Renegade Krasis does get mentioned occasionally. Even on an ultra budget there are better creatures. Its kind of a win more creature when it works, but often just a 3/2 for 3. If it had a Cytoplast Root-Kin ETB ability instead, I think it would be more playable.
Has it been revisited since Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator came out that seem to mesh with this beautifully? If they have revolt they evolve this, which in turn beefs them back.
Renegade Krasis does get mentioned occasionally. Even on an ultra budget there are better creatures. Its kind of a win more creature when it works, but often just a 3/2 for 3. If it had a Cytoplast Root-Kin ETB ability instead, I think it would be more playable.
Has it been revisited since Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator came out that seem to mesh with this beautifully? If they have revolt they evolve this, which in turn beefs them back.
Yes, its not very good. Sometimes it can't even evolve E1 because its already a 3/3. I rather play Groundbreaker. You often won't be revolting on turn 4/5, and if you do its after combat, so the counters take another turn to matter on the offensive.
As I was mentioning above, I think Ixalan’s Carnage Tyrant is a top EE payoff for decks that can get a 4 into play quick/cheap. Sagu Mauler was my old stalwart in this role but he’s about to be toppled.
Amic, we see each other in the Super Vengevine thread. That deck may make a better shell for this. That deck could often land a Hooting Mandrills T2 - turning that into a t3 fetchdrop Griselbrand should be game over.
I noticed a few pages back that some people were trying out greenbelt rampager. Has anyone had success with it? I noticed it synergizes really well with experiment one, but another combo I found kind of neat is with elemental bond. With bond on the field you can pay 3 mana for your 3/4 rampager and draw 3 cards. Plus, I see a lot of us already play a good bit of 3 power creatures anyways. Might be too cute for modern, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Earlier on I said I would post results of a b/g list I was brewing up, but unfortunately I don't have the money to buy what I need right now. It might be a few weeks. So, instead, I just made a few changes to mono-green list and ran it through the friendly modern league on MTGO. Here's the list and the results.
game 1: L
Opponent takes the play and starts off with a faithless looting, putting one vengevine into his grave. I play a mystic and pass. Opponent plays another filter spell to draw and discard. He then cycles a street wraith and puts two hollowed one into play, reanimating the vengevine and swinging in 4 damage, putting me to 16. I untap and play kitchen finks, putting me to 18 life. Opponent untaps and casts burning-tree emissary into reckless bushwacker and swings for 15 damage. I block the vengevine and go to 8, then back up to 10 life. I untap and play predator ooze, holding back my finks to block. Opponent untaps, hard casts a vengevine and swings 12. I chump vengevine with the ooze and trade finks with burning-tree emissary, putting me to 2 life. I untap, draw nothing helpful, and concede.
Side in - 4 tormod's crypt and 1 ulvenwald tracker
side out - 1 bow of nylea, 1 nylea god of the hunt, 3 vines of the vastwood
Game 2: W
Opponent plays nothing but filter spells on turns 2 and 3. but I have a quick enough start to stick an early predator ooze and kill him with pump spells.
Game 3: W
Opponent plays a turn 1 faithless looting, discarding nothing relevant. I play a wasteland viper and a tormod's crypt. Opponent scoops immediately.
Obviously, wasteland viper is terrifying.
Match 2: u/r Hivemind combo (2-1)
Game 1: L
Opponent takes the play and has zero interaction with me for the first 3 turns. But thanks to a mana seism he is able to cast a turn 4 hive mind and kill me on the spot with pact of the titan.
Combo matchups like this that don't rely on graveyard or a ton of artifacts are pretty much a loss for me. I play through regardless.
Side in: 2 reclamation sage
side out: 1 bow of nylea, 1 nylea god of the hunt
Game 2: W
Once again, opponent has zero interaction with me all game, except this time he is unable to find his combo and I goldfish a turn 4 kill.
Game 3: W
repeat of game 2
Match 3: Grixis death's shadow (2-0)
Game 1: W
I take the play and start with a wasteland viper. Opponent fetches and shocks himself with a watery grave, going down to 17. I untap and play strangleroot geist, swinging for 3 damage. Opponent goes down to 14, then thoughtscours himself. Opponent untaps, fetches and shocks himself down to 11 life, then plays tasigur, the golden fang, leaving one mana up. I untap and play kitchen finks, going up to 22 life, then attack with wasteland strangler. He can't block with tasigur, so he burns a fatal push on the snake. Opponent untaps, casts serum vision, fetches and shocks himself down to 8 life and hits me with inquisition of kozilek, ripping aspect of hydra from my hand. I can't remember what else he did this turn, but I remember he tapped out. I untap, draw a second aspect of hydra, play my fourth land and kitchen finks, then swing out, pumping my unblocked strangelroot geist to 8 and winning the game.
Opponent becomes extremely salty.
