Nice looking list, but I am not sure if you want Vault of the Archangel. It doesn't really fit into our game plan and, at least in my experience, rarely helps to stabilize the board.
If you could try and post your list in these forums, most people won't click though to see your list on other sites.
Updated thread with "Little Kid" name. Any other names you that this deck goes by?
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Noble Hierarch is amazing. I understand the need for black mana, but at least go 3 Birds and 3 Hierarchs.
TBQH it is partly due to budget constraints. I borrow/proxy the Hierarchs when I can and when I can't there are two Avacyn's Pilgrim in those slots because I like having more than 4 dorks (which do an alright job of fixing considering you have Green mana anyways and we have so much hybrid). But also, since I'm using Foothills instead of Catacombs, I can't fetch basic swamp, which means I really need easy black mana. So 4 birds. It's possible even with Verdant Catacombs I still want more birds so I can more painlessly do things like flashback souls + abrupt decay, but I'll readily admit my setup isn't optimal. Dragons of Tarkir and MM2015 soon pls.
So that said, that Urborg is looking pretty nice. I may want to try that out. But I was meaning to ask you about the manabase, how are you liking the 3 Sunpetal Groves? I run 2 Thicket and 1 Grove and I still have that one Grove show up in awkward opening hands like bird, 2-drop, 3-drop, grove, gavony, bird. Super awkward to the point where I can't imagine running 3.
As for names, I think the official PT stream used "Wilted Abzan," which I am partial to. Then again I hate "Little Kid Abzan" as a name so I'm biased. <_<
Nice looking list, but I am not sure if you want Vault of the Archangel. It doesn't really fit into our game plan and, at least in my experience, rarely helps to stabilize the board.
If you could try and post your list in these forums, most people won't click though to see your list on other sites.
Updated thread with "Little Kid" name. Any other names you that this deck goes by?
Vault is a nod to Burn MD outside of the 3 Finks, 4 Rhinos. It allows you to trade spirits with anything and push through damage in a standoff. Yes, I prefer it to a 3rd Gavony all day long.
Nice looking list, but I am not sure if you want Vault of the Archangel. It doesn't really fit into our game plan and, at least in my experience, rarely helps to stabilize the board.
If you could try and post your list in these forums, most people won't click though to see your list on other sites.
Updated thread with "Little Kid" name. Any other names you that this deck goes by?
Vault is a nod to Burn MD outside of the 3 Finks, 4 Rhinos. It allows you to trade spirits with anything and push through damage in a standoff. Yes, I prefer it to a 3rd Gavony all day long.
Has it tested well? I understand the theory of it, and had it in a some of my other token decks, but just found the 5 mana activation was hard to obtain. However, in those decks I didn't have mana dorks, so maybe that makes the difference. Post your results, I am curious how the list does!
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Nice looking list, but I am not sure if you want Vault of the Archangel. It doesn't really fit into our game plan and, at least in my experience, rarely helps to stabilize the board.
If you could try and post your list in these forums, most people won't click though to see your list on other sites.
Updated thread with "Little Kid" name. Any other names you that this deck goes by?
Vault is a nod to Burn MD outside of the 3 Finks, 4 Rhinos. It allows you to trade spirits with anything and push through damage in a standoff. Yes, I prefer it to a 3rd Gavony all day long.
Has it tested well? I understand the theory of it, and had it in a some of my other token decks, but just found the 5 mana activation was hard to obtain. However, in those decks I didn't have mana dorks, so maybe that makes the difference. Post your results, I am curious how the list does!
The deck performs.. I have the same issues others have. It folds to Tron, Scapeshift & other non-interactive combo decks without the standard Junk Midrange Disruption package unless you can assemble a solid clock by T3-4.
Looks like a solid list. I am plus-minus about slaughter pact in the board since you do have 2x decays main. Not sure exactly what you would want to replace it with, but maybe another decay.
Anyway, be sure to post your results!
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The deck got 2nd at a SCG IQ. I posted the list in the second post. Looks like an identical main to Wilson's list, but the SB is heavily built against affinity. Some good hate against scapeshift with Aven Mindcensor too.
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I have most of the deck built, All i'm missing is two wilt-leaf liege and I run a fairly stock list. I did a side even at the Memphis GP and I went 2-1 got 200 tickets and got my playmat. First game was vs a twin deck and with my chokes, seize, and abrupt decays I won 2-1. Second game was against some sort of burn discard deck and I won 2-0. last game was against twin and I never saw my decays or chokes and lost 0-2. All in all I'm enjoying it and I think it has some good potential. Also I should probably say this was the first time I've ever actually did anything with this deck so I'm very happy about it.
