i love the new lilly aswell, but 5 mana may be rough :). Maybe the delirium list with a bunch of mana dorks?!
I agree with this guy. 5 mana seems a bit much. You could put her in there as a one of. But I like having cards I can cast rather than cards I can't. It could be ok though. If you are running more than one. I'd recommend running either more lands or some dorks. Which doesn't really sit well with the delirium plan.
I've been out of modern for a minute, but am trying to brew something up that may be strong in the death's shadow meta. Could i get some advice on this build I'm working on? Currently 61 maindeck so definitely need a cut there, and any advice. also have way too many in sideboard, and not sure what to keep there. Also, in an earlier version I had more of a creature toolbox maindeck, with maindeck revoker and spellskite, but have since moved them into sideboard category. Also previously had counterspells maindeck, but also decided against that and moved to sideboard. Any and all advice/opinions welcomed. Thanks! What do you guys think of thassa? I dont expect to hit her devotion ever, but even without her devotion then I think it's very powerful for a free scrye every turn and the ability to make creatures unblockable. Also is an enchantment for the graveyard if discarded.
I'm not really a fan of Thassa here - in a deck where she'll never be a creature, I wouldn't pay 3 mana for either of those effects.
Even with 4 Traverse, 19 lands also seems a bit greedy.
Also, you have a delirium theme, but don't take advantage of it by having diverse singletons in the maindeck to Traverse for. I think Jadoth's shell is probably the best starting point if this is the style you're going for. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532#paper
I'm not really a fan of Thassa here - in a deck where she'll never be a creature, I wouldn't pay 3 mana for either of those effects.
Even with 4 Traverse, 19 lands also seems a bit greedy.
Also, you have a delirium theme, but don't take advantage of it by having diverse singletons in the maindeck to Traverse for. I think Jadoth's shell is probably the best starting point if this is the style you're going for. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532#paper
ok looking at the jadoth shell, how are the match ups? specifically burn, death shadow, coco decks affinity and control? and from some experienced players how do you navigate these matches?
ok looking at the jadoth shell, how are the match ups? specifically burn, death shadow, coco decks affinity and control? and from some experienced players how do you navigate these matches?
I would love to chat with Jadoth himself and watch some of his game play.
ok looking at the jadoth shell, how are the match ups? specifically burn, death shadow, coco decks affinity and control? and from some experienced players how do you navigate these matches?
I would love to chat with Jadoth himself and watch some of his game play.
The next best thing is Todd Stevens playing the deck.
ok looking at the jadoth shell, how are the match ups? specifically burn, death shadow, coco decks affinity and control? and from some experienced players how do you navigate these matches?
I would love to chat with Jadoth himself and watch some of his game play.
The next best thing is Todd Stevens playing the deck.
@velthov, I like playing the Midrange list the most. I actually just took the other two out of my sig because the Control version wasn't cutting it and the Delirium list, while fun, just doesn't have room for some of my favorite cards like LotV. I still play the Delirium list though.
The latest version of my midrange list is close to the straight BG lists that have been going 5-0 lately, with just a light splash for a Jace and Snapcasters. I'm testing no cantrips for just sheer card quality, and instead relying on Confidant, Jace and Snap for card advantage. Plus, I still get access to counters out of the side for specific matchups.
Don't know if it's better to play 3-1 PW over 2-2 or 3 lili and 0 ashiok (or vice versa).
Still thinking to use 12/14 creatures.
Not sure about the counterspells.
Need help with manabase too.
Don't know if it's better to play 3-1 PW over 2-2 or 3 lili and 0 ashiok (or vice versa).
Still thinking to use 12/14 creatures.
Not sure about the counterspells.
Need help with manabase too.
Hey bud, welcome to Sultai.
Nice list, but if youre asking for a constructive critique, heres a few things I noticed.
Grixis Shadow and Eldrazi Tron are the big kids on the block ATM, and they both run decay/push-proof creatures. You need answers to Reality Smasher and Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and two pulses aren't enough IMHO. I personally advise murderous cut in some number, 2 or 3 I feel, though you need to manage your graveyard once delve becomes a gameplan. Having a mainboard sweeper like damnation or even the newly released Bontu's something-or-other Last Stand (drawing a blank on name, Captain?) could go a long way towards dealing with a runaway board state.
