MTG Salvation

Stream it Donny!! If I can find 4 ancestral I'll play it tonight!!

While the new take on esper is interesting, I feel like it has a couple fundamental problems that are essentially not solvable.
You are basically playing a UWR deck. You're interested in a lot of the same cards, but you lose the ability to end games in the same fashion.
The problem with just playing UWR, of course, is that push is a lot better than bolt in the meta, and esper charm is essentially irreplaceable.

If it was feasible, playing a sort of UWR draw-go deck with a similar set up (lots of card draw, a set of cryptics, a lot of wraths, etc).
Because of the weakness of bolt in the meta right now, playing 4 colors is essentially pointless, but objectively, I feel like this deck would gain a lot of if it could work with bolts + helixes + 4 snaps. Not quite as draw-go-y, but likely better for it.

More on topic though, do you feel like secure is the best finisher? Being instant speed is obviously nice, but since we're less concerned about land drops (and we have serum visions), playing a cheaper threat (even at sorcery speed) could let us benefit a lot. It would also free up night of souls betrayal in the board (potentially), which, IMO, is a preferable card to jace.
IMO, tasigur or lingering souls are too low impact, but gideon (any of them, really), elspeth, gearhulk, Obzedat, DLO, hell, even kefnet?

I've got all of the cards, I think, so I'll probably try it, or something similar, one of these days.


Siding out lands is fine. I side out either ghost quarters or colonnades reasonably often. Usually only one (going down to 25 lands) but its not too out there.

I know primer has a SB guide, but are there any "rule of thumb" you guys take to building your SB?

I have about 20-25 cards I vary between, and I'm trying to work out to hedge my bad MUs (dredge, Affinity, Tron) without giving ground on my grindy matches (Mirror, GBx, Eldrazi) and without forgetting the combo decks (Storm, Ad Naus, Scapeshift).

I'm at this right now

3 runed halo
2 leyline of the void
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to exile (3 MB)
2 crumble to dust
1 wrath of god (4 total wraths)
2 extirpate
2 Gideon Jura
1 baneslayer angel

Maybe Lose BSA for RiP?? Not sure.

Quote from kodieyost »

I know primer has a SB guide, but are there any "rule of thumb" you guys take to building your SB?

I have about 20-25 cards I vary between, and I'm trying to work out to hedge my bad MUs (dredge, Affinity, Tron) without giving ground on my grindy matches (Mirror, GBx, Eldrazi) and without forgetting the combo decks (Storm, Ad Naus, Scapeshift).

I'm at this right now

3 runed halo
2 leyline of the void
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to exile (3 MB)
2 crumble to dust
1 wrath of god (4 total wraths)
2 extirpate
2 Gideon Jura
1 baneslayer angel

Maybe Lose BSA for RiP?? Not sure.

I always want a Dispel, permanent removal (typically Purge but Sphere or Unmaking work, too), a 4th sweeper, and at least one more cheap removal spell. Once I've got those, I make a list of all decks over 2% in the meta and list what cards from my list I would cut and bring in based on the meta. Once I've got my 8-11 floater cards that work in the most matchups possible, I've got my board.

Edit- this is to say that I choose heavy hitters against every deck over 2%. I don't really look at slight upgrades when I'm making this list, more of a "NoSB freaking destroys Affinity, Soul Sisters, Tokens, etc, based on the decks in the meta."

I can honestly say that reading and participating in this thread, have made me a much better player/esper pilot. This thread is awesome.

On the new list Donny and SES are working on, did you feel like you just didn't use your mana as often? So often I don't care about what my opponent is doing, so the TT or EC at EOT is essentially free. Feels like w/ sorc draw, you would just have so much unused mana...

Well that is a concern but usually you have a counter or removal to play so your mana is gonna be taxed in some way. Just not having to sink 5+mana to get advantage is a real good thing when playing vs dispel/begs heavy decks also stubborn denial is a thing again in the new 4c death shadow lists so we need to be mana efficient as **** and low to the ground to have a shot

I haven't had Shadow issues. BGx decks feel like an easy matchup if they don't have absolute nuts.


My Counter suite currently is:

4 cryptic command
3 logic Knot
2 negate
1 spell snare

Removal suite:

4 fatal push
3 Path to exile
3 supreme verdict

I searched through the thread but couldn't find anything on Lost Legacy. Has anybody thought about running this in the sideboard with there being such a prevalence of combo decks?

Quote from kodieyost »

I know primer has a SB guide, but are there any "rule of thumb" you guys take to building your SB?

