Been lurking this thread for several months now and I finally have time to finish up this rather long report from Regionals on 2/4 in San Diego hosted by At Ease Games. Went with this build of Grixis Reanimator to a 7-2 finish.
Made some last minute changes to my SB guide the previous night due to discovering several foils in the deck were curling dramatically and being able to cut to them reliably. Luckily I still had a nearly complete non-foil version of the deck, but it provoked some untested changes that came back to haunt me throughout the tournament.
R1 vs Naya Burn (0-2)
After getting paired up with my buddy Chris on Jund, we had to repair. Ended up getting paired against my other buddy Rob on Naya Burn (who I play every week at our local shop). Game 1 I'm on 2 lands and Looting away a Through the Breach; leaving with me Vengeance, no dudes, Izzet Charm, and a Bolt. I end up getting to 5 mana and draw Griselbrand, but can't get it in the grave in time before I die to Guide & 2 Swiftspears with Lava Spike and 2 Bolts.
Hadn't been happy with my recent performance against the deck and tried a new SB plan that went light on TTB and heavy on removal. This ended up being the wrong route to go and ended up just being overboarding. Mulled to 5 game 2 and ended up getting locked by an Eidolon and losing 0-2. Entire match took less than 20 minutes. Yup.
R2 vs 5C Zoo (2-1)
My opponent leads with something like an Ancient Ziggurat or Pillar of the Paruns, into Sylvan Caryatid, and I think to myself, "Okay, I got this." Not much to say, here. Emrakul did terrible things and we went to game 2, where I mulled to... 4? Still almost got there, but Siege Rhinos closed the game out for him. Game 3 I Emrakul him again and we're playing draw go for awhile. Finally get enough mana to activate Creeping Tar Pit and he rebuilt quick enough to start chaining Siege Rhinos again. I TTB in Griselbrand for the kill.
R3 vs Titanshift (2-0)
This match was weird. We both have terrible hands and start the match off with a mull to 5 each. He plays Search for Tomorrow and I realize this could probably go either way. I end up countering enough spells to slow him down until I buy time to start activating Desolate Lighthouse. This was the only time during the tournament that it really had a chance to shine. Eventually I find Griselbrand, and reanimate him on their end step. I draw enough cards to get Emrakul into play and attack for 22. Game 2 he mulls to 5 again but I'm pretty set up. Thoughtseize Snap Thoughtseize does serious work, and I eventually Emrakul him to death.
R4 vs Affinity (0-2)
I normally feel pretty good about this matchup, so it was unfortunate to lose game 1; my slow hand could not beat their fast hand. Game 2, I truly felt the pain of Desolate Lighthouse as it prevented what would have been a clutch Anger of the Gods. I never find the 5th mana source to TTB in Emrakul and I just die to Etched Champion beats.
At this point I'm 2-2 and need to win the next 5 rounds to have any hope of placing.
R5 vs Jund (2-1)
First time meeting Ryan Slone, whose name I recognized in the top 8 lists of several Legacy tournaments out here. I saw him beat my other friend earlier in the tournament so I know he's on Jund and that I'm in for a tough match.
Game 1 Jund does Jund things, rips my hand apart, and beats me down with 2CMC creatures. Game 2 we go back and forth enough that both our graves are pretty full, I'm holding Emrakul digging for a Through the Breach. He ticks up Liliana discarding Terminate and makes me discard Emrakul, at which point I have 0 cards in hand or grave. I topdeck Quicksilver Amulet, which he reads and says "Huh, that seems pretty good." I topdeck Griselbrand and pass. He tickets up Liliana again, and I Amulet in Griselbrand in response. He looks at the Terminate in his grave and laughs. I untap, draw, find Emrakul and TTB and a land, and 22 him.
Game 3 he brings back in Kolaghan's Command. Somehow he gets low on life (memory is fuzzy here, I think he's fetching and shocking aggressively) and Bolts become a real path to victory. I get in with a Griselbrand swing, putting him to 4. I play Collective Brutality choosing to drain and discard, while holding Bolt. He thinks hard, and Kommands, shocking me and making me discard. This would have set him up for the win next turn, but I show him the Bolt in response to Kommand and that's it.
R6 vs Merfolk (2-1)
This feels like one of my worst matchups, and I prepare myself to go home earlier than I was hoping to. He's on a mull to 5 and does nothing for what seems like 4 or 5 turns, but I end up with some awkward draws and find nothing while I'm digging, frantically, for any business. I never find it and die to fish beats.
Game 2 I bring in my new tech, Tasigur, but don't see it. I Emrakul him quickly and he scoops. Game 3 is one of the most insane matches of the day where I think I'm back on Grixis Control and I'm beating down with Creeping Tar Pit and Tasigur, burning fools out left and right. His team slowly shrinks as they chump Tasigur over and over. Tar Pit gets Spreading Seas'd. He plays a Lord and I kill it. Finds Mutavault and chumps Tasigur again. I Bolt him and he Dispels it. At this point he's got 3 cards in hand and I'm low on cards, myself, but it turns out his hand was full of just lands and eventually Tasigur closes it out. Tasigur, the Golden MVP.
R7 vs Esper Gifts (2-1)
Easily the coolest deck I faced all day, this one has Baral, Chief of Compliance, a ton of 1U counters, Lingering Souls, and Gifts / Unburial Rites. Eventually he's got a bunch of land and spirit tokens out, I push through TTB after it being remanded 3 turns in a row, but he has enough permanents to sacrifice to Emrakul that he doesn't care, chumps with a spirit, and kills me the next turn.
Game 2 is definitely more grindy and we're both playing control against each other. He doesn't find Baral this game, and I play Quicksilver Amulet after he taps out for Lingering Souls. He Surgicals my Vengeances on my draw step, but I drew the Emrakul, and put it in play while he's tapped out to avoid being blown out by Vendilion Clique (didn't know if he had it or not). He looks at Emrakul, says he has literally no way to deal with it, and scoops.
By the time game 2 ends, we have 5 minutes left in the round. I Emrakul him on turn 3 with Dispel backup and take the match with 2 minutes left on the clock.
R8 vs Affinity (2-0)
I'm 2 rounds away from finishing the swiss and have some weird second wind that pushes me to focus through how tired I am. I see I'm against Affinity again and am thankful for Fatal Push on Inkmoth. I believe I Snap Push another creature which buys me enough time to Griselbrand into Emrakul into a win.
Game 2 I change my SB plan up and don't overboard like in round 4, leaving in Remands and concentrating mostly on sweepers and taking only 1 TTB out as I'm on the draw. He tries to Blood Moon me but I Remand it, then Izzet Charm it the next turn when he recasts it. I Griselbrand him to 13 and set myself up for the win the next turn. He attacks with an Inkmoth, which I kill, and he passes leaving up Signal Pest and Springleaf Drum. I have enough gas in my hand that if I play TTB and it gets countered, I can still Looting into Vengeance on Emrakul the next turn anyway. I go for it, he looks at his life total, makes a sweeping motion with his hand and makes a sound like 'Yeah.' I put Emrakul in, he says, "Oh... I mean I had a response to that."
Awkward.
At this point I can't tell if he's trying to angle me or it was a legitimate misunderstanding. We've been making that motion the entire match to coincide with passing our turns. The judge gets called and starts to talk about backing the game up. I voice concerns as my opponent has information now that he previously didn't have. I mention the precedent that was set with the hand gesture when we'd pass the turn, and the judge rules in my favor that my opponent passed priority. He shows me the Spell Pierce and signs the slip. I show him my hand and tell him I would have had it the next turn anyway.
R9 vs Hatebears (2-0)
Last round. I lose the die roll and we resolve mulligans while we wait for the green light to start... only to get repaired. After a few minutes, we end up playing against each other, anyway, and I lose the die roll again. He leads with Razorverge Thicket into Vial, and I know I'm up against Hatebears. Never played against this match so I have to improvise. He gets an early Thalia, but I kill this as soon as I can so that I can go for it next turn. I face the terrifying choice of whether to fetch and win with TTB on Emrakul or get blown out by Arbiter from his Vial on 2 and lose. He doesn't have the Arbiter, and I nuke his board. He draws, passes, Tar Pit gets in to close it out and we go to game 2.
I believe he mulls to 6 on the play, and my hand is solid. He gets an early RIP out, which I don't have an answer for. It doesn't matter, because I have TTB and Emrakul again. He's got 2 Vials on 2 each, and I need to fetch for my 5th mana. I decide to go for it, again, and he doesn't have Arbiter nor Mindcensor, and I 15 him for the win due to him taking damage from Horizon Canopy damage all game.
I end up as the only 21 pointer to not make top 16 and come in 17th out of 237 players, breaking even on entry and gas money for the day.
---
The meta was crawling with Tron, though sadly I didn't play against a single one the entire day. Also would have liked to see how the Cheerios matchup is, though I didn't play against that, either. I did come away with some great observations from the day, however.
Skip FNM if there's a big tourney the next morning so that I can get a solid amount of sleep. Also, keep my window closed so that the bird that lives outside my window doesn't wake me up at 6am.
Printed out sideboard guides are incredibly useful and noticeably and objectively cut down on time and decision fatigue. Will continue to use these from now on.
Mis-assessed some of those sideboard plans and had to make adjustments partway through the tournament, which proved more successful.
Commitment to a deck yields real results. 4 months on this deck has given me more success than any other in Modern, and I still feel there's room to grow with it.
Winning the first several rounds is imperative for breakers good enough to get me placement above others with the same points I have; losing round 1 really did me in.
Card Choice Observations
Darkness (which I tried spontaneously for Burn, Merfolk, and Affinity) just wasn't as good as I thought it would be. I like this more in Ad Nauseum, or the Rakdos version of Reanimator.
Tasigur was fantastic, and I would absolutely keep him as a 1 of in the board vs quick aggro lists.
Painful Truths felt underwhelming vs Jund, especially since my build is more reactive and controlling. Never really wanted to tap out unless I was getting ready to win shortly thereafter. Would have been better as a 2nd Quicksilver Amulet, I think.
Nihil Spellbombs were okay, but this was mostly for Dredge. These used to be Surgicals and I definitely think those would have been the better choice.
Desolate Lighthouse was not what I wanted for this deck, and it caused color problems more than once. This would go back to being Blackcleave Cliffs #2 or Spirebluff Canal.
Vandalblast was fine, but this would have been better as Shattering Spree, especially considering it interacts better with Snapcaster Mage.
The single Snapcaster Mage was actually great all day, and I'd definitely continue to test it. It filled in a lot of holes and gave me versatility where I needed it.
2 basic Islands feels like too much; should have 2 Watery Graves so that I have 4 fetchable black sources. Sometimes you have to hardcast Griselbrand, but you only have 3 fetchable black sources and no Cliffs or Tar Pits.
