Has anyone actually tried out jeskai ascendancy? Seems like it could be nice as a 2-of as a backup wincon in case of fizzling or as a way to help find puresteels. I haven't actually played the deck but it seems like it would be a good fit.
Also what about reckless fireweaver? It seems insane in this deck. I could see taking out the grapeshot, ornthopter, and glinthawks for a playset. It isn't as resilient as grapeshot but if you are drawing your hole deck they will work the same. Also it does damage while we are setting up for the combo, I could see it helping us win games we otherwise wouldn't either due to fizzling or just by adding to the aggro plan. Not to mention it gets around leyline of sanctity. We could always have a 1-of grapeshot in the side if we really think we want it for a specific matchup. Thoughts?
I have tested ascendency and it is fantastic. It makes for consistent wins and if you have a mantle, whether you have a paladin or not, makes an incredible amount of mana.
As for fireweaver, Im not sold on it mainly because it's a creature, but i definitely see how it can impact the deck. It does die to the same removal spells as all our other enablers and we don't get extra value after playing our 3-4 cheers. Awhile ago molten nursery was considered but never made it to the 75 of most builds, despite it being harder to destroy, because it didn't do enough. If you're worried about leyline of sanctity, focus on the mentor aspect and go wide or aggro them out with goblin Gaveleer
Glad to hear ascendancy is working for you, I have a play set of foils and desperately want to use at least a few of them.
On fireweaver though; the deck already appears to flop to a removed puresteel paladin anyway, so by adding the fireweaver we can actually attempt to overrun their removal with useful creatures. Glint hawk and ornthopter are never going to have removal pointed at them and don't do a whole lot for us in general. Between the fireweaver, mentor, paladin, and gaveleer that is a nice efficient creature package. I see why hawk and thopter were in the deck, but they just don't seem to do enough and are mostly filler. Molten nursery is a good comparison but the difference between 3 mana and 2 in a deck with so few lands is huge.
I am working on acquiring the pieces for the deck and will test the fireweaver along with ascendancy when I get a chance.
Also @ Gameshark, I don't quite understand the "and we don't get extra value after playing our 3-4 cheers" part. Could you please explain, in reference to fireweaver, this part of your argument?
I have tested ascendency and it is fantastic. It makes for consistent wins and if you have a mantle, whether you have a paladin or not, makes an incredible amount of mana.
How many are you currently running? I'm only running 1 right now with 2 Paradoxical Outcomes (there hasn't been a game where I haven't combo'd off immediately after casting it). Would you suggest dropping a Paradoxical Outcome for an additional Jeskai Ascendancy to give myself 6 total looters?
Match 1: Kept hand of seven with; gaveleer, aid, 2 land and 2 0 drops. Got hit my goblin guides early, managed to eventually hit back with gaveleer for 9 before it got blasted by two goblin grenades. Didn't draw anything else of use and lost soon after.
Sideboarded: 3 ethereal haze and 3 dispatch
Match 2: Kept hand of mentor, 4 land, 1 repeal and 0 drop. Drew two ethereal haze first few turns which limited damage for 2 turns. Managed to get mentor out and sadly only 1 token. Had to block goblin instigator and guide with mentor and token, then got overrun due to a shared animosity and numerous little goblins.
Game 2 vs infect 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand with gaveleer, 2 land, 2 repeal and remaining 0 drops. Managed to return a pumped glistened elf to opponents hand but eventually got beaten down by another elf and ink moth.
Sideboarded: 3 dispatch
Match 2: Mulliganed to 6 and kept hand of dispatch, mox, gaveleer, ornithopter and remaining 0 drops. No land! Dispatched first glistened elf, played gaveleer and drew into another dispatch. Misplayed second dispatch before opponent played vines of vastwood and gaveleer died. Didn't manage to come back from my mistake and lost two turns later.
Game 3 vs Tron 0-2
Match 1: kept hand of seven with paladin, 2 land, repeal, mox and remaining 0 drops. Drew a few cards off paladin but fizzled. Paladin promptly got exiled and didn't manage to recover. Did manage to get mentor out with 4 tokens but they all got blitzed.
Sideboarded: 1 erayo and 2 wear/tear
Match 2: mulled to five with no land. Bad choice. Kept mox, wear/tear, gaveleer and 0 drops. Didn't draw anything of use and succumbed to wurmcoil engine.
