck can definitely be catered towards winning against those decks.
I would suggest joining the Faeries Discord for sure because a lot of discussion goes on there. I also have a sideboard primer that gets worked on when I have the time here: Faeries Sideboard Guide
For someone trying to win against Burn and Control, I would probably suggest a list that runs more collective brutalities. Here's a list I stole from the Faeries Discord that runs some number of Brutalities main, as a starting point:
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Vendilion Clique
2x Mistbind Clique
4x Opt
4x Bitterblossom
4x Fatal Push
4x Cryptic Command
3x Collective Brutality
2x Mana Leak
1x Go for the Throat
1x Murderous Cut
3x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Polluted Delta
4x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Watery Grave
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
3x Ceremonious Rejection
3x Thoughtseize
2x Countersquall
1x Flashfreeze
1x Disdainful Stroke
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Disfigure
1x Flaying Tendrils
FULL TIME FAERIES
Selvala
Thank you so much!!! Great help! I'll be sure to read it when I get a little time. (already read some)
Btw, whats the faeries discord? How can I find it?
Thoughts? Meta dependent? Better at 100+ person events?