Spell Pierce and Fatal Push were fine, but I could see them being cut for something else. Not in love with them.
Trying the Rakdos version again since it's been picking up in popularity. Did okay with the build last FNM, beating Burn and Tron 2-0, losing to BW Smallpox, and Infect. Never lost a single match to Infect with the Grixis version I've been tuning since October, so that felt bad. Probably need to adjust my playstyle, there.
Rafael Silva top 8'd another tournament here with a list very similar to mine, only he's running Tasigur main instead of Snap and only 1 Remand. I'll probably switch back to my controllish version after testing the Rakdos version for awhile, and try 2 Sleight of Hand again. I already miss playing at instant speed, and miss Serum Visions, but I'll keep at this version for awhile.
Also want to say that all of your discussion here has provided great insight into this archetype, so I'm appreciative of that. Any constructive feedback or questions are welcomed.
Is there a reason no one seems to be discussing the new expertise/breaking and entering builds similar to what Dan Ward took to 2nd place of NY Regionals? This version has me all sorts of excited to be playing goryos again. The fact that you become infinitely better, or a the very least have much more game against disruption that uses the stack (surgical, scooze, relic, etc) just seems like something this deck has been wanting since the get go. Not to mention the fact that you now both have more reanimation spells as well as a reanimation spell that allows you to keep your fattie.
Have people just not had the time to develop/test these lists yet or is there some consensus on why this isn't the way to be going that I'm not aware of?
It does seem like a cool / fun list, but you do run into the classic shoal vs non-shoal argument. It is quite possible that this version is better than the Grixis Pro Tour OGW build, but it still has the same weaknesses.
I still personally favor shoal over non-shoal builds. Winning the turn you get Griselbrand in play and combo-ing at instant speed is too great of allure for me and my win % has always been higher with shoal. If that deck is your style though, keep on rocking it and developing it. I spent months refining a RB "control" style build ala Cale Durward which was a lot of fun and I still pick up every now and then.
what do you guys think about rakdos charm? seems very versatile and high impact in certain matchups as answers to one off harecards like cage and relic as well as graveyard hate and kiki/elves/other swarm strat hate?
i'm currently playing the B/R Grishoalbrand and regarding SB choices against decks with counters like Jeskai,Grixis control/Delver and others decks with permission which is better?..Pact of negation or Defense grid?..i'm currently packing 2 pacts and 1 boseiju on my SB and sometimes i feel the pacts are not cutting it.
Pact seems better because grid just makes slows them down, but the games will go longer anyway. It also makes it tough to be able to tax their counterspells with splicing threat cards on their end step.
i'm currently playing the B/R Grishoalbrand and regarding SB choices against decks with counters like Jeskai,Grixis control/Delver and others decks with permission which is better?..Pact of negation or Defense grid?..i'm currently packing 2 pacts and 1 boseiju on my SB and sometimes i feel the pacts are not cutting it.
Consider going up to 3 Pacts. I used to only do 2 and 1 Boseiju, but the bump to 3 has made it a lot better in the match ups where I want to board it in (U based control and Burn).
Round 1 – vs Margaret (RG Tron)
G1 I see a t1 mine and am chuckling in glee already. She gets a t4 tron with no action other than an active Ostone. I draw a bunch from the first Griseldaddy and refuel to kill next turn
G2 She doesn’t seem happy about the keep. Turns out she keeps a 1 lander+map hand. I promptly shattering spree her map. She does not find a land off t2 stirring and I t3 her. +2 Shattering Spree (relic, cage, random map snipe, wurmcoil) -2 Brutality
2-0 (1-0)
Round 2 - vs Adam (Ad Nauseum)
A pleasant fellow from the Midwest – says it’s his first big event and we talk about how we are enjoying our first big event atmosphere.
G1 I keep a very loose 1 land+hug/whisper+combo piece hand and never draw a land. He t3/t4 me. I mentally note that he is playing peer through depth, which I didn’t think was standard (maybe not)
G2 He peers t2 peer->seize and take away my brutality which I forewent for a cantrip. We draw-go for a bit until I Thoughtseize him and see a hand of 4 graces and Ad Nauseum. Neat. He has 2 blooms coming off suspend next turn. I take the AD Nauseum then start chaining combos where I keep refueling and I put a borb end of turn to burn two of his graces. Game ends with me with 7 cards left in deck and a TTB Wurm
G3 is may be the craziest game I played in the tournament. He starts with t0 Leyline. We both exchange cantrips/discards until around t5 where I have a naked goryo with Griselbrand in the graveyard. He has 3 lands (he missed a few landdrops), pentad on 2 and pentad on 1. Given that he hadn’t cantripped/filtered in a few turns I opt to go for the EoT goryo->Griselbrand so I can have more mana and thus more avenues to victory (I’m not sure if this is correct actually – theoretically he can win in response to my goryo’s at instant speed. I don’t think either of us is supposed to wait though). Turns out he had grace+Ad Nauseum and casts them. I goryo in response and start going off, intending summon a one eyed giant and throw prime real estate onto our opponent before noting the Leyline. Plan B is to shoal up to 35+life to deny him the storm kill, but that’s not likely with the cost being pay 7 life per 7 cards unless we draw perfect.
At this point I am resigned to my fate and am sort of planning my side event plans, but it hit me that lightning storm has a secondary ability – throw land to redirect. I proceed to draw through 54 cards of my deck, let the Ad Nauseum resolve, and we start trading lands. I started the land war at 15 life so he had to throw more lands first and I beat him and Griselbrand eats some storm. He had no way to filter for two blues for maniac+SV with SSG and pentad so turns out he was drawing dead at that point.
At this point, I was too busy thinking about how I am about to beat Ad Nauseum after grace=Ad Nauseum and we begin to talk about how he has very little outs given that he has zero cards in deck and is at 1 life. Of course, I was thinking that he’d taken a lethal hit with Unlife but in reailty he was at a negatively large life with no unlife and had no outs. Having realized this, a gent watching our match (was playing 8 rack and made it deep) called a judge, leaving both of us newbies confused, until the Judge clarifies that Adam indeed is at an arbitrarily negative life and would lose as soon as the turn is over. I would not have realized this and played on, and who knew what other rule mistake I would’ve made. Many lessons learned in the match. Thank you, kind stranger. 2-1 (2-0)
G1 He fetch+shocks a bunch and a t2 Borb, t3 borb is enough
G2 I keep a very questionable 4 land+wurm+SSG hand. I prioritized making land drops and card quantity>quality vs jund as hardcasting a top decked TTB/Monster is a realistic avenue to winning. I scry something good top but he t1 thoughtseizes me. Goodbye scry hello defeat. I do note a MD/SB Nihlil Spellbomb
G3 he goes t1 ravine, go. My notes says t2 Griselbrand, t3 TTB. Fair and interactive magic.
OTD: +2 EE (spellbomb, random hateful things) -1 looting (Card disadvantage) -1 Ritual (awful top deck and don’t need speed)
OTP: +2 EE, +2 moon -2 looting -2 hug 2-1 (3-0)
Round 4 – Mason Linne (Affinity)
He gave off the aura of a seasoned veteran. Later searched up some late-game GP videos with Affinity so definitely was not his first rodeo. This also isn’t a great matchup I think so I don’t feel great.
G1 my notepad says “OTD, t2 G+Borb ftw”. Cool
G2 there’s an interesting spot where on my t2 his board is tapped glimmervoid, tapped inkmoth, untapped Opal, ravager, ornithopter, pest and memnite. I have a pyroclasm and Shattering Spree. I can combat the life battle a bit with Shoals but the infect plan would be the worst and I feel like with an Opal open, I’m afraid pyroclasm to wipe the field would induce him to go all in onto Inkmoth with Ravager, so I opt to shattering Spree for 2 (Ravager, pest). He sacs both onto Ornithopter and I breathe a sigh of relief, which lasts one turn when he slams a Rule of Law (did not expect this). Luckily I have most of the combo pieces and EoT Grisel, sculpt a hand of GOryo, TTB< wurm, Shoal, SSG, SSG, x with a Borb in the yard. With 4 lands in play and stubborn denial not active (doubt affinity plays this?) and enough to pay for a pierce, I combo him out
A very pleasant fellow that I got to interact with a few times throughout the weekend. His friend was also the Cheeri0s guy with the degenerate SSG build that brutalized the Merfolks gentleman on camera in a very savage fashion.
G1 I see a bunch of U/R stuff and I’m not sure what he’s on but since I’m not under any pressure I just bide my time and sculpt my hand. Eventually I brutality to see snap nahiri GQ remand path path – Jeskai control. I was pretty sure I can eventually overwhelm him with EoT goryo/TTB/splice shenanigans and refueling with griselbrand. With 5 lands (4 colored and 1 GQ) he taps the 3 colored lands and 1 GQ for presumably a nahiri, then thinks about it and taps the 4 colored lands instead for Nahiri. I think huh but don’t think much of it. I end up comboing and put on the brakes early at a mere Grisel+Wurm, thinking a single GQ doesn’t do a thing. Of course I hurpdurp and do not realize that he can GQ his own land, get a plains, and path. Stupid me. I end up having to work much harder for a Borb kill that turn
G2 I don’t have many notes which means I probably combed him within 5 turns
+2 Pact of Negation +1 Boseiju +1 Spaghettio -2 Hug (really bad against remand/counters) -1 ritual (you have plenty of time) -2 Borb
2-0 (5-0)
Round 6 – vs. Greg (Jund)
G1 I see an overgrown tomb and stomping ground with him on the play before I t2 him
G2 I t4 him through IoK. +1 Emrakul (shocks mean 15 is usually lethal, clears scooze) +2 fatal push (confidant/scooze, more mana efficient but doesn’t hit a spellbomb or a cage of the sorts so maybe 2 EE is better) +1 pyroclasm (not sure)
-1 Borb -2 Brutality (not sure on this either, can take terminate/discard, can kill confidant/scooze sometime, discard outlet), -2 looting (attrition)
2-0 (6-0)
At this point I finished early and got to look around the top tables a bit. A lot of Death’s shadow jund (which likely is a bad matchup), bant eldrazi and eldrazi tron, with surprisingly some 8 rack (which I can’t imagine is a good match up and can be very easily locked out of playing). Also I noted a young Chinese guy locking some poor soul out with the lantern menace. I mental pray to RNGesus so I would not have to face him down the road – main deck needle/surgical/bridge, sideboard cage, efficient tutors – whatever could go wrong?
Round 7 – Max McVety (Infect)
I’ve seen him a few times during SCG broadcasts playing infect but am not sure whether he’d be on it still after the probe ban.
