nice report! Where does the chalice come in? I'd been thinking about it when infect/affinity were popular and it was a way to cheese them out. I guess it's pretty actually pretty good vs death's shadow variants.
When you side in Chalice of the Void, considering it at 1, do you side out Faithless Looting? That has been my consideration for not siding it before. Also, I have forgotten. Does Chalice of the Void on 2 counter all Storm copies of Grapeshot or only the original copy? (I feel dumb for asking, but I haven't had to know it in a while.)
On another note, I am considering taking out the 2 Fatal Push for 2 Engineered Explosives.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I've boarded in Chalice against Burn, Infect, Living End, Bogles, and various Blue/White Control variants. It's also the best sideboard card I can come up with vs Death's Shadow variants. Essentially, some of the deck's worst matchups are hyperaggressive decks or decks that rely on one mana hate cards to beat you.
What I've learned is that your sideboard cards have to be brutal. If they don't ruin the whole game, they're not worth running. If you have to play against vicious graveyard hate you have to play game-ruining sideboard cards yourself. Don't waste your time with garbage like Darkness and Fatal Push.
I don't side out Faithless Looting when I board in Chalice as it's still part of the god draw and if it's in the opening hand, Faithless Looting is still likely to be cast first. As you can see from my report I didn't bother, although it would be totally fine to shave them.
Finally, you can play Chalice of the Void for 2 and still splice Goryo's Vengeance onto another spell as long as the spell has a converted mana cost that isn't 2. A Nourishing Shoal pitching Worldspine Wurm splicing Goryo's Vengeance has a converted mana cost of 13 and the text of Goryo's Vengeance.
fair enough. I'm definitely eager to try out chalice- that was a tech I was thinking about before infect died down but still has broad applications.
I'm curious about other aspects of your list still. I've found that two is the right number for Moon as in the matchups that come in, comboing asap still is your plan A by far ( eldrazi tron kind og, bant eldrazi, DSJ? dorky coco variants.) And I'd rather not dilute too much
I also feel good having two artifact hate pieces as affinity is one of our tougher matchups and is prevalent.
curious to hear how you've liked running three hugs. the velocity is undeniable but I've had two many moments of feel bads when i have to discard a second relevant card. I've been running a split of hug/brutality and hug/voice.
brutality seems to give pretty good utility in a variety of matchups and they often come in for me in the place of hugs vs blue decks. how do you feel about them?
i definitely get the thought of including a third ritual as there have been many instances of needing the rit to get started while comboing. i haven't ever felt that way about manamorphose though and feel like that's better off as a whispers?
I am going to try Chalice of the Void. Wish me luck!
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Regarding Storm, nope, only the initial card gets countered. If the Storm copies would get cast, you would generate an infinite loop with no stop (since the storm copies would trigger storm again) ^^
Same reason, why you can Replicate through a Chalice.
Btw. if you get a Chalice on 2 out vs Storm, they are most of the times dead either way. They cannot combo through a chalice on 2 at all and would need to find a bounce spell, which again is most of the times the Echoing Truth which is shut down too.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
their only real out would be shattering spree. I checked a few 5-0 lists and they seem to be running 1-2 of them from the side. of course, no sane storm player would bring shattering spree game 2 so we'd get a free chesseout win in g2 should we resolve it
Played in a GP Vegas Trial yesterday. 9 people showed up, 4 rounds into top 4
Round 1: Naya Scapeshift
G1: He does ramp stuff and I get a turn 4 TTB->Wurm in. He sacs his only untapped land, a Wooded Foothills, for a Sacred Foundry and uses path on my wurm (?!?!). I'm still confused when he scapeshifts me for 18 within the next few turns.
+1 Collective Brutality (Scapeshift, Summoner's Pact)
+1 Emrakul (Path)
+2 Blood Moon
-1 Borborygmos (Emrakul)
-2 Hugs (Brutality replacing the 2 cmc slot)
-1 Ritual (turn 2 Moon is nice but it's more about getting Moon down than racing to get Moon down like you would in other matchups)
G2: I do my own things and set up a kill around t4 but he Madcaps into Emperion (?!). During the Madcap resolving I note several RIPs and Back to Natures. I breach in a Griselbrand but then mistakenly thinks I screwed up thinking Emperion shuts down lifelink. I ask a judge and he clarifies that damage is dealt and Lifelink happens - just that his life total would not change. I'm at 8 before a Griselbrand and draw 14 to see what's up. I unfortunately end up having around 10 lands in hand with 5 lands in play, so decide that I have to go for it this turn since it'll be far harder to combo off through Emperion without these hands feeding Borborygmos in play. I barely get there.
+1 Shattering Spree (Emperion)
-1 Swamp (on the draw, should be fine)
G3: t0 Leyline of Sanctity (?!?!). I didn't show up today to play scapeshift with Madcap, Leylines and RIPs.. He has a turn 3 Emperion and starts beating my face in. I turn 4 TTBing a Griselbrand (no land drop left/tight mana for the turn) and start drawing a bunch. I'm at a point where he has Emperion and Tribe-Elder with 4 lands and a Search coming off suspend in two turns so I am assuming I have maybe two turns. I am at 12 life and debate drawing 7 more with 1 SSG only and no shoal/1 wurm. I decide against it and discard and keep a hand containing Blood Moon, Shattering Spree, TTB, Wurm, land, SSG, x but conserve the SSG+spree as I don't want to lose to a second madcap next turn. I get hit down to 3, I untap, shattering spree the Emperion and slam Moon. He attacks me down to 2 with his Tribe-Elder and plays a second one. I untap, TTB Wurm, and the game is effectively over
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2: 8 rack
g1: He is on the play and t1 Thoughtseizes my TTB away. My hand is something like Looting, Griselbrand, and fast mana at that point. I play looting and bin Griselbrand while drawing into Goryos. He lays the Rack and I win.
