But if you really want to beat it, there are already great overlapping sideboard cards: ensnaring bridge, runed halo, and engineered explosives are all backbreaking. Having bridge means they can never attack without artifact hate and they can't even gain life from coronet; this makes it better than worship.
In the main, I have always advocated 2-3 Liliana. Actually the meta is slowing down and it is not a bad idea to even run 4. This card is of course also backbreaking against Boogles.
How do you guys feel the Ad Nauseam MU is? I thought it was pretty bad, because combo and so on. But I have been playing some games lately and disrupting seems very powerful, and I am sitting 10/5 up. After G1, they bring the leyline and this makes it more difficult, but our stony silences buy us some time to dig for an answer. Also, they have to go to 4/5 lands and they are left out with around 35 damage points If the get all the pieces (if they have to spoils for Ad Nauseam, they will likely have under 30 damages to deal). Clearly, RtA and Sorin plus a timely intangible virtue seal the game.
Some experiences over there? Has anyone had a disenchant your "Phyrexian unlife" win before? They usually take their pact of negation out.
What do you guys think of my deck? I cut the sorin because in my opinion it does not work very well if ur dont have tokens. And if u have tokens u already kinda winning.
Let me know what u think please!
IMO, not playing Sorin is, simple and plain, a mistake.
He's clearly worse than Gideon if you're behind, but he absolutely slams the door on aggro matchups if you resolve him with just a token or two out. You drop him, +1, and then gain 2-6 life. The aggro opponent HAS to do 5 points of damage him immediately or you'll just start gaining insurmountable amounts of life. Except you have a token or two untapped that you'll happily save him with.... and gain more life while doing so. Seriously, he's just insane against anything trying to race you, which is like half the meta. Oh and his ulti is easy to obtain and crushes the two top strategies (Eldrazi Tron and DS) pretty hard.
What do you guys think of my deck? I cut the sorin because in my opinion it does not work very well if ur dont have tokens. And if u have tokens u already kinda winning.
Let me know what u think please!
Sorin has turned so many games around for me that I cannot imagine my tokens deck without him. That lifegain. And he makes flying tokens, which does matter.
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Some people have tried Anointed procession already and it has resulted to not be good enough for the deck. Gideon is straight better card, and Anointed does nothing by itself. It is a winmore card, but does not contribute actively to the purpose of our game. Secure the wastes is fine, but I would personally run 1-of.
What can i say, try running your list for a couple FNM, then try switching procession and secure out for sorin, then let us know which build wins more games...
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Hi fellow tokens players, in 1 month i v several pptqs to partecipate , and i'd like to win at least one time and qualify to regional so i'm working hard on the list ,what do you think about ? do you have some suggest ?
I have a singleton in my 60 replacing a procession. Efficiency is compromised here in favor of optional removal and instant speed. It depends on how many creatures decks u face in your local. I've got a decent number.
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4-0 at FNM last night, beat Burn, Merfolk, Merfolk, and Lantern. I'd almost say we're slightly favored vs Merfolk since Fatal Push was added as I'm 17-12 vs it in the last ~4mo.
- 0-2 against jund: I had always won this guy but I mulld badly to 5 both matches and yielded in the end. No missplays, he got the right cards while I didn´t.
IN: 2 RiP and 2 Selfless Spirits
OUT: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Brutality, and 1 RtA (not sure)
- 2-0 BW Eldrazi: First time I faced this MU. Felt like racing is our priority. Sorin is great for this sake. He also played lingering souls.
- 1-1 UW Control: He won game one, after a looooooot of turns. Won 2 fast. The third one ended up in a tie after both realised 5 turns were not going to be enough.
Kind of weird to lose to Jund so badly but win over eldrazi so easily. The control MU seemed favorable, but the guy was really skilled and I played suboptimally a couple times.
Curious that you are running 10x fetches including Bloodstained Mire. Generally I only see Bx fetches in decks that run mainboard Lilina of the Veil. Is there a specific reason you are running 10 over the usual 6-8?