I'm trying to decide if I should build the maindeck to guarantee wins against the most common decks and against our best matchups and lean completely on the SB for help in our bad matchups, or if I should make the maindeck a little weaker, but significantly improve the game 1 chances against the bad matchups.
Basically, I'm looking at 4x Thoughtseize maindeck. I think the 2x is worthless. Just change those for Abrupt Decay and guarantee that you crush everything that we are good against. Or add 2 more Thoughtseize maindeck, and suddenly non-interactive decks don't get free game 1 wins against us.
Considering the Walker in the Sideboard, which matchups would you side them in? Sorin seems really good against Burn, Zoo or other very agressive decks. But how about the others?
Looking at GP Vancouver, Twin and Junk make up combined about 50% of the meta. 3x path and 3x abrupt MD along with the smiters and wilt leaf basically means your deck is meant to hate hard on 50% of the meta even before sideboarding. Also, this deck is the only "abzan" deck that went undefeated into day 2. As long as scapeshift stays low, I don't see a huge reason to keep thoughtseize around in the main.
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Considering the Walker in the Sideboard, which matchups would you side them in? Sorin seems really good against Burn, Zoo or other very agressive decks. But how about the others?
Sorin is a win-more/break parity card. He takes more or less even match ups and just pushes everything to your favor. +1/+0 lifelink until your next turn is huge. Basically, your opponent can't attack because you will just chump and gain a bunch of life. Ajani, on the other hand, helps you keep up with control decks. His +1 means you will almost always find another threat to drop, considering the deck is about 50% creatures. His other plus can also help you break parity by pushing you big threats a bit over the top, or helping you go wide with spirits.
Considering the meta of the last GP, namely twin and junk rock, I think Ajani is better. Junk wants to 1-for-1 you for days, ajani says go ahead, I have tons of card advantage over you. Against, Twin, they are going to play tempo or combo against you. Ajani helps you keep up against their tempo game by either outracing them, or getting more pressure on the board.
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As a long time Pod player (since 2012 and now made orphan by the banlist) this deck is exactly what I want to play. I will complete my playset of Rhinos soon and assemble the deck in time for the weekend and will let you know how it went.
What do you guys think of Elspeth in the board for the grindy matchups and Duress for Scapeshift/Control?
Elspeth does not seem like the best answer for grindy matchups. Ajani, Mentor of Heroes will probably do a much better job of keeping up in long games.
I have Thoughtseize in my SB instead of Duress for its ability to hit ANYTHING. In addition to hitting the primary components of decks you are concerned about, Thoughtseize can hit all the fringe elements in those decks as well (Inferno Titan, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Thundermaw Dragon, Stormbreath Dragon, etc) and hurt creature based combo (Bogles, Twin, Amulet, Breach, etc).
Remember that this deck struggles most against unfair decks, so TS is better than duress just because it can remove anything you can't normally handle as others have said.
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Here is Miguel Sumulong's deck that went 9-0 in day one, one of only 3 decks to be undefeated. Unfortunately he didn't make it into the top 8. Actually he finished 59th, which is still quite reasonable.
I like his inclusion of abrupt decay, but considering everyone is going to be bringing twin, I would have kept 2 Pridemages and 2 thoughtseize. As far as the board goes, more choke is needed and I am not sure about the inclusion of scavenging ooze or Sigarda. It seems he wanted to hate on Junk, but the main deck already hates so much at baseline. Personally I would have made it a Thrun, much better against twin and control and a relic of progenitus. What do you guys think?
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Remember that this deck struggles most against unfair decks, so TS is better than duress just because it can remove anything you can't normally handle as others have said.
I run 2 Duress in the board in addition to the 2/2 split of Thoughtseize. I think it's better than Inquisition because it helps against Scapeshift and Tron and can take a Twin away or a Hive Mind against Amulet Bloom. It's also an easy sub for TS against burn. I still don't know if it's the best use of sideboard slots, but I think if you want more hand disruption it's the best way to go.
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Nice looking list, but I am not sure if you want Vault of the Archangel. It doesn't really fit into our game plan and, at least in my experience, rarely helps to stabilize the board.
If you could try and post your list in these forums, most people won't click though to see your list on other sites.
Updated thread with "Little Kid" name. Any other names you that this deck goes by?