+1 Engineered Explosives (x=1 hoses Shrieking Affliction and the Rack, as well as deal with any silly Cage/Relic shenanigans, though I later realize they wouldn't run Cage because of Raven's Crime. Maybe EE is just bad, although dealing with the Rack effects greatly slows them down and gives us time to topdeck a Goryo for the win when we are presumably hellbent)
-1 Hug (probably worse than Looting even though it's card neutral since you aren't likely to have 2 cards to pitch later on.
g2: He leads on the Rack which readies my alarm bells. I have the Griselbrand+Goryox2+SSG+ritual+2 lands, draw looting t1 and loot away my Griselbrand t1. t2 he just plays a second swamp and passes. Alarm bells are going off because what is 8racks keeping that doesn't have targeted discard? It smelled a lot like Surigcal Extraction. So I delay comboing until I can hit 3 lands and have two goryo's up. t3 he slams an Ensnaring Bridge - guess this was the reason he kept his hand. My fears are eased and I just jam Goryo eot without another one up and win
Next time I'd not do the push/ritual/looting swap at all, and bring in the 2 moons OTP
g2: I have a slow hand with lands+SSG+TTB+Griselbrand and hope to ramp up to 5 for TTB. My hands gets shredded and I'm stuck on 3 lands and with an opposing LotV, I abandon my plan of TTB and just hope for a topdecked Goryo to help me get there while my face gets beaten in by a Rhino and souls (I'd bin 3 TTBs to this point). The turn before lethal I topdeck a Vengeance and have 1 Shoal in hand. I attack first and then try to go off but end up in a game state where I can no longer draw, have a bunch of lands, but no TTB for my Borbogygmos in hand because I already pitched 3 of them and only have 5 red mana available with just a Wurm and no Shoal. Luckily my first looting yields me a Shoal and I finish my comeback
3-0 (2-0)
Round 4: Bant Eldrazi
g1: I have a turn 4 TTB Griselbrand but have my Thoughts mangled and Realities Smashed
I no longer bring in Emrakul vs Bant Eldrazi as Displacer is a common and annoying answer.
g2: I have a turn 4 Wurm that I have to resort to race his stirred TKS with but he has two pieces of acceleration and the game is never close.
3-1 (0-2)
Top 4/2: Prize split with me getting the byes
Happy to have the byes but still am not sure which deck I'll be taking to Vegas. I was planning to buy Grixis Shadows and take it there as Grishoalbrand was weak to the new death's shadow menace, but the modern metagame seems to be adjusting to deaths' shadow and maybe there's room for little ol' Grishoalbrand in a GP field. The power level certainly is high enough. I am concerned at the prevelance of Storm/death's shadow/Affinity in the first tier. I plan on testing the SB Chalice and see how I like it and then decide..
This was only my second tourney playing with Cathartic Reunion. The first I ran 4 and I quickly 0-2 dropped. Last weekend I ran 3 and they seemed okay but not great. From my experience (about 95 matches played at Regular and Competitive REL events) I've found that what you want most is digging power. I used to run a split of Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voice and am trying Reunion just for the extra digging. It seemed fine but I think that Night's Whisper might be better. I ran a 3/3 split because drawing two Night's Whispers is rough against the aggressive decks.
As for artifact hate, Pyroclasm and Anger are totally serviceable vs Affinity. Many of my losses are to creature lands anyway and the red sweepers can be brought in for other matchups with small creatures.
Chalice of the Void is the real deal and it's the best card in the sideboard. In addition to the decks I cited I also forgot that I've brought it in against Lantern Control, 8-Rack, Ad Nauseam, and Storm. It ruins several matchups and no one really expects it coming (e.g. a Death's Shadow deck is likely boarding out Kolaghan's Command, Living End and Burn players are not siding in their artifact destruction against you). Chalice made awful matchups like Infect winnable, and makes Burn and Bogles way easier. I did find that Chalice didn't cut it vs Affinity as it was only good if it was in the opener, and I didn't have time to play it for 2. I would consider running 4 of them as I've locked out Burn and Bogles with Chalices on 1 and 2.
The plan for most of my sideboard games is to either combo quickly or ruin the game with a sideboard card and win the garbage game that ensues.
The sideboard setup is still somewhat bad vs Affinity, Merfolk, and Bant Eldrazi though. I've been losing to random big creatures a lot. Any thoughts? Damnation maybe?
The sideboard setup is still somewhat bad vs Affinity, Merfolk, and Bant Eldrazi though. I've been losing to random big creatures a lot. Any thoughts? Damnation maybe?
I've always found Bant Eldrazi to be a favorable match up, but you can look at either Damnation or spot removal like Terminate (assuming big creatures = cmc and not just power / toughness). If your meta has a lot of merfolk, then fatal push would be a better choice for spot removal.
Hi all,
New to the board. I did a bit of hunting back, but didn't go through all 60 pages, so you may have already covered this.
Just saw a new (to me) list posted by /u/CJDwyer on Reddit who's playing a full playset of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Has anyone else tested this and have any feed back versus what I understand is the more common Rakdos build?
I tested baby Jace last year after the PT, since he looked rather great in the PT version (so Grixis no Shoal/Soul Spike/Fury version with Emmi). He was decent in there, especially since he bought a ton of time when you were able to flip him.
However, the downside was, he was very clunky and didn't progress you game plan more often than not. Multiple times I just played him on turn 2 (since I had to play him to start looting stuff away), just so that he dies to a simple removal spell (afaik there is no played removal spell which doesn't kill him). To make it even worse was, that the turn 1 Lootings were most of the times really bad with him, cause he would flip on turn 3 pretty consistent, which sounds great, but than you release you just lost your "draw engine".