Planeswalkers: New Lily is good against certain decks, notably dredge and affinity, so that's more of a meta call when comparing her to 'of the veil' Lily, but Ashiok really belongs in the sideboard. Theres so many decks that he simply doesn't do anything against, and Midrange cannot afford dead cards on the best of days, let alone this meta. you need your 3 (and above) drops to either immediately win the game or substantially affect the board to stabilize. Call me a traditionalist, but I feel Like Liliana of the veil is still the go to here. She also, incidentally, works well against Eldrazi and Delve fatties. Maybe a 3/1 split with new lily. I will say that Jace, architect of thought is GREAT against Lingering Souls decks and other midrange grinders, so another option for the side.
Spell snare in the main should probably be Stubborn Denial. Your creature suite is basically built to enable ferocious, making it a strict upgrade. Squall seems more at home in the side, but that's a meta call.
Eternal Witness seems a bit hard to cast with such a low land count and your base being black. You also want your creatures to be capable off ending the game in as few turns as possible once resolved. Tasigur fills the need of both efficient beat stick AND card advantage, as well as being a mana sink should you start to flood (more on that later). Again, adding delve spells creates tension with Goyf and Snap, but play smart and keep track of the yard and you should be fine. Kalitas, Traiter of Ghet is another option, minus the mana sink but a HOUSE against Aggro. 12-14 creatures is pretty standard in Midrange builds, which this definitely is.
Your mana base looks pretty solid, actually. I personally like lumbering falls more than quagmire, hexproof is not to be underestimated. Jeskai is on the rise, and everyone and their dog is running fatal push. Falls is as good at ignoring those as tarpit is at sneaking around a cluttered field. I would up the count to 23 lands, as far more games are lost to mana screw than flood, and having a sink already built in (this is Tasi waving. right here in these parenthesis) mitigates a lot of the downside.
Anyways, these are just my observation. They are in no way to be considered expert, but they ARE based on experience and testing. Good luck brother, and be sure to post results. This threads been quiet for WAY too long.
22 Land Including
2 Tarpits
2 Lumbering falls
1 Ghost Quarter
06 Sept 2017: Modern Wednesday
Match 1: Mono Blue Taking Turns
G1: Opening discard reveals 3 land, howling mine, 2 time walks and a cryptic. Take cryptic. Decay mine after drawing off of it. Snap discard T3, t4 goyf with stubb back up takes it.
In: 2 x squall, 3 x Extraction
Out: 3 x Push, 2 x Cut
G2: No discard, but deprive, snap and a clock seems good enough. It's not. Opponent exhausts and gigadrowses his way to victory.
G3: Discard, Flayer, Extract Snap Extract. Also, Decay hitting Dictate of Kruphix was very helpful.
Match 2: Mono White D&T
G1: Discard his Arbiter, play Flayer, swing into blocking Thalia ans 2nd (drawn) Arbiter. Cycle Architects to 2 for 1 him. However double Tec Edge taking me off green gives him enough time to get me with Wisp and Resto.
In 2 x Damnation, 1 x Baloth, Lili
Out 2 x Cut, 2 x Deprive
G2: This game goes much longer, gain some life off of baloth, clear the board, fight through 2 (!) Relics. But... double Tec Edge gets me off Snap Damnation and he takes it.
Match 3: Esper Tap Out Control.
G1: Dicard on both sides, pushes my goyf, cut his Tas, double Tec Edges me off green (for f***s sake). Top deck forest, play Flayer, he has souls, opponent wins race by 3 life.
In: 1 x Golgari Charm, 1 x Lily, 1 x Baloth, 2 x Damnation
Out: 3 x IoK, 2 x Push
G2: Same dance (I love these games) trade resources into top deck war. Snap Golgari Charm clears overextended Souls, lone Goyf survives damnation via stub for win.