This is my 6th or 7th match against death's shadow since I put this deck together almost 2 weeks ago. I have yet to lose this matchup. Feeling very confident.
Side in: 2 great stable stag
side out: 2 aspect of hydra
Game 2: W
Opponent gets off a turn 2 gurmag angler but is stuck on two lands for the majority of the match.
Opponent becomes so salty I can taste it.
I can't remember the exact details of the match, but mostly, he wasted several kill spells and creatures on my strangleroot geists and kitchen finks wearing 2 rancors. Swung through 2 fatal push, a snapcaster, and a death's shadow. The match ended with him tapping out to block my 6/1 kitchen finks with a 7/7 death's shadow and my geist with a surprise snapcaster. Before damage I bloodrushed a wasteland viper onto my finks, essentially making it unblockable, and killing him for exactly 6 damage.
Once again, opponent shows poor sportsmanship. And I revel in destroying his 300$ deck with my 20$ of bull*****.
Match 4: U/g kiora control.
Game 1: L
again, my memory is starting to get a little hazy. I don't remember specifics, but I remember I had an incredibly slow opening hand of only 3 drops. Oppnent bounces and counters every single spell I play until eventually he ultimates kiora, the crashing wave and kills me with 9/9 tokens.
side in: 2 great stable stag
side out: 1 aspect of hydra, 1 nylea god of the hunt
Game 2: W
I start the game with a much faster hand. Oppoenent plays a little ramp and removal but is unable to keep up with my creatures. On turn 4 he taps out for vorapede and I see my opportunity to go for it. I swing in with the crew, he blocks, I blood rush and pump my creature. The combination of trample and deathtouch punches through enough damage to put him to -2 life
Game 3: W
Once again, I have yet another slow hand of only 3 drops. This time though I have vines and great stable stag for protection, so I keep. Opponent finds no ramp this time, but still casts a turn 4 kiora, which locks down my turn 3 predator ooze. I untap and play kitchen finks, then swing with the ooze to get a a +1/+1 counter and pass. He plays a blocker and continues to fog my ooze. Eventually I get enough creatures out to start dealing some damage to him while fending off removal with vines of the vastwood and great stable stag. However, he sets me back 2 turns with aetherize, which gives him enough time to ultimate kiora and tap out once again for vorapede. He has vorapede, two 9/9 tokens, a snapcaster mage, and a rogue refiner, but all I see is my opportunity to go for it. I swing in with just a rancored great stable stag and he is forced to block with only vorapede since the rest of his creatures are blue. I bloodrush a wasteland viper for death touch and cast a HUGE aspect of hydra. The combination of death touch and trample lets me swing through his giant bug, and I deal like 14 damage to him, winning the game.
It's getting pretty late so I'm going to play my last game tomorrow. But, I can already say, vines of the vastwood is pretty great in the mainboard, and protection from colors also feels really good. Great stable stag was really good in that oce fringe situation with kiora control, but the 3/3 body is still weak to lightning bolt and big green blockers. I'm not sure I want to play it at all in the board anymore, since my matchup against death's shadow is so good, but if I do want an anti-black creature, I'm going to pick up chameleon collusus instead. Also, I really wanted a draw spell against the removal heavy decks, but when the time came, it didn't feel safe to run cheap draw that targeted my creatures. So, in the future, I think I'm just going to drop that all together. I was looking through older posts in this thread and was reminded of dismember's existence, so I'm also going to replace ulvenwald tracker with those. Wasteland viper has raised a lot of eyebrows, but considering it won me three games today and ate removal, I'm thinking there might be something good there. Finally, I'm going add in a couple blossoming defense as well for added speed and protection.
For a deck this budget, I have to say. It feels incredibly strong. And I am impressed again and again by it. So far, the only matchups I feel are favored against me are tron, non graveyard combo, soul sisters, and eldrazi and taxes. Everything else I've encountered feels very winnable.
Comments and criticism appreciated!
would love to hear any other tournament reports as well. the more info we have, the better we can tune this green mutha-****er!
I came here to check out the discussion on Shaper's Sanctuary, saw none going on, went back 3 pages and still nothing. I'm really surprised, guys. This is the card that will make postboard against bolts, paths, terminates not just winnable but actually hard to lose.
And all it asks for is your turn 1. Which I think is super cheap for what it promises. Doesn't insure against board wipes but eh, if you slow roll creatures 2 at a time you'll take down most UWx strategies.
I saw some discussion on Eldritch Evolution. I think the point that EE is bad in Stompy is half true. If you just jam EE into your deck and keep everything else the same, then yea all you'll be doing all day is upsizing your meals. EE like people that provide value on sacrifice, like Young Wolf, Strangleroot, Finks, Matter Reshaper, and if we're splashing, Voice of Resurgence. Honestly if I ran EE in an aggressive shell like this I wouldn't skip on the Voice. After all, voice and strangleroot are the ones that curve before EE. Not to mention, EE a Voice and bring out a Wilt-leaf liege, splicer, or TKS, or Thrun depending on what you need and what you're playing against, totally opens up the mid-late game for this deck. It also makes your sideboard a quiver of silver arrows: Linvala, Thrun, Kataki, Gaddock, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Chameleon Colossus, Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth, Melira.