You can see it with the "recent" developments of the Japanese guys, they switched the Jaces with Collective Brutality (this was pre Death Shadow Jund btw), since it was apparently just better than Jace in that shell.
I tried him in the Shoal version too, but the tax of going into U (life and manabase) combined with the overall problems of that card I went back to the classic BR Shoal version.
The only version, where I would play Jace (if I could find the room/a proper design for it) would be the Necrotic Ooze version. Here the question is, do you want to play G for Grisly Salvage (best cantrip for that deck) or do you want to go into blue for 1 mana cantrips + Jace (+SB cards), which is just nuts in that deck, since it is a combo Midrange deck.
So, tl;dr: I wouldn't play Jace in any version atm but the Ooze version.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
This was only my second tourney playing with Cathartic Reunion. The first I ran 4 and I quickly 0-2 dropped. Last weekend I ran 3 and they seemed okay but not great. From my experience (about 95 matches played at Regular and Competitive REL events) I've found that what you want most is digging power. I used to run a split of Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voice and am trying Reunion just for the extra digging. It seemed fine but I think that Night's Whisper might be better. I ran a 3/3 split because drawing two Night's Whispers is rough against the aggressive decks.
As for artifact hate, Pyroclasm and Anger are totally serviceable vs Affinity. Many of my losses are to creature lands anyway and the red sweepers can be brought in for other matchups with small creatures. Brutality main is probably bad in all but specific meta anyway because g1 you should be favored vs most of the field and the goal should be to get 'er dead fast brutality doesn't do that nearly as well as hug/voice would.
Chalice of the Void is the real deal and it's the best card in the sideboard. In addition to the decks I cited I also forgot that I've brought it in against Lantern Control, 8-Rack, Ad Nauseam, and Storm. It ruins several matchups and no one really expects it coming (e.g. a Death's Shadow deck is likely boarding out Kolaghan's Command, Living End and Burn players are not siding in their artifact destruction against you). Chalice made awful matchups like Infect winnable, and makes Burn and Bogles way easier. I did find that Chalice didn't cut it vs Affinity as it was only good if it was in the opener, and I didn't have time to play it for 2. I would consider running 4 of them as I've locked out Burn and Bogles with Chalices on 1 and 2.
The plan for most of my sideboard games is to either combo quickly or ruin the game with a sideboard card and win the garbage game that ensues.
The sideboard setup is still somewhat bad vs Affinity, Merfolk, and Bant Eldrazi though. I've been losing to random big creatures a lot. Any thoughts? Damnation maybe?
Digging is indeed our foremost worry, but in my experience more often than not the second card to discard with hug is something that has meaningful value. Looking at the metagame, Brutality's only good against Storm/Burn in tier 1. I still want 2 brutalities in the 75 so i may go 2/2 hug/tormenting voice MD, 2 brutalities side. that looks really off and newbish though D: I don't think I would cut Whispers though as it contributes to the g1 velocity and is invaluable against control
Affinity is still a bad matchup for us I think. I don't know what a good solution is either other than packing two shattering effects and pyroclasms really. Would love to hear what others are doing to combat the robot menace - they are currently the most played deck online
I've jammed around 10 games with chalice so far. Very first game I'm up against Grixis Shadows and eats a t2 Denial one game, and eats double Denial t2 in another. strangely for unresolved spells I felt really good about it.
This was only my second tourney playing with Cathartic Reunion. The first I ran 4 and I quickly 0-2 dropped. Last weekend I ran 3 and they seemed okay but not great. From my experience (about 95 matches played at Regular and Competitive REL events) I've found that what you want most is digging power. I used to run a split of Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voice and am trying Reunion just for the extra digging. It seemed fine but I think that Night's Whisper might be better. I ran a 3/3 split because drawing two Night's Whispers is rough against the aggressive decks.
As for artifact hate, Pyroclasm and Anger are totally serviceable vs Affinity. Many of my losses are to creature lands anyway and the red sweepers can be brought in for other matchups with small creatures. Brutality main is probably bad in all but specific meta anyway because g1 you should be favored vs most of the field and the goal should be to get 'er dead fast brutality doesn't do that nearly as well as hug/voice would.
Chalice of the Void is the real deal and it's the best card in the sideboard. In addition to the decks I cited I also forgot that I've brought it in against Lantern Control, 8-Rack, Ad Nauseam, and Storm. It ruins several matchups and no one really expects it coming (e.g. a Death's Shadow deck is likely boarding out Kolaghan's Command, Living End and Burn players are not siding in their artifact destruction against you). Chalice made awful matchups like Infect winnable, and makes Burn and Bogles way easier. I did find that Chalice didn't cut it vs Affinity as it was only good if it was in the opener, and I didn't have time to play it for 2. I would consider running 4 of them as I've locked out Burn and Bogles with Chalices on 1 and 2.
The plan for most of my sideboard games is to either combo quickly or ruin the game with a sideboard card and win the garbage game that ensues.
The sideboard setup is still somewhat bad vs Affinity, Merfolk, and Bant Eldrazi though. I've been losing to random big creatures a lot. Any thoughts? Damnation maybe?
Digging is indeed our foremost worry, but in my experience more often than not the second card to discard with hug is something that has meaningful value. Looking at the metagame, Brutality's only good against Storm/Burn in tier 1. I still want 2 brutalities in the 75 so i may go 2/2 hug/tormenting voice MD, 2 brutalities side. that looks really off and newbish though D: I don't think I would cut Whispers though as it contributes to the g1 velocity and is invaluable against control
Affinity is still a bad matchup for us I think. I don't know what a good solution is either other than packing two shattering effects and pyroclasms really. Would love to hear what others are doing to combat the robot menace - they are currently the most played deck online
I've jammed around 10 games with chalice so far. Very first game I'm up against Grixis Shadows and eats a t2 Denial one game, and eats double Denial t2 in another. strangely for unresolved spells I felt really good about it.