G3: Opponent has more respect for Charm now We both have field cleared by sweeper at one point or another, get into a race of manlands. Lumbering shows the value of hexproof, but only gets in twice before Tec Edged (at least it wasnt doulble this time) I have 2 Tarpits, can only activate 1 though, he has Tarpit and 2 Souls. I needed 2 more lands over 2 turns to activate both Tarpits and win race, or removal. Cant find it, he takes it by 1 life. Most fun of the night by far.
Takeaway: My rust was on full display, and more than 1 of those losses could have been prevented with better sequencing or prioritising. Having the full spectrum of disruption, however, did make some bad situations much more manageable. It should be noted that i have yet to pick up the Explosives, they were Spreading Seas this evening. Not sure how much difference that would have made, but I do plan on getting them sooner than later.
Hey, I currently play Jund/Abzan but I feel like Sultai could be a big deal in this current meta. Is there a particular reason why no one is playing this combinasion other than it has no Lingering souls? Anyways, here's the list I'm looking forward to build :
Since there are so many options and ways to build the deck, I've decided that Ancestral vision would be more effective than Opt or Serum vision. As for the mana base, I had no clue where to start, could someone help me out on this please?
Hey bud, welcome. A quick mana count tells me you're a base Black/Blue deck with Green splash, and the Lily's make Black dominant.
We'll begin with fetches, 4 polluted deltas is a gimme, and I would advise a 2/2 or 3/1 split of verdant catacombs and misty rainforests for the remaining fetches. 3 Shock lands and 3 basics for fetching brings our base to 14. Next, you need to decide on which manlands you're running, and how many. I never build a midrange without 4, but the case could be made for 3. Creeping tarpit is better against uninteractive linear decks, lumbering falls shines against removal packed control (beware blessed alliance) and hissing quagmire trades with anything not flying or first strike. I personally run a 2/2 split of tarpit and lumbering falls, but it's a meta call. Now we're up to 18.
Quick lands generally fill up the space leftover in a midrange mana base. The colors your deck needs earliest and most often dictate which quick go here,but it's also a good spot to add the color you're lacking in the rest of the base. Example, you're running 4 creeping tarpits along with the fetch/shock/basics I mentioned before, you'd be too low on green to reliable drop a goyf or decay turn 2. Blooming marshes and botanical sanctum, probably at 3/1, would work there. The tarpit/falls split I run would rather have darkslick shores and blooming marsh at 3/1. Now we're up to 22.
The last 1 to 2 lands will either be additional shocks (if you can afford the health), basics (hedges against that damned moon, also painless), and/or a utility land or two. While a few ghost quarters may sound like a great addition to any deck, tri color midrange is more vulnerable to color screw than most decks, so be careful.
Hopefully that helps, those guidelines have served me well for years. Keep it Sultai.
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I agree with this guy. 5 mana seems a bit much. You could put her in there as a one of. But I like having cards I can cast rather than cards I can't. It could be ok though. If you are running more than one. I'd recommend running either more lands or some dorks. Which doesn't really sit well with the delirium plan.
19 lands
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hinterland Harbor
4 Blooming Marsh
16 creatures
3 architects of will
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 snapcaster mage
1 Thassa, god of the sea
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 traverse the ulvenwald
3 fatal push
3 abrupt decay
3 thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 thought scour
1 Eyeblight's Ending
3 other spells
3 Liliana of the Veil
1x Spellskite
1x phyrexian revoker
1x obstinate baloth
1x reclamation sage
1x Fulminator Mage
3x surgical extraction
1x thoughtseize
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x countersquall
2x deprive
1x abrupt decay
1x fatal push
2x dismember
2x Feed the clan
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Even with 4 Traverse, 19 lands also seems a bit greedy.
Also, you have a delirium theme, but don't take advantage of it by having diverse singletons in the maindeck to Traverse for. I think Jadoth's shell is probably the best starting point if this is the style you're going for. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532#paper
Agree with above.
I would love to chat with Jadoth himself and watch some of his game play.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121651505
The link is not available.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
BGX Midrange
URX Control
Thx my friend !
The latest version of my midrange list is close to the straight BG lists that have been going 5-0 lately, with just a light splash for a Jace and Snapcasters. I'm testing no cantrips for just sheer card quality, and instead relying on Confidant, Jace and Snap for card advantage. Plus, I still get access to counters out of the side for specific matchups.