The offensive power is no slouch either. Consider this preboard line of play;
t1 Dryad Militant
t2 Voice of Resurgence; beat for 2 with militant
t3 EE the Voice, getting a GW Token; tutor up Wilt-Leaf Liege. (militant is 4/3, token is 5/5) Beat for 9. 13 power on the board.
I know some will say this is moving toward little kid abzan. I suppose it simply attests to the easy upgradability and adaptability of the stompy shell. The deck certainly has a lot to gain by splashing, but of course individuals will have their preferences.
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I noticed a few pages back that some people were trying out greenbelt rampager. Has anyone had success with it? I noticed it synergizes really well with experiment one, but another combo I found kind of neat is with elemental bond. With bond on the field you can pay 3 mana for your 3/4 rampager and draw 3 cards. Plus, I see a lot of us already play a good bit of 3 power creatures anyways. Might be too cute for modern, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Earlier on I said I would post results of a b/g list I was brewing up, but unfortunately I don't have the money to buy what I need right now. It might be a few weeks. So, instead, I just made a few changes to mono-green list and ran it through the friendly modern league on MTGO. Here's the list and the results.
Once again, opponent shows poor sportsmanship. And I revel in destroying his 300$ deck with my 20$ of bull*****.
<snip>
Comments and criticism appreciated!
First of all, I like your use of Wasteland Viper.. really useful with trample from Rancor.
Bolt isn't played much right now.. so the stag can be kept in since he can't be Fatal pushed.. but if you're looking for more power, then Chameleon Colossus is good too.
And just a minor nitpick.. your deck is not 20$ ... because it has 4 finks.
@thefluff
It's so nice to see the viper getting some love. It's not as aggressive as narnam renegade, but it's more flexible. And I must confess, I've always had a weakness for cards that serve multiple purposes.
I'll keep testing the stag on MTGO to see if how it plays against bolt. But, mainly because chameleon colossus is 20$ a pop. It's only 2$ in real life though, so I may get a set just for funsies.
Kitchen finks on the other hand is just the opposite. It's 2-3$ on MTGO but 20$ in real life. So, technically, I still paid around 20$ for my entire deck. Not to be nitpicky
@amicdeep
That's cool your deck has been doing so well! I really like rhonas and hooting mandrills in your list. I may try to fit those in later
Kitchen finks is an all-star. Especially if you play it on turn two. It makes burn, aggro, and removal heavy decks much easier to play against. The reason I play it over leatherback baloth is mainly because I'm tired of losing to fatal push decks.
Renegade Krasis does get mentioned occasionally. Even on an ultra budget there are better creatures. Its kind of a win more creature when it works, but often just a 3/2 for 3. If it had a Cytoplast Root-Kin ETB ability instead, I think it would be more playable.
Has it been revisited since Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator came out that seem to mesh with this beautifully? If they have revolt they evolve this, which in turn beefs them back.
Yes, its not very good. Sometimes it can't even evolve E1 because its already a 3/3. I rather play Groundbreaker. You often won't be revolting on turn 4/5, and if you do its after combat, so the counters take another turn to matter on the offensive.
Can you point me to the posts where it was tried and discussed after Narnam Renegade, Greenwheel Liberator, and Greenbelt Rampager were introduced to the pool? To the best of my google-fu I couldn't find any discussion of it here from pre-Kaladesh until ccc's mention last week. I understand it was ruled inferior-to-other-options in the pre-Kaladesh time, and with good reason. But these three cards have been used by some flavors of this deck, and I haven't seen a discussion (until the one I'm trying to start and you're trying unusually-hard to stop) of how those flavors might incorporate Renegade Krasis in decks where most of the creatures get counters, and trigger or benefit from revolt and/or evolve.
If there has been a discussion of RK since the Revolt-for-counters cards were introduced, please point me to it (I thought I'd followed this thread pretty closely since then, and this is the first I've seen, and neither the on-board nor off-board search facilities can find any such posts. If there hasn't, please allow it to be discussed rather than go with the "We talked about this before the new cards you're trying to synergize with were introduced, we decreed it inferior, NOW NO MORE TALKING IT IS VERBOTEN" attitude you're hitting me with here.
Rampager can evolve Krasis twice. NRenegade and Lib each evolve base-Krasis if they come in revolted and in turn get re-boosted back. The deck would definitely run the usual counterhappy duo of Avatar of the Resolute and Experiment One (unsure about Strangleroot Geist).
