I can totaly agree on the arguments about the mindset you both have. Regarding results is Abzan the way to go. It has taking some places in top 8 and is mostly played.
Next to that, it is always good to think about the fundamentations of the deck. My 5 cents are that it is a combo deck with midrange beatdown possibility. Jack of all indeed, but not a master of one.
I agree with pokken on card choices, six one mana dorks and four druid's acopanied with four finks/knight.
I am going to test the value company build from Todd. Azusa, Excavator and Ghost Quarter in a deck with Knight seems bonkers.
I can totaly agree on the arguments about the mindset you both have. Regarding results is Abzan the way to go. It has taking some places in top 8 and is mostly played.
Next to that, it is always good to think about the fundamentations of the deck. My 5 cents are that it is a combo deck with midrange beatdown possibility. Jack of all indeed, but not a master of one.
I agree with pokken on card choices, six one mana dorks and four druid's acopanied with four finks/knight.
I am going to test the value company build from Todd. Azusa, Excavator and Ghost Quarter in a deck with Knight seems bonkers.
Certainly true that Abzan Combo Company has more results than Naya (or Bant) versions, but I've also not really seen anyone else playing Naya other than Pokken and another guy in my area who's doing really well with it. I'm okay with that; I'm doing pretty well with it and happy to be flying below the radar. The list I played last week is below.
Still on the fence about the Crusader in the main - when it's good it's amazing, and having a silver bullet against GBx and Death's Shadow is great, and I've won several games on one Crusader alone. But it's not great against anything else. I may move that to the sb, have 2 sb Crusaders, and drop a Tracker instead. Maybe put a 3rd Heirarch in? Dunno.
R1: Ponza
G1: T2, Blood Moon. T3, Bolt my only dork. GG, all mountains.
G2: Mull into 2 forests, dork, Vizier. Top deck Druid T2... Combo out vs no removal.
G3: She was holding Moon in her hand and I had no outs, but she decided not to play it favoring Chameleon Colossus on T2. I combo out T5 with no basics in play and no dorks.
I consider this a loss, she even said she realizes she should have played the Moon on T2... I don't know. She seemed like she just learned to play, I was teaching as much as I was playing. She seemed pretty on point in G1 with the whole mana denial thing, but G2 she didn't know what the combo even was and G3... Not hating, everyone is new at some point, I'm just lost on her skill/ability G1 vs G3; maybe you had to be there to really get it but she seemed pretty confident in G1, played fast, no questions, "this is what my plan is" mantra.
1-0
R2: Elves (never saw company)
G1: We both kept moderate hands, I T2 finks, T3 finks, and top a Crusader, but he explodes on T3 with a 5 for 5 Lead the Stampede dropping the whole thing into play and Ezuri, Renegade Leader for +9/+9 on T4.
G2: I keep T3 combo, knocks me off with Abrupt Decay and I didn't recover. He attacked for 13 on T4 leaving me at 3 with 3 Vizier in hand.
Not much to say. Raced, lost.
1-1
R3: Jeskai Control
G1: Combo T5, I guess he hadn't played Modern in like a year, looked up the top 8 lists and built a board... Guess we're not in the top 8 lists since he didn't know the combo.
G2: Really durdly game, but I locked him out once he hit 3 life with Athreos and Evolutionary Leap. All my blocks get more blockers. He just scooped to the soft lock after I started looping Sin Collector twice a turn.
Weird how many people didn't know Druid/Vizier was a thing today. I think I was honestly the only one playing it in a 42 player pool.
2-1
R4: Grixis Shadow
This is what I wanted to see, you can tell from my main board that I was hating from the start. Probably also why I lost to Moons all day.
G1: T3 Mirran after he kills a Druid. He doesn't find a Lili to even attempt to force me to sac it. I sit long enough to go infinite life, he scoops to Athreos' inevitability vs Shadow.
G2: Finks game for awhile, I have 2 one died and came back. Blood Baron T6, he Anger of the Gods but Blood Baron is 4/4 and now massing counters while blocking with other durdly plays. As soon as I make lethal (7) I swing for the win.