Tried 3 Chalice of the Void in the SB for the first time. I went 2-2 at a 26 person FNM, cut to 4 rounds.
Round 1 vs. DSJ. He Inquisition of Kozilek on turn 1, taking Goryo's Vengeance, but I turn 1 discard Griselbrand off Faithless Looting. A couple of draw spells later, I find another Goryo's Vengeance and win. In the next game, he does turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek again, taking a Chalice of the Void, but leaving another and Simian Spirit Guide. I do a Chalice of the Void on 1 on turn 1, exiling SSG. A couple of turns later, I find a land for Blood Moon and it is pretty easy from there. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Jund splash Nahiri/Souls. In the first game, he takes a Goryo's Vengeance on turn 1 and Through the Breach on turn 2. I Faithless Loot and Cathartic Reunion and find the winning pieces. He doesn't do another discard on turn 3 and I win. Well, I didn't technically win, but set up an unbeatable hand for next turn. In the next game, I do turn 2 Blood Moon after he turn 2 Tarmogoyf, turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. We don't play much after that, although I did a Collective Brutality to give me 1 extra turn, but a Cathartic Reunion found 3 more lands, so I would have had nothing to Breach anyway. He draws Lightning Bolt and kills me after the Goyf attack. In the last game after Faithless Looting, discard double Griselbrand, he does turn 1 Forest, Grafdigger's Cage. I do turn 2 Blood Moon. He does turn 2 Tarmogoyf and that's how it ends. I find nothing but lands and since I didn't play a land drop 1 turn to save cards for Cathartic Reunion, a Griselbrand couldn't have been cast off Ritual/Manamorphose. I think I would have been a Black source short though, considering I only had a single Swamp in play. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Skred Red. The 1 guy I carpooled with. I tried to avoid playing him, but after losing the last round, I am in his bracket. To be fair, I did miss another guy who has been a terror to play against. He runs Enchantress, which usually demolishes any deck I bring to the table. (since I don't bring Tron or BGx) On to the match! I turn 1 exile SSG, Cathartic Reunion, discarding Griselbrand and Wurm. He does turn 1 Relic of Progenitus, but it's too slow as I exile Cathartic Reunion and go off to kill him. In the next game, he doesn't have the turn 1 or turn 2 hate, only playing Ratchet Bomb on turn 2. I had the Looting, Vengeance Griselbrand play, but Temples made it a turn 3 play until I drew SSG to do it turn 2. I fizzle, but have Borborygmos Enraged in the GY and lands/draw spells in hand. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Grixis Shadow. Game 1, he turn 1 Thoughtseizes Goryo's Vengeance. He turn 2 Thoughtseizes something else, but later I draw another Goryo's Vengeance and splice in on Nourishing Shoal in response to Thoughtseize #3. I end up chaining off and his Gurmag Angler can't attack. In the next game, he takes my stuff with 2 Thoughtseize by turn 2 again, including turn 1 and Surgical Extraction on my Griselbrand, does Stubborn Denial, lands Gurmag Angler again and adds a Death's Shadow. I don't find anything and lose. In the final game, he does it on turn 2 with a mana up. He takes Collective Brutality and since I draw a 3rd land on turn 3, I go for Chalice of the Void for 1, expecting only Stubborn Denial. Nope, he Spell Pierces it and then runs out Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow again. I end up drawing a Goryo's Vengeance, but after a Faithless Looting flashback and Cathartic Reunion, I can't find Borborygmos Enraged with him at 4 life. 1-2.
Rough beats for me. This was the first time in a while that I have seen this much Death's Shadow/Thoughtseize decks, but if I don't always play here. I am strongly considering running Bogles with 4 main board Leyline of Sanctity next week if I play here, although I want as much practice as possible for GP Las Vegas in 3 weeks. Usually, having 11 draw spells and Manamorphose in a pinch makes discard not hurt so badly, but as we all know, draw spells don't guarantee anything. There's always those hands where draw spells literally only draw you Nourishing Shoals and Worldspine Wurms and nothing else. I know you've had those too.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
spell pierce in grixis shadows!?! certainly a bad beat there and correct to just play around denial - I've literally not seen one person play pierce in Grixis Shadows
What do we think about the new "Counters Coco" aka vizier/druid abzan coco? I've only played it a few times and I can't really gauge how consistent they are, but theoretically they could be as fast as us with 8 consistency spells and a backup dork beats plan. I'm thinking it may be bad considering we have no mainboard answers (again, it's debatable who is better g1. Think we may be a bit faster but less consistent) and only have pyroclasms/angers in the sideboard. This deck's seen an uptick online and though it's early this week's SCG stops' already shown a few of these decks already. Think this is definitely worth a consideration ahead of GP Vegas
What do we think about the new "Counters Coco" aka vizier/druid abzan coco? I've only played it a few times and I can't really gauge how consistent they are, but theoretically they could be as fast as us with 8 consistency spells and a backup dork beats plan. I'm thinking it may be bad considering we have no mainboard answers (again, it's debatable who is better g1. Think we may be a bit faster but less consistent) and only have pyroclasms/angers in the sideboard. This deck's seen an uptick online and though it's early this week's SCG stops' already shown a few of these decks already. Think this is definitely worth a consideration ahead of GP Vegas
I have this deck as well. I even made a solid $40 store credit off 10 extra Devoted Druids that I had from Limited waaaay back then.
It is pretty quick and fairly consistent without disruption. The main reason I haven't run it at tournaments is because disruption can often be tough to fight through. That being said, this is the version that I have been testing for a month now. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113264
But it is also slotted in Abzan Company WITH the Finks/Anafenza/Viscera Seer combo or put with Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder. I personally haven't tested all of them, but theoretically I like the version that I linked above the best.