G1 he leads with a t1 glistener elf and I’m already mentally replaying the beatings I took in Vancouver. There was an interesting spot with me OTD on my third turn. I have the set up to t4 Goryo->Griselbrand. With him at 1 land (missed two landdrops) and 2 elves, I brutality discarding Griselbrand to -2/-2 and discard. Max thinks for a bit and casts mutagenic in response to save the Elf. I then see Vines, Blossoming, Become Immense, Sylvan Scrying and Mutagenic. I don’t believe the choice of Mutagenic/Become Immense mattered as long as I take one or the other, as otherwise even a fetchland would only bring him up to 5 effective mana.
I end up killing him next turn but after the game we discuss the line taken and conclude that if he had let the elf get -2/-2’d, he would have the win no matter what I take if he drew a fetchland, which he did. G2 I see him hemming and hawing before the keep and the thoughtseize confirms my suspicion – no threat with only a sylvan scrying, which I take. I end up killing him shortly thereafter.
I breathe a sigh of relief escaping a horrible matchup and start thinking about the possibility of running the table on day 1. Pretty exciting thought until I saw the pairing and saw myself being paired up against a Chinese named person, afraid of what that meant for me.
Round 8 – ZenMin Chen (Lantern)
My Fear is confirmed when we greet each other at table #1, eventually moving to the backup feature table. Part of my mind was already thinking ahead pondering what desperate sideboard tech I should employ against this horrendous matchup (t1/t2 blood moon seems good in theory..)
G1 I eat an IoK and he starts the lock engine going with a lantern and a shredder a piece. Bridge comes down and I’m about to mentally log out of g1. Eventually through discard he sees that I have the Griselbrand in the graveyard and 2 goryo’s but stuck on 3 lands and no additional mana (I had brutalitied him to confirm him having a surgical). He starts aggressively milling me off of lands. Around t6 I show a SSG off the lantern, which he shreds with his only shredder to reveal.. another SSG. I do the whole song and dance with griseldaddy escaping the grasp of the extraction with two vengeances and throw more real estate at him
G2 – We get to play out the end of our game on camera. Cedric/Patrick cuts to our game with me having nothing and Zenmin having a needle (Griselbrand), bridge, cage and Leyline. Rewind the game a few minutes – he t0 leyline, t1 cage, t2 stir->bridge, t3 bridge. I was sandbagging my shattering spree, thinking I need to be greedy and tag as many goods as I can to give myself the best chance, given he did not play any discards early I thought this was safe.. until he (presumably) topdecked a thoughtseize and buh bye shattering spree. t4 he Lost Legacy, naming Griselbrand, arriving at the board state. RNGesus returns the love with a top decked shattering spree to blow up the cage, needle and bridge and we are off the races to find business. I eventually get there with TTB->Wurm and I have dodged two gigantic bullets to start 8-0 against arguably my two worst matchups
2-0 (8-0)
+2 Shattering Spree +2 EE -2 brutality -1 Wurm -1 Shoal (could be horribly wrong – I reasoned that life does not matter and more often than not wurm/shoal would rot in our hands because we never get started so we’d rather remove potentially dead cards and try to go off by being dense in business/speed).
I strongly considered bringing in blood moon even on the draw, as we are capable through ritual/SSG to t1/t2 moon, which would shut down their disruption and search package (stirring/crane/fair), leaving them with double mox as outs for decay (not sure if they’d even leave the decay in there, but I don’t know how many dead cards they have against us) or otherwise playing a “fair” lantern game. Would like to hear from lantern players on how much blood moon would bother them.
At this point all I could think of was dinner, as I hadn’t eaten since 8 am and was afraid to try and run to the food court for food and be late for the rounds. Should’ve obviously brought some granolas.
Round 9 – John Sauer (Bant Eldrazi)
I think there were only 4 undefeated players remaining – nice. John was a nice guy who ended up making top 8. We greet each other and confirm the most pressing mater on both our minds – the grub for the night…
G1 He’s on the play and starts with a maindeck gemstone cavern. I am perplexed but make a mental note that no one trying to play fair would play this. Jig is up when he t3 skyspawners but I combo off before t5
G2 I have John never moving off 19 and I presumably got my realities smashed and thoughts mangled
G3 John mulls to 6 and goes forest->stirring->Cage. Cool. I think I had an EE which I played at 1. I was staring at a t3 goryos combo and already was counting the gold in my head but got TKS’d and Eldrazi’d into submission. Oops
+1 Emrakul (path, fetch/shock/brushland ping), +2 Moon (OTP), +2 EE (relic, cage, RIP) -1 Borb -2 hug -2 brutality.
In retrospect Emrakul> Borbrygmos may be bad, as the displacer lock can be online as soon as t3 and drowner is likely the end of us. I think we need an avenue to winning via tapping. 1-2, (8-1)
A bit disappointed at the last lost but stoked that my first SCG event started off very well with many ups and downs.
Day 2
Unlike the day before I arrive with time to spare and am mentally ready. My goal was to play as tight as possible and be in contention for a top prize come round 15
Round 10 – vs .Kent Ketter (Death’s Shadow Jund)
We have some nice smalltalk before being called into the backup featured matchup area. I remember him playing dredge last year on camera but have no idea what he’s brought
G1 the jig is up when he starts shocking/fetching like crazy, until he cycles a MD Architect of Thought (?!). Still ended up being death shadow and DSJ does DSJ things
G2 I keep a really loose hand of land, shoal, hug, 2 SSG, goryo, EE. I figure I draw a land and I am in a very good shape. He brutalities away my goryo and I never draw a land for the rest of the game, even through SSG->hug and SSG->whisper. A second EE and fatal push was not enough. Oh well +2 push +2 EE (good answers plus I saw some lists play canonist/eidolon of rhetoric) -2 brutality (never does anything) -2 Whispers
I debated bringing in Emrakul but ended up not even though they are most certainly going to be below 15 every time Emrakul would show up to the party. Problem is the circumstances required to play her can be quite restrictive (sorcery speed through looting/goryo, or 4/5 mana for TTB). There’s a decent chance Borborygmos becomes a relevant instant-speed blocker, plus there’s a good chance if I hold some lands over one goryo->borb would be enough
0-2 (8-2)
+2 push +2 EE -2 brutality -2 whispers
I considered moon - probably is pretty good otp?
Round 11 – vs. Kennith (Dredge)
G1 I see him play t1 copperline->looting. To think I almost extended my hand to high 5 a fellow unfair mage. He ends up spewing out powers onto the field and I am left in a weird spot I am at 7 life (thus cannot activate Griselbrand once) and have to Goryo Griselbrand during his attack phase facing lethal. He has a Conflagrate for 7 at the ready if the game reaches his second main phase – block+lifelink+damages would leave me at 14 life with him having +10 power, effectively facing lethal next turn. My hand was a bunch of disparate pieces (lands, shoal, goryo with no creature in the GY, looting) and mentally decided I need to draw 7 and pray rather than rely on draw+looting to get me there. For some godforsaken reason draw 7 before damage, allowing him to conflagrate me to death. Obviously should’ve done so at the end step so I don’t get burned to crisp – I attribute that to the previous two loses/sleepless nights..
G2 I have a t1 temple, and one untapped land away from t2 looting+SSG+goryo Griselbrand. Of course I draw a temple of malice and do not get to play. Per standard, I get thoughtseized two turns in a row and Kennith has dismantled my gameplan enough that his slow start did no tmatter. 0-2 (8-3)
At this point the 3 losses in a row were pretty disheartening but I understand the high variance nature of the deck and resolve to suck it up and play tight magic still.
Round 12 – vs. Anthony (GW Tron)
G1 I see a t1 stir->Urza’s tower and my heart feels all warm and fuzzy inside. He sets up tron for the first few turns while I t3 Griselbrand, t4 TTB Wurm I did not get to see his secondary color, so I brought in EE over spree to hedge
G2 he t2 map->thicket and t3 RIP’s me. Eventually I come to a game state of having 3 lands and a griselbrand activation+path on stack and I sculpt a hand of SSG, shoal, shoal, griselbrand, ttb, x. Notably I threw away a desperate ritual after not thinking about it too hard. He had tron next turn and punished me by karning my land, leaving me with 2 lands and SSG. Had I kept the ritual over x, I could’ve made 4 mana, spliced TTB onto shoal and gone off. C’est La Vie. I get ulamog’d to death
G3 he has an early RIP again and I’m durdling a bunch not drawing any business. Eventually he taps out for karn and Ihave an opening to either Breach a wurm or griselbrand, and I opt to go for the wurm and take the free 15 (path renders it useless). The death trigger gets robbed by RIP and he does not get to bring his friends. Next turn I Breach a lethal griselbrand which gets pathed and I refuel. I end up sculpting a board state of 5lands+1 more from path and SSG, SSG, SSG, TB, Griselbrand, Emrakul, Ritual with him having tron and 11 mana (could be 14 with a tower) which would’ve covered what I believe is the worst case scenario with 11 lands+land drop of ulamog->GQ->karn exile land.
+1 Emrakul +2 EE -2 Brutality -1 Borb
2-1 (9-3)
Round 13 – vs. Zac (RG Tron)
G1 he t2 stirs into a mine; Christmas has come early again. t3 Griselbrand->Borb
G2 I think I t4 him
SB: Same as Round 1
I see that I have a reasonable first tiebreaker and am hopeful I get a chance to right the ship and win out into the top 8
Round 14 – vs. James (Bant Eldrazi)
James was a real cool dude and we made smalltalk before getting into serious business – I find out he’s a grinder that’s close to an Invitational invite so clearly he did not get here by fluke.
G1 I ram a griselbrand into his displacer t4 and win through his displacement via Borb
G2 I kept 3 vengeance, mountain, ssg, whisper, shoal. Pretty risky without a black mana but I figure I have 17 black sources and If I draw one I’m a favourite to win (plus bant eldrazi doesn’t always have a fast clock.. right?) James ends up t2 stirring->cage and I get promptly dismissed
G3 is a crazy game where I almost punt. I value Griselbrand around t3 in the face of a path and make the first mistake of drawing before attacking in the face of a possible path without having a realistic chance of playing another monster into combat. I lose 7 cards that way but refuel to another hand with a lot of business. I Griselbrand again and sculpt a hand of Emrakul, Griselbrand,TTBs and mana, with Borb in the graveyard. In a few turns I go off drawing nearly the entire deck with the intent to vengeance borb for the win, with a few problems – 1. I boarded out 1 of my 2 borbs for Emrakul (which got TKS’d), and 2. I did not realize until I was 58 cards deep that all 4 vengeances were already in the graveyard. All the extra cards I probably didn’t need to draw even if I had vengeance was about to punish me and I spend an eternity in panic trying to sculpt a winning hand. James looks annoyed at this point which I do not blame but I try to hastily formulate a plan with 2 cards left in the deck and him at 11 life and the only Emrakul in exile. Wurm is the logical explanation but I only have 4 lands, am at a reasonably low life and that leaves being crushed by Path. A judge finally steps in and insists I make a move and I hastily assemble a 7 card hand with a bunch of griselbrands, 1 wurm, SSG and TTBs, which really didn’t matter. I pass, eat an attack and James leaves a white mana open to play a skyspawner, ending the line of two griselbrand breaches FTW. I draw my penultimate card, pitch SSG to Breach and wurm and hope for the best.. and get there
Lack of reps definitely showed there. You definitely do not have to draw mindlessly if you can’t lose next turn – much better to reset next turn with more mana/resources.