It seems like the krasis could have potential in a +1/+1 counter heavy deck. Maybe even try out hardened scales and servant of the scale or nissa voice of zendikar. If you can't find much discussion here, you may want to try the hardened scales deck discussion instead, since that focusses more on counters.
I come up with wacky ideas all the time and sometimes it's really difficult to get a discussion started on it. When that happens, I just fire up MTGO and test it out to see if it's any good. If you wanna take a run at a league or play several games in the tournament practice area, then you can post your results here once you're done. The prices of cards are usually much cheaper on MTGO, and it's free to download. But more importantly, results will always be more valuable than speculation. If you wanna get krasis noticed, then go see for yourself and tell us what you find!
I caught a lot of flack for running wasteland viper in the first list I posted. But when I showed it won me three games alongside rancor, I managed to convert my first believer
I don't do the MTGO thing. Hate the interface, hate having a 'divided collection', don't especially like a large percentage of online gamers (people tend to be more polite sitting across a real table from you than sitting behind their screens), and when at home my attention or ability to commit unbroken time is often divided (Dad! Daaaaad! Come quick!).
Was thinking of Winding Constrictor as a possibility (I'm likely running fetches to reliably trigger revolts anyway, so I can spare a shallow splash - it also opens the option of a Rakdos Cackler as another always-gets-a-counter-always-evolves-a-1/1-E1 option)
I'll agree. MTGO is irritating as **** to play on. Most people I run into are nice, or don't say anything at all, but the interface itself is very poor, since my laptop is not very fast or powerful, it tends to run slowly or crash while I'm playing. That being said, the convenience of being able to test homebrews as many times as I want at my leisure is totally worth it. You get reliable feedback so much faster than having to wait once a week for maybe 4-5 matches at an fnm. I can play three times as many games in that same timeframe online.
But I totally understand, being a parent makes testing at home difficult I'm sure.
I forget what the exact title of the thread was, but there is 100% a discussion on the topic of winding constrictor + hardened scales in modern. I'm not sure why stompy and g/b snake are separate threads since they're both green based efficient agro decks, but you will likely find what you're looking for there. Either way, I'm really interested to hear your results.
What would a stompy snake list look like for you?
I think the inclusion of black would greatly improve your game against combo
Renegade Krasis is an interesting card. I might have to test that. I'd like it a lot better if it started 3/3 for 3 mana. The GG1 cost makes it friendlier to two-color decks or folks running utility lands.
There's one gap there. Not sure if the best fit there is removal (Fatal Push), damage augment (Rancor), more pump+protection (Blossoming Defense), or another counters-matter card like Inspiring Call.
I'd like it a lot better if it started 3/3 for 3 mana.
On the contrary, I prefer it was a 3/2 and I'd rather it started 3/1! We want to evolve it and get that tasty trigger. If it started as a 3/3 it wouldn't evolve off an X/3 creature (like Winding Constrictor or a revolted Narnam Renegade).
I think aether hub is a trap here. What happens when you draw hub and forest in your opener and everything in your hand is 1-2 green? You wont always have greenbelt and hub together, and even if you did, you might still habe to spend mana on greenbelt just so you can turn aetherhub back on. and with such a low land count, expect an average of 2 land in your opener.
Either play more green sources or drop it. Otherwise you'll end up mulling more frequently
Hm, perhaps. Another land I have in consideration on Revolt decks is Gemstone Mine. Always gets the color I need turns 1 2 3, but I can often aim to have it 'go away' and give me a revolt trigger on turn 3 if that looks like the ideal plan (and if I aim to have it last instead, have it be NOT the land I play on T1).
I have tested Hardened Scales Aggro heavily since Scales is my favorite card.
The best way to use +1/+1 counters in an aggro deck is using fast creatures that can get an immediate boost (basically a permanent Glorious Anthem effect to creatures on the battlefield, even if they remove Hardened Scales.)
The concept is to hit fast and powerful, as aggro should, and have a little upside long term with cheap creatures growing.
My two biggest complaints building a deck around aggro +1/+1 counters is recovering from board wipes, having my threats be viable as late game top decks, interaction with opponents and making my threats efficient when hardened scales type cards are removed.
Renegade Krasis is bad. Its cute, and I play it in a commander deck, but it desperately needs a hardened scales type card in play to be even mediocre. If your board is wiped, its not very good. If you have no scales in play, its not very good. If you draw an experiment one, cackler or other cards and cast them, the evolve wont happen. That is why experiment one is so good, its almost always guaranteed to evolve, and it cost you a G to get a 2/2 usually worst case.
Hardened Scales aggro needs speed, creating cheap but somewhat bulky creatures quickly. It also really likes trample to push through damage is possible.
Take it to FNM and MTGO tournaments. If you start getting success against some tier 2 decks, I might be wrong. But in the modern meta if your paying 3 mana for a creature that does nothing when it enters the battlefield, you better be playing a midrange/control deck or pray your opponent doesnt have removal. Just the reality we face at tournaments.