I have played it a bit against Grishoalbrand and it is about 50/50. Both decks are blazingly quick with no disruption. I wouldn't be too afraid of it unless it's a local meta call - the deck shouldn't get above 1% at most.
*Regarding the Spell Pierce, yep it hurt badly. If I knew that my next 3 draws were lands, I could have waited and played around that as well. But then there's playing around Mana Leak or just having it Negated. It's just more frustrating that he had X answers for my X threats AND 2 threats to finish me off quickly while I stumble around with the rest of my hand. If his Y creatures lined up with Y Murderous Cut/Fatal Push, I'm pretty sure my draw spells would have gotten me there eventually. It's just that I only had 3-4 draws and they didn't get there.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
IMO this is going to be a real thing given that 1) it's the new and hot thing, 2)IMO the power level is there, and 3)some small sample evidence regarding its popularity in live events (there's been a bunch of MTGO lists playing Vizier). We have about 4 modern events in the next few weeks to confirm this though, but I think this is here to stay.
IMO this is going to tilt me towards playing pyroclasm>anger, as everything but Finks cleanly gets taken out by pyroclasm and 2 mana is a huge difference vs that deck. Anger's not going to take down Linvala/Eidolon of Rhetoric anyway
Just did this exercise real quick as I'm trying to decide what to play for Vegas and evaluate on a macro level how grishoalbrand is in the current meta. Seems like we have more bad matchups than good at the moment with the decline of tron and valakut variants. Based on my personal experience obviously and would love to hear if people disagree with my assessments (listed based on mtggoldfish's online meta from most popular and descending).
favorable?/Chalice?/Blood Moon?
Affinity - slightly unfavorable/OTP only, X=0/no
Gifts Storm - Slightly Unfavorable/yes, X=2/no
Eldrazi Tron - Favorable/no/yes (though it's not that great alot of the times, does buy us enough turns)
Burn - Favorable/yes, X=1 & X=2/no
Death's Shadow Jund - Unfavorable/yes, X=1/yes
Dredge - Slightly Favorable/no/no
Vizier Coco - Even/probably not (x=2 on the average is probably going to be too late)/yes..OTP?
Grixis Death's Shadow - Unfavorable/Yes, X=1/Yes..OTP?
Ad Nauseum - Slightly unfavorable/Yes, X=0, X=1, X=3/Yes
Titan Variants - Very Favorable/no/Yes
Merfolk - Very unfavorable/no/no
Bant Eldrazi - Even/no/yes
RUG/BTL scapeshift - Favorable/no/yes
Living End - Favorable?/yes, X=0/no
Eldrazi & Taxes - Unfavorable/no/no
Tron - Very Favorable/no/no
U/W Control - Slightly Favorable/yes? x=1 (dispel, path, relic), x=2 (leak, negate, think twice, blessed alliance, celestial purge)/no
Elves - Slightly favorable/yes OTP, x=1/no
Lantern - haha/yes, X=1/maybe
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On another note, I am considering taking out the 2 Fatal Push for 2 Engineered Explosives.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What I've learned is that your sideboard cards have to be brutal. If they don't ruin the whole game, they're not worth running. If you have to play against vicious graveyard hate you have to play game-ruining sideboard cards yourself. Don't waste your time with garbage like Darkness and Fatal Push.
I don't side out Faithless Looting when I board in Chalice as it's still part of the god draw and if it's in the opening hand, Faithless Looting is still likely to be cast first. As you can see from my report I didn't bother, although it would be totally fine to shave them.
Finally, you can play Chalice of the Void for 2 and still splice Goryo's Vengeance onto another spell as long as the spell has a converted mana cost that isn't 2. A Nourishing Shoal pitching Worldspine Wurm splicing Goryo's Vengeance has a converted mana cost of 13 and the text of Goryo's Vengeance.
I'm curious about other aspects of your list still. I've found that two is the right number for Moon as in the matchups that come in, comboing asap still is your plan A by far ( eldrazi tron kind og, bant eldrazi, DSJ? dorky coco variants.) And I'd rather not dilute too much
I also feel good having two artifact hate pieces as affinity is one of our tougher matchups and is prevalent.
curious to hear how you've liked running three hugs. the velocity is undeniable but I've had two many moments of feel bads when i have to discard a second relevant card. I've been running a split of hug/brutality and hug/voice.
brutality seems to give pretty good utility in a variety of matchups and they often come in for me in the place of hugs vs blue decks. how do you feel about them?
i definitely get the thought of including a third ritual as there have been many instances of needing the rit to get started while comboing. i haven't ever felt that way about manamorphose though and feel like that's better off as a whispers?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Same reason, why you can Replicate through a Chalice.
Btw. if you get a Chalice on 2 out vs Storm, they are most of the times dead either way. They cannot combo through a chalice on 2 at all and would need to find a bounce spell, which again is most of the times the Echoing Truth which is shut down too.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Round 1: Naya Scapeshift
G1: He does ramp stuff and I get a turn 4 TTB->Wurm in. He sacs his only untapped land, a Wooded Foothills, for a Sacred Foundry and uses path on my wurm (?!?!). I'm still confused when he scapeshifts me for 18 within the next few turns.
+1 Collective Brutality (Scapeshift, Summoner's Pact)
+1 Emrakul (Path)
+2 Blood Moon
-1 Borborygmos (Emrakul)
-2 Hugs (Brutality replacing the 2 cmc slot)
-1 Ritual (turn 2 Moon is nice but it's more about getting Moon down than racing to get Moon down like you would in other matchups)
G2: I do my own things and set up a kill around t4 but he Madcaps into Emperion (?!). During the Madcap resolving I note several RIPs and Back to Natures. I breach in a Griselbrand but then mistakenly thinks I screwed up thinking Emperion shuts down lifelink. I ask a judge and he clarifies that damage is dealt and Lifelink happens - just that his life total would not change. I'm at 8 before a Griselbrand and draw 14 to see what's up. I unfortunately end up having around 10 lands in hand with 5 lands in play, so decide that I have to go for it this turn since it'll be far harder to combo off through Emperion without these hands feeding Borborygmos in play. I barely get there.