3-1
R5: Goblins
G1: He is on the play. T3 combo while at 6 life vs no removal.
G2: On T4 or T5(?) I end up having to choose between Phyrexian Crusader and CoCo with an active Druid on the table with Rhonas in my hand. I chose CoCo (opinions?), hit Finks/Witness two turns in a row and think I'm totally in the clear on 12 life and 2 Finks in play yet. He plays Blood Moon, then Anger, then just pecks with 1/1s that he top decked.
G3: This was honestly really close, he was at 4, I was at 5. I was forcing Athreos triggers getting Finks value, it was looking decent. Blood Moon vs 1 forest. I flounder on CoCo into Witness for two turns and gain nothing of note. He plays 2 Goblin Lords and out classes me on defense while also gaining mountain walk for his team of 3/3 or bigger. I was pretty disappointed because I had an active Druid, active Athreos (3 Finks), and had just played Rhonas (also active), so my turtle set up was basically complete and I only had to break the Moon.
3-2
R6: Ponza!
G1: Blood Moon, T2. Inferno T4.
G2: Mull trying to find Qasali or Sage, hit 5 cards: Heath, Plains, Druid, CoCo, Finks. No Moon until T5, but he sure double Inferno Titan'd well enough. My T2 Druid took a bolt, nothing I drew mattered.
3-3
I way over prepared for Shadow. I was also looking to hedge vs GW Hate Bears with the 3 filter lands; a few test matches left me landless against Arbiter. I was not expecting this many Blood Moon decks in the least; I played against 3, but I saw at least 2 more I didn't play against. Where as there was only 1 Hate Bears. Maybe I just need to read the meta better?
Otherwise, things seemed to go well:
Athreos was awesome against Jeskai Control, he came down both games and just pleasantly started eating life or gaining value. R1 vs Ponza, he did the same saving some things from Bolts. He did work in other games, but nothing so back breaking.
I was glad to see Blood Baron stood up in a game vs Shadow and won. He might be over kill, I'll probably just stick with 2 Mirran and get something else nice main board to fight GDS.
Phyrexian was weird. I know and get the whole "damage vs poison" thing and that's why I hesitated putting them in, but the one I had the opportunity to play vs Goblins may have saved me. IIRC, he was sitting on six 1/1s and a Smuggler's Copter when I had the choice, that would have survived Anger, then I'd be a few turns further out on CoCo. Hard to say. He was unkillable vs Jeskai as well which was big against Geist of Saint Traft.
I just really felt like things went well except when I saw Blood Moon. Did I leave myself super vulnerable to this when I dropped 4 fetches? I should probably have had 1 more Qasali main or side as well.
I went TOP4 in a 40-man PPTQ here in my city. But not only that but 2 other devoted company decks achieved top8 as well. I don't think my build is the best, there's surely some room for improvement. Saffi was good in some games, in one case I managed a collected company into druid and saffi and it really broke my opponents legs (that's a common saying here in Brazil).
I'm still unsure about my sideboard approach, and the São Paulo GP is only two weeks and a half away.
I'm also considering 4 gavony townships, but I don't have the Noble Hierarchs to make that a reality @Pokken . Tireless tracker single-handedly won the game against DS for me, should I use another one?
Alright so I've been on vacation and had a hard time keeping up with the text bombs. But here's it in a nutshell:
Adding path to exile and cutting mana dorks is literally the opposite of what this deck is all about, which is gaining a mana advantage and using it to cast big spells that find combo pieces (or if failing to combo, out-value the opponent by dumping all the mana into various mana sinks).
The approach of cutting dorks to add paths reduces our mana advantage in two ways - firstly by casting rampant growth for our opponent and second by not having t1 dork. This deck wants to cast a mana dork t1 every game because T3 coco or t3 chord for druid untap and win is how you win most games.
Purklefluff's approach compounds this error by cutting too many 1 CMC on-curve plays so that he will spend almost 50% of his t1's playing no spells and passin the turn.
Please as I said feel free to do whatever you guys want, but I want to reiterate that the reason these decks (and kiki chord!) always fall off the map is this exact problem. People start thinking they can break all the rules of deck construction and massively warp their decks to specific metas--and maybe you will achieve some limited success doing that but you're not going to build a good deck, you're going to build a pile that can beat your shop.