After that game the standings go up and I am paired with Patrick, who led the 11-3 bracket with his tiebreaker at 9th and I was at 12th so winner was likely going to make the top 8.
Round 15 vs. Patrick Tilsen (Abzan)
G1 is uneventful – I eat a t2 inquisition but still t4 Griselbrand->loot->manamorphose->vengeance->hill giant. I am elated at the prospect of top 8ing the event
G2 he t1 IoKs away my hug, t2 thoughtseize, and Abzan gets to do Abzan things
G3 starts with ~14 minutes to go and we get on camera for the final half of our rubber match. But unlike the last camera match there’s nothing spectacular going on – Abzan playing its Abzan game with disruption and creature. Flayer does huge work here for Patrick – he must’ve binned around 8 lands digging for action. At some point I saw him bin away Goyfs early in games. He reasoned that though a clock, my clock was theoretically faster and goyf was too low impact, which I can see. At one point he has thoroughly cleaned out my hand through discard. I topdeck a vengeance and apologetically casts it on my Griselbrand, thinking I just sucked out badly, only to meet my rude awakening with the surgical. Granted, I could not have played around that but I felt silly not having considered that. Near the end, Patrick is frantically throwing out land for some action and at one point he bins path to exile with one card in hand, which made me believe the other card in the hand must’ve been another path, which made me believe I had very little outs as I’d already exhausted a few shoals/wurms. I did have a wurm in hand and Griselbrand in the GY – it turned out Patrick’s remaining card was an extraction, not path, which made him binning the path a mistake and gave me a ~3/45 chance to top deck for the win with him below 9 life. Alas it was not meant to be and I wish him well – that must’ve been the only mistake Patrick made in the match because everything else seemed as tightly played as it could have been. Well deserved top 8 and an almost-win – congrats!
Final record: 11-4, 20th
Conclusion:
*Deck definitely has the right power level, but loses to itself a lot. I’d love to include blue somehow for serum visions and some permission
*Traditional Grixis vengeance seems too weak – oftentimes a Grisel/Emrakul would not be enough. The Breaking Vengeance deck does seem powerful and potentially consistent enough that I’d like to try that out over Grishoalbrand to see if there’s anything there
*Changes to the deck going forward:
*Experimenting tormenting voice>cathartic reunion – rarely did I fist pump to discard 2 cards
*Removing pacts of negation altogether – maybe control will rise again with death’s shadow rising, but I don’t even think blue control decks are that tough of a matchup and burn can be navigated through carefully. I’d maybe keep the boseiju as a matchup breaker
*Pyroclasm could be upgraded to Anger.. maybe
*Blood Moon doesn’t seem that good right now, but maybe I’m wrong. The decks it’s supposedly good against like Bant Eldrazi (is good, but a lot of lists now play talisman?), Eldrazi tron (not actually good), Gx tron (not really good), valakut (you are already a favourite) aren’t really compelling enough even. Maybe a more high impact set of cards is needed. I considered Rakdos charm (artifact, GY, kiki chord) and Read the Bones (grindy) which I will test going forward.
Was going to play Bogles, but a friend wanted to use my GW Tron and I don't have multiple sets of Razorverge Thicket/Horizon Canopy, so I decided to use Grishoalbrand. 20 something players for payout based on W/L record.
Round 1 vs. RUG Traverse. I get there in the first game on turn 2 with Goryo's Vengeance on Griselbrand. In the next game, I make a mistake of going for Through the Breach and he does Dispel. I draw Pact of Negation the very next turn - PUNISHED. I end up drawing air and have to do a series of Nourishing Shoal/Wurm to stay alive, but can never quite discard to hand size. It didn't matter, as I didn't draw Goryo's Vengeance anyway. In the final game, I draw a midgame Inquisition of Kozilek and it shows a hand of Kiki Jiki, Huntmaster of the Fells, and 2 lands. I follow it with Through the Breach/Worldspine Wurm and it is exactly lethal with only a Snapcaster Mage to block and him at 14. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Jund. This was actually a very good match. In the first game, he gets stuck on 2 lands, then 3 lands for a bit and I get there with Griselbrand. In the next game, he gets an early Scavenging Ooze and rides it to victory. The final game was a very good one. He doesn't get pressure and I am trying to find pieces. He finally gets a Scavenging Ooze, then a Bob and Tarmogoyf. On the next turn, I Breach a Worldspine Wurm. Then I make a mistake of attacking both into a 5/6 Goyf, but he has to block with a 4/4 Scooze to stay alive. It doesn't matter because he finds nothing and I hard cast Griselbrand next turn, although I briefly considered doing Through the Breach/Splice Through the Breach to get both out last turn. I just figured that a hardcast Griselbrand is stronger and I won't die in a turn. My follow up was going to be 2 Simian Spirit Guide, as his Liliana of the Veil would be at 2 counters then. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. GB Tron. I literally play nothing this whole game but 4 lands and 1 Night's Whisper. I lose to Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog. In the next game, I go off safely on turn 3 after he mulled to 5 and only had 1 land. In the finals game, he does double Collective Brutality to take my double Goryo's Vengeance after I had gone to discard Griselbrand. But he can't quite find Tron after this and I do Through the Breach Wurm and he dies the next turn. He shows me double Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Naya Burn, I think. I came with a friend, who presumably wanted to leave early, so I scooped since this guy didn't want to ID. My friend ended up talking to an old friend, so I think I had time to play it. Oh well. 0-2.
I finish at 3-1, which is solid after such a poor Regionals.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Round 1 vs. Mono Black lifegain. It was a new player and an inexpensive, ineffective deck. But at least he seemingly made decent plays. I turn 4 and 3ed him with Through the BreachWorldspine Wurm and that was that after some lifelink creatures and Blood Artist blocked. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Abzan Tokens. Not sure if you guys know this deck. Matt Nass played it. Mana dorks into Lingering Souls/Nissa, Voice of Zendikar/Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. She was beating me down in the first game, but did Gideon into a token instead of pumping her team. The other option was using her Gavony Township on turn 5 to put me lower. But I drew Through the Breach for my Griselbrand and drew enough to win. In the next game, she mulled to 5, found only Gavony Township, and I turn 3ed Blood Moon. That made it very easy. She shows me a hand of triple mana dork and triple Path to Exile. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. GW Tron. Easy matchup, right? Nope. He gets turn 1 Relic of Progenitus and I literally never have an opening, drawing 3 Goryo's Vengeance during the game. Since I had missed some land drops to Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm, he has his 1 Razorverge Thicket up after doing 3 Ancient Stirrings. Sure enough, he had Path to Exile as one of his two last cards. Much later when I'm about to die, I do Through the Breach Wurm and he takes it. But he draws Ugin or had Ugin and my tokens are gone. His Wurmcoil Engine tokens get it done. In the next game, I get turn 3 Blood Moon, as I keep with 2 Through the Breach, Blood Moon, and 4 land. But I don't draw anything. Finally I have to cast 2 Simian Spirit Guide to chump a Thragtusk and Wurmcoil Engine. Oh, I was suuuuper lucky to draw a Shatterstorm when he was tapped out to get Relic of Progenitus, Chromatic Star, Pithing Needle on Griselbrand (his turn 1 play), and an Expedition Map. That was indeed lucky, but I never draw more creatures than 2 Simian Spirit Guide. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Merfolk. This guy reaaalllly LOVES his fish. In the first game, I do Cathartic Reunion with 2 mana with his Cursecatcher in play. He thinks, then sacrifices. I exile SSG and the cards are good. I get there with a Vengeance a few turns later. In the next game, he basically did Dispel and Negate on 2 Goryo's Vengeance and Vialed 2 Lords and a Harbinger for lethal. In the last game, it is pretty drawn out. I kept on double Anger of the Gods, which basically won me the game. Finally I draw Through the Breach after having triple Goryo's Vengeance with double Relic of Progenitus in play for him. I Splice it on Shoal. He sacrifices Cursecatcher. I pay 1. He Vials in another and I can't pay, despite the fact that I have Pact of Negation in hand. On my next turn, I go with Through the Breach for Griselbrand and go off despite a Vialed Vendilion Clique, targeting me, and a Harbinger of the Tides targeting my Griselbrand. I draw enough lands barely and trample through with BoBo to put lethal on the board. Still had now 2 Pact of Negation after drawing with Griselbrand. 2-1.
I get 3-1 for 2nd place.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
now that the next B&R annoncement is just around the corner..and obviously simian spirit guide has a huge target on it's back i'm just wondering if any griselbrand deck would still be competitive in modern if good ol' SSG gets the axe..i just can't think of the shoal version surviving without SSG.
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Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
now that the next B&R annoncement is just around the corner..and obviously simian spirit guide has a huge target on it's back i'm just wondering if any griselbrand deck would still be competitive in modern if good ol' SSG gets the axe..i just can't think of the shoal version surviving without SSG.
I'll start off by saying that I'd be SHOCKED if SSG got banned. The card doesn't meet any known criteria for banning (Not in a top tier deck, regardless of pre-T4 wins).
Shoal would be dead since there would be no advantage to drawing your whole deck in a single turn. Some version of reanimator would still be viable (likely BR... maybe grixis) using Pentad Prism as a way to get to T3 Griselbrand or Emrakul, but it is likely just a worse plan overall. The Expertise based decks may also see an uptick in play, though that version hasn't really impressed me at this point. So... I'd probably go back to a version of Caleb Durward's BR reanimator w/ more control based elements. None of these versions feel as competitive (IMO) as shoal though.
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Agreed. I doubt that Simian Spirit Guide has a target on its back. Death's Shadow is the current best deck and Grishoalbrand/Ad Nauseam are both not quite on the "same level," top 8s-wise. Both decks would be killed/neutered if SSG was banned.
I think honestly that players may think Simian Spirit Guide and Mox Opal have a target on their backs, but it's more wishful thinking that it would be the case so that unbans of known "fair" cards would actually have a huge effect. As it is now, some of the potential unbans don't seem to do much because the other decks are just too strong and tough to interact with (as a whole, not individually).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Reminder that banlist discussion is not allowed outside of official, designated threads. This includes in deck discussion threads. If you see someone having this discussion, don't respond. Just report it and let staff handle it.