What hardened scales needs is a Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch that costs 3 mana, a Cytoplast Root-Kin that costs 3 mana. Something immediately changing the board situation. Heck Fanatic of Xenagos I might take instead as a turn 3 that is generally going to be a 5/5 trampler or a 4/4 haste trampler on turn 3.
Greenwheel Liberator has been pretty bad for me. Hard to get revolt consistently, and it hits as a 2/1 too often. If it had deathtouch/trample/flying...anything I keep it in. But playing it over Scavenging Ooze is a no-no to me.
Talking about discussions and what has been discussed before and what not:
I don't know who is in charge of that, but I think it'll be really good if all the comparisons and ideas/bad card choices and reasoning are put in the primer, which is pretty outdated.
It has a playset of Kalonian Tusker in the mainboard, and talks about obsolete decks in the card choice section (Cruise/Dig decks, Splinter Twin, freaking Pod is there as well)
If we could clean up the primer, and have an up-to-date list of card choices, updated splashes and revolt-builds, as well as a 'to be tested' section, than that would help an awful lot and makes these questions (basically) obsolete!
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Ive been testing Renegade Krasis and i do have to say its pretty good. It is a tad slow but it gets out of control if you had the correct start.
I do recomend it to you guys to at least test it out.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Has it been revisited since Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator came out that seem to mesh with this beautifully? If they have revolt they evolve this, which in turn beefs them back.
Yes, its not very good. Sometimes it can't even evolve E1 because its already a 3/3. I rather play Groundbreaker. You often won't be revolting on turn 4/5, and if you do its after combat, so the counters take another turn to matter on the offensive.
Amic, we see each other in the Super Vengevine thread. That deck may make a better shell for this. That deck could often land a Hooting Mandrills T2 - turning that into a t3 fetchdrop Griselbrand should be game over.
However the allure of stompy IMO is the mono color (as well as the budget) however I do see your list as being pretty good and looks fun to play.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Earlier on I said I would post results of a b/g list I was brewing up, but unfortunately I don't have the money to buy what I need right now. It might be a few weeks. So, instead, I just made a few changes to mono-green list and ran it through the friendly modern league on MTGO. Here's the list and the results.
4 elvish mystic
3 wasteland viper
4 strangleroot geist
3 scavenging ooze
2 kalonian tusker
4 predator ooze
4 kitchen finks
2 Nylea, god of the hunt
4 aspect of hydra
3 vines of vastwood
Enchantments:
4 rancor
1 bow of nylea
Lands:
2 treetop village
20 forest
3 ulvenwald tracker
2 warrior's lesson
1 keen sense
2 great stable stag
4 tormod's crypt
1 creeping corrosion
2 reclamation sage
Match 1: r/g Vengevine (2-1)
game 1: L
Opponent takes the play and starts off with a faithless looting, putting one vengevine into his grave. I play a mystic and pass. Opponent plays another filter spell to draw and discard. He then cycles a street wraith and puts two hollowed one into play, reanimating the vengevine and swinging in 4 damage, putting me to 16. I untap and play kitchen finks, putting me to 18 life. Opponent untaps and casts burning-tree emissary into reckless bushwacker and swings for 15 damage. I block the vengevine and go to 8, then back up to 10 life. I untap and play predator ooze, holding back my finks to block. Opponent untaps, hard casts a vengevine and swings 12. I chump vengevine with the ooze and trade finks with burning-tree emissary, putting me to 2 life. I untap, draw nothing helpful, and concede.
Side in - 4 tormod's crypt and 1 ulvenwald tracker
side out - 1 bow of nylea, 1 nylea god of the hunt, 3 vines of the vastwood
Game 2: W
Opponent plays nothing but filter spells on turns 2 and 3. but I have a quick enough start to stick an early predator ooze and kill him with pump spells.
Game 3: W
Opponent plays a turn 1 faithless looting, discarding nothing relevant. I play a wasteland viper and a tormod's crypt. Opponent scoops immediately.
Obviously, wasteland viper is terrifying.
Match 2: u/r Hivemind combo (2-1)
Game 1: L
Opponent takes the play and has zero interaction with me for the first 3 turns. But thanks to a mana seism he is able to cast a turn 4 hive mind and kill me on the spot with pact of the titan.
Combo matchups like this that don't rely on graveyard or a ton of artifacts are pretty much a loss for me. I play through regardless.
Side in: 2 reclamation sage
side out: 1 bow of nylea, 1 nylea god of the hunt
Game 2: W
Once again, opponent has zero interaction with me all game, except this time he is unable to find his combo and I goldfish a turn 4 kill.