The one request I would make of all you abzan midrangers is play 4 townships for a while before you start thinking you need to pre-sideboard midrange cards. 2 townships is IMHO why so many decks are having so much trouble playing midrange games.
Interesting point. I found that last week..playing against Jund where I usually board out dorks...I got rolled as i didn't have the mana advantage or even the ability to cast the two chameleon colossi in my hand. Usually in removal.dec, trimming dorks is correct, but not many of them. I brought in a few paths, but in hindsight should have brought more and found other ways to trim stuff without compromising the speed of T1 dorks
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I think people mostly misunderstand sideboarding in the midrange matchups because Logan Mize at one point was recommending cutting all 7 mana dorks for action cards, which turned out to be a terrible plan that leaves you stuck on 3 lands and dead most of the time.
The thing that happened is that fatal push changed the removal dynamic quite a bit. Most removal spells played in the format are 1 CMC now, so playing higher CMC spells is a great way to get out-tempo'd.
I find that 6 is the right number of dorks vs. most midrange/control decks, and so I shave from 8 to 6 for those matches. I will go down to 4 vs. electrolyze decks but that's it.
Burrenton Forge-Tender's main job is to protect your guys from anger of the gods or maybe a lightning bolt. With 4 Finks in the main you should do alright against burn but if you really want to beat them, you could play Lone Missionary, although I would never leave home without 1 Forge-Tender in the board. For the rest of the board, Eidolon of Rhetoric is a must, and I'm a fan of Sin Collector. Yixlid Jailer is nice against dredge, but I would just play more Oozes since it tends to be effective in a wider range of matchups, and it still does its job even if it gets removed. As for the main deck, I'm not a fan of the 2nd Seer or the basic swamp. You play so few black cards that you basically never want to see it. 2 Tombs and 4 Birds should be enough.
People who are playing swamp are wrong unless playing BB spells in sideboard or activated abilities (Pharika). Just lazy manabase construction (copying old bases). Even with Pharika I would not play it personally. You're gonna want enough mana to activate it once per turn and that's sufficient.
Swamp was needed to help cast redcap and many people cut it even then and were fine.
Personally would strongly recommend an additional dork over the second viscera seer. Collected company is much more important in these new builds and getting 4 mana to cast it likewise is important. You basically never want to draw a viscera seer anymore.
what would your abzan mana base look like? a fast land in that spot?
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
I am finding myself doubting the deck tho. If I scroll down on mtggoldfish and looking throughout the t1 decks, I think. Megh, Megh, doable, badddd, Megh.
By taking this deck to a gp, or pptq or forinstance a ptq, what are the matchups you pray for that are in the top tier decks? And is there a way to build it that makes matches as GDS better matchups?
I am finding myself doubting the deck tho. If I scroll down on mtggoldfish and looking throughout the t1 decks, I think. Megh, Megh, doable, badddd, Megh.
By taking this deck to a gp, or pptq or forinstance a ptq, what are the matchups you pray for that are in the top tier decks? And is there a way to build it that makes matches as GDS better matchups?
For what it's worth I'm including a single maindeck mirran crusader and a couple path to exile. These (combined with 4 witness) make the deck more viable game 1 against shadow decks.
After board I'm bringing in an additional 1x devout lightcaster and 1x mirran crusader, giving me 3 total cards against the matchup that completely shut them down (unless they draw their singleton bolt)
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I am finding myself doubting the deck tho. If I scroll down on mtggoldfish and looking throughout the t1 decks, I think. Megh, Megh, doable, badddd, Megh.
By taking this deck to a gp, or pptq or forinstance a ptq, what are the matchups you pray for that are in the top tier decks? And is there a way to build it that makes matches as GDS better matchups?
I am confused why people think it has a bad grixis DS matchup. Is this anecdotal or have you tested it? My limited experience suggests the match is close to 50-50 with good sideboard cards (e.g. Pharika).
My build I consider to be even to advantaged vs. every tier 1 deck except titan shift and burn.