Duress mainboard is also pretty unusual, and I would suspect that nine hand disruption spells is going to give you diminishing returns because of increased possibility of dead draws late game.
I'm curious if you would describe your play style as more aggressive or more controlling because it seems like your deck is straddling that line in some atypical ways. 63% win rate is solid though. My record has been similar recently, although I have been playing in a relatively favorable meta.
Curious that you are running 10x fetches including Bloodstained Mire. Generally I only see Bx fetches in decks that run mainboard Lilina of the Veil. Is there a specific reason you are running 10 over the usual 6-8?
Duress mainboard is also pretty unusual, and I would suspect that nine hand disruption spells is going to give you diminishing returns because of increased possibility of dead draws late game.
I'm curious if you would describe your play style as more aggressive or more controlling because it seems like your deck is straddling that line in some atypical ways. 63% win rate is solid though. My record has been similar recently, although I have been playing in a relatively favorable meta.
I am only playing 6 fetches, I guess you got some lands wrong. And the only reason I play 2 bloodstained Mire is because I don't own yet a playset of marsh flats. The moment I get them, they will be in.
Duress main is pretty neat. I like the line of 8 hand disruption spells + the collective brutality which is a bit of a catch all card and improves my burn MU (which I find super tight) while serving as a pseudo-fourth fatal push (I know it is not nearly as good in that sense). There, duress also gives an edge saving the 2 lifeloss that the third and fourth thoughtseize would generate.
mmm.. I am not really sure there is a fixed playstyle. Depends on the hand and on the opponent. Lately I have come to the conclusion that our game should have 2 parts:
1) the part where we disrupt and ruin their initial plans (therefore 8 hand-disruption, 7 removal, and 1 Collective Brutality = 16).
2) enter the attack mode ( 13 token generators and 8 buffs = 21).
Try not to miss land-drops (23).
I guess the definition of aggressive or controlling depends only on when do you switch between both phases, and this, as I said, depends entirely on your hand, the opponent's deck, and the board state. I have seen that my meta is super varying. Every week are new decks and you literally can't be prepared for everything. Thus, my SB plan is much more straight forward and simple. The deck is pretty capable to face any other deck, and with the more hand-disruptive shell, I feel like even tron is winnable now.
So, i went X-3 in the last 33people Tournament, well should have been x-2 but i split with my friend on the last round for top 16 prize, he has better chance to top 8 (although ended up being 9th -_-). i got smashed by tooth and nail entwining to Emrakul and Xenagod for 30 damage LOL (Like the name of the deck suggest, One Punch Man Ramp), but it was a hell of a game and sure was fun, although i could've won the next turn. Lost to abzan cause of poor draw and OPM cause of opp's insane tooth and nail top deck, won pretty easily against grixis delver, burn, and jund.
Now i'm preparing for a 20ppl PPTQ. I wanted to ditch my last remaining duress from the side and my 3rd thoughtseize from mainboard. Tested with a singleton liliana otv in the main and wow she's absurd. Currently it looks like this:
funny thing that happened: on an empty board my opponent suspend a rift bolt, on the following turn i cast runed halo naming rift bolt, making the rift bolt target my opponent hahaha. on another note, i might change the duress to another sundering growth or i dunno maybe a selfless spirit? need some more insight on what people will use on the pptq.
So, i went X-3 in the last 33people Tournament, well should have been x-2 but i split with my friend on the last round for top 16 prize, he has better chance to top 8 (although ended up being 9th -_-). i got smashed by tooth and nail entwining to Emrakul and Xenagod for 30 damage LOL (Like the name of the deck suggest, One Punch Man Ramp), but it was a hell of a game and sure was fun, although i could've won the next turn. Lost to abzan cause of poor draw and OPM cause of opp's insane tooth and nail top deck, won pretty easily against grixis delver, burn, and jund.
