Faith's Shield would do it, but I've opted to just play more threats in the form of bedlam reveler instead of waiting until 3 to be able to cast ascension and hold up shield.
A one-of Boros Charm SB might do but have never really tested it. Can also be an 8damage spell with an active Ascension. Though with Tamada's list, the Mentors probably come in against BGx matchups.
A one-of Boros Charm SB might do but have never really tested it. Can also be an 8damage spell with an active Ascension. Though with Tamada's list, the Mentors probably come in against BGx matchups.
I've been contemplating throwing Monastery Mentor in my SB, but am tentative. What match-ups is it brought in against, and can anyone relay their experiences with it? It's quite tempting!!
Decided that since I was only 4 cards shy of playing this that I would throw it together and see how things went!
I'm tempted to play Peek in this deck as the instant speed card draw that several people have toyed around with. I would prefer Opt, but alas... it's not legal. If only.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I've had between 0 and 2 in my board at various points. Comes in against BGx as extra threats, usually very good there. Can also go in vs eldrazi if you want to try to go wide, and anything else that has a lot of answers for your two mana threats I guess.
Only saw it in one game against jund, but in that game it was excellent.
I'm guessing against grindy matchups like BGx ones as mentioned before.
Actually, I'm thinking of a transformational SB that would turn the deck into a version of the UR/g prowess decks popping out lately.People will also likely board in Enchantment removal so we can SB out the Ascensions. This configuration will eat up alot of SB slots though and without Mutagenic Growth/Blossoming Defense, might not be reliable. Here's my rough draft of the said SB:
Boarding in the core, I'm planning on taking out 4x Pyromancer's Ascension, 2x Remand, 1x Faithless Looting and maybe 2x Though Scour. The latter two due to the fact we no longer have Ascension and putting cards in the GY is not as important.
Not a bad idea since most opponents usually bring in some sort of graveyard hate. Makes the deck less reliant on GY, which isn't bad.. I'm just tentative since it's alot of slots, what decks would you want to be transforming against?
@Nickums That's where the problem lies. Only prominent deck i can think of where the transformational SB will be good is against Dredge and maybe Affinity. The deck still has the same weakness against GBx decks. Maybe im just being too cute with the idea of the transformational SB.. not really sure as i havent tested it yet. Im really open to more suggestions on how to shore up our matchup against GBx.
As I also suggested, maybe a singleton Boros Charm (protect our threats and can also take down a ticked up Lili) as well as the 3 Blood Moons could be enough. Lets just hope they dont draw alot of discard.
finished 4-0 yesterday, beating bant spirits 2-0, death and taxes 2-0, living end 2-0 and rg breach 2-0. The deck felt really really powerfull. Maybe im exagerating, but i feel like im playing legacy with it.
i just played them against rg breach, and they made the lethal attack with the mentor and 3 or 4 tokens. it seems like the perfect fit for this deck. They are very good at racing, and they give a very little window to this kind of decks to execute their gameplan. Id like to test this card against gb or u/r decks, but my meta is a little different
As a newcomer to this thread, I got some questions for you.
Why do we prefer vision of beyond over sleight of Hand?
Is is that common to have more than 20 cards in our grave?
Moreover, do you have a SB guide for the deck?
I think it is time to get active in the thread again
Hey eiki92ii,
lets put it that way. Some people play Visions, some Sleight. There is an argument tho to play Sleight because you already are super GY reliant and it might not be good to rely that hard on your GY. But at the same time a resolved Rest in Peace kills us with Visions and most likely with Sleight of Hand, too.
A SB guide is in the making. Currently there is the SB Ryoichi provided at worlds and then there are some people experimenting with transofrmational SBs.
Till then one advice: GBx is hard. You are lucky that Jund is not that popular at the moment, but play your GY-Shenanigans carefully as the popularity of Dredge is hurting us very hard.
hi! look, ill tell you what i think, but im not tamada so... i really dont like sleight in this deck. 80% of our deck draw cards, so this kind of selection seems a little redundant. Visions of beyond is an instant, something really useful in this archetype, and last, we can get 20 cards in our graveyard really fast, and with an active pyromancer its even easier.