E-tron sometimes you get steamrolled but for the most part you can overload their removal. Grixis DS you generate so much card advantage and they struggle with your go-wide strategy especially with township. Affinity has a hard time interacting with the combo and you can chord up stuff like Kataki. DSJ has less removal than grixis -- I have played that matchup personally probably 20 times and believe it to be somewhat positive (My win rate is positive for sure).
I think a lot of people think this deck is easier to play and mulligan with than it is, and also there are lots of weird deck building choices I see (see Swamp discussion) that likely cost percentage points.
I've played this deck a lot against a variety of decks and the thing I like about it now is that it doesn't seem to have very many egregiously bad matchups. Sometimes you lose badly but sometimes you win huge too. The key is to stick with it, play to your outs, and sideboard well.
Vs. E-Tron I would have 1-2 spellskites in your 75. A single Spellskite shuts off Walking Ballista which is important, and also craters a lot of their removal (including completely shutting off Spatial contortion).
Vs. Grixis I would play Pharika, or Evolutionary Leaps if you're not Abzan. Pharika is essentially game over once she resolves as they can never get through the hoard of snakes.
I'm pondering going in a different direction than either the classic persist combo or the newer mana combo in hopes of providing a more solid game against control. Of course, I've been out of Modern for a long while, so I don't doubt that I'll need lots of help.
Anyhow, remember the Renegade Rallier+Saffi Eriksdotter+Viscera Seer interaction? What if, instead of infinite persist triggers, one simply ran that engine with Zulaport Cutthroat or Blood Artist as the win-con? I realize this will hurt aggro and aggro combo matchups a bit (Infect won't miss Melira), but the goal is to cater towards a slower, more control-heavy environment.
Went 2-2 with my Naya list last night, losing a close one 1-2 to Grixis Death's shadow, then beating the pseudo-mirror, then losing to Esper Mill (!?!?!) because both games I led off Birds into Knight of the Reliquary and he drew and cast one of 3 Crypt Incursions (gaining about 30 life) just before I could swing for lethal (I delt him about 40 dmg each game), and then beat Boggles very easily (first time playing the matchup, seems incredibly one-sided for us).
Oddly enough, I find decks that cast path against me to be favorable matchups - probably because path ramps, and the deck runs tons of ways to utilize extra mana. The times I find I struggle are when I can't get ahead on mana and my opponent lands big threats early and starts beating down -- ie. Death's shadow decks when their gameplan goes the way they want -- kill all dorks, discard/counter cocos, play out 2+ fatties. Overall, like Pokken, seems to me that I'm about 50% or around there vs. those decks (DSJ, BGx), however the loses themselves can feel really bad because they're so lopsided in appearance -
ie. when they have 2 fatties and all you have are a couple grizzly bears who have to chump at some point. To be fair, though, a lot of my wins vs. other decks are pretty lopsided... probably just means the druid/vizier combo leads to a lot of lopsided-looking games.
Anyhow, remember the Renegade Rallier+Saffi Eriksdotter+Viscera Seer interaction? What if, instead of infinite persist triggers, one simply ran that engine with Zulaport Cutthroat or Blood Artist as the win-con? I realize this will hurt aggro and aggro combo matchups a bit (Infect won't miss Melira), but the goal is to cater towards a slower, more control-heavy environment.
I run the full finks combo devoted combo and the renegade saffi combo with blood artist. I found it to be very solid since most of these cards are value or just must answer cards except lone seer and vizers.
Blood artist is actually a mvp for me though it punishes ds decks and very greedy players who don't block. It gives you a edge vs things like tron if you assemble infi life.
Anyhow, remember the Renegade Rallier+Saffi Eriksdotter+Viscera Seer interaction? What if, instead of infinite persist triggers, one simply ran that engine with Zulaport Cutthroat or Blood Artist as the win-con? I realize this will hurt aggro and aggro combo matchups a bit (Infect won't miss Melira), but the goal is to cater towards a slower, more control-heavy environment.
I run the full finks combo devoted combo and the renegade saffi combo with blood artist. I found it to be very solid since most of these cards are value or just must answer cards except lone seer and vizers.