Quick question about this, so if somebody would ask, "what version would you play without SSG" it is okay, but as soon as it is, "what would happen if SSG gets banned?" it is a problem?
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Quick question about this, so if somebody would ask, "what version would you play without SSG" it is okay, but as soon as it is, "what would happen if SSG gets banned?" it is a problem?
Greetings,
Kathal
It would be okay to say "Here's the list I would play without SSG:" and then discuss/present that list. It is not okay to speculate on the likelihood/reasons for or against that banning, or any other banlist policy/philosophy topic.
Quick question about this, so if somebody would ask, "what version would you play without SSG" it is okay, but as soon as it is, "what would happen if SSG gets banned?" it is a problem?
Greetings,
Kathal
It would be okay to say "Here's the list I would play without SSG:" and then discuss/present that list. It is not okay to speculate on the likelihood/reasons for or against that banning, or any other banlist policy/philosophy topic.
But what's the reason for playing the deck without SSG? Surely players must present one? Otherwise any budget player can stroll into the Jund thread and go "here's the list I would play without Tarmogoyf" to get around the forum rules. It would strike me as odd if the same didn't apply to banlist discussion.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Quick question about this, so if somebody would ask, "what version would you play without SSG" it is okay, but as soon as it is, "what would happen if SSG gets banned?" it is a problem?
Greetings,
Kathal
It would be okay to say "Here's the list I would play without SSG:" and then discuss/present that list. It is not okay to speculate on the likelihood/reasons for or against that banning, or any other banlist policy/philosophy topic.
But what's the reason for playing the deck without SSG? Surely players must present one? Otherwise any budget player can stroll into the Jund thread and go "here's the list I would play without Tarmogoyf" to get around the forum rules. It would strike me as odd if the same didn't apply to banlist discussion.
You would preface it by saying "if xx got banned, I would play..." This is explicitly in the Modern subforum rules as a deliberate exception for decks that might get hit with a ban. So far, it's a common sense solution to an issue that affects very few decks and the rule hasn't been abused or taken to the extreme (i.e. people have only done it in a few cases when there was legitimate fear for a ban, and then that ban happened 1-2 weeks later). If users started looking to exploit the rule as a loophole or posted this kind of discussion in threads that are unlikely to be affected by bans, staff would step in and/or change the rule. So far, this hasn't happened and users have used good judgment to follow the rule.
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Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010
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4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (17)
1 Fatal Push
4 Goryo's Vengeance
3 Izzet Charm
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Through the Breach
Sorceries (10)
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Darkness
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Painful Truths
1 Quicksilver Amulet
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
Made some last minute changes to my SB guide the previous night due to discovering several foils in the deck were curling dramatically and being able to cut to them reliably. Luckily I still had a nearly complete non-foil version of the deck, but it provoked some untested changes that came back to haunt me throughout the tournament.
R1 vs Naya Burn (0-2)
After getting paired up with my buddy Chris on Jund, we had to repair. Ended up getting paired against my other buddy Rob on Naya Burn (who I play every week at our local shop). Game 1 I'm on 2 lands and Looting away a Through the Breach; leaving with me Vengeance, no dudes, Izzet Charm, and a Bolt. I end up getting to 5 mana and draw Griselbrand, but can't get it in the grave in time before I die to Guide & 2 Swiftspears with Lava Spike and 2 Bolts.
Hadn't been happy with my recent performance against the deck and tried a new SB plan that went light on TTB and heavy on removal. This ended up being the wrong route to go and ended up just being overboarding. Mulled to 5 game 2 and ended up getting locked by an Eidolon and losing 0-2. Entire match took less than 20 minutes. Yup.
R2 vs 5C Zoo (2-1)
My opponent leads with something like an Ancient Ziggurat or Pillar of the Paruns, into Sylvan Caryatid, and I think to myself, "Okay, I got this." Not much to say, here. Emrakul did terrible things and we went to game 2, where I mulled to... 4? Still almost got there, but Siege Rhinos closed the game out for him. Game 3 I Emrakul him again and we're playing draw go for awhile. Finally get enough mana to activate Creeping Tar Pit and he rebuilt quick enough to start chaining Siege Rhinos again. I TTB in Griselbrand for the kill.
R3 vs Titanshift (2-0)
This match was weird. We both have terrible hands and start the match off with a mull to 5 each. He plays Search for Tomorrow and I realize this could probably go either way. I end up countering enough spells to slow him down until I buy time to start activating Desolate Lighthouse. This was the only time during the tournament that it really had a chance to shine. Eventually I find Griselbrand, and reanimate him on their end step. I draw enough cards to get Emrakul into play and attack for 22. Game 2 he mulls to 5 again but I'm pretty set up. Thoughtseize Snap Thoughtseize does serious work, and I eventually Emrakul him to death.
R4 vs Affinity (0-2)
I normally feel pretty good about this matchup, so it was unfortunate to lose game 1; my slow hand could not beat their fast hand. Game 2, I truly felt the pain of Desolate Lighthouse as it prevented what would have been a clutch Anger of the Gods. I never find the 5th mana source to TTB in Emrakul and I just die to Etched Champion beats.
At this point I'm 2-2 and need to win the next 5 rounds to have any hope of placing.
R5 vs Jund (2-1)
First time meeting Ryan Slone, whose name I recognized in the top 8 lists of several Legacy tournaments out here. I saw him beat my other friend earlier in the tournament so I know he's on Jund and that I'm in for a tough match.
Game 1 Jund does Jund things, rips my hand apart, and beats me down with 2CMC creatures. Game 2 we go back and forth enough that both our graves are pretty full, I'm holding Emrakul digging for a Through the Breach. He ticks up Liliana discarding Terminate and makes me discard Emrakul, at which point I have 0 cards in hand or grave. I topdeck Quicksilver Amulet, which he reads and says "Huh, that seems pretty good." I topdeck Griselbrand and pass. He tickets up Liliana again, and I Amulet in Griselbrand in response. He looks at the Terminate in his grave and laughs. I untap, draw, find Emrakul and TTB and a land, and 22 him.
Game 3 he brings back in Kolaghan's Command. Somehow he gets low on life (memory is fuzzy here, I think he's fetching and shocking aggressively) and Bolts become a real path to victory. I get in with a Griselbrand swing, putting him to 4. I play Collective Brutality choosing to drain and discard, while holding Bolt. He thinks hard, and Kommands, shocking me and making me discard. This would have set him up for the win next turn, but I show him the Bolt in response to Kommand and that's it.
R6 vs Merfolk (2-1)
This feels like one of my worst matchups, and I prepare myself to go home earlier than I was hoping to. He's on a mull to 5 and does nothing for what seems like 4 or 5 turns, but I end up with some awkward draws and find nothing while I'm digging, frantically, for any business. I never find it and die to fish beats.
Game 2 I bring in my new tech, Tasigur, but don't see it. I Emrakul him quickly and he scoops. Game 3 is one of the most insane matches of the day where I think I'm back on Grixis Control and I'm beating down with Creeping Tar Pit and Tasigur, burning fools out left and right. His team slowly shrinks as they chump Tasigur over and over. Tar Pit gets Spreading Seas'd. He plays a Lord and I kill it. Finds Mutavault and chumps Tasigur again. I Bolt him and he Dispels it. At this point he's got 3 cards in hand and I'm low on cards, myself, but it turns out his hand was full of just lands and eventually Tasigur closes it out. Tasigur, the Golden MVP.
R7 vs Esper Gifts (2-1)
Easily the coolest deck I faced all day, this one has Baral, Chief of Compliance, a ton of 1U counters, Lingering Souls, and Gifts / Unburial Rites. Eventually he's got a bunch of land and spirit tokens out, I push through TTB after it being remanded 3 turns in a row, but he has enough permanents to sacrifice to Emrakul that he doesn't care, chumps with a spirit, and kills me the next turn.
Game 2 is definitely more grindy and we're both playing control against each other. He doesn't find Baral this game, and I play Quicksilver Amulet after he taps out for Lingering Souls. He Surgicals my Vengeances on my draw step, but I drew the Emrakul, and put it in play while he's tapped out to avoid being blown out by Vendilion Clique (didn't know if he had it or not). He looks at Emrakul, says he has literally no way to deal with it, and scoops.
By the time game 2 ends, we have 5 minutes left in the round. I Emrakul him on turn 3 with Dispel backup and take the match with 2 minutes left on the clock.
R8 vs Affinity (2-0)
I'm 2 rounds away from finishing the swiss and have some weird second wind that pushes me to focus through how tired I am. I see I'm against Affinity again and am thankful for Fatal Push on Inkmoth. I believe I Snap Push another creature which buys me enough time to Griselbrand into Emrakul into a win.
Game 2 I change my SB plan up and don't overboard like in round 4, leaving in Remands and concentrating mostly on sweepers and taking only 1 TTB out as I'm on the draw. He tries to Blood Moon me but I Remand it, then Izzet Charm it the next turn when he recasts it. I Griselbrand him to 13 and set myself up for the win the next turn. He attacks with an Inkmoth, which I kill, and he passes leaving up Signal Pest and Springleaf Drum. I have enough gas in my hand that if I play TTB and it gets countered, I can still Looting into Vengeance on Emrakul the next turn anyway. I go for it, he looks at his life total, makes a sweeping motion with his hand and makes a sound like 'Yeah.' I put Emrakul in, he says, "Oh... I mean I had a response to that."
Awkward.
At this point I can't tell if he's trying to angle me or it was a legitimate misunderstanding. We've been making that motion the entire match to coincide with passing our turns. The judge gets called and starts to talk about backing the game up. I voice concerns as my opponent has information now that he previously didn't have. I mention the precedent that was set with the hand gesture when we'd pass the turn, and the judge rules in my favor that my opponent passed priority. He shows me the Spell Pierce and signs the slip. I show him my hand and tell him I would have had it the next turn anyway.
R9 vs Hatebears (2-0)
Last round. I lose the die roll and we resolve mulligans while we wait for the green light to start... only to get repaired. After a few minutes, we end up playing against each other, anyway, and I lose the die roll again. He leads with Razorverge Thicket into Vial, and I know I'm up against Hatebears. Never played against this match so I have to improvise. He gets an early Thalia, but I kill this as soon as I can so that I can go for it next turn. I face the terrifying choice of whether to fetch and win with TTB on Emrakul or get blown out by Arbiter from his Vial on 2 and lose. He doesn't have the Arbiter, and I nuke his board. He draws, passes, Tar Pit gets in to close it out and we go to game 2.
I believe he mulls to 6 on the play, and my hand is solid. He gets an early RIP out, which I don't have an answer for. It doesn't matter, because I have TTB and Emrakul again. He's got 2 Vials on 2 each, and I need to fetch for my 5th mana. I decide to go for it, again, and he doesn't have Arbiter nor Mindcensor, and I 15 him for the win due to him taking damage from Horizon Canopy damage all game.