I have about 20-25 cards I vary between, and I'm trying to work out to hedge my bad MUs (dredge, Affinity, Tron) without giving ground on my grindy matches (Mirror, GBx, Eldrazi) and without forgetting the combo decks (Storm, Ad Naus, Scapeshift).

I'm at this right now

3 runed halo
2 leyline of the void
1 Rest In Peace
1 Path to exile (3 MB)
2 crumble to dust
1 wrath of god (4 total wraths)
2 extirpate
2 Gideon Jura
1 baneslayer angel

Maybe Lose BSA for RiP?? Not sure.

I choose packages against decks that I feel most comfortable with, and have developed a sense of what cards I would never cut. Then I alter the flex slots for meta expectations. For example, here's the core of my sideboard that pretty much never changes:



So, I guess I'll explain my logic behind these choices: I always feel like the deck is light on counterspells, especially in control mirrors, so I include at least 2 Negates in the 75 (oftentimes 3). In addition, I like to play some Dispels so I can trump the opponent's own counters (also hitting Logic Knot, which Spell Snare doesn't do). The same Dispels also efficiently hit Chord/Company, which is a strict upgrade from Negate because Negate usually only hits those 2 cards in the matchup anyways. Moving on, I always play the 3rd Push in the board for BGx matchups, Merfolk, Affinity (hitting manlands is important), Burn, etc. Then, I also play 2 Halos and 2 Alliances because they answer the type of threat that Push doesn't with plenty of overlap in other matchups. Thus, both are great against Eldrazi, while each has its uses against Burn, Valakut, AdNaus, etc. This just leaves Purge, which is there as an answer to Blood Moon/Keranos while also being useful against BGx/Nahiri/Skred/Burn/etc, and Elspeth, which is there for trumping decks that can't beat it and for bringing in when I feel like I need more wincons (for example, against Thought-Knot Seer decks).

The other cards I add are just depending on what I want to have access to. I always welcome a 2nd Purge, but other cards that slip in are Gideon Jura, Engineered Explosives, Wrath of God, Lingering Souls (yes, I do use that in the sideboard sometimes), Disenchant/Stony Silence, Vendilion Clique, etc. It just depends on the meta I'm expecting.

Naming what? I used to play memoricide in the MB for my UB control deck in Zendikar, I think 2 SB could be useful. Naming what in what MUs though?

Quote from kodieyost »

Naming what? I used to play memoricide in the MB for my UB control deck in Zendikar, I think 2 SB could be useful. Naming what in what MUs though?

I was thinking along the lines of 2 sideboard if anything.

Naming: Ad Nauseum/Lightning Storm, Gifts Ungiven/Past in Flames, Living End, Vizier of Remedies, Bloodghast?, Prime Time, Scapeshift, Emrakul/Through the Breach? Not sure how effective it would be, was just wondering if anybody had tested it/had any experience playing it

Logic knot has a CBC of 2 anywhere but on the stack which is is 2+ x so spell snare does nothing.

It's solid against a lot of the decks in the format, I know we moved away from it with DShadow and Eldrazi being big, but I have never been upset to see the one copy in an opening grip.

2 Negate is fine for me also, but I'm very built for creature removal so it's basically to stop them from getting back into the game with Coco or a walker.

Can we go back to the dredge MU though?

Like game 1, what part of their plan do you guys have the most success attacking?

Quote from kodieyost »

It's solid against a lot of the decks in the format, I know we moved away from it with DShadow and Eldrazi being big, but I have never been upset to see the one copy in an opening grip.

2 Negate is fine for me also, but I'm very built for creature removal so it's basically to stop them from getting back into the game with Coco or a walker.

Can we go back to the dredge MU though?

Like game 1, what part of their plan do you guys have the most success attacking?

Like "none" ?

Even by countering the first cathartic, I find this near unwinnable game 1.

I just played ad nauseam and I did not expect to see two copies of dragonlord dromoka post board. Is this a frequent tech on their side ? Hopefully I already had extracted ad nauseam and I managed to stick a baneslayer angel (I might be wrong but I am so desperate for a clock in this MU that anything is welcome) while he did not board in slaughter pact. Explosives covered the ancillary maniac combo.

Won 2-1 but that was scary (game one unwinnable because I had a removal heavy hand and he had the turn 4, game 2 as above and game 3 I bounced boseiju several times to get there with snappy's and a last colonnade hit. Probably lucky that it ended that way...).

How are you doing at Copenhagen @artvi? Also did you see Wafo?