Blood artist is actually a mvp for me though it punishes ds decks and very greedy players who don't block. It gives you a edge vs things like tron if you assemble infi life.
Are these three distinct lists? If so, for the Renegade+Saffi combo list, what does your combo package look like? I'm hesitant to throw in more than 3 Seer or 3 Saffi, but that leaves me with 10 slots dedicated to the loop itself and an additional slot dedicated to Blood Artist win-con.
Has anyone tried Glare of subdual as side board? I think it can help against shadow decks and eldrazi tron since they only have few creatures. We can then turn our mana dorks and viziers useful and tap their fatties. It can help buy time to set up. Thinking also of running lingering souls to make more blockers and tap them with the enchantment
[/quote]
I run the full finks combo devoted combo and the renegade saffi combo with blood artist. I found it to be very solid since most of these cards are value or just must answer cards except lone seer and vizers.
Blood artist is actually a mvp for me though it punishes ds decks and very greedy players who don't block. It gives you a edge vs things like tron if you assemble infi life.
Are these three distinct lists? If so, for the Renegade+Saffi combo list, what does your combo package look like? I'm hesitant to throw in more than 3 Seer or 3 Saffi, but that leaves me with 10 slots dedicated to the loop itself and an additional slot dedicated to Blood Artist win-con.
Also, how many Witnesses, if any, do you run?[/quote]
So my build is
22 lands
4 birds of paradise
2 nobles
2 visera seer
4 devoted druid
4 vizier of remedies
1 selfless spirit
1 saffi erikdotter
1 duskwatch recruiter
1 blood artist
Right now I am building my list for the PPTQ next sunday. I expect 25% GDS, so keep that in mind.
I am starting with the following cards:
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin Tree
2 Vizier of Remedies
1 Murderous Redcap
Combo package, I was thinking about 3 Vizier 1 Anafenza just for the following thing.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Wall of Roots / Devoted Druid
I could go with two Druid and three Vizier still in the list. But I can't immidiatly win with infi mana, so ill guess I stick with Wall's and a 2/2 Split.
I can totaly agree on the arguments about the mindset you both have. Regarding results is Abzan the way to go. It has taking some places in top 8 and is mostly played.
Next to that, it is always good to think about the fundamentations of the deck. My 5 cents are that it is a combo deck with midrange beatdown possibility. Jack of all indeed, but not a master of one.
I agree with pokken on card choices, six one mana dorks and four druid's acopanied with four finks/knight.
I am going to test the value company build from Todd. Azusa, Excavator and Ghost Quarter in a deck with Knight seems bonkers.
Certainly true that Abzan Combo Company has more results than Naya (or Bant) versions, but I've also not really seen anyone else playing Naya other than Pokken and another guy in my area who's doing really well with it. I'm okay with that; I'm doing pretty well with it and happy to be flying below the radar. The list I played last week is below.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Walking Ballista
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands
3 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
2 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Gavony Township
Sorcery
1 Commune with Nature
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Lone Missionary
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
Still on the fence about the Crusader in the main - when it's good it's amazing, and having a silver bullet against GBx and Death's Shadow is great, and I've won several games on one Crusader alone. But it's not great against anything else. I may move that to the sb, have 2 sb Crusaders, and drop a Tracker instead. Maybe put a 3rd Heirarch in? Dunno.
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Viscra Seer
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Collected Company
1 Fetid Heath
3 Forest
3 Gavony Township
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Temple Garden
1 Twilight Mire
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
3 Evolutionary Leap
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Sin Collector
G1: T2, Blood Moon. T3, Bolt my only dork. GG, all mountains.
G2: Mull into 2 forests, dork, Vizier. Top deck Druid T2... Combo out vs no removal.
G3: She was holding Moon in her hand and I had no outs, but she decided not to play it favoring Chameleon Colossus on T2. I combo out T5 with no basics in play and no dorks.
I consider this a loss, she even said she realizes she should have played the Moon on T2... I don't know. She seemed like she just learned to play, I was teaching as much as I was playing. She seemed pretty on point in G1 with the whole mana denial thing, but G2 she didn't know what the combo even was and G3... Not hating, everyone is new at some point, I'm just lost on her skill/ability G1 vs G3; maybe you had to be there to really get it but she seemed pretty confident in G1, played fast, no questions, "this is what my plan is" mantra.
1-0
R2: Elves (never saw company)
G1: We both kept moderate hands, I T2 finks, T3 finks, and top a Crusader, but he explodes on T3 with a 5 for 5 Lead the Stampede dropping the whole thing into play and Ezuri, Renegade Leader for +9/+9 on T4.
G2: I keep T3 combo, knocks me off with Abrupt Decay and I didn't recover. He attacked for 13 on T4 leaving me at 3 with 3 Vizier in hand.
Not much to say. Raced, lost.
1-1
R3: Jeskai Control
G1: Combo T5, I guess he hadn't played Modern in like a year, looked up the top 8 lists and built a board... Guess we're not in the top 8 lists since he didn't know the combo.
G2: Really durdly game, but I locked him out once he hit 3 life with Athreos and Evolutionary Leap. All my blocks get more blockers. He just scooped to the soft lock after I started looping Sin Collector twice a turn.
Weird how many people didn't know Druid/Vizier was a thing today. I think I was honestly the only one playing it in a 42 player pool.
2-1
R4: Grixis Shadow
This is what I wanted to see, you can tell from my main board that I was hating from the start. Probably also why I lost to Moons all day.
G1: T3 Mirran after he kills a Druid. He doesn't find a Lili to even attempt to force me to sac it. I sit long enough to go infinite life, he scoops to Athreos' inevitability vs Shadow.
G2: Finks game for awhile, I have 2 one died and came back. Blood Baron T6, he Anger of the Gods but Blood Baron is 4/4 and now massing counters while blocking with other durdly plays. As soon as I make lethal (7) I swing for the win.
3-1
R5: Goblins
G1: He is on the play. T3 combo while at 6 life vs no removal.
G2: On T4 or T5(?) I end up having to choose between Phyrexian Crusader and CoCo with an active Druid on the table with Rhonas in my hand. I chose CoCo (opinions?), hit Finks/Witness two turns in a row and think I'm totally in the clear on 12 life and 2 Finks in play yet. He plays Blood Moon, then Anger, then just pecks with 1/1s that he top decked.
G3: This was honestly really close, he was at 4, I was at 5. I was forcing Athreos triggers getting Finks value, it was looking decent. Blood Moon vs 1 forest. I flounder on CoCo into Witness for two turns and gain nothing of note. He plays 2 Goblin Lords and out classes me on defense while also gaining mountain walk for his team of 3/3 or bigger. I was pretty disappointed because I had an active Druid, active Athreos (3 Finks), and had just played Rhonas (also active), so my turtle set up was basically complete and I only had to break the Moon.
3-2
R6: Ponza!
G1: Blood Moon, T2. Inferno T4.
G2: Mull trying to find Qasali or Sage, hit 5 cards: Heath, Plains, Druid, CoCo, Finks. No Moon until T5, but he sure double Inferno Titan'd well enough. My T2 Druid took a bolt, nothing I drew mattered.
3-3
I way over prepared for Shadow. I was also looking to hedge vs GW Hate Bears with the 3 filter lands; a few test matches left me landless against Arbiter. I was not expecting this many Blood Moon decks in the least; I played against 3, but I saw at least 2 more I didn't play against. Where as there was only 1 Hate Bears. Maybe I just need to read the meta better?
Otherwise, things seemed to go well:
Athreos was awesome against Jeskai Control, he came down both games and just pleasantly started eating life or gaining value. R1 vs Ponza, he did the same saving some things from Bolts. He did work in other games, but nothing so back breaking.
I was glad to see Blood Baron stood up in a game vs Shadow and won. He might be over kill, I'll probably just stick with 2 Mirran and get something else nice main board to fight GDS.
Phyrexian was weird. I know and get the whole "damage vs poison" thing and that's why I hesitated putting them in, but the one I had the opportunity to play vs Goblins may have saved me. IIRC, he was sitting on six 1/1s and a Smuggler's Copter when I had the choice, that would have survived Anger, then I'd be a few turns further out on CoCo. Hard to say. He was unkillable vs Jeskai as well which was big against Geist of Saint Traft.