I end up as the only 21 pointer to not make top 16 and come in 17th out of 237 players, breaking even on entry and gas money for the day.
---
The meta was crawling with Tron, though sadly I didn't play against a single one the entire day. Also would have liked to see how the Cheerios matchup is, though I didn't play against that, either. I did come away with some great observations from the day, however.
Trying the Rakdos version again since it's been picking up in popularity. Did okay with the build last FNM, beating Burn and Tron 2-0, losing to BW Smallpox, and Infect. Never lost a single match to Infect with the Grixis version I've been tuning since October, so that felt bad. Probably need to adjust my playstyle, there.
Rafael Silva top 8'd another tournament here with a list very similar to mine, only he's running Tasigur main instead of Snap and only 1 Remand. I'll probably switch back to my controllish version after testing the Rakdos version for awhile, and try 2 Sleight of Hand again. I already miss playing at instant speed, and miss Serum Visions, but I'll keep at this version for awhile.
Also want to say that all of your discussion here has provided great insight into this archetype, so I'm appreciative of that. Any constructive feedback or questions are welcomed.
Have people just not had the time to develop/test these lists yet or is there some consensus on why this isn't the way to be going that I'm not aware of?
List for reference:
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Breaking // Entering
2 Cathartic Reunion
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Kari Zev's Expertise
4 Serum Visions
4 Through the Breach
1 Blood Crypt
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Forbidden Orchard
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Collective Brutality
2 Dispel
1 Fatal Push
1 Murderous Cut
2 Painful Truths
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
1 Yahenni's Expertise
EDIT: I'm fairly certain printed out sideboard guides are against DCI policy, see what I can dig up later, but you might want to look into that man.
I still personally favor shoal over non-shoal builds. Winning the turn you get Griselbrand in play and combo-ing at instant speed is too great of allure for me and my win % has always been higher with shoal. If that deck is your style though, keep on rocking it and developing it. I spent months refining a RB "control" style build ala Cale Durward which was a lot of fun and I still pick up every now and then.
IIRC the rules are you can refer to prewritten notes in between games but during a game you can only reference notes you've made during that game.
Consider going up to 3 Pacts. I used to only do 2 and 1 Boseiju, but the bump to 3 has made it a lot better in the match ups where I want to board it in (U based control and Burn).
Land(19)
4 Temple of Malice
4 Bloodstained Mire
5 Swamps
3 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliff
Creatures (14)
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine WUrm
2 Borbrygmos Enraged
4 SSG
Sorceries (12)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night’s Whispers
2 Cathartic Reunion
2 Collective Brutality
Instants (15)
2 Desperate Rituals
1 Manamorphose
4 Goryo’s Vengeance
4 Through the Breach
4 Nourishing Shoals
Sideboard (15)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Pact of Negation
2 Fatal Push
2 Pyroclasm
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Shattering Spree
1 Thoughtseize
2 Blood Moon
SCG Indianapolis – Day 1
Round 1 – vs Margaret (RG Tron)
G1 I see a t1 mine and am chuckling in glee already. She gets a t4 tron with no action other than an active Ostone. I draw a bunch from the first Griseldaddy and refuel to kill next turn
G2 She doesn’t seem happy about the keep. Turns out she keeps a 1 lander+map hand. I promptly shattering spree her map. She does not find a land off t2 stirring and I t3 her. +2 Shattering Spree (relic, cage, random map snipe, wurmcoil) -2 Brutality
2-0 (1-0)
Round 2 - vs Adam (Ad Nauseum)
A pleasant fellow from the Midwest – says it’s his first big event and we talk about how we are enjoying our first big event atmosphere.
G1 I keep a very loose 1 land+hug/whisper+combo piece hand and never draw a land. He t3/t4 me. I mentally note that he is playing peer through depth, which I didn’t think was standard (maybe not)
G2 He peers t2 peer->seize and take away my brutality which I forewent for a cantrip. We draw-go for a bit until I Thoughtseize him and see a hand of 4 graces and Ad Nauseum. Neat. He has 2 blooms coming off suspend next turn. I take the AD Nauseum then start chaining combos where I keep refueling and I put a borb end of turn to burn two of his graces. Game ends with me with 7 cards left in deck and a TTB Wurm
G3 is may be the craziest game I played in the tournament. He starts with t0 Leyline. We both exchange cantrips/discards until around t5 where I have a naked goryo with Griselbrand in the graveyard. He has 3 lands (he missed a few landdrops), pentad on 2 and pentad on 1. Given that he hadn’t cantripped/filtered in a few turns I opt to go for the EoT goryo->Griselbrand so I can have more mana and thus more avenues to victory (I’m not sure if this is correct actually – theoretically he can win in response to my goryo’s at instant speed. I don’t think either of us is supposed to wait though). Turns out he had grace+Ad Nauseum and casts them. I goryo in response and start going off, intending summon a one eyed giant and throw prime real estate onto our opponent before noting the Leyline. Plan B is to shoal up to 35+life to deny him the storm kill, but that’s not likely with the cost being pay 7 life per 7 cards unless we draw perfect.
At this point I am resigned to my fate and am sort of planning my side event plans, but it hit me that lightning storm has a secondary ability – throw land to redirect. I proceed to draw through 54 cards of my deck, let the Ad Nauseum resolve, and we start trading lands. I started the land war at 15 life so he had to throw more lands first and I beat him and Griselbrand eats some storm. He had no way to filter for two blues for maniac+SV with SSG and pentad so turns out he was drawing dead at that point.
At this point, I was too busy thinking about how I am about to beat Ad Nauseum after grace=Ad Nauseum and we begin to talk about how he has very little outs given that he has zero cards in deck and is at 1 life. Of course, I was thinking that he’d taken a lethal hit with Unlife but in reailty he was at a negatively large life with no unlife and had no outs. Having realized this, a gent watching our match (was playing 8 rack and made it deep) called a judge, leaving both of us newbies confused, until the Judge clarifies that Adam indeed is at an arbitrarily negative life and would lose as soon as the turn is over. I would not have realized this and played on, and who knew what other rule mistake I would’ve made. Many lessons learned in the match. Thank you, kind stranger. 2-1 (2-0)
+1 Thoughtseize +1 Emrakul (Leyline) -1 Borb -1 Hug
Round 3 – Frank (Jund)
G1 He fetch+shocks a bunch and a t2 Borb, t3 borb is enough
G2 I keep a very questionable 4 land+wurm+SSG hand. I prioritized making land drops and card quantity>quality vs jund as hardcasting a top decked TTB/Monster is a realistic avenue to winning. I scry something good top but he t1 thoughtseizes me. Goodbye scry hello defeat. I do note a MD/SB Nihlil Spellbomb
G3 he goes t1 ravine, go. My notes says t2 Griselbrand, t3 TTB. Fair and interactive magic.
OTD: +2 EE (spellbomb, random hateful things) -1 looting (Card disadvantage) -1 Ritual (awful top deck and don’t need speed)
OTP: +2 EE, +2 moon -2 looting -2 hug 2-1 (3-0)
Round 4 – Mason Linne (Affinity)
He gave off the aura of a seasoned veteran. Later searched up some late-game GP videos with Affinity so definitely was not his first rodeo. This also isn’t a great matchup I think so I don’t feel great.
G1 my notepad says “OTD, t2 G+Borb ftw”. Cool
G2 there’s an interesting spot where on my t2 his board is tapped glimmervoid, tapped inkmoth, untapped Opal, ravager, ornithopter, pest and memnite. I have a pyroclasm and Shattering Spree. I can combat the life battle a bit with Shoals but the infect plan would be the worst and I feel like with an Opal open, I’m afraid pyroclasm to wipe the field would induce him to go all in onto Inkmoth with Ravager, so I opt to shattering Spree for 2 (Ravager, pest). He sacs both onto Ornithopter and I breathe a sigh of relief, which lasts one turn when he slams a Rule of Law (did not expect this). Luckily I have most of the combo pieces and EoT Grisel, sculpt a hand of GOryo, TTB< wurm, Shoal, SSG, SSG, x with a Borb in the yard. With 4 lands in play and stubborn denial not active (doubt affinity plays this?) and enough to pay for a pierce, I combo him out
+2 Shattering Spree +2 Pyroclasm -2 Brutality -2 Whispers
2-0 (4-0)
Round 5 – Jonathan (Jeskai Control)
A very pleasant fellow that I got to interact with a few times throughout the weekend. His friend was also the Cheeri0s guy with the degenerate SSG build that brutalized the Merfolks gentleman on camera in a very savage fashion.
G1 I see a bunch of U/R stuff and I’m not sure what he’s on but since I’m not under any pressure I just bide my time and sculpt my hand. Eventually I brutality to see snap nahiri GQ remand path path – Jeskai control. I was pretty sure I can eventually overwhelm him with EoT goryo/TTB/splice shenanigans and refueling with griselbrand. With 5 lands (4 colored and 1 GQ) he taps the 3 colored lands and 1 GQ for presumably a nahiri, then thinks about it and taps the 4 colored lands instead for Nahiri. I think huh but don’t think much of it. I end up comboing and put on the brakes early at a mere Grisel+Wurm, thinking a single GQ doesn’t do a thing. Of course I hurpdurp and do not realize that he can GQ his own land, get a plains, and path. Stupid me. I end up having to work much harder for a Borb kill that turn
G2 I don’t have many notes which means I probably combed him within 5 turns
+2 Pact of Negation +1 Boseiju +1 Spaghettio -2 Hug (really bad against remand/counters) -1 ritual (you have plenty of time) -2 Borb
2-0 (5-0)
Round 6 – vs. Greg (Jund)
G1 I see an overgrown tomb and stomping ground with him on the play before I t2 him
G2 I t4 him through IoK. +1 Emrakul (shocks mean 15 is usually lethal, clears scooze) +2 fatal push (confidant/scooze, more mana efficient but doesn’t hit a spellbomb or a cage of the sorts so maybe 2 EE is better) +1 pyroclasm (not sure)
-1 Borb -2 Brutality (not sure on this either, can take terminate/discard, can kill confidant/scooze sometime, discard outlet), -2 looting (attrition)
2-0 (6-0)
At this point I finished early and got to look around the top tables a bit. A lot of Death’s shadow jund (which likely is a bad matchup), bant eldrazi and eldrazi tron, with surprisingly some 8 rack (which I can’t imagine is a good match up and can be very easily locked out of playing). Also I noted a young Chinese guy locking some poor soul out with the lantern menace. I mental pray to RNGesus so I would not have to face him down the road – main deck needle/surgical/bridge, sideboard cage, efficient tutors – whatever could go wrong?
Round 7 – Max McVety (Infect)
I’ve seen him a few times during SCG broadcasts playing infect but am not sure whether he’d be on it still after the probe ban.
