I have been in a real slump lately with regard to Modern and decided to pick up my first ever Modern deck again (Mono-White ProcMartyr), haven't touched it in years. Been brewing whole week and testing with a buddy of mine, and I have come to a list I like and which I think is fast enough for me. I went with GW for Trace of Abundance which is a white ramp spell that allows turn 3 Wrath of God and Ranger of Eos. This also allowed me access to Ajani, Mentor of Heroes which has been phenomenal. It so often digs for a Ranger or Ascendant, or just buffs the Hawks and Ascendants. My sideboard is completely crazy and all over the place and haven't singled it down to a set 15 yet, so I won't post it - Need to test against other players and in tournaments for this.
Trace of abundance is really interesting. The turn 3 ranger seems to be the main appeal to it in my opinion. Once in a while I'll drop a game by 1 turn because my ranger was a turn late. Ajani seems odd because of how slow the deck is, mostly though its that the 4 mana elspeth what he does for less mana. Gets creature, pumps creature. Her pump gives evasion, but isn't permanent, her 1/1 is worse than a creature from your deck, but it can't wiff. She also has a 3rd ability which can seal any game up. My main concern with the list is that you only have 3 recursion cards in the whole deck (1 emeria 2 proc). Seems low to me. Without recursion you lose a lot of percentage points versus many matchups. Swapping the figure out for a wayfinder would help that out a little.
Trace of abundance is really interesting. The turn 3 ranger seems to be the main appeal to it in my opinion. Once in a while I'll drop a game by 1 turn because my ranger was a turn late. Ajani seems odd because of how slow the deck is, mostly though its that the 4 mana elspeth what he does for less mana. Gets creature, pumps creature. Her pump gives evasion, but isn't permanent, her 1/1 is worse than a creature from your deck, but it can't wiff. She also has a 3rd ability which can seal any game up. My main concern with the list is that you only have 3 recursion cards in the whole deck (1 emeria 2 proc). Seems low to me. Without recursion you lose a lot of percentage points versus many matchups. Swapping the figure out for a wayfinder would help that out a little.
@Vulpix13 I'd do both, but if you only want one 2nd emeria is probably better. Kami is awesome in my experience. I wouldn't do a wishboard without 4wish.
@Spawn: Yes.
I finally made a sun titan list for the people who were asking for it. I ran it through two 8-mans. The first one was 1-1 (beat delver lost to skred), the second 8-man I 3-0'd beating zoo, scapeshift and 5 color midrange in that order.
Here is the list if anyone wants it. I think the orzhov list in the main post is better, but if you like sun titan, this is a reasonable starting place.
I am not sure if the sample size is just small or what but over the last several games its just storm and ascendancy over and over and it seems they just always nut draw and win even through disruption... even Kiki pod just plays their cards and there is minimal disruption from our side before they get going.
Having one interaction card is always answered by a simple echoing truth and they can just combo through it, is this something you have noticed at all while playing recently?
I have a low sample size from this week (11 matches). I have faced ascendancy two times which is high comparatively. In the storm/ascendancy/Ad Nauseam I've found that the most effective way to win is with castigate, and going aggressive. I've gone back and forth on playing sin collector/tidehollow in addition to castigates (or maybe even thoughtseize/inquisition). Ultimately I never did before due to it being a low percentage of the metagame. If this trend continues I will probably add some number of sin collectors to the sideboard. Sin collector is probably better than skuller due to it keeping their card forever, even if it cannot hit the enchantments. Speaking of enchantments, these combo decks rely on enchantments a lot of the time. Going up on disenchants will probably also help. Today I was running rule of laws due to their ability to hinder cantripping into a wear//tear. Overall I think that more discard would be more effective.
On the old thread some people were running Stain the mind (I think that memoricide might be better due to low creature counts and ideally casting a discard spell on turn 2, but I haven't tested either). This type of effect seems pretty strong versus combo.
I've faced kikipod very very few times. I think I win more often than I lose there, but I would have to go count to be sure.
EDIT: I did a quick ctrl+f on my spreadsheet and it looks like I'm 2-0 vs kiki pod. I don't remember how those matches played out, but I think I remember getting killed through disruption in one game where they stole my prison with the last zealous conscripts after killing my BO with a creature.
Round one was versus Boggles. Game 1 he beat me by Voltronning up. Game 2, I got the whole engine online, and was recurring Kami of False Hope forever. He drew himself to death. Unfortunately, I ended up taking too much time stacking Emeria triggers, and lost on time.