About sideboarding, i dont have a guide, but i tend to sideout probe, for example, against agresive decks, or looting against attrition decks because it is card disadvantage and, and this is a personal taste, i tend to sideout thought scours, cause i prefer to draw my sideboard cards instead of dumping them in my graveyard. This plan slow my strategy, but it give me more control about my draws
We need to figure a way to protect our Ascensions from stuff like Abrupt Decay, I have been having that issue recently.
Tamada said about this that he can win the MU if the JUND player only has 2 Abrupt Decays. With 3 to 4 he loses. We have to remember that we have 2 wincons (Thing and Ascension), which botb die to the normal removal JUND and some other decks are packing. In my opinion this is the reason why we should swap or split the Thing in the Ice with Young Pyromancers or Myth Realized/Monastery Swiftspear. I think Myth Realized could really give the deck a plan b. The more I think about Myth realized the more I like it
In a deck with Myth I would put the Things into the SB and board them in against aggro, but let them out against midrange and combo. Myth dodges sorcery removal, soaks up enchantment removal which protects our Pyromancers Ascensions and it gets huge.
Also you should not forget that Path is the supreme spell here and that we also use Rest for the Weary out of the SB. So unless you have crazy good removal and ways to gain life to improve the burn MU (e.g. not hurting it more by changing to black), the idea is not gonna work.
Well collective brutality is fantastic vs burn since its removal, life gain, and discard all in one.
Afterwards you regain the lost card advantage with Bedlam Reveler (who by the way is absolutely crucial in the jund matchup to counter their attrition)
Well collective brutality is fantastic vs burn since its removal, life gain, and discard all in one.
Afterwards you regain the lost card advantage with Bedlam Reveler (who by the way is absolutely crucial in the jund matchup to counter their attrition)
Bedlam Reveler is played in the JUND MU, atleast by me. I also play 2 or 3 MB depending on the meta. Regarding Collective Brutality: is the upside of the card being good enough that we want to lose all that whiote offers? While Collective Brutality can also reveal the opponents hand we must not forget that we already have a card that can do the same and cantrips: Gitaxian Probe. But I won't hinder you testing a version of it. To be honest I would like to embrace it. What would be your first version list?
Grixis runs delver instead of ascension because it's a better deck for snapcasters. Collective Brutality loves snapcaster, but not really pyromancer's ascencion. IMO, I guess though. I seem to be unable to get ascension to work at all lately with all the graveyard hate, though. It's crept into some mainboards because of dredge being so tough to manage.
I have no problem with getting the Ascension online. Can you provide a list for such a deck?
which deck? Grixis? I have played grixis delver as a loan from a person at my game store, and the tempo is just different from ours. We have lightning helix, they have snapcaster for their extra set of bolts instead. I would go to the main grixis delver thread for that.
If you meant my list, it is same as the one above, minus bedlam reveler and remand, and plus some mainboard anger of the gods and wraths, since I can't seem to get enough bolts to survive aggro decks.
Sorry man, I was mixing posts up from you and milliondegree. I thought you were milliondegree still talkin about a kind of grixis Ascension thing and wanted a list. But nevermind. My fault.
Regarding the Myth Realized list. It looks like the picture I attached to the post. But keep in mind: the mana is screwed at the moment - it needs to be more white/blueish. Gonna calculate it when I change the deck another time. Going forward with this list I would kick one myth realized out, maybe change the faithless lootings to Sleight of Hand, change the split between Young Pyromancer and Thing In the Ice, while kicking Thing in The Ice into the SB and think about one Bedlam in the SB as I drew them too much too early. Also I need to think about cards for the MB because if they are Instants/Sorceries we really would like 4 and not 3 or 2
As unperfect as it is, these is my current standing. Suggestions? Advice?
Well collective brutality is fantastic vs burn since its removal, life gain, and discard all in one.