I just really felt like things went well except when I saw Blood Moon. Did I leave myself super vulnerable to this when I dropped 4 fetches? I should probably have had 1 more Qasali main or side as well.
"Reveal a Dragon"
https://www.ligamagic.com.br/?view=decks/view&deck=640214
I went TOP4 in a 40-man PPTQ here in my city. But not only that but 2 other devoted company decks achieved top8 as well. I don't think my build is the best, there's surely some room for improvement. Saffi was good in some games, in one case I managed a collected company into druid and saffi and it really broke my opponents legs (that's a common saying here in Brazil).
I'm still unsure about my sideboard approach, and the São Paulo GP is only two weeks and a half away.
I'm also considering 4 gavony townships, but I don't have the Noble Hierarchs to make that a reality @Pokken . Tireless tracker single-handedly won the game against DS for me, should I use another one?
Interesting point. I found that last week..playing against Jund where I usually board out dorks...I got rolled as i didn't have the mana advantage or even the ability to cast the two chameleon colossi in my hand. Usually in removal.dec, trimming dorks is correct, but not many of them. I brought in a few paths, but in hindsight should have brought more and found other ways to trim stuff without compromising the speed of T1 dorks
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
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RIP Twin
The thing that happened is that fatal push changed the removal dynamic quite a bit. Most removal spells played in the format are 1 CMC now, so playing higher CMC spells is a great way to get out-tempo'd.
I find that 6 is the right number of dorks vs. most midrange/control decks, and so I shave from 8 to 6 for those matches. I will go down to 4 vs. electrolyze decks but that's it.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Swamp was needed to help cast redcap and many people cut it even then and were fine.
Personally would strongly recommend an additional dork over the second viscera seer. Collected company is much more important in these new builds and getting 4 mana to cast it likewise is important. You basically never want to draw a viscera seer anymore.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
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RIP Twin
By taking this deck to a gp, or pptq or forinstance a ptq, what are the matchups you pray for that are in the top tier decks? And is there a way to build it that makes matches as GDS better matchups?
For what it's worth I'm including a single maindeck mirran crusader and a couple path to exile. These (combined with 4 witness) make the deck more viable game 1 against shadow decks.
After board I'm bringing in an additional 1x devout lightcaster and 1x mirran crusader, giving me 3 total cards against the matchup that completely shut them down (unless they draw their singleton bolt)
Cut swamp add township. We're adding more green sources in the form of druids so I think the deck can absorb shaving one colorless source.
I am confused why people think it has a bad grixis DS matchup. Is this anecdotal or have you tested it? My limited experience suggests the match is close to 50-50 with good sideboard cards (e.g. Pharika).
My build I consider to be even to advantaged vs. every tier 1 deck except titan shift and burn.
E-tron sometimes you get steamrolled but for the most part you can overload their removal. Grixis DS you generate so much card advantage and they struggle with your go-wide strategy especially with township. Affinity has a hard time interacting with the combo and you can chord up stuff like Kataki. DSJ has less removal than grixis -- I have played that matchup personally probably 20 times and believe it to be somewhat positive (My win rate is positive for sure).
I think a lot of people think this deck is easier to play and mulligan with than it is, and also there are lots of weird deck building choices I see (see Swamp discussion) that likely cost percentage points.
I've played this deck a lot against a variety of decks and the thing I like about it now is that it doesn't seem to have very many egregiously bad matchups. Sometimes you lose badly but sometimes you win huge too. The key is to stick with it, play to your outs, and sideboard well.
Vs. E-Tron I would have 1-2 spellskites in your 75. A single Spellskite shuts off Walking Ballista which is important, and also craters a lot of their removal (including completely shutting off Spatial contortion).
Vs. Grixis I would play Pharika, or Evolutionary Leaps if you're not Abzan. Pharika is essentially game over once she resolves as they can never get through the hoard of snakes.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Anyhow, remember the Renegade Rallier+Saffi Eriksdotter+Viscera Seer interaction? What if, instead of infinite persist triggers, one simply ran that engine with Zulaport Cutthroat or Blood Artist as the win-con? I realize this will hurt aggro and aggro combo matchups a bit (Infect won't miss Melira), but the goal is to cater towards a slower, more control-heavy environment.