+1 Shattering Spree (Emperion)
-1 Swamp (on the draw, should be fine)
G3: t0 Leyline of Sanctity (?!?!). I didn't show up today to play scapeshift with Madcap, Leylines and RIPs.. He has a turn 3 Emperion and starts beating my face in. I turn 4 TTBing a Griselbrand (no land drop left/tight mana for the turn) and start drawing a bunch. I'm at a point where he has Emperion and Tribe-Elder with 4 lands and a Search coming off suspend in two turns so I am assuming I have maybe two turns. I am at 12 life and debate drawing 7 more with 1 SSG only and no shoal/1 wurm. I decide against it and discard and keep a hand containing Blood Moon, Shattering Spree, TTB, Wurm, land, SSG, x but conserve the SSG+spree as I don't want to lose to a second madcap next turn. I get hit down to 3, I untap, shattering spree the Emperion and slam Moon. He attacks me down to 2 with his Tribe-Elder and plays a second one. I untap, TTB Wurm, and the game is effectively over
1-0 (2-1)
Round 2: 8 rack
g1: He is on the play and t1 Thoughtseizes my TTB away. My hand is something like Looting, Griselbrand, and fast mana at that point. I play looting and bin Griselbrand while drawing into Goryos. He lays the Rack and I win.
+1 Engineered Explosives (x=1 hoses Shrieking Affliction and the Rack, as well as deal with any silly Cage/Relic shenanigans, though I later realize they wouldn't run Cage because of Raven's Crime. Maybe EE is just bad, although dealing with the Rack effects greatly slows them down and gives us time to topdeck a Goryo for the win when we are presumably hellbent)
-1 Hug (probably worse than Looting even though it's card neutral since you aren't likely to have 2 cards to pitch later on.
g2: He leads on the Rack which readies my alarm bells. I have the Griselbrand+Goryox2+SSG+ritual+2 lands, draw looting t1 and loot away my Griselbrand t1. t2 he just plays a second swamp and passes. Alarm bells are going off because what is 8racks keeping that doesn't have targeted discard? It smelled a lot like Surigcal Extraction. So I delay comboing until I can hit 3 lands and have two goryo's up. t3 he slams an Ensnaring Bridge - guess this was the reason he kept his hand. My fears are eased and I just jam Goryo eot without another one up and win
2-0 (2-0)
r3: Abzan
g1: standard t3 combo. nothing to see here
+1 Emrakul
+2 Push (Scooze, creatures, although this actually probably bad)
-1 Desperate Ritual
-1 Borborygmos
-1 Faithless Looting (Card disadvantage)
Next time I'd not do the push/ritual/looting swap at all, and bring in the 2 moons OTP
g2: I have a slow hand with lands+SSG+TTB+Griselbrand and hope to ramp up to 5 for TTB. My hands gets shredded and I'm stuck on 3 lands and with an opposing LotV, I abandon my plan of TTB and just hope for a topdecked Goryo to help me get there while my face gets beaten in by a Rhino and souls (I'd bin 3 TTBs to this point). The turn before lethal I topdeck a Vengeance and have 1 Shoal in hand. I attack first and then try to go off but end up in a game state where I can no longer draw, have a bunch of lands, but no TTB for my Borbogygmos in hand because I already pitched 3 of them and only have 5 red mana available with just a Wurm and no Shoal. Luckily my first looting yields me a Shoal and I finish my comeback
3-0 (2-0)
Round 4: Bant Eldrazi
g1: I have a turn 4 TTB Griselbrand but have my Thoughts mangled and Realities Smashed
+1 Engineered Explosives (RIP, cage, shenanigans)
+2 Blood Moon
-1 Night's Whisper
-1 Desperate Ritual
-1 Hug
I no longer bring in Emrakul vs Bant Eldrazi as Displacer is a common and annoying answer.
g2: I have a turn 4 Wurm that I have to resort to race his stirred TKS with but he has two pieces of acceleration and the game is never close.
3-1 (0-2)
Top 4/2: Prize split with me getting the byes
Happy to have the byes but still am not sure which deck I'll be taking to Vegas. I was planning to buy Grixis Shadows and take it there as Grishoalbrand was weak to the new death's shadow menace, but the modern metagame seems to be adjusting to deaths' shadow and maybe there's room for little ol' Grishoalbrand in a GP field. The power level certainly is high enough. I am concerned at the prevelance of Storm/death's shadow/Affinity in the first tier. I plan on testing the SB Chalice and see how I like it and then decide..
This was only my second tourney playing with Cathartic Reunion. The first I ran 4 and I quickly 0-2 dropped. Last weekend I ran 3 and they seemed okay but not great. From my experience (about 95 matches played at Regular and Competitive REL events) I've found that what you want most is digging power. I used to run a split of Night's Whisper and Tormenting Voice and am trying Reunion just for the extra digging. It seemed fine but I think that Night's Whisper might be better. I ran a 3/3 split because drawing two Night's Whispers is rough against the aggressive decks.
As for artifact hate, Pyroclasm and Anger are totally serviceable vs Affinity. Many of my losses are to creature lands anyway and the red sweepers can be brought in for other matchups with small creatures.