1x Breeding Pool
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Island
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Watery Grave
1x Woodland Cemetery
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Countersquall
3x Fatal Push
2x Spell Snare
Creature (11)
1x Eternal Witness
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
Sorcery (12)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Serum Visions
3x Thoughtseize
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
Artifact (1)
1x Engineered Explosives
Don't know if it's better to play 3-1 PW over 2-2 or 3 lili and 0 ashiok (or vice versa).
Still thinking to use 12/14 creatures.
Not sure about the counterspells.
Need help with manabase too.
bit.ly/thecezare
Hey bud, welcome to Sultai.
Nice list, but if youre asking for a constructive critique, heres a few things I noticed.
Grixis Shadow and Eldrazi Tron are the big kids on the block ATM, and they both run decay/push-proof creatures. You need answers to Reality Smasher and Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and two pulses aren't enough IMHO. I personally advise murderous cut in some number, 2 or 3 I feel, though you need to manage your graveyard once delve becomes a gameplan. Having a mainboard sweeper like damnation or even the newly released Bontu's something-or-other Last Stand (drawing a blank on name, Captain?) could go a long way towards dealing with a runaway board state.
Planeswalkers: New Lily is good against certain decks, notably dredge and affinity, so that's more of a meta call when comparing her to 'of the veil' Lily, but Ashiok really belongs in the sideboard. Theres so many decks that he simply doesn't do anything against, and Midrange cannot afford dead cards on the best of days, let alone this meta. you need your 3 (and above) drops to either immediately win the game or substantially affect the board to stabilize. Call me a traditionalist, but I feel Like Liliana of the veil is still the go to here. She also, incidentally, works well against Eldrazi and Delve fatties. Maybe a 3/1 split with new lily. I will say that Jace, architect of thought is GREAT against Lingering Souls decks and other midrange grinders, so another option for the side.
Spell snare in the main should probably be Stubborn Denial. Your creature suite is basically built to enable ferocious, making it a strict upgrade. Squall seems more at home in the side, but that's a meta call.
Eternal Witness seems a bit hard to cast with such a low land count and your base being black. You also want your creatures to be capable off ending the game in as few turns as possible once resolved. Tasigur fills the need of both efficient beat stick AND card advantage, as well as being a mana sink should you start to flood (more on that later). Again, adding delve spells creates tension with Goyf and Snap, but play smart and keep track of the yard and you should be fine. Kalitas, Traiter of Ghet is another option, minus the mana sink but a HOUSE against Aggro. 12-14 creatures is pretty standard in Midrange builds, which this definitely is.
Your mana base looks pretty solid, actually. I personally like lumbering falls more than quagmire, hexproof is not to be underestimated. Jeskai is on the rise, and everyone and their dog is running fatal push. Falls is as good at ignoring those as tarpit is at sneaking around a cluttered field. I would up the count to 23 lands, as far more games are lost to mana screw than flood, and having a sink already built in (this is Tasi waving. right here in these parenthesis) mitigates a lot of the downside.
Anyways, these are just my observation. They are in no way to be considered expert, but they ARE based on experience and testing. Good luck brother, and be sure to post results. This threads been quiet for WAY too long.
I tried to play with Thought Scour and delve pack like grixis but Snap and Goyf seemed to be useless sometimes.
I'll test with 3/1 lili and cut off Witness for Kalithas.
I'm not a big fan of delve mechanic but murderous cut can be a thing.
I'll try a new build and post the results.
bit.ly/thecezare
Creatures
4 Goyf
3 Snap
3 Grim Flayer
3 Architects of Will
2 Tas
Spells
4 IoK
2 Thoughtseize
3 Push
2 Murderous Cut
2 Decay
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Deprive
4 Serum Visions
1 Maelstrom Pulse
22 Land Including
2 Tarpits
2 Lumbering falls
1 Ghost Quarter
06 Sept 2017: Modern Wednesday
Match 1: Mono Blue Taking Turns
G1: Opening discard reveals 3 land, howling mine, 2 time walks and a cryptic. Take cryptic. Decay mine after drawing off of it. Snap discard T3, t4 goyf with stubb back up takes it.