TBQH it is partly due to budget constraints. I borrow/proxy the Hierarchs when I can and when I can't there are two Avacyn's Pilgrim in those slots because I like having more than 4 dorks (which do an alright job of fixing considering you have Green mana anyways and we have so much hybrid). But also, since I'm using Foothills instead of Catacombs, I can't fetch basic swamp, which means I really need easy black mana. So 4 birds. It's possible even with Verdant Catacombs I still want more birds so I can more painlessly do things like flashback souls + abrupt decay, but I'll readily admit my setup isn't optimal. Dragons of Tarkir and MM2015 soon pls.
So that said, that Urborg is looking pretty nice. I may want to try that out. But I was meaning to ask you about the manabase, how are you liking the 3 Sunpetal Groves? I run 2 Thicket and 1 Grove and I still have that one Grove show up in awkward opening hands like bird, 2-drop, 3-drop, grove, gavony, bird. Super awkward to the point where I can't imagine running 3.
As for names, I think the official PT stream used "Wilted Abzan," which I am partial to. Then again I hate "Little Kid Abzan" as a name so I'm biased. <_<
Vault is a nod to Burn MD outside of the 3 Finks, 4 Rhinos. It allows you to trade spirits with anything and push through damage in a standoff. Yes, I prefer it to a 3rd Gavony all day long.
Has it tested well? I understand the theory of it, and had it in a some of my other token decks, but just found the 5 mana activation was hard to obtain. However, in those decks I didn't have mana dorks, so maybe that makes the difference. Post your results, I am curious how the list does!
The deck performs.. I have the same issues others have. It folds to Tron, Scapeshift & other non-interactive combo decks without the standard Junk Midrange Disruption package unless you can assemble a solid clock by T3-4.
Anyway, be sure to post your results!
Basically, I'm looking at 4x Thoughtseize maindeck. I think the 2x is worthless. Just change those for Abrupt Decay and guarantee that you crush everything that we are good against. Or add 2 more Thoughtseize maindeck, and suddenly non-interactive decks don't get free game 1 wins against us.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
Sorin is a win-more/break parity card. He takes more or less even match ups and just pushes everything to your favor. +1/+0 lifelink until your next turn is huge. Basically, your opponent can't attack because you will just chump and gain a bunch of life. Ajani, on the other hand, helps you keep up with control decks. His +1 means you will almost always find another threat to drop, considering the deck is about 50% creatures. His other plus can also help you break parity by pushing you big threats a bit over the top, or helping you go wide with spirits.
Considering the meta of the last GP, namely twin and junk rock, I think Ajani is better. Junk wants to 1-for-1 you for days, ajani says go ahead, I have tons of card advantage over you. Against, Twin, they are going to play tempo or combo against you. Ajani helps you keep up against their tempo game by either outracing them, or getting more pressure on the board.
What do you guys think of Elspeth in the board for the grindy matchups and Duress for Scapeshift/Control?
I have Thoughtseize in my SB instead of Duress for its ability to hit ANYTHING. In addition to hitting the primary components of decks you are concerned about, Thoughtseize can hit all the fringe elements in those decks as well (Inferno Titan, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Thundermaw Dragon, Stormbreath Dragon, etc) and hurt creature based combo (Bogles, Twin, Amulet, Breach, etc).
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/taking-gw-to-the-top-8-of-pro-tour-fate-reforged/
i'm still iffy on his lack of abrupt decays. he's only got one in the side.
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Instants - 5
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
Sorcery - 7
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Razorverge Thicket
3 Gavony Township
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Celestial Purge
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Maelstrome Pulse
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Stony Silence
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Choke
1 Zealous Persectuion
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Leyline of Sanctity
I like his inclusion of abrupt decay, but considering everyone is going to be bringing twin, I would have kept 2 Pridemages and 2 thoughtseize. As far as the board goes, more choke is needed and I am not sure about the inclusion of scavenging ooze or Sigarda. It seems he wanted to hate on Junk, but the main deck already hates so much at baseline. Personally I would have made it a Thrun, much better against twin and control and a relic of progenitus. What do you guys think?
I run 2 Duress in the board in addition to the 2/2 split of Thoughtseize. I think it's better than Inquisition because it helps against Scapeshift and Tron and can take a Twin away or a Hive Mind against Amulet Bloom. It's also an easy sub for TS against burn. I still don't know if it's the best use of sideboard slots, but I think if you want more hand disruption it's the best way to go.