Now i'm preparing for a 20ppl PPTQ. I wanted to ditch my last remaining duress from the side and my 3rd thoughtseize from mainboard. Tested with a singleton liliana otv in the main and wow she's absurd. Currently it looks like this:
funny thing that happened: on an empty board my opponent suspend a rift bolt, on the following turn i cast runed halo naming rift bolt, making the rift bolt target my opponent hahaha. on another note, i might change the duress to another sundering growth or i dunno maybe a selfless spirit? need some more insight on what people will use on the pptq.
I also want to include a Liliana in my main deck. Probably replacing the collective brutality or a Duress. If I ever include a second Lili, Spectral Procession might be the cut, right?
A couple comments:
- Maybe you can consider running 2 swamps to cast Lili through a Blood Moon
- I dont think Gideon should be a SB card. Playing him main is alright, but I feel like adding main cards to the SB does not help against difficult matches.
- How do the auriok champions work for you? some highlights other than burn? When do you side them out?
- how good is Lili against burn?
I have been seeing lately that people dont run selfless spirit in the SB anymore. In the last games I played, it felt like bringing it in was a bit floppy, compared to the effectiveness of a Duress for example. I think I am going to try to go with 1 blessed alliance and... something else. Probably Timely Reinforcements, wrath of god or ghostly prison. Any recommendation based on my list and your experience?
How does Worship result to be? Which matchups do you use it in? Do you also board the aurioks to prevent from losing to BB or the lifegain in the maindeck is already enough? I might include 1 Worship and 1 Cage instead of my 2 Selfless Spirits.
So, i went X-3 in the last 33people Tournament, well should have been x-2 but i split with my friend on the last round for top 16 prize, he has better chance to top 8 (although ended up being 9th -_-). i got smashed by tooth and nail entwining to Emrakul and Xenagod for 30 damage LOL (Like the name of the deck suggest, One Punch Man Ramp), but it was a hell of a game and sure was fun, although i could've won the next turn. Lost to abzan cause of poor draw and OPM cause of opp's insane tooth and nail top deck, won pretty easily against grixis delver, burn, and jund.
Now i'm preparing for a 20ppl PPTQ. I wanted to ditch my last remaining duress from the side and my 3rd thoughtseize from mainboard. Tested with a singleton liliana otv in the main and wow she's absurd. Currently it looks like this:
funny thing that happened: on an empty board my opponent suspend a rift bolt, on the following turn i cast runed halo naming rift bolt, making the rift bolt target my opponent hahaha. on another note, i might change the duress to another sundering growth or i dunno maybe a selfless spirit? need some more insight on what people will use on the pptq.
I also want to include a Liliana in my main deck. Probably replacing the collective brutality or a Duress. If I ever include a second Lili, Spectral Procession might be the cut, right?
A couple comments:
- Maybe you can consider running 2 swamps to cast Lili through a Blood Moon
- I dont think Gideon should be a SB card. Playing him main is alright, but I feel like adding main cards to the SB does not help against difficult matches.
- How do the auriok champions work for you? some highlights other than burn? When do you side them out?
- how good is Lili against burn?
dont wanna hurt my mana base that much, so 1 swamp is enough for me. around my meta there's less blood moon.
gideon helps with bgx matchup and shadow matchups, also mirror matchup.
i do side aurioks on control, combo, against jund i wont but against abzan i will, i wonder what else cause i forgot. basically these 3 matchups.
lili is just that good against burn, forcing your opp to discard their precious burn spell, forcing opp to top deck mode, or when the situation needed it she can be a bad 3mana removal
So, i went X-3 in the last 33people Tournament, well should have been x-2 but i split with my friend on the last round for top 16 prize, he has better chance to top 8 (although ended up being 9th -_-). i got smashed by tooth and nail entwining to Emrakul and Xenagod for 30 damage LOL (Like the name of the deck suggest, One Punch Man Ramp), but it was a hell of a game and sure was fun, although i could've won the next turn. Lost to abzan cause of poor draw and OPM cause of opp's insane tooth and nail top deck, won pretty easily against grixis delver, burn, and jund.
Now i'm preparing for a 20ppl PPTQ. I wanted to ditch my last remaining duress from the side and my 3rd thoughtseize from mainboard. Tested with a singleton liliana otv in the main and wow she's absurd. Currently it looks like this:
funny thing that happened: on an empty board my opponent suspend a rift bolt, on the following turn i cast runed halo naming rift bolt, making the rift bolt target my opponent hahaha. on another note, i might change the duress to another sundering growth or i dunno maybe a selfless spirit? need some more insight on what people will use on the pptq.
Hi i tried Raise the alarm once as a 2 off split with bitterblossom but the ground tokens cannot compete with the flyers from lingering/spectral/bitterblossom. Thats why i prefer discard/removal/persicution above raise the alarm. I do play a 1-off secure the wastes but that card is insane in the late game where a raise the alarm is just 2 tokens. I don't know how good lillianna is because i don't have that much budget. So maybe another person can tell u about lilly. My list is at the top of this page and it worked pretty good
greetings Rolf
i do have tried secure, and while it's insane top deck on late game, it doesnt do anything on early game and i dont like it. it comes down to personal preference, i like my 3/1 split and basically has used this split for a year now without changing it
i just borrowed an unused one from my friend hahaha
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But if you really want to beat it, there are already great overlapping sideboard cards: ensnaring bridge, runed halo, and engineered explosives are all backbreaking. Having bridge means they can never attack without artifact hate and they can't even gain life from coronet; this makes it better than worship.
In the main, I have always advocated 2-3 Liliana. Actually the meta is slowing down and it is not a bad idea to even run 4. This card is of course also backbreaking against Boogles.
Some experiences over there? Has anyone had a disenchant your "Phyrexian unlife" win before? They usually take their pact of negation out.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
IMO, not playing Sorin is, simple and plain, a mistake.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Don't drop him.
Sorin has turned so many games around for me that I cannot imagine my tokens deck without him. That lifegain. And he makes flying tokens, which does matter.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Sorin should be a 3of and must be 2of.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
1 Fetid Heath
2 Plains
3 Windswept Heath
4 Bitterblossom
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Auriok Champion
1 Swamp
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Spectral Procession
4 Marsh Flats
4 Path to Exile
1 Temple Garden
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Thoughtseize
2 Godless Shrine
2 Gavony Township
2 Shambling Vent
2 Collective Brutality
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Auriok Champion
1 Dusk // Dawn
1 Anguished Unmaking
thanks for your time see ya
I have a singleton in my 60 replacing a procession. Efficiency is compromised here in favor of optional removal and instant speed. It depends on how many creatures decks u face in your local. I've got a decent number.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
- Got a bye first round
- 0-2 against jund: I had always won this guy but I mulld badly to 5 both matches and yielded in the end. No missplays, he got the right cards while I didn´t.
IN: 2 RiP and 2 Selfless Spirits
OUT: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Brutality, and 1 RtA (not sure)
- 2-0 BW Eldrazi: First time I faced this MU. Felt like racing is our priority. Sorin is great for this sake. He also played lingering souls.
IN: 2 Pithing needle, 2 Runed halo.
OUT: 3 RtA, 1 Collective brutality
- 1-1 UW Control: He won game one, after a looooooot of turns. Won 2 fast. The third one ended up in a tie after both realised 5 turns were not going to be enough.
IN: 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Selfless Spirit, 2 Surgical extractions, and 1 RiP
OUT: 4 Paths, 3 FP
Kind of weird to lose to Jund so badly but win over eldrazi so easily. The control MU seemed favorable, but the guy was really skilled and I played suboptimally a couple times.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Curious that you are running 10x fetches including Bloodstained Mire. Generally I only see Bx fetches in decks that run mainboard Lilina of the Veil. Is there a specific reason you are running 10 over the usual 6-8?
Duress mainboard is also pretty unusual, and I would suspect that nine hand disruption spells is going to give you diminishing returns because of increased possibility of dead draws late game.
I'm curious if you would describe your play style as more aggressive or more controlling because it seems like your deck is straddling that line in some atypical ways. 63% win rate is solid though. My record has been similar recently, although I have been playing in a relatively favorable meta.
BW BW Tokens
BUW Esper Shadow
BUR Grixis Shadow
I am only playing 6 fetches, I guess you got some lands wrong. And the only reason I play 2 bloodstained Mire is because I don't own yet a playset of marsh flats. The moment I get them, they will be in.
Duress main is pretty neat. I like the line of 8 hand disruption spells + the collective brutality which is a bit of a catch all card and improves my burn MU (which I find super tight) while serving as a pseudo-fourth fatal push (I know it is not nearly as good in that sense). There, duress also gives an edge saving the 2 lifeloss that the third and fourth thoughtseize would generate.
mmm.. I am not really sure there is a fixed playstyle. Depends on the hand and on the opponent. Lately I have come to the conclusion that our game should have 2 parts:
1) the part where we disrupt and ruin their initial plans (therefore 8 hand-disruption, 7 removal, and 1 Collective Brutality = 16).
2) enter the attack mode ( 13 token generators and 8 buffs = 21).
Try not to miss land-drops (23).
I guess the definition of aggressive or controlling depends only on when do you switch between both phases, and this, as I said, depends entirely on your hand, the opponent's deck, and the board state. I have seen that my meta is super varying. Every week are new decks and you literally can't be prepared for everything. Thus, my SB plan is much more straight forward and simple. The deck is pretty capable to face any other deck, and with the more hand-disruptive shell, I feel like even tron is winnable now.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Now i'm preparing for a 20ppl PPTQ. I wanted to ditch my last remaining duress from the side and my 3rd thoughtseize from mainboard. Tested with a singleton liliana otv in the main and wow she's absurd. Currently it looks like this:
4 marsh flats
2 arid mesa
2 windswept heath
4 concealed courtyard
3 godless shrine
2 shambling vent
1 vault of the archangel
1 swamp
3 plains
1 fetid heath
creature
2 auriok champion
4 intangible virtue
1 zealous persecution
planeswalker
3 sorin, solemn visitor
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 liliana of the veil
tokens
4 spectral procession
4 lingering souls
3 bitterblossom
1 raise the alarm
disruptions and removals
4 path to exile
3 fatal push
4 inquisition of kozilek
2 thoughtseize
2 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 surgical extraction
2 collective brutalities
1 timely reinforcement
1 pithing needle
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 sundering growth
2 runed halo
funny thing that happened: on an empty board my opponent suspend a rift bolt, on the following turn i cast runed halo naming rift bolt, making the rift bolt target my opponent hahaha. on another note, i might change the duress to another sundering growth or i dunno maybe a selfless spirit? need some more insight on what people will use on the pptq.
I also want to include a Liliana in my main deck. Probably replacing the collective brutality or a Duress. If I ever include a second Lili, Spectral Procession might be the cut, right?
A couple comments:
- Maybe you can consider running 2 swamps to cast Lili through a Blood Moon
- I dont think Gideon should be a SB card. Playing him main is alright, but I feel like adding main cards to the SB does not help against difficult matches.
- How do the auriok champions work for you? some highlights other than burn? When do you side them out?
- how good is Lili against burn?
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
Also considering changing the Rest in Peaces for Nihil Spellbomb. I know RiP is far superior but it hurts our lingering souls as well.
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
BW BW Tokens
RG Dredgeplendid Reclamation
RW Boros Burn
GB Elves
RB Dark Goblins
WU Azorius' Relic
dont wanna hurt my mana base that much, so 1 swamp is enough for me. around my meta there's less blood moon.
gideon helps with bgx matchup and shadow matchups, also mirror matchup.
i do side aurioks on control, combo, against jund i wont but against abzan i will, i wonder what else cause i forgot. basically these 3 matchups.
lili is just that good against burn, forcing your opp to discard their precious burn spell, forcing opp to top deck mode, or when the situation needed it she can be a bad 3mana removal
i do have tried secure, and while it's insane top deck on late game, it doesnt do anything on early game and i dont like it. it comes down to personal preference, i like my 3/1 split and basically has used this split for a year now without changing it
i just borrowed an unused one from my friend hahaha