In: 2 x squall, 3 x Extraction
Out: 3 x Push, 2 x Cut
G2: No discard, but deprive, snap and a clock seems good enough. It's not. Opponent exhausts and gigadrowses his way to victory.
G3: Discard, Flayer, Extract Snap Extract. Also, Decay hitting Dictate of Kruphix was very helpful.
Match 2: Mono White D&T
G1: Discard his Arbiter, play Flayer, swing into blocking Thalia ans 2nd (drawn) Arbiter. Cycle Architects to 2 for 1 him. However double Tec Edge taking me off green gives him enough time to get me with Wisp and Resto.
In 2 x Damnation, 1 x Baloth, Lili
Out 2 x Cut, 2 x Deprive
G2: This game goes much longer, gain some life off of baloth, clear the board, fight through 2 (!) Relics. But... double Tec Edge gets me off Snap Damnation and he takes it.
Match 3: Esper Tap Out Control.
G1: Dicard on both sides, pushes my goyf, cut his Tas, double Tec Edges me off green (for f***s sake). Top deck forest, play Flayer, he has souls, opponent wins race by 3 life.
In: 1 x Golgari Charm, 1 x Lily, 1 x Baloth, 2 x Damnation
Out: 3 x IoK, 2 x Push
G2: Same dance (I love these games) trade resources into top deck war. Snap Golgari Charm clears overextended Souls, lone Goyf survives damnation via stub for win.
G3: Opponent has more respect for Charm now We both have field cleared by sweeper at one point or another, get into a race of manlands. Lumbering shows the value of hexproof, but only gets in twice before Tec Edged (at least it wasnt doulble this time) I have 2 Tarpits, can only activate 1 though, he has Tarpit and 2 Souls. I needed 2 more lands over 2 turns to activate both Tarpits and win race, or removal. Cant find it, he takes it by 1 life. Most fun of the night by far.
Takeaway: My rust was on full display, and more than 1 of those losses could have been prevented with better sequencing or prioritising. Having the full spectrum of disruption, however, did make some bad situations much more manageable. It should be noted that i have yet to pick up the Explosives, they were Spreading Seas this evening. Not sure how much difference that would have made, but I do plan on getting them sooner than later.
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Darkslick Shores
1x Forest
1x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
2x Overgrown Tomb
3x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Thragtusk
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
3x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
2x Stubborn Denial
2x Think Twice
1x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Collective Brutality
2x Countersquall
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
Since there are so many options and ways to build the deck, I've decided that Ancestral vision would be more effective than Opt or Serum vision. As for the mana base, I had no clue where to start, could someone help me out on this please?
Looking forward for your input!
BGW - Abzan
Legacy
BG - BG Lands
We'll begin with fetches, 4 polluted deltas is a gimme, and I would advise a 2/2 or 3/1 split of verdant catacombs and misty rainforests for the remaining fetches. 3 Shock lands and 3 basics for fetching brings our base to 14. Next, you need to decide on which manlands you're running, and how many. I never build a midrange without 4, but the case could be made for 3. Creeping tarpit is better against uninteractive linear decks, lumbering falls shines against removal packed control (beware blessed alliance) and hissing quagmire trades with anything not flying or first strike. I personally run a 2/2 split of tarpit and lumbering falls, but it's a meta call. Now we're up to 18.
Quick lands generally fill up the space leftover in a midrange mana base. The colors your deck needs earliest and most often dictate which quick go here,but it's also a good spot to add the color you're lacking in the rest of the base. Example, you're running 4 creeping tarpits along with the fetch/shock/basics I mentioned before, you'd be too low on green to reliable drop a goyf or decay turn 2. Blooming marshes and botanical sanctum, probably at 3/1, would work there. The tarpit/falls split I run would rather have darkslick shores and blooming marsh at 3/1. Now we're up to 22.
The last 1 to 2 lands will either be additional shocks (if you can afford the health), basics (hedges against that damned moon, also painless), and/or a utility land or two. While a few ghost quarters may sound like a great addition to any deck, tri color midrange is more vulnerable to color screw than most decks, so be careful.
Hopefully that helps, those guidelines have served me well for years. Keep it Sultai.