Game 3: W
repeat of game 2
Match 3: Grixis death's shadow (2-0)
Game 1: W
I take the play and start with a wasteland viper. Opponent fetches and shocks himself with a watery grave, going down to 17. I untap and play strangleroot geist, swinging for 3 damage. Opponent goes down to 14, then thoughtscours himself. Opponent untaps, fetches and shocks himself down to 11 life, then plays tasigur, the golden fang, leaving one mana up. I untap and play kitchen finks, going up to 22 life, then attack with wasteland strangler. He can't block with tasigur, so he burns a fatal push on the snake. Opponent untaps, casts serum vision, fetches and shocks himself down to 8 life and hits me with inquisition of kozilek, ripping aspect of hydra from my hand. I can't remember what else he did this turn, but I remember he tapped out. I untap, draw a second aspect of hydra, play my fourth land and kitchen finks, then swing out, pumping my unblocked strangelroot geist to 8 and winning the game.
Opponent becomes extremely salty.
This is my 6th or 7th match against death's shadow since I put this deck together almost 2 weeks ago. I have yet to lose this matchup. Feeling very confident.
Side in: 2 great stable stag
side out: 2 aspect of hydra
Game 2: W
Opponent gets off a turn 2 gurmag angler but is stuck on two lands for the majority of the match.
Opponent becomes so salty I can taste it.
I can't remember the exact details of the match, but mostly, he wasted several kill spells and creatures on my strangleroot geists and kitchen finks wearing 2 rancors. Swung through 2 fatal push, a snapcaster, and a death's shadow. The match ended with him tapping out to block my 6/1 kitchen finks with a 7/7 death's shadow and my geist with a surprise snapcaster. Before damage I bloodrushed a wasteland viper onto my finks, essentially making it unblockable, and killing him for exactly 6 damage.
Once again, opponent shows poor sportsmanship. And I revel in destroying his 300$ deck with my 20$ of bull*****.
Match 4: U/g kiora control.
Game 1: L
again, my memory is starting to get a little hazy. I don't remember specifics, but I remember I had an incredibly slow opening hand of only 3 drops. Oppnent bounces and counters every single spell I play until eventually he ultimates kiora, the crashing wave and kills me with 9/9 tokens.
side in: 2 great stable stag
side out: 1 aspect of hydra, 1 nylea god of the hunt
Game 2: W
I start the game with a much faster hand. Oppoenent plays a little ramp and removal but is unable to keep up with my creatures. On turn 4 he taps out for vorapede and I see my opportunity to go for it. I swing in with the crew, he blocks, I blood rush and pump my creature. The combination of trample and deathtouch punches through enough damage to put him to -2 life
Game 3: W
Once again, I have yet another slow hand of only 3 drops. This time though I have vines and great stable stag for protection, so I keep. Opponent finds no ramp this time, but still casts a turn 4 kiora, which locks down my turn 3 predator ooze. I untap and play kitchen finks, then swing with the ooze to get a a +1/+1 counter and pass. He plays a blocker and continues to fog my ooze. Eventually I get enough creatures out to start dealing some damage to him while fending off removal with vines of the vastwood and great stable stag. However, he sets me back 2 turns with aetherize, which gives him enough time to ultimate kiora and tap out once again for vorapede. He has vorapede, two 9/9 tokens, a snapcaster mage, and a rogue refiner, but all I see is my opportunity to go for it. I swing in with just a rancored great stable stag and he is forced to block with only vorapede since the rest of his creatures are blue. I bloodrush a wasteland viper for death touch and cast a HUGE aspect of hydra. The combination of death touch and trample lets me swing through his giant bug, and I deal like 14 damage to him, winning the game.
It's getting pretty late so I'm going to play my last game tomorrow. But, I can already say, vines of the vastwood is pretty great in the mainboard, and protection from colors also feels really good. Great stable stag was really good in that oce fringe situation with kiora control, but the 3/3 body is still weak to lightning bolt and big green blockers. I'm not sure I want to play it at all in the board anymore, since my matchup against death's shadow is so good, but if I do want an anti-black creature, I'm going to pick up chameleon collusus instead. Also, I really wanted a draw spell against the removal heavy decks, but when the time came, it didn't feel safe to run cheap draw that targeted my creatures. So, in the future, I think I'm just going to drop that all together. I was looking through older posts in this thread and was reminded of dismember's existence, so I'm also going to replace ulvenwald tracker with those. Wasteland viper has raised a lot of eyebrows, but considering it won me three games today and ate removal, I'm thinking there might be something good there. Finally, I'm going add in a couple blossoming defense as well for added speed and protection.
For a deck this budget, I have to say. It feels incredibly strong. And I am impressed again and again by it. So far, the only matchups I feel are favored against me are tron, non graveyard combo, soul sisters, and eldrazi and taxes. Everything else I've encountered feels very winnable.
Comments and criticism appreciated!
would love to hear any other tournament reports as well. the more info we have, the better we can tune this green mutha-****er!