Round two was Pod. I had a reasonably loose keep in game one, and paid for it. In game two, I managed to double strip-mine himself by playing Flagstone + Ghost Quarter right into an Aven Mindcensor, at which point he went and Melira-combo'd me out.
I'm still learning the tricks of this deck, but it is really fun, and I'm definitely going to build it in paper, too. I can see how the Orzhov version is better- but that's mostly because being able to run 8 instant speed removal spells is much better than just relying on Path and O-ring. Add in the utility of Orzhov Charm, and you get a deck that I feel would be more robust.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
vs boggles you have to click VERY fast. I often deck them 2 times a match. I might as well share my MTGO stops now. I have a stop on my upkeep, both my main phases, and my attack and block steps. On my opponents turn I have them only on their attack, block and end steps. If I need to stop in my opponents upkeep or my end step I add them temporarily.
If we could run like 6 castigate in the board I am sure that none of these combo decks would be an issue, the games where I do actually draw that card its just pure gas, I did up my disenchant to 2 and celestial purge also happens to hit most if not all of the problem cards too.
Would it be worth considering cutting the 4th wrath from the board for a hallowed burial to increase overall numbers against pod post board, in my experience they often cannot recover from burial but I have had games where a wrath just persisted 2 creatures and gave them a voice token which was of course sub optimal
Well to the guys getting overwhelmed, I play Porphyry Nodes in my enchantment deck. It may be worth a try in M/Proc I dunno, but a second or third turn nodes, really puts pressure on your opponent, especially if they have mana dorks.
@ Jebas
You mention disenchant, but Aura of Silence is surely the better option for a board? Yes, it costs more. Yes, there will be times when the enemy deck just goes off on t2 before silence is online. But if the Aura comes down.....
(a) the key enchantment costs more to cast
and
(b) when they do they can be disenchanted without ever needing to keep mana back- no tapping out fear.
Then considering other matches, Aura is better vs boggles by a mile (making rancor, ethereal etc. cost 3 slows them to a crawl even more than prison, and in combination they buy a long time to get the Kami going)
Aura is great vs tron if you can get an early GQ to keep them off t3 tron. Mana washers and maps cost 3, prisms 4, O stones 5, Wurmcoil 8 with Aura down. Mono U tron is also artifact heavy. If we can disrupt Tron with GQ that extra mana hurts. I am not sure I would even board in a disenchant vs RG Tron. Its not as good as Stony Silence v tron, but it is surely better than a disenchant.
Aura is also > disenchant vs affinity unless they get the nuts. Wrath to reset the board with an Aura down= probably GG, and that is even without a Stony Silence.
Decks you don't associate with artifacts/enchantments, like BW tokens are chock full of enchantments, and making o-ring cost 5, sculler and global pumps 4 is very strong.
I had tested with aura of silence but against decks like twin it has the same problem as ghostly prison if it is your only 'disruption' card and that problem is echoing truth still just returns it EOT and makes it dead
The extra cost of 1WW instead of 1W does have an impact in some games as well, I think that it may just be a situation of a 55/45 or closer matchup that is just draw dependent and just hope to play more delver and burn decks all day instead. I will be at GP Omaha with this deck and will keep at least a rough report of the rounds... if I make a deep run I will post a tournament report
I get what you are saying. The key is to mix both types of disruption. I would not fancy tapping out for a ranger turn four v twin if disenchant was my only disruption. That said v twin you have four ghostlies and path. I run a skite as well. C purge can hit a lot of twin stuff if you run it.
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I finally put my paper mono white version together. I played a few rounds with a friend who has a mono green genesis wave deck and things went well. What's nice about going against mono green is you actually can afford to play turn 1 Serra Ascendant and swing on turn 2, this is because we don't have to worry about Lightning Bolt or anything like that. I am running 24 lands, and I might go up to 25, this is a deck where we really want to hit our lands drops.
The deck has a great late game presence and Kami of the False Hope is overperforming. The Genesis Wave match up is sometimes difficult because Chancellor of the Tangle has reach and this deck at times can have trouble dealing with planeswalkers.
I also spent a few games playing against Grixis Cruel control which wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I found myself hard casting Proclamation of Rebirth much more frequently than DemannicTheOrc.