G1 he leads with a t1 glistener elf and I’m already mentally replaying the beatings I took in Vancouver. There was an interesting spot with me OTD on my third turn. I have the set up to t4 Goryo->Griselbrand. With him at 1 land (missed two landdrops) and 2 elves, I brutality discarding Griselbrand to -2/-2 and discard. Max thinks for a bit and casts mutagenic in response to save the Elf. I then see Vines, Blossoming, Become Immense, Sylvan Scrying and Mutagenic. I don’t believe the choice of Mutagenic/Become Immense mattered as long as I take one or the other, as otherwise even a fetchland would only bring him up to 5 effective mana.
I end up killing him next turn but after the game we discuss the line taken and conclude that if he had let the elf get -2/-2’d, he would have the win no matter what I take if he drew a fetchland, which he did. G2 I see him hemming and hawing before the keep and the thoughtseize confirms my suspicion – no threat with only a sylvan scrying, which I take. I end up killing him shortly thereafter.
I breathe a sigh of relief escaping a horrible matchup and start thinking about the possibility of running the table on day 1. Pretty exciting thought until I saw the pairing and saw myself being paired up against a Chinese named person, afraid of what that meant for me.
Round 8 – ZenMin Chen (Lantern)
My Fear is confirmed when we greet each other at table #1, eventually moving to the backup feature table. Part of my mind was already thinking ahead pondering what desperate sideboard tech I should employ against this horrendous matchup (t1/t2 blood moon seems good in theory..)
G1 I eat an IoK and he starts the lock engine going with a lantern and a shredder a piece. Bridge comes down and I’m about to mentally log out of g1. Eventually through discard he sees that I have the Griselbrand in the graveyard and 2 goryo’s but stuck on 3 lands and no additional mana (I had brutalitied him to confirm him having a surgical). He starts aggressively milling me off of lands. Around t6 I show a SSG off the lantern, which he shreds with his only shredder to reveal.. another SSG. I do the whole song and dance with griseldaddy escaping the grasp of the extraction with two vengeances and throw more real estate at him
G2 – We get to play out the end of our game on camera. Cedric/Patrick cuts to our game with me having nothing and Zenmin having a needle (Griselbrand), bridge, cage and Leyline. Rewind the game a few minutes – he t0 leyline, t1 cage, t2 stir->bridge, t3 bridge. I was sandbagging my shattering spree, thinking I need to be greedy and tag as many goods as I can to give myself the best chance, given he did not play any discards early I thought this was safe.. until he (presumably) topdecked a thoughtseize and buh bye shattering spree. t4 he Lost Legacy, naming Griselbrand, arriving at the board state. RNGesus returns the love with a top decked shattering spree to blow up the cage, needle and bridge and we are off the races to find business. I eventually get there with TTB->Wurm and I have dodged two gigantic bullets to start 8-0 against arguably my two worst matchups
2-0 (8-0)
+2 Shattering Spree +2 EE -2 brutality -1 Wurm -1 Shoal (could be horribly wrong – I reasoned that life does not matter and more often than not wurm/shoal would rot in our hands because we never get started so we’d rather remove potentially dead cards and try to go off by being dense in business/speed).
I strongly considered bringing in blood moon even on the draw, as we are capable through ritual/SSG to t1/t2 moon, which would shut down their disruption and search package (stirring/crane/fair), leaving them with double mox as outs for decay (not sure if they’d even leave the decay in there, but I don’t know how many dead cards they have against us) or otherwise playing a “fair” lantern game. Would like to hear from lantern players on how much blood moon would bother them.
At this point all I could think of was dinner, as I hadn’t eaten since 8 am and was afraid to try and run to the food court for food and be late for the rounds. Should’ve obviously brought some granolas.
Round 9 – John Sauer (Bant Eldrazi)
I think there were only 4 undefeated players remaining – nice. John was a nice guy who ended up making top 8. We greet each other and confirm the most pressing mater on both our minds – the grub for the night…
G1 He’s on the play and starts with a maindeck gemstone cavern. I am perplexed but make a mental note that no one trying to play fair would play this. Jig is up when he t3 skyspawners but I combo off before t5
G2 I have John never moving off 19 and I presumably got my realities smashed and thoughts mangled
G3 John mulls to 6 and goes forest->stirring->Cage. Cool. I think I had an EE which I played at 1. I was staring at a t3 goryos combo and already was counting the gold in my head but got TKS’d and Eldrazi’d into submission. Oops
+1 Emrakul (path, fetch/shock/brushland ping), +2 Moon (OTP), +2 EE (relic, cage, RIP) -1 Borb -2 hug -2 brutality.
In retrospect Emrakul> Borbrygmos may be bad, as the displacer lock can be online as soon as t3 and drowner is likely the end of us. I think we need an avenue to winning via tapping. 1-2, (8-1)
A bit disappointed at the last lost but stoked that my first SCG event started off very well with many ups and downs.
Day 2
Unlike the day before I arrive with time to spare and am mentally ready. My goal was to play as tight as possible and be in contention for a top prize come round 15
Round 10 – vs .Kent Ketter (Death’s Shadow Jund)
We have some nice smalltalk before being called into the backup featured matchup area. I remember him playing dredge last year on camera but have no idea what he’s brought
G1 the jig is up when he starts shocking/fetching like crazy, until he cycles a MD Architect of Thought (?!). Still ended up being death shadow and DSJ does DSJ things
G2 I keep a really loose hand of land, shoal, hug, 2 SSG, goryo, EE. I figure I draw a land and I am in a very good shape. He brutalities away my goryo and I never draw a land for the rest of the game, even through SSG->hug and SSG->whisper. A second EE and fatal push was not enough. Oh well +2 push +2 EE (good answers plus I saw some lists play canonist/eidolon of rhetoric) -2 brutality (never does anything) -2 Whispers
I debated bringing in Emrakul but ended up not even though they are most certainly going to be below 15 every time Emrakul would show up to the party. Problem is the circumstances required to play her can be quite restrictive (sorcery speed through looting/goryo, or 4/5 mana for TTB). There’s a decent chance Borborygmos becomes a relevant instant-speed blocker, plus there’s a good chance if I hold some lands over one goryo->borb would be enough
0-2 (8-2)
+2 push +2 EE -2 brutality -2 whispers
I considered moon - probably is pretty good otp?
Round 11 – vs. Kennith (Dredge)
G1 I see him play t1 copperline->looting. To think I almost extended my hand to high 5 a fellow unfair mage. He ends up spewing out powers onto the field and I am left in a weird spot I am at 7 life (thus cannot activate Griselbrand once) and have to Goryo Griselbrand during his attack phase facing lethal. He has a Conflagrate for 7 at the ready if the game reaches his second main phase – block+lifelink+damages would leave me at 14 life with him having +10 power, effectively facing lethal next turn. My hand was a bunch of disparate pieces (lands, shoal, goryo with no creature in the GY, looting) and mentally decided I need to draw 7 and pray rather than rely on draw+looting to get me there. For some godforsaken reason draw 7 before damage, allowing him to conflagrate me to death. Obviously should’ve done so at the end step so I don’t get burned to crisp – I attribute that to the previous two loses/sleepless nights..
G2 I have a t1 temple, and one untapped land away from t2 looting+SSG+goryo Griselbrand. Of course I draw a temple of malice and do not get to play. Per standard, I get thoughtseized two turns in a row and Kennith has dismantled my gameplan enough that his slow start did no tmatter. 0-2 (8-3)
At this point the 3 losses in a row were pretty disheartening but I understand the high variance nature of the deck and resolve to suck it up and play tight magic still.
Round 12 – vs. Anthony (GW Tron)
G1 I see a t1 stir->Urza’s tower and my heart feels all warm and fuzzy inside. He sets up tron for the first few turns while I t3 Griselbrand, t4 TTB Wurm I did not get to see his secondary color, so I brought in EE over spree to hedge
G2 he t2 map->thicket and t3 RIP’s me. Eventually I come to a game state of having 3 lands and a griselbrand activation+path on stack and I sculpt a hand of SSG, shoal, shoal, griselbrand, ttb, x. Notably I threw away a desperate ritual after not thinking about it too hard. He had tron next turn and punished me by karning my land, leaving me with 2 lands and SSG. Had I kept the ritual over x, I could’ve made 4 mana, spliced TTB onto shoal and gone off. C’est La Vie. I get ulamog’d to death
G3 he has an early RIP again and I’m durdling a bunch not drawing any business. Eventually he taps out for karn and Ihave an opening to either Breach a wurm or griselbrand, and I opt to go for the wurm and take the free 15 (path renders it useless). The death trigger gets robbed by RIP and he does not get to bring his friends. Next turn I Breach a lethal griselbrand which gets pathed and I refuel. I end up sculpting a board state of 5lands+1 more from path and SSG, SSG, SSG, TB, Griselbrand, Emrakul, Ritual with him having tron and 11 mana (could be 14 with a tower) which would’ve covered what I believe is the worst case scenario with 11 lands+land drop of ulamog->GQ->karn exile land.
+1 Emrakul +2 EE -2 Brutality -1 Borb
2-1 (9-3)
Round 13 – vs. Zac (RG Tron)
G1 he t2 stirs into a mine; Christmas has come early again. t3 Griselbrand->Borb
G2 I think I t4 him
SB: Same as Round 1
I see that I have a reasonable first tiebreaker and am hopeful I get a chance to right the ship and win out into the top 8
Round 14 – vs. James (Bant Eldrazi)
James was a real cool dude and we made smalltalk before getting into serious business – I find out he’s a grinder that’s close to an Invitational invite so clearly he did not get here by fluke.
G1 I ram a griselbrand into his displacer t4 and win through his displacement via Borb
G2 I kept 3 vengeance, mountain, ssg, whisper, shoal. Pretty risky without a black mana but I figure I have 17 black sources and If I draw one I’m a favourite to win (plus bant eldrazi doesn’t always have a fast clock.. right?) James ends up t2 stirring->cage and I get promptly dismissed
G3 is a crazy game where I almost punt. I value Griselbrand around t3 in the face of a path and make the first mistake of drawing before attacking in the face of a possible path without having a realistic chance of playing another monster into combat. I lose 7 cards that way but refuel to another hand with a lot of business. I Griselbrand again and sculpt a hand of Emrakul, Griselbrand,TTBs and mana, with Borb in the graveyard. In a few turns I go off drawing nearly the entire deck with the intent to vengeance borb for the win, with a few problems – 1. I boarded out 1 of my 2 borbs for Emrakul (which got TKS’d), and 2. I did not realize until I was 58 cards deep that all 4 vengeances were already in the graveyard. All the extra cards I probably didn’t need to draw even if I had vengeance was about to punish me and I spend an eternity in panic trying to sculpt a winning hand. James looks annoyed at this point which I do not blame but I try to hastily formulate a plan with 2 cards left in the deck and him at 11 life and the only Emrakul in exile. Wurm is the logical explanation but I only have 4 lands, am at a reasonably low life and that leaves being crushed by Path. A judge finally steps in and insists I make a move and I hastily assemble a 7 card hand with a bunch of griselbrands, 1 wurm, SSG and TTBs, which really didn’t matter. I pass, eat an attack and James leaves a white mana open to play a skyspawner, ending the line of two griselbrand breaches FTW. I draw my penultimate card, pitch SSG to Breach and wurm and hope for the best.. and get there
+2 EE (cage/relic/RIP) +1 Emrakul +2 Moon (OTP) -2 brutality -1 Borb -2 hug
Lack of reps definitely showed there. You definitely do not have to draw mindlessly if you can’t lose next turn – much better to reset next turn with more mana/resources.
After that game the standings go up and I am paired with Patrick, who led the 11-3 bracket with his tiebreaker at 9th and I was at 12th so winner was likely going to make the top 8.
Round 15 vs. Patrick Tilsen (Abzan)
G1 is uneventful – I eat a t2 inquisition but still t4 Griselbrand->loot->manamorphose->vengeance->hill giant. I am elated at the prospect of top 8ing the event
G2 he t1 IoKs away my hug, t2 thoughtseize, and Abzan gets to do Abzan things
G3 starts with ~14 minutes to go and we get on camera for the final half of our rubber match. But unlike the last camera match there’s nothing spectacular going on – Abzan playing its Abzan game with disruption and creature. Flayer does huge work here for Patrick – he must’ve binned around 8 lands digging for action. At some point I saw him bin away Goyfs early in games. He reasoned that though a clock, my clock was theoretically faster and goyf was too low impact, which I can see. At one point he has thoroughly cleaned out my hand through discard. I topdeck a vengeance and apologetically casts it on my Griselbrand, thinking I just sucked out badly, only to meet my rude awakening with the surgical. Granted, I could not have played around that but I felt silly not having considered that. Near the end, Patrick is frantically throwing out land for some action and at one point he bins path to exile with one card in hand, which made me believe the other card in the hand must’ve been another path, which made me believe I had very little outs as I’d already exhausted a few shoals/wurms. I did have a wurm in hand and Griselbrand in the GY – it turned out Patrick’s remaining card was an extraction, not path, which made him binning the path a mistake and gave me a ~3/45 chance to top deck for the win with him below 9 life. Alas it was not meant to be and I wish him well – that must’ve been the only mistake Patrick made in the match because everything else seemed as tightly played as it could have been. Well deserved top 8 and an almost-win – congrats!
Final record: 11-4, 20th
Conclusion:
*Deck definitely has the right power level, but loses to itself a lot. I’d love to include blue somehow for serum visions and some permission
*Traditional Grixis vengeance seems too weak – oftentimes a Grisel/Emrakul would not be enough. The Breaking Vengeance deck does seem powerful and potentially consistent enough that I’d like to try that out over Grishoalbrand to see if there’s anything there
*Changes to the deck going forward:
*Experimenting tormenting voice>cathartic reunion – rarely did I fist pump to discard 2 cards
*Removing pacts of negation altogether – maybe control will rise again with death’s shadow rising, but I don’t even think blue control decks are that tough of a matchup and burn can be navigated through carefully. I’d maybe keep the boseiju as a matchup breaker
*Pyroclasm could be upgraded to Anger.. maybe
*Blood Moon doesn’t seem that good right now, but maybe I’m wrong. The decks it’s supposedly good against like Bant Eldrazi (is good, but a lot of lists now play talisman?), Eldrazi tron (not actually good), Gx tron (not really good), valakut (you are already a favourite) aren’t really compelling enough even. Maybe a more high impact set of cards is needed. I considered Rakdos charm (artifact, GY, kiki chord) and Read the Bones (grindy) which I will test going forward.
Round 1 vs. RUG Traverse. I get there in the first game on turn 2 with Goryo's Vengeance on Griselbrand. In the next game, I make a mistake of going for Through the Breach and he does Dispel. I draw Pact of Negation the very next turn - PUNISHED. I end up drawing air and have to do a series of Nourishing Shoal/Wurm to stay alive, but can never quite discard to hand size. It didn't matter, as I didn't draw Goryo's Vengeance anyway. In the final game, I draw a midgame Inquisition of Kozilek and it shows a hand of Kiki Jiki, Huntmaster of the Fells, and 2 lands. I follow it with Through the Breach/Worldspine Wurm and it is exactly lethal with only a Snapcaster Mage to block and him at 14. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Jund. This was actually a very good match. In the first game, he gets stuck on 2 lands, then 3 lands for a bit and I get there with Griselbrand. In the next game, he gets an early Scavenging Ooze and rides it to victory. The final game was a very good one. He doesn't get pressure and I am trying to find pieces. He finally gets a Scavenging Ooze, then a Bob and Tarmogoyf. On the next turn, I Breach a Worldspine Wurm. Then I make a mistake of attacking both into a 5/6 Goyf, but he has to block with a 4/4 Scooze to stay alive. It doesn't matter because he finds nothing and I hard cast Griselbrand next turn, although I briefly considered doing Through the Breach/Splice Through the Breach to get both out last turn. I just figured that a hardcast Griselbrand is stronger and I won't die in a turn. My follow up was going to be 2 Simian Spirit Guide, as his Liliana of the Veil would be at 2 counters then. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. GB Tron. I literally play nothing this whole game but 4 lands and 1 Night's Whisper. I lose to Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog. In the next game, I go off safely on turn 3 after he mulled to 5 and only had 1 land. In the finals game, he does double Collective Brutality to take my double Goryo's Vengeance after I had gone to discard Griselbrand. But he can't quite find Tron after this and I do Through the Breach Wurm and he dies the next turn. He shows me double Karn, Ugin, and Ulamog. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Naya Burn, I think. I came with a friend, who presumably wanted to leave early, so I scooped since this guy didn't want to ID. My friend ended up talking to an old friend, so I think I had time to play it. Oh well. 0-2.
I finish at 3-1, which is solid after such a poor Regionals.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Round 1 vs. Mono Black lifegain. It was a new player and an inexpensive, ineffective deck. But at least he seemingly made decent plays. I turn 4 and 3ed him with Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm and that was that after some lifelink creatures and Blood Artist blocked. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Abzan Tokens. Not sure if you guys know this deck. Matt Nass played it. Mana dorks into Lingering Souls/Nissa, Voice of Zendikar/Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. She was beating me down in the first game, but did Gideon into a token instead of pumping her team. The other option was using her Gavony Township on turn 5 to put me lower. But I drew Through the Breach for my Griselbrand and drew enough to win. In the next game, she mulled to 5, found only Gavony Township, and I turn 3ed Blood Moon. That made it very easy. She shows me a hand of triple mana dork and triple Path to Exile. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. GW Tron. Easy matchup, right? Nope. He gets turn 1 Relic of Progenitus and I literally never have an opening, drawing 3 Goryo's Vengeance during the game. Since I had missed some land drops to Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm, he has his 1 Razorverge Thicket up after doing 3 Ancient Stirrings. Sure enough, he had Path to Exile as one of his two last cards. Much later when I'm about to die, I do Through the Breach Wurm and he takes it. But he draws Ugin or had Ugin and my tokens are gone. His Wurmcoil Engine tokens get it done. In the next game, I get turn 3 Blood Moon, as I keep with 2 Through the Breach, Blood Moon, and 4 land. But I don't draw anything. Finally I have to cast 2 Simian Spirit Guide to chump a Thragtusk and Wurmcoil Engine. Oh, I was suuuuper lucky to draw a Shatterstorm when he was tapped out to get Relic of Progenitus, Chromatic Star, Pithing Needle on Griselbrand (his turn 1 play), and an Expedition Map. That was indeed lucky, but I never draw more creatures than 2 Simian Spirit Guide. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Merfolk. This guy reaaalllly LOVES his fish. In the first game, I do Cathartic Reunion with 2 mana with his Cursecatcher in play. He thinks, then sacrifices. I exile SSG and the cards are good. I get there with a Vengeance a few turns later. In the next game, he basically did Dispel and Negate on 2 Goryo's Vengeance and Vialed 2 Lords and a Harbinger for lethal. In the last game, it is pretty drawn out. I kept on double Anger of the Gods, which basically won me the game. Finally I draw Through the Breach after having triple Goryo's Vengeance with double Relic of Progenitus in play for him. I Splice it on Shoal. He sacrifices Cursecatcher. I pay 1. He Vials in another and I can't pay, despite the fact that I have Pact of Negation in hand. On my next turn, I go with Through the Breach for Griselbrand and go off despite a Vialed Vendilion Clique, targeting me, and a Harbinger of the Tides targeting my Griselbrand. I draw enough lands barely and trample through with BoBo to put lethal on the board. Still had now 2 Pact of Negation after drawing with Griselbrand. 2-1.
I get 3-1 for 2nd place.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'll start off by saying that I'd be SHOCKED if SSG got banned. The card doesn't meet any known criteria for banning (Not in a top tier deck, regardless of pre-T4 wins).
Shoal would be dead since there would be no advantage to drawing your whole deck in a single turn. Some version of reanimator would still be viable (likely BR... maybe grixis) using Pentad Prism as a way to get to T3 Griselbrand or Emrakul, but it is likely just a worse plan overall. The Expertise based decks may also see an uptick in play, though that version hasn't really impressed me at this point. So... I'd probably go back to a version of Caleb Durward's BR reanimator w/ more control based elements. None of these versions feel as competitive (IMO) as shoal though.
I think honestly that players may think Simian Spirit Guide and Mox Opal have a target on their backs, but it's more wishful thinking that it would be the case so that unbans of known "fair" cards would actually have a huge effect. As it is now, some of the potential unbans don't seem to do much because the other decks are just too strong and tough to interact with (as a whole, not individually).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Carry on without the banlist talk!
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
It would be okay to say "Here's the list I would play without SSG:" and then discuss/present that list. It is not okay to speculate on the likelihood/reasons for or against that banning, or any other banlist policy/philosophy topic.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
You would preface it by saying "if xx got banned, I would play..." This is explicitly in the Modern subforum rules as a deliberate exception for decks that might get hit with a ban. So far, it's a common sense solution to an issue that affects very few decks and the rule hasn't been abused or taken to the extreme (i.e. people have only done it in a few cases when there was legitimate fear for a ban, and then that ban happened 1-2 weeks later). If users started looking to exploit the rule as a loophole or posted this kind of discussion in threads that are unlikely to be affected by bans, staff would step in and/or change the rule. So far, this hasn't happened and users have used good judgment to follow the rule.