And all it asks for is your turn 1. Which I think is super cheap for what it promises. Doesn't insure against board wipes but eh, if you slow roll creatures 2 at a time you'll take down most UWx strategies.
I saw some discussion on Eldritch Evolution. I think the point that EE is bad in Stompy is half true. If you just jam EE into your deck and keep everything else the same, then yea all you'll be doing all day is upsizing your meals. EE like people that provide value on sacrifice, like Young Wolf, Strangleroot, Finks, Matter Reshaper, and if we're splashing, Voice of Resurgence. Honestly if I ran EE in an aggressive shell like this I wouldn't skip on the Voice. After all, voice and strangleroot are the ones that curve before EE. Not to mention, EE a Voice and bring out a Wilt-leaf liege, splicer, or TKS, or Thrun depending on what you need and what you're playing against, totally opens up the mid-late game for this deck. It also makes your sideboard a quiver of silver arrows: Linvala, Thrun, Kataki, Gaddock, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Chameleon Colossus, Thragtusk/Obstinate Baloth, Melira.
The offensive power is no slouch either. Consider this preboard line of play;
t1 Dryad Militant
t2 Voice of Resurgence; beat for 2 with militant
t3 EE the Voice, getting a GW Token; tutor up Wilt-Leaf Liege. (militant is 4/3, token is 5/5) Beat for 9. 13 power on the board.
I know some will say this is moving toward little kid abzan. I suppose it simply attests to the easy upgradability and adaptability of the stompy shell. The deck certainly has a lot to gain by splashing, but of course individuals will have their preferences.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
First of all, I like your use of Wasteland Viper.. really useful with trample from Rancor.
Bolt isn't played much right now.. so the stag can be kept in since he can't be Fatal pushed.. but if you're looking for more power, then Chameleon Colossus is good too.
And just a minor nitpick.. your deck is not 20$ ... because it has 4 finks.
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It's so nice to see the viper getting some love. It's not as aggressive as narnam renegade, but it's more flexible. And I must confess, I've always had a weakness for cards that serve multiple purposes.
I'll keep testing the stag on MTGO to see if how it plays against bolt. But, mainly because chameleon colossus is 20$ a pop. It's only 2$ in real life though, so I may get a set just for funsies.
Kitchen finks on the other hand is just the opposite. It's 2-3$ on MTGO but 20$ in real life. So, technically, I still paid around 20$ for my entire deck. Not to be nitpicky
@amicdeep
That's cool your deck has been doing so well! I really like rhonas and hooting mandrills in your list. I may try to fit those in later
Kitchen finks is an all-star. Especially if you play it on turn two. It makes burn, aggro, and removal heavy decks much easier to play against. The reason I play it over leatherback baloth is mainly because I'm tired of losing to fatal push decks.
Can you point me to the posts where it was tried and discussed after Narnam Renegade, Greenwheel Liberator, and Greenbelt Rampager were introduced to the pool? To the best of my google-fu I couldn't find any discussion of it here from pre-Kaladesh until ccc's mention last week. I understand it was ruled inferior-to-other-options in the pre-Kaladesh time, and with good reason. But these three cards have been used by some flavors of this deck, and I haven't seen a discussion (until the one I'm trying to start and you're trying unusually-hard to stop) of how those flavors might incorporate Renegade Krasis in decks where most of the creatures get counters, and trigger or benefit from revolt and/or evolve.
If there has been a discussion of RK since the Revolt-for-counters cards were introduced, please point me to it (I thought I'd followed this thread pretty closely since then, and this is the first I've seen, and neither the on-board nor off-board search facilities can find any such posts. If there hasn't, please allow it to be discussed rather than go with the "We talked about this before the new cards you're trying to synergize with were introduced, we decreed it inferior, NOW NO MORE TALKING IT IS VERBOTEN" attitude you're hitting me with here.
As a 4-pack, these four look to feed off each other *very* synergistically:
Renegade Krasis
Narnam Renegade
Greenwheel Liberator
Greenbelt Rampager
Rampager can evolve Krasis twice. NRenegade and Lib each evolve base-Krasis if they come in revolted and in turn get re-boosted back. The deck would definitely run the usual counterhappy duo of Avatar of the Resolute and Experiment One (unsure about Strangleroot Geist).
Well, I'm willing to venture it, anyway.
It seems like the krasis could have potential in a +1/+1 counter heavy deck. Maybe even try out hardened scales and servant of the scale or nissa voice of zendikar. If you can't find much discussion here, you may want to try the hardened scales deck discussion instead, since that focusses more on counters.
I come up with wacky ideas all the time and sometimes it's really difficult to get a discussion started on it. When that happens, I just fire up MTGO and test it out to see if it's any good. If you wanna take a run at a league or play several games in the tournament practice area, then you can post your results here once you're done. The prices of cards are usually much cheaper on MTGO, and it's free to download. But more importantly, results will always be more valuable than speculation. If you wanna get krasis noticed, then go see for yourself and tell us what you find!
I caught a lot of flack for running wasteland viper in the first list I posted. But when I showed it won me three games alongside rancor, I managed to convert my first believer
I don't do the MTGO thing. Hate the interface, hate having a 'divided collection', don't especially like a large percentage of online gamers (people tend to be more polite sitting across a real table from you than sitting behind their screens), and when at home my attention or ability to commit unbroken time is often divided (Dad! Daaaaad! Come quick!).
Was thinking of Winding Constrictor as a possibility (I'm likely running fetches to reliably trigger revolts anyway, so I can spare a shallow splash - it also opens the option of a Rakdos Cackler as another always-gets-a-counter-always-evolves-a-1/1-E1 option)
But I totally understand, being a parent makes testing at home difficult I'm sure.
I forget what the exact title of the thread was, but there is 100% a discussion on the topic of winding constrictor + hardened scales in modern. I'm not sure why stompy and g/b snake are separate threads since they're both green based efficient agro decks, but you will likely find what you're looking for there. Either way, I'm really interested to hear your results.
What would a stompy snake list look like for you?
I think the inclusion of black would greatly improve your game against combo
4x Experiment One
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Greenbelt Rampager
4x Greenwheel Liberator
4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Renegade Krasis
8x fetches that include Forests
4x Aether Hub
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Forest
There's one gap there. Not sure if the best fit there is removal (Fatal Push), damage augment (Rancor), more pump+protection (Blossoming Defense), or another counters-matter card like Inspiring Call.
On the contrary, I prefer it was a 3/2 and I'd rather it started 3/1! We want to evolve it and get that tasty trigger. If it started as a 3/3 it wouldn't evolve off an X/3 creature (like Winding Constrictor or a revolted Narnam Renegade).
Either play more green sources or drop it. Otherwise you'll end up mulling more frequently
The best way to use +1/+1 counters in an aggro deck is using fast creatures that can get an immediate boost (basically a permanent Glorious Anthem effect to creatures on the battlefield, even if they remove Hardened Scales.)
With Experiment One, Narnam Renegade, Rakdos Cackler, Strangleroot Geist, Scavenging Ooze, Avatar of the Resolute, Mutant's Prey all become 1 or 2 mana creatures generally going to swing for at least 3/3 in that deck for such a low cost.
The concept is to hit fast and powerful, as aggro should, and have a little upside long term with cheap creatures growing.
My two biggest complaints building a deck around aggro +1/+1 counters is recovering from board wipes, having my threats be viable as late game top decks, interaction with opponents and making my threats efficient when hardened scales type cards are removed.
Renegade Krasis is bad. Its cute, and I play it in a commander deck, but it desperately needs a hardened scales type card in play to be even mediocre. If your board is wiped, its not very good. If you have no scales in play, its not very good. If you draw an experiment one, cackler or other cards and cast them, the evolve wont happen. That is why experiment one is so good, its almost always guaranteed to evolve, and it cost you a G to get a 2/2 usually worst case.
Hardened Scales aggro needs speed, creating cheap but somewhat bulky creatures quickly. It also really likes trample to push through damage is possible.
Take it to FNM and MTGO tournaments. If you start getting success against some tier 2 decks, I might be wrong. But in the modern meta if your paying 3 mana for a creature that does nothing when it enters the battlefield, you better be playing a midrange/control deck or pray your opponent doesnt have removal. Just the reality we face at tournaments.
What hardened scales needs is a Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch that costs 3 mana, a Cytoplast Root-Kin that costs 3 mana. Something immediately changing the board situation. Heck Fanatic of Xenagos I might take instead as a turn 3 that is generally going to be a 5/5 trampler or a 4/4 haste trampler on turn 3.
Nissa, Voice of Resurgence I have found a bit slow and a removal magnet, but I might have to keep testing. Thrill-Kill Assassin might be a very good card if your pushing the Mutant's Prey/Prey Upon angle to get efficient creatures that also can take out your opponents Restoration Angel's and such. Predator Ooze being a good sideboard option if your opponent is not playing path to exile.
Greenwheel Liberator has been pretty bad for me. Hard to get revolt consistently, and it hits as a 2/1 too often. If it had deathtouch/trample/flying...anything I keep it in. But playing it over Scavenging Ooze is a no-no to me.
I don't know who is in charge of that, but I think it'll be really good if all the comparisons and ideas/bad card choices and reasoning are put in the primer, which is pretty outdated.
It has a playset of Kalonian Tusker in the mainboard, and talks about obsolete decks in the card choice section (Cruise/Dig decks, Splinter Twin, freaking Pod is there as well)
If we could clean up the primer, and have an up-to-date list of card choices, updated splashes and revolt-builds, as well as a 'to be tested' section, than that would help an awful lot and makes these questions (basically) obsolete!