My list is pretty much the mono white list DemannicTheOrc has in the original post, but I am running Radiant Fountain, and a single Godsend. I'll post the full list sometime later after some more testing.
Mono Blue Tron is very annoying. I'll have to consider jamming some Stony Silences into the board because how much I hate being Mindslaver locked.
EDIT:
Now that the Daily event is over, I think I'll give it a recap. I went 3-1.
Round 1: I was up against Elves, running Cloudstone Curio. Game 1 he combo'd off while I had two land and beat my face in with 2 11/11+ creatures. Game two, on the draw, I played a turn 1 Martyr. Turn 2, I sacrificed it, and proceeded to play Serra Ascendant. Turn 3 I play another Martyr, swing in with the Ascendant, and sac the second Martyr. Turn 3 he combos off, but he doesn't have enough untapped hasty creatures to kill me when my life is as high as it was at that point (about 45). Because he'd Summoner's Pact'd into a Craterhoof that turn, I took the damage, passed turn, and cast Wrath of God while he was on 3 land. Game 3 was much the same- he combo'd off on 3 land and cast a Regal Force he found with Summoner's Pact. I cast Linvala and passed turn.
Round 2: This was up against an odd Delver deck, running Blistercoil Weird as well as Monastery Swiftspear, and Mutagenic Growth. I guess he figured that more of a good thing was a good thing? I was able to life-gain up and smash face during the last two matches, having had to mulligan to 4 in gane 1.
Round 3: Monoblue Tron. Game 1 he Mindslaver locks me early and I concede. Game 2 is a bit different- he doesn't managed to SlaverLock me early, and I'd gotten pretty much all of my recursion online (which I was a bit urgent to get too- since I knew my opponent wasn't the beatdown in the matchup, I'd cast Squadron Hawks and then Path them to get up to enough Plains to activate Emeria, which was funny, because he started Repealing my Hawks in response to my Paths). After casting double Dig Through Time he hits into Academy Ruins and Mindslaver. Partly out of spite and partly because the clock was in my favour I didn't concede, however, he beat me with 4 minutes left with a Wurmcoil equipped with a Batterskull. New lesson learned: never concede to the Slaverlock online, because it takes up valuable time on their part, and a win's a win.
Round 4: Round 4, I got paired up against Burn. I took a bunch of hits early on in game 1, but made up for it by resolving and saccing two Martyrs; he conceded once I put a Serra Ascendant into play. Game two he beat me with a gotcha- he Ghor-Clan Rampager'd a Goblin Guide, then Become Immense'd it, and then Gutshot me for my final point of life. Game 3, I lead with a turn 1 Ascendant, drop another on turn 2, and he just scoops when I play Ranger of Eos on curve.
If any of you are up I'm going to stream some game play in a modern daily right now. No mic, but I'll be typing to the chat. Check my signature for the link,
Played mono w in a paper pptq. Went 3 w, 2 d,1 l. was twenty seconds from winning the one of the draws and turning the solitary defeat into a draw. My games and scores I report below, my list and feelings I will wait till tomorrow.
I went 1-1 with RUG twin. I had the win next turn, and could have gone for it by popping Aura earlier, leaving me exposed to a potential defeat.
I beat Living end 2-0, easily.
I beat four colour gifts with a combo tastic Iona game 2. 2-0.
I beat Rug twin 1-0, going to one life game 2 but coming back to thirty and was set for 2-0 when time was called.
I lost 1-0 to scapeshift. He was on four life with four martyrs, and had to nature claim his enchantment and cryptic, both off the top, to not die. He was a friend so I corrected a misplay of his game two to give him an extra card he would have missed.
I drew 1-1 with twin, perhaps having made a mistake game 1, winning in turns game two having hid behind Aura, Halo and prison plus recursive Kami.
I never saw Prison game 1 v any twin, making them wonder just how much hate I managed to bring in game two.
Skite was great. Wheel was good. Aura of Silence was superb. I missed every aggro deck in the room, always sat next to affinity, zoo and hatebears. More tomorrow.
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2 Arid Mesa
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Forest
2 Mistveil Plains
9 Plains
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Ranger of Eos
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Trace of Abundance
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Path to Exile
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Wrath of God
Walkers:
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
I have noticed in some matchups that I have struggled to get a recursion engine going, but there is also a ton of matchups that it doesnt matter cause the 3rd turn Ranger just takes over. I have considered a 2nd Emeria. Would you rather play the Weathered Wayfarer than a 2nd Emeria. I have not had the best experience with the wayfarer, I might be doing something incorrect though. I do agree that the Figure of Destiny is a bit unnecessary, thought of trying a single Kami of False Hope or a Singleton Glittering Wish. Possible Wishboard targets are Immortal Servitude, Loxodon Hierarch, Mystic Enforcer, Figure of Destiny, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Fracturing Gust.
For example, I've learned some important things with regards to the Pod matchup- DON'T USE PATH TO EXILE ON ANYTHING THAT WON'T IMMEDIATELY KILL YOU
@Spawn: Yes.
I finally made a sun titan list for the people who were asking for it. I ran it through two 8-mans. The first one was 1-1 (beat delver lost to skred), the second 8-man I 3-0'd beating zoo, scapeshift and 5 color midrange in that order.
Here is the list if anyone wants it. I think the orzhov list in the main post is better, but if you like sun titan, this is a reasonable starting place.
7 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Godless Shrine
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
NONLANDS:
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Ranger of Eos
3 Path to Exile
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Orzhov Charm
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Wrath of God
1 Necrotic Sliver
2 Sun Titan
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Patrician's Scorn
4 Castigate
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Wrath of God
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Aura of Silence
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Having one interaction card is always answered by a simple echoing truth and they can just combo through it, is this something you have noticed at all while playing recently?
On the old thread some people were running Stain the mind (I think that memoricide might be better due to low creature counts and ideally casting a discard spell on turn 2, but I haven't tested either). This type of effect seems pretty strong versus combo.
I've faced kikipod very very few times. I think I win more often than I lose there, but I would have to go count to be sure.
EDIT: I did a quick ctrl+f on my spreadsheet and it looks like I'm 2-0 vs kiki pod. I don't remember how those matches played out, but I think I remember getting killed through disruption in one game where they stole my prison with the last zealous conscripts after killing my BO with a creature.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
I beefed a daily.
Round one was versus Boggles. Game 1 he beat me by Voltronning up. Game 2, I got the whole engine online, and was recurring Kami of False Hope forever. He drew himself to death. Unfortunately, I ended up taking too much time stacking Emeria triggers, and lost on time.
Round two was Pod. I had a reasonably loose keep in game one, and paid for it. In game two, I managed to double strip-mine himself by playing Flagstone + Ghost Quarter right into an Aven Mindcensor, at which point he went and Melira-combo'd me out.
I'm still learning the tricks of this deck, but it is really fun, and I'm definitely going to build it in paper, too. I can see how the Orzhov version is better- but that's mostly because being able to run 8 instant speed removal spells is much better than just relying on Path and O-ring. Add in the utility of Orzhov Charm, and you get a deck that I feel would be more robust.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
Would it be worth considering cutting the 4th wrath from the board for a hallowed burial to increase overall numbers against pod post board, in my experience they often cannot recover from burial but I have had games where a wrath just persisted 2 creatures and gave them a voice token which was of course sub optimal
You mention disenchant, but Aura of Silence is surely the better option for a board? Yes, it costs more. Yes, there will be times when the enemy deck just goes off on t2 before silence is online. But if the Aura comes down.....
(a) the key enchantment costs more to cast
and
(b) when they do they can be disenchanted without ever needing to keep mana back- no tapping out fear.
Then considering other matches, Aura is better vs boggles by a mile (making rancor, ethereal etc. cost 3 slows them to a crawl even more than prison, and in combination they buy a long time to get the Kami going)
Aura is great vs tron if you can get an early GQ to keep them off t3 tron. Mana washers and maps cost 3, prisms 4, O stones 5, Wurmcoil 8 with Aura down. Mono U tron is also artifact heavy. If we can disrupt Tron with GQ that extra mana hurts. I am not sure I would even board in a disenchant vs RG Tron. Its not as good as Stony Silence v tron, but it is surely better than a disenchant.
Aura is also > disenchant vs affinity unless they get the nuts. Wrath to reset the board with an Aura down= probably GG, and that is even without a Stony Silence.
Decks you don't associate with artifacts/enchantments, like BW tokens are chock full of enchantments, and making o-ring cost 5, sculler and global pumps 4 is very strong.
The extra cost of 1WW instead of 1W does have an impact in some games as well, I think that it may just be a situation of a 55/45 or closer matchup that is just draw dependent and just hope to play more delver and burn decks all day instead. I will be at GP Omaha with this deck and will keep at least a rough report of the rounds... if I make a deep run I will post a tournament report
The deck has a great late game presence and Kami of the False Hope is overperforming. The Genesis Wave match up is sometimes difficult because Chancellor of the Tangle has reach and this deck at times can have trouble dealing with planeswalkers.
I also spent a few games playing against Grixis Cruel control which wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I found myself hard casting Proclamation of Rebirth much more frequently than DemannicTheOrc.
My list is pretty much the mono white list DemannicTheOrc has in the original post, but I am running Radiant Fountain, and a single Godsend. I'll post the full list sometime later after some more testing.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
EDIT:
Now that the Daily event is over, I think I'll give it a recap. I went 3-1.
Round 1: I was up against Elves, running Cloudstone Curio. Game 1 he combo'd off while I had two land and beat my face in with 2 11/11+ creatures. Game two, on the draw, I played a turn 1 Martyr. Turn 2, I sacrificed it, and proceeded to play Serra Ascendant. Turn 3 I play another Martyr, swing in with the Ascendant, and sac the second Martyr. Turn 3 he combos off, but he doesn't have enough untapped hasty creatures to kill me when my life is as high as it was at that point (about 45). Because he'd Summoner's Pact'd into a Craterhoof that turn, I took the damage, passed turn, and cast Wrath of God while he was on 3 land. Game 3 was much the same- he combo'd off on 3 land and cast a Regal Force he found with Summoner's Pact. I cast Linvala and passed turn.
Round 2: This was up against an odd Delver deck, running Blistercoil Weird as well as Monastery Swiftspear, and Mutagenic Growth. I guess he figured that more of a good thing was a good thing? I was able to life-gain up and smash face during the last two matches, having had to mulligan to 4 in gane 1.
Round 3: Monoblue Tron. Game 1 he Mindslaver locks me early and I concede. Game 2 is a bit different- he doesn't managed to SlaverLock me early, and I'd gotten pretty much all of my recursion online (which I was a bit urgent to get too- since I knew my opponent wasn't the beatdown in the matchup, I'd cast Squadron Hawks and then Path them to get up to enough Plains to activate Emeria, which was funny, because he started Repealing my Hawks in response to my Paths). After casting double Dig Through Time he hits into Academy Ruins and Mindslaver. Partly out of spite and partly because the clock was in my favour I didn't concede, however, he beat me with 4 minutes left with a Wurmcoil equipped with a Batterskull. New lesson learned: never concede to the Slaverlock online, because it takes up valuable time on their part, and a win's a win.
Round 4: Round 4, I got paired up against Burn. I took a bunch of hits early on in game 1, but made up for it by resolving and saccing two Martyrs; he conceded once I put a Serra Ascendant into play. Game two he beat me with a gotcha- he Ghor-Clan Rampager'd a Goblin Guide, then Become Immense'd it, and then Gutshot me for my final point of life. Game 3, I lead with a turn 1 Ascendant, drop another on turn 2, and he just scoops when I play Ranger of Eos on curve.
Modern: MartyrProc (Control/Prison) Check out my Primer!
Commander: Karador
Pauper: Ub Reanimator
Legacy: Young Frankenstein/Dredge/The Spanish Inquisition
Casual: 5Color Zendikar Combo
MartyrProc
Daily Digest
MartyrProc. List citation is incorrect.
tWoo Brew off
twitter: @Dave_Cordeiro
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheBizarroDavid
I went 1-1 with RUG twin. I had the win next turn, and could have gone for it by popping Aura earlier, leaving me exposed to a potential defeat.
I beat Living end 2-0, easily.
I beat four colour gifts with a combo tastic Iona game 2. 2-0.
I beat Rug twin 1-0, going to one life game 2 but coming back to thirty and was set for 2-0 when time was called.
I lost 1-0 to scapeshift. He was on four life with four martyrs, and had to nature claim his enchantment and cryptic, both off the top, to not die. He was a friend so I corrected a misplay of his game two to give him an extra card he would have missed.
I drew 1-1 with twin, perhaps having made a mistake game 1, winning in turns game two having hid behind Aura, Halo and prison plus recursive Kami.
I never saw Prison game 1 v any twin, making them wonder just how much hate I managed to bring in game two.
Skite was great. Wheel was good. Aura of Silence was superb. I missed every aggro deck in the room, always sat next to affinity, zoo and hatebears. More tomorrow.