Chalice of the Void is the real deal and it's the best card in the sideboard. In addition to the decks I cited I also forgot that I've brought it in against Lantern Control, 8-Rack, Ad Nauseam, and Storm. It ruins several matchups and no one really expects it coming (e.g. a Death's Shadow deck is likely boarding out Kolaghan's Command, Living End and Burn players are not siding in their artifact destruction against you). Chalice made awful matchups like Infect winnable, and makes Burn and Bogles way easier. I did find that Chalice didn't cut it vs Affinity as it was only good if it was in the opener, and I didn't have time to play it for 2. I would consider running 4 of them as I've locked out Burn and Bogles with Chalices on 1 and 2.
The plan for most of my sideboard games is to either combo quickly or ruin the game with a sideboard card and win the garbage game that ensues.
The sideboard setup is still somewhat bad vs Affinity, Merfolk, and Bant Eldrazi though. I've been losing to random big creatures a lot. Any thoughts? Damnation maybe?
I've always found Bant Eldrazi to be a favorable match up, but you can look at either Damnation or spot removal like Terminate (assuming big creatures = cmc and not just power / toughness). If your meta has a lot of merfolk, then fatal push would be a better choice for spot removal.
New to the board. I did a bit of hunting back, but didn't go through all 60 pages, so you may have already covered this.
Just saw a new (to me) list posted by /u/CJDwyer on Reddit who's playing a full playset of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Has anyone else tested this and have any feed back versus what I understand is the more common Rakdos build?
Here's the Grixshoalbrand List:
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
Spells:
2 Collective Brutality
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Serum Visions
2 Through the Breach
1 Collective Brutality
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Duress
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pact of Negation
2 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
1 Through the Breach
My current list:
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
4 Swamp
1 Temple of Malice
Creatures:
4 Griselbrand
4 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Worldspine Wurm
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Cathartic Reunion
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Manamorphose
4 Night's Whisper
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Collective Brutality
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pact of Negation
1 Pyroclasm
1 Read the Bones
2 Shattering Spree
However, the downside was, he was very clunky and didn't progress you game plan more often than not. Multiple times I just played him on turn 2 (since I had to play him to start looting stuff away), just so that he dies to a simple removal spell (afaik there is no played removal spell which doesn't kill him). To make it even worse was, that the turn 1 Lootings were most of the times really bad with him, cause he would flip on turn 3 pretty consistent, which sounds great, but than you release you just lost your "draw engine".
You can see it with the "recent" developments of the Japanese guys, they switched the Jaces with Collective Brutality (this was pre Death Shadow Jund btw), since it was apparently just better than Jace in that shell.
I tried him in the Shoal version too, but the tax of going into U (life and manabase) combined with the overall problems of that card I went back to the classic BR Shoal version.
The only version, where I would play Jace (if I could find the room/a proper design for it) would be the Necrotic Ooze version. Here the question is, do you want to play G for Grisly Salvage (best cantrip for that deck) or do you want to go into blue for 1 mana cantrips + Jace (+SB cards), which is just nuts in that deck, since it is a combo Midrange deck.
So, tl;dr: I wouldn't play Jace in any version atm but the Ooze version.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Digging is indeed our foremost worry, but in my experience more often than not the second card to discard with hug is something that has meaningful value. Looking at the metagame, Brutality's only good against Storm/Burn in tier 1. I still want 2 brutalities in the 75 so i may go 2/2 hug/tormenting voice MD, 2 brutalities side. that looks really off and newbish though D: I don't think I would cut Whispers though as it contributes to the g1 velocity and is invaluable against control
Affinity is still a bad matchup for us I think. I don't know what a good solution is either other than packing two shattering effects and pyroclasms really. Would love to hear what others are doing to combat the robot menace - they are currently the most played deck online
I've jammed around 10 games with chalice so far. Very first game I'm up against Grixis Shadows and eats a t2 Denial one game, and eats double Denial t2 in another. strangely for unresolved spells I felt really good about it.
Digging is indeed our foremost worry, but in my experience more often than not the second card to discard with hug is something that has meaningful value. Looking at the metagame, Brutality's only good against Storm/Burn in tier 1. I still want 2 brutalities in the 75 so i may go 2/2 hug/tormenting voice MD, 2 brutalities side. that looks really off and newbish though D: I don't think I would cut Whispers though as it contributes to the g1 velocity and is invaluable against control
Affinity is still a bad matchup for us I think. I don't know what a good solution is either other than packing two shattering effects and pyroclasms really. Would love to hear what others are doing to combat the robot menace - they are currently the most played deck online
I've jammed around 10 games with chalice so far. Very first game I'm up against Grixis Shadows and eats a t2 Denial one game, and eats double Denial t2 in another. strangely for unresolved spells I felt really good about it.