Game 4 vs Storm 2-0
Match 1: kept hand with paladin and won with grapeshot turn two. Deck worked perfectly!
Sideboarded: 2 leyline and 2 emerge unscathed
Match 2: both of us started with leylines on the board. I had hand with paladin and gaveleer. Managed to win on turn two with a massive gaveleer. Deck worked excellently again!
Had a great day but kept some really sketchy hands as well as misplaying a fair bit - definitely learnt a few lessons. As I said in my previous post I played two games against each of these decks after the logged games and didn't lose! Very frustrating.
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What are everyone's thoughts? So far found that being able to scry before drawing means that the combo is a lot more consistent. The spell pierce often means protection for paladin and can often gaurantee grapeshot hits home. The twisted image and contraband kingpin can lead to life gain and also card draw. It can also be used on equipped paladin. Gitaxian probe can be used to check opponents hand for removal/threats and also adds to combo.
The sideboard including surgical extraction and inquisition enable a greater degree of control over the game to ensure the combo goes off. Opted for paths instead of dispatch due to not always having three artefacts when removal is required - particularly against infect etc.
Open to suggestions....
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I have tested ascendency and it is fantastic. It makes for consistent wins and if you have a mantle, whether you have a paladin or not, makes an incredible amount of mana.
How many are you currently running? I'm only running 1 right now with 2 Paradoxical Outcomes (there hasn't been a game where I haven't combo'd off immediately after casting it). Would you suggest dropping a Paradoxical Outcome for an additional Jeskai Ascendancy to give myself 6 total looters?
Currently I'm playing 2 alongside paladin and riddlesmith, so I have 10 looters. I may take reservoir out for an outcome again since I never actually cast it yet when I was playing it.
Hi guys, new to the deck. I've proxied the cards and tried this deck this weekend for fun. Is it just me or the deck lack consistence?
A lot of times i get nothing but cheerios with nothing else that does something. A lot of the times, i get clunky hands (i'm running gameshark2k2 with
some slight changes). Drawing mass hysteria with no creature on the board, having riddlesmith with no ovalchase. Getting a hand with a damn
high curve (reservoir, mentor, paradoxical outcome and jeskai ascendancy with 2 lands and a cheerios). When you get a good hand, it can be a beast
but 60% of the time, i get crappy hand and get destroyed (i've tested agaisn't bant eldrazi and merfolk).
i don't know if i'm doing something wrong and that's why i'm asking for enlightment
Thx!
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Hi guys, new to the deck. I've proxied the cards and tried this deck this weekend for fun. Is it just me or the deck lack consistence?
A lot of times i get nothing but cheerios with nothing else that does something. A lot of the times, i get clunky hands (i'm running gameshark2k2 with
some slight changes). Drawing mass hysteria with no creature on the board, having riddlesmith with no ovalchase. Getting a hand with a damn
high curve (reservoir, mentor, paradoxical outcome and jeskai ascendancy with 2 lands and a cheerios). When you get a good hand, it can be a beast
but 60% of the time, i get crappy hand and get destroyed (i've tested agaisn't bant eldrazi and merfolk).
i don't know if i'm doing something wrong and that's why i'm asking for enlightment
Thx!
Welcome to the breakfast of champions tijo! I hope you are enjoying the deck so far.
As far as opening hands go, usually it's an enabler or bust when it comes to keeping. I keep Paladins in hand with 1,sometimes even 0 lands (very select hands - usually involving mantle and ornithopter or Opal with metalcraft hands) since I theoretically have a better chance to rip a land than a paladin effect. If it doesn't have at least one draw effect it's a snap mull. I do understand that some of the cards are very wonky if drawn before the combo begins, but the synergy with the other cards make certain cards "staples" for the deck(mass hysteria if on mentor plan, etc). The deck absolutely beats itself a portion of the time and that's to be expected with a deck playing a majority of cards that do legitimately nothing on their own, but the key is to limit that by knowing when to mulligan and when to keep. That will come as you gain experience with it. Hope this helps in your future endeavors with the deck
If you want a slightly more consistent deck list try my latest deck list (top of this page). I often find that you are able to keep hands that you wouldn't normally be able too - for example keeping a hand with two lands contraband kingpin and serum visions and several Cheerios means that you can often scry until you find your paladin. Proxy it and let me know what you think... It goes more for the combo and control approach but I like how it's working at the moment. Good luck
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Is it a good idea to have the mentor plan MB? I think goblin gaveler is a bit better as a MB option since it only cost 1. It would also help lower the curve a bit and have less clunky draws game 1.