Any thoughts?
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
Oddly enough, I find decks that cast path against me to be favorable matchups - probably because path ramps, and the deck runs tons of ways to utilize extra mana. The times I find I struggle are when I can't get ahead on mana and my opponent lands big threats early and starts beating down -- ie. Death's shadow decks when their gameplan goes the way they want -- kill all dorks, discard/counter cocos, play out 2+ fatties. Overall, like Pokken, seems to me that I'm about 50% or around there vs. those decks (DSJ, BGx), however the loses themselves can feel really bad because they're so lopsided in appearance -
ie. when they have 2 fatties and all you have are a couple grizzly bears who have to chump at some point. To be fair, though, a lot of my wins vs. other decks are pretty lopsided... probably just means the druid/vizier combo leads to a lot of lopsided-looking games.
I run the full finks combo devoted combo and the renegade saffi combo with blood artist. I found it to be very solid since most of these cards are value or just must answer cards except lone seer and vizers.
Blood artist is actually a mvp for me though it punishes ds decks and very greedy players who don't block. It gives you a edge vs things like tron if you assemble infi life.
Are these three distinct lists? If so, for the Renegade+Saffi combo list, what does your combo package look like? I'm hesitant to throw in more than 3 Seer or 3 Saffi, but that leaves me with 10 slots dedicated to the loop itself and an additional slot dedicated to Blood Artist win-con.
Also, how many Witnesses, if any, do you run?
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
I run the full finks combo devoted combo and the renegade saffi combo with blood artist. I found it to be very solid since most of these cards are value or just must answer cards except lone seer and vizers.
Blood artist is actually a mvp for me though it punishes ds decks and very greedy players who don't block. It gives you a edge vs things like tron if you assemble infi life.
Are these three distinct lists? If so, for the Renegade+Saffi combo list, what does your combo package look like? I'm hesitant to throw in more than 3 Seer or 3 Saffi, but that leaves me with 10 slots dedicated to the loop itself and an additional slot dedicated to Blood Artist win-con.
Also, how many Witnesses, if any, do you run?[/quote]
So my build is
22 lands
4 birds of paradise
2 nobles
2 visera seer
4 devoted druid
4 vizier of remedies
1 selfless spirit
1 saffi erikdotter
1 duskwatch recruiter
1 blood artist
4 kitchen finks
2 eternal witness
2 renegade rallier
1 liliana flip walker
1 rhonas
4 coco
4 chord
If you got any questions I'm happy to answer them.
I am starting with the following cards:
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin Tree
2 Vizier of Remedies
1 Murderous Redcap
Combo package, I was thinking about 3 Vizier 1 Anafenza just for the following thing.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Wall of Roots / Devoted Druid
I could go with two Druid and three Vizier still in the list. But I can't immidiatly win with infi mana, so ill guess I stick with Wall's and a 2/2 Split.
22/23 Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Gavony Township
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Forest
1 Plains
1/2 Ghost Quarter
I choose for the Ghost Quarter because I want Knight and Rallier in my deck. Right now we have 41/42 slots filled.
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
So we have 10-11 slots left to fill in. Here is where I want to push myself. What do I want?
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Eternal Witness
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Knight of the Reliquary
So 2/3 left...
I realy want to give Mirran Crusader a change in my deck. SB or MB?
Do I need the slots for Tracker, Ooze, Fiend Hunter?
Do I need the slots for Paths?
Sideboard:
Possibilities:
Aven Mindcensor
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Mirran Crusader
Scavenging Ooze
Tireless Tracker
Kataki, War's Wage
Pharika, God of Affliction
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Orzhov Pontiff
Qasali Pridemage
Selfless Spirit
Spellskite
Yixlid Jailer
Ghost Quarter
Bojuka Bogg
Tidehollow Sculler
Reclamation Sage
Path to Exile
Abrupt Decay
Maelstrom Pulse
Any thoughts??