Round 1 vs. DSJ. He Inquisition of Kozilek on turn 1, taking Goryo's Vengeance, but I turn 1 discard Griselbrand off Faithless Looting. A couple of draw spells later, I find another Goryo's Vengeance and win. In the next game, he does turn 1 Inquisition of Kozilek again, taking a Chalice of the Void, but leaving another and Simian Spirit Guide. I do a Chalice of the Void on 1 on turn 1, exiling SSG. A couple of turns later, I find a land for Blood Moon and it is pretty easy from there. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Jund splash Nahiri/Souls. In the first game, he takes a Goryo's Vengeance on turn 1 and Through the Breach on turn 2. I Faithless Loot and Cathartic Reunion and find the winning pieces. He doesn't do another discard on turn 3 and I win. Well, I didn't technically win, but set up an unbeatable hand for next turn. In the next game, I do turn 2 Blood Moon after he turn 2 Tarmogoyf, turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. We don't play much after that, although I did a Collective Brutality to give me 1 extra turn, but a Cathartic Reunion found 3 more lands, so I would have had nothing to Breach anyway. He draws Lightning Bolt and kills me after the Goyf attack. In the last game after Faithless Looting, discard double Griselbrand, he does turn 1 Forest, Grafdigger's Cage. I do turn 2 Blood Moon. He does turn 2 Tarmogoyf and that's how it ends. I find nothing but lands and since I didn't play a land drop 1 turn to save cards for Cathartic Reunion, a Griselbrand couldn't have been cast off Ritual/Manamorphose. I think I would have been a Black source short though, considering I only had a single Swamp in play. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Skred Red. The 1 guy I carpooled with. I tried to avoid playing him, but after losing the last round, I am in his bracket. To be fair, I did miss another guy who has been a terror to play against. He runs Enchantress, which usually demolishes any deck I bring to the table. (since I don't bring Tron or BGx) On to the match! I turn 1 exile SSG, Cathartic Reunion, discarding Griselbrand and Wurm. He does turn 1 Relic of Progenitus, but it's too slow as I exile Cathartic Reunion and go off to kill him. In the next game, he doesn't have the turn 1 or turn 2 hate, only playing Ratchet Bomb on turn 2. I had the Looting, Vengeance Griselbrand play, but Temples made it a turn 3 play until I drew SSG to do it turn 2. I fizzle, but have Borborygmos Enraged in the GY and lands/draw spells in hand. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Grixis Shadow. Game 1, he turn 1 Thoughtseizes Goryo's Vengeance. He turn 2 Thoughtseizes something else, but later I draw another Goryo's Vengeance and splice in on Nourishing Shoal in response to Thoughtseize #3. I end up chaining off and his Gurmag Angler can't attack. In the next game, he takes my stuff with 2 Thoughtseize by turn 2 again, including turn 1 and Surgical Extraction on my Griselbrand, does Stubborn Denial, lands Gurmag Angler again and adds a Death's Shadow. I don't find anything and lose. In the final game, he does it on turn 2 with a mana up. He takes Collective Brutality and since I draw a 3rd land on turn 3, I go for Chalice of the Void for 1, expecting only Stubborn Denial. Nope, he Spell Pierces it and then runs out Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow again. I end up drawing a Goryo's Vengeance, but after a Faithless Looting flashback and Cathartic Reunion, I can't find Borborygmos Enraged with him at 4 life. 1-2.
Rough beats for me. This was the first time in a while that I have seen this much Death's Shadow/Thoughtseize decks, but if I don't always play here. I am strongly considering running Bogles with 4 main board Leyline of Sanctity next week if I play here, although I want as much practice as possible for GP Las Vegas in 3 weeks. Usually, having 11 draw spells and Manamorphose in a pinch makes discard not hurt so badly, but as we all know, draw spells don't guarantee anything. There's always those hands where draw spells literally only draw you Nourishing Shoals and Worldspine Wurms and nothing else. I know you've had those too.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I have this deck as well. I even made a solid $40 store credit off 10 extra Devoted Druids that I had from Limited waaaay back then.
It is pretty quick and fairly consistent without disruption. The main reason I haven't run it at tournaments is because disruption can often be tough to fight through. That being said, this is the version that I have been testing for a month now.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113264
But it is also slotted in Abzan Company WITH the Finks/Anafenza/Viscera Seer combo or put with Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder. I personally haven't tested all of them, but theoretically I like the version that I linked above the best.
I have played it a bit against Grishoalbrand and it is about 50/50. Both decks are blazingly quick with no disruption. I wouldn't be too afraid of it unless it's a local meta call - the deck shouldn't get above 1% at most.
*Regarding the Spell Pierce, yep it hurt badly. If I knew that my next 3 draws were lands, I could have waited and played around that as well. But then there's playing around Mana Leak or just having it Negated. It's just more frustrating that he had X answers for my X threats AND 2 threats to finish me off quickly while I stumble around with the rest of my hand. If his Y creatures lined up with Y Murderous Cut/Fatal Push, I'm pretty sure my draw spells would have gotten me there eventually. It's just that I only had 3-4 draws and they didn't get there.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=36&t[T2]=28&start_date=2017-05-21&end_date=2017-05-21&state=KY&city=Louisville&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks
IMO this is going to be a real thing given that 1) it's the new and hot thing, 2)IMO the power level is there, and 3)some small sample evidence regarding its popularity in live events (there's been a bunch of MTGO lists playing Vizier). We have about 4 modern events in the next few weeks to confirm this though, but I think this is here to stay.
IMO this is going to tilt me towards playing pyroclasm>anger, as everything but Finks cleanly gets taken out by pyroclasm and 2 mana is a huge difference vs that deck. Anger's not going to take down Linvala/Eidolon of Rhetoric anyway
favorable?/Chalice?/Blood Moon?
Affinity - slightly unfavorable/OTP only, X=0/no
Gifts Storm - Slightly Unfavorable/yes, X=2/no
Eldrazi Tron - Favorable/no/yes (though it's not that great alot of the times, does buy us enough turns)
Burn - Favorable/yes, X=1 & X=2/no
Death's Shadow Jund - Unfavorable/yes, X=1/yes
Dredge - Slightly Favorable/no/no
Vizier Coco - Even/probably not (x=2 on the average is probably going to be too late)/yes..OTP?
Grixis Death's Shadow - Unfavorable/Yes, X=1/Yes..OTP?
Ad Nauseum - Slightly unfavorable/Yes, X=0, X=1, X=3/Yes
Titan Variants - Very Favorable/no/Yes
Merfolk - Very unfavorable/no/no
Bant Eldrazi - Even/no/yes
RUG/BTL scapeshift - Favorable/no/yes
Living End - Favorable?/yes, X=0/no
Eldrazi & Taxes - Unfavorable/no/no
Tron - Very Favorable/no/no
U/W Control - Slightly Favorable/yes? x=1 (dispel, path, relic), x=2 (leak, negate, think twice, blessed alliance, celestial purge)/no
Elves - Slightly favorable/yes OTP, x=1/no
Lantern - haha/yes, X=1/maybe