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
I've tested with and without Gaveleer and with and without mentor. Gaveleer dies to the same things as paladin dies to(the terminates,bolts,paths,etc. of the world) whereas a mentor if left unchecked for even one turn can turn into an army that only a select number of cards can take care of. That being said, Gaveleer is a powerhouse in itself if left around, but it requires a different shell(sigarda's aid variants). its a matter of preference tbh, but mentor is extremely powerful vs the field.
There are a few other cards in the new set that could bear some amount of discussion.
Glint-Nest Crane - 1U Artifact filtering
Quicksmith Genius - 2R Helps search for answers
Salivating Gremlins - 2R but trample is a nice bonus
Underhanded Designs - 1B Less than perfect due to costing mana but could help w life loss
Liking Ascendancy and Outcome finding their way into things. I also think the Fireweaver is potentially good too
Not much activity lately, but is anyone progressing with this deck?
I've tried the new builds a couple times, starting with 4 puresteel paladin, 4 riddlesmith, 4 jeskai ascendancy and 4 ovalchase daredevil to max out the combo. Difficulty was that I would fairly often not hit enough equipment. I tried upping the equipment count, but then found myself hitting too much equipment. I cut a couple daredevils, but found that going too low on them wasn't desirable, as riddlesmith and ascendancy are kinda bad without them, so I settled at 3. The question then was: do I cut more smiths or more asendancies? Riddlesmith is faster and easier to play, but dies to removal. Ascendancy competes for the 3-mana slot, but triggers off more things and is hard to kill.
I will be testing my decklist (top of this page) at FNM this week and will feedback results. Ideally want to see how that deck gets on before trialing the build you're working on.
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Used the decklist above at last nights FNM. Went 1-3.
Game 1 vs Jund 1-2
Won first game on turn two. Second and third games struggled to keep paladin in my hand or on the board.
Game 2 vs Kiki Jiki 0-2
Didn't have good hands in either game and the mulligans weren't good at all. Never got off the mark and got beaten by the combo in both games.
Game 3 vs Burn 0-2
Got stuffed by Eidolon in both games and didn't find anything to get rid of it.
Game 4 vs Tron 2-0
Combo on turn two which fizzled. Drew a retract turn 3 and combo for the win. Game 2 had two paladins destroyed and 2 exiled. Managed to return one to my hand using noxious revival, pathed his Spellskite and combo for the win.
I think I will test the newest decklist and report findings. Anyone else been doing any testing?
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So, do we think quicksmith rebel is a useful addition to the deck list. A slightly more mana expensive version of ghirapur aether grid but doesn't have the benefit of lasting effects on the artifacts.
I'm also excited about pia's revolution - probably not fit for our deck, but it makes some strategies much better- like salvage titan. That said, it's probably better in a straight up affinity deck.
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Also what about reckless fireweaver? It seems insane in this deck. I could see taking out the grapeshot, ornthopter, and glinthawks for a playset. It isn't as resilient as grapeshot but if you are drawing your hole deck they will work the same. Also it does damage while we are setting up for the combo, I could see it helping us win games we otherwise wouldn't either due to fizzling or just by adding to the aggro plan. Not to mention it gets around leyline of sanctity. We could always have a 1-of grapeshot in the side if we really think we want it for a specific matchup. Thoughts?
As for fireweaver, Im not sold on it mainly because it's a creature, but i definitely see how it can impact the deck. It does die to the same removal spells as all our other enablers and we don't get extra value after playing our 3-4 cheers. Awhile ago molten nursery was considered but never made it to the 75 of most builds, despite it being harder to destroy, because it didn't do enough. If you're worried about leyline of sanctity, focus on the mentor aspect and go wide or aggro them out with goblin Gaveleer
On fireweaver though; the deck already appears to flop to a removed puresteel paladin anyway, so by adding the fireweaver we can actually attempt to overrun their removal with useful creatures. Glint hawk and ornthopter are never going to have removal pointed at them and don't do a whole lot for us in general. Between the fireweaver, mentor, paladin, and gaveleer that is a nice efficient creature package. I see why hawk and thopter were in the deck, but they just don't seem to do enough and are mostly filler. Molten nursery is a good comparison but the difference between 3 mana and 2 in a deck with so few lands is huge.