Afterwards you regain the lost card advantage with Bedlam Reveler (who by the way is absolutely crucial in the jund matchup to counter their attrition)
Bedlam Reveler is played in the JUND MU, atleast by me. I also play 2 or 3 MB depending on the meta. Regarding Collective Brutality: is the upside of the card being good enough that we want to lose all that whiote offers? While Collective Brutality can also reveal the opponents hand we must not forget that we already have a card that can do the same and cantrips: Gitaxian Probe. But I won't hinder you testing a version of it. To be honest I would like to embrace it. What would be your first version list?
Cut the Things in the Ice because they end up just dying without accomplishing much whereas Reveler draws you 3 cards immediately and proceeds to beatdown.
Black probably isn't better than a white splash since Path, Helix, and Blessed Alliance are so good. Brutality does give some extra ability to interact with high-spell decks like valakut ramp and ad nauseum which white cannot do. I'm just a very big fan of the card and its versatility
I am wondering if dropping young pyromancer, and keeping thing in the ice would do well with 4 anger of the gods main instead? With no way to protect it I dont see pyromancer as strong because it floos late game and keeps us from wanting sweepers. But let me tell you how satisfying anger is with thing in the ice on board. Anger is even early enough usually to kill scavenging oozes. I havent tried reveler though, is he good enough to always want 2 mb?
Young Pyromancer definetely underperformed. Regarding Thing in the Ice and Bedlam Reveler. I don't like too much Revelers and I am not sure about Thing MB/SB and in which split either. The thing is (haha, punchline .. got it?): it blocks for 4 and when it flips it bounces the whole board. This is huge against Merfolk/Dredge/Robots. Of course Robots can refuel their board fast similar to Merfolk, but Dredge gets screwed a bit. Now we need to look what Thing provides that Anger of the gods doesn't do. Anger can't kill creatures over 3 toughness; considering the fact that Arcbound Ravager can sac a board in response to the trigger to get one or two creatures big and Cranial Plating gets simply too huge it is straight up similarly good as Thing on an undeveloped board and better than Anger postboard. Similar thing with Merfolk. When the lords pump the board above 3 toughness you are screwed plus the fact that Master of Waves and his elementals can get bounced, but you can't kill him with red burn spells. And Dredge gets totally screwed by bouncing their board onto the hand as they need to stop dredging for a second and throw their hands back into the GY to get their things back. All this things considered thing is more viable than Anger in my eyes as it also contributes to our plan and a 7/8 is nothing to laugh at. BUT, I do think that we only want 2 in the MB and 2 SB. Int he aggro MU I would bring them in, in the JUND MU or the mirror I would considering bringing them out and getting Path to Exile and the other Bedlams in.
But this are only my thoughts which might be wrong. Tell me your thoughts about it.
@Billiondegree: Sorry for mispelling your name. Also spicy URB list. Might give it a spin even though I think we lose too much life with this list at the moment. You wanna think of a SB too?
I think Anger of the Gods goes GREAT with thing in the ice. It survives and gets a counter. Also, Anger can be copied with ascension for the big things. Arcbound ravager sac in response means that if you flip your thing they lose everything, and plating doesnt add toughness. Lords can be bolted to weaken the whole field for an anger. I am looking at trying 4 anger, 3 things. Want 4 anger for ascension triggering since it gets scoured or looted. I see anger competing with young pyromancer for a slot, not thing in the ice. Having 2 ways to clear a board is good.
The slot I am not sure about is where Myth Realized would go in for, or bedlam reveler. Should I drop faithless looting and adjust more to the white mana?
I am not sure. I am not sure if we can drop Faithless Looting because we need draw. Also I dont think that you need 3 Bedlams in the MB, you can also go 2 Bedlams. Also I don't run Remand anymore ... mhm. Not Sure about it.
Hey folks, I've been wondering if its worth it to play the full set of Spirebluff Canals instead of sulfur falls and a few fetches? I've been thinking about immunity to choke and a smoother manabase against Aggro is worth it, we cap out at 3-4 lands generally anyways
Hey folks, I've been wondering if its worth it to play the full set of Spirebluff Canals instead of sulfur falls and a few fetches? I've been thinking about immunity to choke and a smoother manabase against Aggro is worth it, we cap out at 3-4 lands generally anyways
Those cards are heavily underplayed in modern. I wouldn't advise building around them. Also fetches thin your deck. I played with a overhauled mana base and it sucked balls. Fetched give you flexibility.
Edit: Faith's Shield, not faith's reward
I've been contemplating throwing Monastery Mentor in my SB, but am tentative. What match-ups is it brought in against, and can anyone relay their experiences with it? It's quite tempting!!
I'm tempted to play Peek in this deck as the instant speed card draw that several people have toyed around with. I would prefer Opt, but alas... it's not legal. If only.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Only saw it in one game against jund, but in that game it was excellent.
Actually, I'm thinking of a transformational SB that would turn the deck into a version of the UR/g prowess decks popping out lately.People will also likely board in Enchantment removal so we can SB out the Ascensions. This configuration will eat up alot of SB slots though and without Mutagenic Growth/Blossoming Defense, might not be reliable. Here's my rough draft of the said SB:
Transformational Core
3x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Kiln Fiend
2x Temur Battlerage
Rest
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Wear//Tear
2x Path to Exile
Boarding in the core, I'm planning on taking out 4x Pyromancer's Ascension, 2x Remand, 1x Faithless Looting and maybe 2x Though Scour. The latter two due to the fact we no longer have Ascension and putting cards in the GY is not as important.
As I also suggested, maybe a singleton Boros Charm (protect our threats and can also take down a ticked up Lili) as well as the 3 Blood Moons could be enough. Lets just hope they dont draw alot of discard.
My list for reference ("stock list")
4 visions of beyond
2 faithless looting
4 gitaxian probe
4 thought scour
4 manamorphose
4 lightning helix
4 lightning bolt
3 remand
4 pyromancer ascension
4 thing in the ice
1 bedlam reveler
1 sulfur falls
1 steam vents
1 hallowed fountain
2 sacred foundry
3 island
1 mountain
4 scalding tarn
4 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
1 swan song
2 molten rain (lived the dream of destroying 2 lands with pyro)
3 monastery mentor
3 path to exile
2 anger of the gods
2 wear/tear
I think it is time to get active in the thread again
Hey eiki92ii,
lets put it that way. Some people play Visions, some Sleight. There is an argument tho to play Sleight because you already are super GY reliant and it might not be good to rely that hard on your GY. But at the same time a resolved Rest in Peace kills us with Visions and most likely with Sleight of Hand, too.
A SB guide is in the making. Currently there is the SB Ryoichi provided at worlds and then there are some people experimenting with transofrmational SBs.
Till then one advice: GBx is hard. You are lucky that Jund is not that popular at the moment, but play your GY-Shenanigans carefully as the popularity of Dredge is hurting us very hard.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
About sideboarding, i dont have a guide, but i tend to sideout probe, for example, against agresive decks, or looting against attrition decks because it is card disadvantage and, and this is a personal taste, i tend to sideout thought scours, cause i prefer to draw my sideboard cards instead of dumping them in my graveyard. This plan slow my strategy, but it give me more control about my draws
Tamada said about this that he can win the MU if the JUND player only has 2 Abrupt Decays. With 3 to 4 he loses. We have to remember that we have 2 wincons (Thing and Ascension), which botb die to the normal removal JUND and some other decks are packing. In my opinion this is the reason why we should swap or split the Thing in the Ice with Young Pyromancers or Myth Realized/Monastery Swiftspear. I think Myth Realized could really give the deck a plan b. The more I think about Myth realized the more I like it
In a deck with Myth I would put the Things into the SB and board them in against aggro, but let them out against midrange and combo. Myth dodges sorcery removal, soaks up enchantment removal which protects our Pyromancers Ascensions and it gets huge.
I will post a list Myth Realized later on.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Collective Brutality does a decent lightning helix impression, and sometimes is even better depending on the matchup (infect)
Path can be substituted for terminate or maybe disfigure
What else does white give you that black doesnt?
Also you should not forget that Path is the supreme spell here and that we also use Rest for the Weary out of the SB. So unless you have crazy good removal and ways to gain life to improve the burn MU (e.g. not hurting it more by changing to black), the idea is not gonna work.
Greeting
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Afterwards you regain the lost card advantage with Bedlam Reveler (who by the way is absolutely crucial in the jund matchup to counter their attrition)
Bedlam Reveler is played in the JUND MU, atleast by me. I also play 2 or 3 MB depending on the meta. Regarding Collective Brutality: is the upside of the card being good enough that we want to lose all that whiote offers? While Collective Brutality can also reveal the opponents hand we must not forget that we already have a card that can do the same and cantrips: Gitaxian Probe. But I won't hinder you testing a version of it. To be honest I would like to embrace it. What would be your first version list?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I have no problem with getting the Ascension online. Can you provide a list for such a deck?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Sorry man, I was mixing posts up from you and milliondegree. I thought you were milliondegree still talkin about a kind of grixis Ascension thing and wanted a list. But nevermind. My fault.
Regarding the Myth Realized list. It looks like the picture I attached to the post. But keep in mind: the mana is screwed at the moment - it needs to be more white/blueish. Gonna calculate it when I change the deck another time. Going forward with this list I would kick one myth realized out, maybe change the faithless lootings to Sleight of Hand, change the split between Young Pyromancer and Thing In the Ice, while kicking Thing in The Ice into the SB and think about one Bedlam in the SB as I drew them too much too early. Also I need to think about cards for the MB because if they are Instants/Sorceries we really would like 4 and not 3 or 2
As unperfect as it is, these is my current standing. Suggestions? Advice?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Cut the Things in the Ice because they end up just dying without accomplishing much whereas Reveler draws you 3 cards immediately and proceeds to beatdown.
Black probably isn't better than a white splash since Path, Helix, and Blessed Alliance are so good. Brutality does give some extra ability to interact with high-spell decks like valakut ramp and ad nauseum which white cannot do. I'm just a very big fan of the card and its versatility
Young Pyromancer definetely underperformed. Regarding Thing in the Ice and Bedlam Reveler. I don't like too much Revelers and I am not sure about Thing MB/SB and in which split either. The thing is (haha, punchline .. got it?): it blocks for 4 and when it flips it bounces the whole board. This is huge against Merfolk/Dredge/Robots. Of course Robots can refuel their board fast similar to Merfolk, but Dredge gets screwed a bit. Now we need to look what Thing provides that Anger of the gods doesn't do. Anger can't kill creatures over 3 toughness; considering the fact that Arcbound Ravager can sac a board in response to the trigger to get one or two creatures big and Cranial Plating gets simply too huge it is straight up similarly good as Thing on an undeveloped board and better than Anger postboard. Similar thing with Merfolk. When the lords pump the board above 3 toughness you are screwed plus the fact that Master of Waves and his elementals can get bounced, but you can't kill him with red burn spells. And Dredge gets totally screwed by bouncing their board onto the hand as they need to stop dredging for a second and throw their hands back into the GY to get their things back. All this things considered thing is more viable than Anger in my eyes as it also contributes to our plan and a 7/8 is nothing to laugh at. BUT, I do think that we only want 2 in the MB and 2 SB. Int he aggro MU I would bring them in, in the JUND MU or the mirror I would considering bringing them out and getting Path to Exile and the other Bedlams in.
But this are only my thoughts which might be wrong. Tell me your thoughts about it.
@Billiondegree: Sorry for mispelling your name. Also spicy URB list. Might give it a spin even though I think we lose too much life with this list at the moment. You wanna think of a SB too?
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I am not sure. I am not sure if we can drop Faithless Looting because we need draw. Also I dont think that you need 3 Bedlams in the MB, you can also go 2 Bedlams. Also I don't run Remand anymore ... mhm. Not Sure about it.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Those cards are heavily underplayed in modern. I wouldn't advise building around them. Also fetches thin your deck. I played with a overhauled mana base and it sucked balls. Fetched give you flexibility.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR