Still fiddling with this shell. It's fine against midrange and good vs Valakut and Eldrazi Tron. It's bad vs. Storm but that's the world we live in with a traditional shell.
I have experimented with 4 colour zoo in the past, with varying degrees of relative success, but returning from a hiatus I have decided that I would like to experiment more and more with a 5 colour version. I took a list to my local FNM, with a record of 3-2, losing to tron and Through the Breach, and one of my wins being a less than spectacular showing by my opponent's deck. I think that there is plenty of room in the format for a deck that is trying to chip away at like totals by playing 1 mana 3/3's and 2 mana spells that deal 5 damage, not to mention the ability to play the format's favorite new removal spell, Fatal Push.
Anyway, here is the experimental list that I am rolling with right now, with some substitute options that have been in my head for somewhere in the 75.
I tried to design the mana base to play as much like a Naya dekc in the first 3 turns of the game and then pivot towards trying to play Snapcasters and Tribal Flames for the last points of damage. This is the biggest worry in my head for the deck.
I tested a version that leaned more heavily on black, playing Siege Rhinos and a Tasigur. Tasigur was cut really early because of the competition it has with Snap and Knight, and Siege Rhino was cut very recently because it just didn't do much I found.
I think Renegade Rallier is a really cute addition to the deck as another couple of silver bullets. Being able to pop a Qasali and recur it is just super fun. As is recurring Voices and Snapcasters. I'm just a fan of the card.
Any and all help is appreciated, I think this deck could be something stellar but I know that the more eyes on it the better.
Obviously the power level isn't quite there but has anyone given Adorned Pouncer a go in CoCo Zoo?
It's easier to cast than Mirran Crusader, is a mana dump, and carries exalted triggers and Kessig pumps very well. Double strike and recursion means that it can block half decently.
Well. Boros Swiftblade was in zoo.. way back when. It peeked with Gaea's Might in tribal zoo, I wanna say around time spiral? I bring that up to say it isnt unheard of. Double strike always plays nice with stuff like that, boros charm, rancor and rampager.
I assume Pouncer is slightly swiftblade because it can come back stronger. But the reason why I mirian crusader is powerful is 2 fold. 1, it doesnt die easily, and its only gotten better with push. the second thing is with a sword... its basically the most powerful thing you can do. Which is why its used more in legacy than here.
It's not so much that, it's just that the CoCo Zoo decks don't actually want that many 3 drops -- it can get really cluttered there. I've even found 8 to be an awful lot.
I got a guy with GCR + Boros Charm out of nowhere to end a game, it was great! I think small zoo lists are ideal in combo/tron heavy metas. The zoo pendulum swings heavily with how good Loxodon Smiter is good. If there's a heavy mid-range meta where Smiter is good against the u/x and bg/x decks, then big zoo is better suited. If he's bad, then chances are that small zoo is the ideal zoo version. Although I have found some recent success with the following big zoo list
I'm also playing the following in the board to help with the meta: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Stormbreath Dragon, and Dromoka's Command. The rest are flex spots.
How has Chandra, Torch of Defiance been for you? She seems like she's not as quite as good as Elspeth in a lot of cases -- just given Elspeth's propensity to close the game out in a flash.
Elspeth in my running has always been a "top of curve wins the game card" I mean its basically can read: "4 mana target noble heirach deals 4 damage" at worst and at best "Target 3 drop wins the game for you".
To me, if you are looking for walkers to end the game with a good aggressive early game attached, elspeth is the way to go. But if you are more midrange than aggressive, and I'm talking more like... naya midrange, with things like more 3 drops and most of your one drops are mana dorks, then Chandra could be better as she only gets better the longer the game drags on. Same with Arylnn Kord.
In said naya midranges I've even dropped the number of Nacatls and Goyfs to focus more on mana ramp to hit 4-5 mana threats like walkers and dragons. But I do think if you are a zoo with an aggressive start but just a longer aggression game ala nacatls and top ending at 4 instead of 3, elspeth is likely better.
This is what I've decided to take to my FNM for the time being. I didn't have CoCo at the time when I put it together but I now have 3 and some ralliers as well. So far with the testing I've done I'm really pleased with the results (turn three Thragtusk into resto angel *cough*). I haven't decided on a SB yet because I don't know too much of my meta due to a recent move. Do you guys feel like CoCo zoo would be a better pick overall?
I actually ran a more midrange zoo with angels and trags before to success. You need to have a more aggro meta so you can go over it.
So far I've played against 8 rack, Grixis and Esper DS, Abzan company, titanshift, and this weird R/U aggro brew. But I haven't had a lot of testing against all of them yet. I know there is eldrazi Tron and some other company lists too.
Last Friday I played in a 24 person FNM with a one drop zoo variant, due to my preferred style of play of just rushing down the opponent with great success. I went 4-0 against all tier one or tier 2 decks. Round One: Jeskai Control 2-0, Round Two: Death and Taxes 2-1, Round Three: 5 Color Death Shadow 2-0, Round Four: Jeskai Control 2-1. My apologies as this was quite some time ago so I cannot recall all of the details of the matches, but if you would like to know more details I will do my best to recall the events. I am thinking of dropping Kytheon, Hero of Akros and adding another loam lion and another Ghor-Clan Rampager, simply due to kytheon very rarely transforming in this deck due to the amount of creature destruction in the format.
So I don't see much chatter on the tribal flames/might of alara version of this deck, so I decided to try it out myself and it overperformed. I ended up going 4-0 in a weekly, dropping one game all night. Here's the list:
I'd enjoy any and all feedback on this list. Mostly interested in why people don't play this archetype very much (from what I've seen) as it seems viable.
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Modern: UW, Jeskai, Grixis, Blue moon, Esper, Sultai, UB, UWish
Legacy: Miracles
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/743z4o/vengevine_zoo_recent_mtgo_and_fnm_data/
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Voice of Resurgence
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Woolly Thoctar
2x Thunderbreak Regent
3x Blood Moon
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Ajani Vengeant
Landss: (22)
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Arid Mesa
4x Forest
2x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Ghost Quarter
Still fiddling with this shell. It's fine against midrange and good vs Valakut and Eldrazi Tron. It's bad vs. Storm but that's the world we live in with a traditional shell.
I don't know what the SB should look like.
Maybe a little something like this:
That list looks like it could be so much fun. I had quit because I liked little zoo and it wasn't doing well but I might need to look into this.
Check out the Braverman list from SCG a week ago too.
Anyway, here is the experimental list that I am rolling with right now, with some substitute options that have been in my head for somewhere in the 75.
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Tribal Flames
BOYS:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Renegade Rallier
Cute right? The ideas I have been kicking around look like this:
-1-2 Lightning Helix
+1-2 Boros Charm
and
-1 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Fatal Push
I tried to design the mana base to play as much like a Naya dekc in the first 3 turns of the game and then pivot towards trying to play Snapcasters and Tribal Flames for the last points of damage. This is the biggest worry in my head for the deck.
I tested a version that leaned more heavily on black, playing Siege Rhinos and a Tasigur. Tasigur was cut really early because of the competition it has with Snap and Knight, and Siege Rhino was cut very recently because it just didn't do much I found.
I think Renegade Rallier is a really cute addition to the deck as another couple of silver bullets. Being able to pop a Qasali and recur it is just super fun. As is recurring Voices and Snapcasters. I'm just a fan of the card.
Any and all help is appreciated, I think this deck could be something stellar but I know that the more eyes on it the better.
It's easier to cast than Mirran Crusader, is a mana dump, and carries exalted triggers and Kessig pumps very well. Double strike and recursion means that it can block half decently.
I assume Pouncer is slightly swiftblade because it can come back stronger. But the reason why I mirian crusader is powerful is 2 fold. 1, it doesnt die easily, and its only gotten better with push. the second thing is with a sword... its basically the most powerful thing you can do. Which is why its used more in legacy than here.
Hi, mind sharing the decklist here, thanks.
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
//lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Mountain
I got a guy with GCR + Boros Charm out of nowhere to end a game, it was great! I think small zoo lists are ideal in combo/tron heavy metas. The zoo pendulum swings heavily with how good Loxodon Smiter is good. If there's a heavy mid-range meta where Smiter is good against the u/x and bg/x decks, then big zoo is better suited. If he's bad, then chances are that small zoo is the ideal zoo version. Although I have found some recent success with the following big zoo list
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Collected Company
//lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
I'm also playing the following in the board to help with the meta: Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Stormbreath Dragon, and Dromoka's Command. The rest are flex spots.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
To me, if you are looking for walkers to end the game with a good aggressive early game attached, elspeth is the way to go. But if you are more midrange than aggressive, and I'm talking more like... naya midrange, with things like more 3 drops and most of your one drops are mana dorks, then Chandra could be better as she only gets better the longer the game drags on. Same with Arylnn Kord.
In said naya midranges I've even dropped the number of Nacatls and Goyfs to focus more on mana ramp to hit 4-5 mana threats like walkers and dragons. But I do think if you are a zoo with an aggressive start but just a longer aggression game ala nacatls and top ending at 4 instead of 3, elspeth is likely better.
Need a collection tracker? Use EchoMTG here: https://www.echomtg.com/r/7bb6961d/
Join the Zoo Discord: https://discord.gg/Yu6eTSTrzA
4 Noble Hierarch
4 wild Nacatl
4 wall of roots
2 voice of Resurgence
2 scavenging ooze
4 knight of the Reliquary
2 tireless Tracker
2 restoration angel
2 Thragtusk
1 thundermaw hellkite
4 path to exile
3 lightning helix
4 wooded Foothills
4 windswept Heath
2 arid Mesa
2 sacred Foundry
2 stomping ground
1 temple garden
1 horizon Canopy
1 kessig wolf run
2 forest
2 plains
1 ghost Quarter
This is what I've decided to take to my FNM for the time being. I didn't have CoCo at the time when I put it together but I now have 3 and some ralliers as well. So far with the testing I've done I'm really pleased with the results (turn three Thragtusk into resto angel *cough*). I haven't decided on a SB yet because I don't know too much of my meta due to a recent move. Do you guys feel like CoCo zoo would be a better pick overall?
So far I've played against 8 rack, Grixis and Esper DS, Abzan company, titanshift, and this weird R/U aggro brew. But I haven't had a lot of testing against all of them yet. I know there is eldrazi Tron and some other company lists too.
Last Friday I played in a 24 person FNM with a one drop zoo variant, due to my preferred style of play of just rushing down the opponent with great success. I went 4-0 against all tier one or tier 2 decks. Round One: Jeskai Control 2-0, Round Two: Death and Taxes 2-1, Round Three: 5 Color Death Shadow 2-0, Round Four: Jeskai Control 2-1. My apologies as this was quite some time ago so I cannot recall all of the details of the matches, but if you would like to know more details I will do my best to recall the events. I am thinking of dropping Kytheon, Hero of Akros and adding another loam lion and another Ghor-Clan Rampager, simply due to kytheon very rarely transforming in this deck due to the amount of creature destruction in the format.
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
1 Forest
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Goblin Guide
4 Kird Ape
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Loam Lion
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Destructive Revelry
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
Thanks for reading!
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
3x Hazoret the Fervent
3x Domri Rade
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Windswept Heath
2x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Raging Ravine
1x Declaration in Stone
2x Eidolon of Rhetoric
3x Blood Moon
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Dromoka's Command
2x Stony Silence
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Fracturing Gust
Hazoret has been stone-cold dirty against DS. That and a cool combo with Domri Rade makes other "fair" green decks sad.
Deck is a tad faster than company. Valakut is still a huge bummer.
4 monastery swiftspear
4 death's shadow
4 wild nacatl
3 goblin guide
4 street wraith
4 tribal flames
4 lightning bolt
4 might of alara
3 mutagenic growth
2 rancor
2 boros charm
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 verdant catacombs
1 windswept heath
1 arid mesa
1 temple garden
1 blood crypt
1 sacred foundry
1 overgrown tomb
1 steam vents
1 breeding pool
SB:
1 thoughtseize
1 fatal push
1 path to exile
1 grim lavamancer
2 temur battle rage
2 stony silence
1 ancient grudge
1 dismember
2 lingering souls
1 tasigur, the golden fang
1 forest
I'd enjoy any and all feedback on this list. Mostly interested in why people don't play this archetype very much (from what I've seen) as it seems viable.
Modern: UW, Jeskai, Grixis, Blue moon, Esper, Sultai, UB, UWish
Legacy: Miracles