I am working on acquiring the pieces for the deck and will test the fireweaver along with ascendancy when I get a chance.
Also @ Gameshark, I don't quite understand the "and we don't get extra value after playing our 3-4 cheers" part. Could you please explain, in reference to fireweaver, this part of your argument?
How many are you currently running? I'm only running 1 right now with 2 Paradoxical Outcomes (there hasn't been a game where I haven't combo'd off immediately after casting it). Would you suggest dropping a Paradoxical Outcome for an additional Jeskai Ascendancy to give myself 6 total looters?
WRGBurnGRW
RBGJund Shadowvine[/mana]gbr[/mana]
RGTooth & NailGR
Standard:
BGBG Energy ConstrictorGB
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Accorder's Shield
3 Spidersilk Net
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Mox Opal
Other equips
1 Golem-skin Gauntlets
1 Basilisk Collar
Creatures
4 Puresteel Paladin
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Ornithopter
3 Goblin Gaveleer
Spells/enchant
1 Mass Hysteria
2 Sigarda's Aid
4 Repeal
4 Retract
1 Noxious Revival
2 Serum Visions
1 Grapeshot
1 Godless Shrine
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Flooded Strand
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear // Tear
2 Emerge Unscathed
3 Dispatch
1 Molten Nursery
1 Grid
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Erayo
Game 1 vs 8-whack 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand of seven with; gaveleer, aid, 2 land and 2 0 drops. Got hit my goblin guides early, managed to eventually hit back with gaveleer for 9 before it got blasted by two goblin grenades. Didn't draw anything else of use and lost soon after.
Sideboarded: 3 ethereal haze and 3 dispatch
Match 2: Kept hand of mentor, 4 land, 1 repeal and 0 drop. Drew two ethereal haze first few turns which limited damage for 2 turns. Managed to get mentor out and sadly only 1 token. Had to block goblin instigator and guide with mentor and token, then got overrun due to a shared animosity and numerous little goblins.
Game 2 vs infect 0-2
Match 1: Kept hand with gaveleer, 2 land, 2 repeal and remaining 0 drops. Managed to return a pumped glistened elf to opponents hand but eventually got beaten down by another elf and ink moth.
Sideboarded: 3 dispatch
Match 2: Mulliganed to 6 and kept hand of dispatch, mox, gaveleer, ornithopter and remaining 0 drops. No land! Dispatched first glistened elf, played gaveleer and drew into another dispatch. Misplayed second dispatch before opponent played vines of vastwood and gaveleer died. Didn't manage to come back from my mistake and lost two turns later.
Game 3 vs Tron 0-2
Match 1: kept hand of seven with paladin, 2 land, repeal, mox and remaining 0 drops. Drew a few cards off paladin but fizzled. Paladin promptly got exiled and didn't manage to recover. Did manage to get mentor out with 4 tokens but they all got blitzed.
Sideboarded: 1 erayo and 2 wear/tear
Match 2: mulled to five with no land. Bad choice. Kept mox, wear/tear, gaveleer and 0 drops. Didn't draw anything of use and succumbed to wurmcoil engine.
Game 4 vs Storm 2-0
Match 1: kept hand with paladin and won with grapeshot turn two. Deck worked perfectly!
Sideboarded: 2 leyline and 2 emerge unscathed
Match 2: both of us started with leylines on the board. I had hand with paladin and gaveleer. Managed to win on turn two with a massive gaveleer. Deck worked excellently again!
Had a great day but kept some really sketchy hands as well as misplaying a fair bit - definitely learnt a few lessons. As I said in my previous post I played two games against each of these decks after the logged games and didn't lose! Very frustrating.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Spidersilk Net
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Mox Opal
Creatures
4 Puresteel Paladin
3 Contraband Kingpin
Spells/enchant
1 Sigarda's Aid
4 Repeal
4 Retract
1 Noxious Revival
3 Serum Visions
1 Grapeshot
2 Spell Pierce
2 Twisted Image
1 Gitaxian Probe
2 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Flooded Strand
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear // Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Erayo
2 Ethereal Haze
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
What are everyone's thoughts? So far found that being able to scry before drawing means that the combo is a lot more consistent. The spell pierce often means protection for paladin and can often gaurantee grapeshot hits home. The twisted image and contraband kingpin can lead to life gain and also card draw. It can also be used on equipped paladin. Gitaxian probe can be used to check opponents hand for removal/threats and also adds to combo.
The sideboard including surgical extraction and inquisition enable a greater degree of control over the game to ensure the combo goes off. Opted for paths instead of dispatch due to not always having three artefacts when removal is required - particularly against infect etc.
Open to suggestions....
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Currently I'm playing 2 alongside paladin and riddlesmith, so I have 10 looters. I may take reservoir out for an outcome again since I never actually cast it yet when I was playing it.
A lot of times i get nothing but cheerios with nothing else that does something. A lot of the times, i get clunky hands (i'm running gameshark2k2 with
some slight changes). Drawing mass hysteria with no creature on the board, having riddlesmith with no ovalchase. Getting a hand with a damn
high curve (reservoir, mentor, paradoxical outcome and jeskai ascendancy with 2 lands and a cheerios). When you get a good hand, it can be a beast
but 60% of the time, i get crappy hand and get destroyed (i've tested agaisn't bant eldrazi and merfolk).
i don't know if i'm doing something wrong and that's why i'm asking for enlightment
Thx!
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
Welcome to the breakfast of champions tijo! I hope you are enjoying the deck so far.
As far as opening hands go, usually it's an enabler or bust when it comes to keeping. I keep Paladins in hand with 1,sometimes even 0 lands (very select hands - usually involving mantle and ornithopter or Opal with metalcraft hands) since I theoretically have a better chance to rip a land than a paladin effect. If it doesn't have at least one draw effect it's a snap mull. I do understand that some of the cards are very wonky if drawn before the combo begins, but the synergy with the other cards make certain cards "staples" for the deck(mass hysteria if on mentor plan, etc). The deck absolutely beats itself a portion of the time and that's to be expected with a deck playing a majority of cards that do legitimately nothing on their own, but the key is to limit that by knowing when to mulligan and when to keep. That will come as you gain experience with it. Hope this helps in your future endeavors with the deck
If you want a slightly more consistent deck list try my latest deck list (top of this page). I often find that you are able to keep hands that you wouldn't normally be able too - for example keeping a hand with two lands contraband kingpin and serum visions and several Cheerios means that you can often scry until you find your paladin. Proxy it and let me know what you think... It goes more for the combo and control approach but I like how it's working at the moment. Good luck
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
Glint-Nest Crane - 1U Artifact filtering
Quicksmith Genius - 2R Helps search for answers
Salivating Gremlins - 2R but trample is a nice bonus
Underhanded Designs - 1B Less than perfect due to costing mana but could help w life loss
Liking Ascendancy and Outcome finding their way into things. I also think the Fireweaver is potentially good too
I've tried the new builds a couple times, starting with 4 puresteel paladin, 4 riddlesmith, 4 jeskai ascendancy and 4 ovalchase daredevil to max out the combo. Difficulty was that I would fairly often not hit enough equipment. I tried upping the equipment count, but then found myself hitting too much equipment. I cut a couple daredevils, but found that going too low on them wasn't desirable, as riddlesmith and ascendancy are kinda bad without them, so I settled at 3. The question then was: do I cut more smiths or more asendancies? Riddlesmith is faster and easier to play, but dies to removal. Ascendancy competes for the 3-mana slot, but triggers off more things and is hard to kill.
I'm thinking that keeping the ascendancies is probably the way to go, but to reduce the risk of getting an ascendancy without a daredevil, either add more filtration, such as thoughtcast, serum visions and gitaxian probe, or add more creatures that leverage off it, like birds of paradise, glint hawk, monastery swiftspear, with possibly some tech like fling or retraction helix.
Thoughts?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Used the decklist above at last nights FNM. Went 1-3.
Game 1 vs Jund 1-2
Won first game on turn two. Second and third games struggled to keep paladin in my hand or on the board.
Game 2 vs Kiki Jiki 0-2
Didn't have good hands in either game and the mulligans weren't good at all. Never got off the mark and got beaten by the combo in both games.
Game 3 vs Burn 0-2
Got stuffed by Eidolon in both games and didn't find anything to get rid of it.
Game 4 vs Tron 2-0
Combo on turn two which fizzled. Drew a retract turn 3 and combo for the win. Game 2 had two paladins destroyed and 2 exiled. Managed to return one to my hand using noxious revival, pathed his Spellskite and combo for the win.
I think I will test the newest decklist and report findings. Anyone else been doing any testing?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Edit: misread the card. Ignore this post.
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU