As someone who's played a ton with Altar because of Saheeli combo, I can confidently say they (altar and your design) are about on the same power level. Because of fetchlands and thopter foundry, Altar is about as fast in a stalled board and has the benefit of being at your discretion, meaning you can mess up opponents scries or use bauble to fateseal. Exile is definitely good, but less good when you hold surgical.
Altar ain't great on it's own, but will beat UW control and is awesome against lantern control. I would never play it without Saheeli combo, though, FWIW.
So your build is the less explosive kind, I guess it's strenght has to lie in sheer power. And i think it must make up for lack of explosiveness with more disruptive elements and added big mana hate. That would be my overall read.
- This being said, I'd maybe like to see a third GQ somewhere in there, and a couple Surgical extraction in the side so you can tackle Tron more confidently. Going up to four Tezzes and Prisms would also help with that.
- I think Fatal Push, while super convenient in the early game, is a bit of a trap as you're not playing to trade 1-for-1 with their critters, you're in for the blow outs and virtual card advantage. That's the idea behid being all in on Thopter-Sword for instance. That's why I'd probably prefer a MB Damnation over the first Push, and perhaps another Brutality over the second. MB Liliana or second Decay could kick out the third one. EDIT: Taking that back, just saw you're only on two Bridges. This is one of your best card and a permanent Damnation / Fatal Push everything. Go up. MB Brutality massively synergizes with it and sword, while also helping both the Burn, aggro and control matches. These numbers have to go up.
- In my recent experience, Thoughtseize is way better than IoK in the present metagame (E-Tron, Titanshift, CoCo, Cryptics, etc.). Look into that; numbers.
- Altar of the Brood, if it belongs anywhere, would definitely be in the side. But with so many planeswalkers as alternate wincons, and Crucible of Worlds, I don't think you'll really need it. I'd swap it out for a MB Expedition Map to reinforce the toolbox aspect of your deck and help with mana development. Also some points against big mana.
- 3 Welding Jar MB seems mucho mucho. Second Lili could fit in one MB slot here I think.
- I don't think Elixir of Immortality is good enough when your main engine (and Tezz's ult, to be fair) - and inventor's fair haha - all gain you life. I'd rather it be Collective Brutality or smtg; way more versatile and disruptive for against Burn for example.
- I never liked Ashiok neither. At best he'll give you opponent's creatures. But you're an Ensnaring Bridge deck, so why should you care? Or maybe mill them out if you stall hard enough, but that's a stretch, when Tezz can kill them in just one turn. So I'd look into running one or two more «bomb-y» planeswalkers, since you're going for such a big build; Jace, Architect of Thought or Ob Nixilis Reignited. Vraska the Unseen, for funk points.
- Added some Spire of Industry and more fetches, for fixing.
So if I were designing this deck, I'd start somewhere around here:
I've been very underwhelmed by Time Sieve and found myself boarding it out so often, I've cut it completely and haven't looked back. Felt very win-more as many people can't beat Thopter/Sword once online nor can they beat Bridge/Tezzeret. Those are two different avenues to victory that attack on different axis, I never felt need for Time Sieve.
I've been running the "traditional" UBg version splashing green for sb options like Decay, although I've been toying with running the UBw version that splashes white for sb Fragmentize and Tidehollow Sculler/Ethersworn Canonist. Being able to Whir for Sculler is intriguing and Fragmentize deals with stuff like Stony, RiP, white/black Leyline for 1cmc.
In short I realized that my meta had just warped and that everyone had started including 2-4 SB slots just for me, so I basically stopped having a chance at g2 or 3. It hasn't been pretty. I figured this would be a good chance to scratch an itch that Opt gave me for a tranformational SB.
Here was what I ran tonight. Again I only post on my phone so apologies for formatting.
4 Mox Opal
3 Mishra's Bauble
2 Welding Jar
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdiggers Cage
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
2 pentad prism
4 Serum Vision
3 collective brutality
3 spreading seas
1 Sleight of Hand
4 whir of invention
4 tezzeret agent of bolas
Land (19)
3 island
4 gemstone caverns
4 polluted delta
1 scalding tarn
1 flooded strand
1 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
2 spire of industry
SB
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Sleight of Hand
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 quicksilver fountain
Match 1 zoo
I get the combo online fast, stabilize at turn 3 barely get around an obvious atarkas command
G2 same deal though he had two turns I would have been dead to a ghorclan rampager
Match 2 GW valuetown
G1 he's confused by what i'm playing. I get a gemstone speed combo online. I drop a turn 3 tez and plus him just rolling the dice that the kid won't alpha to lose his lotus cobras. He combos off with cobra/cobra/knight/azusa/ramunap/tireless tracker and has a board I would lose to if he were to untap. I ult Tez for the win.
He gets sad and brags about how mich hate he has for me, this happens a lot. I board out sword/sieve/foundry/whir and side in my entire SB. He sets a board I do nothing til Turn 3 when I play a mentor, then welding jar, mishra's, mox, serum visions leaving paradoxical outcome on top. He goes off and has a huge board. I paradoxical the next turn bounce all my facts and the monk token and draw all gas. Dump my hand get 5 triggers and swing in. He loses all his birds and goes to 11. Next turn he's drawing a ton of cards but it's all bad sword hate so i untap and beat him.
2-0
Rd 3 eldrazi tron
So I hate this stuff. The guy watched my last game and blind chalices me for 0. I manage to speed into bridge, he plays TKS takes thopter foundry. I play tezzeret tick up find foundry. He rips tron and plays karn, knocks out bridge and kills tez. I get sword play thopter sword with a sieve on the table. He untaps and all is dusts me.
I am tilted.
G2 he gets a fast TKS and smasher, I get thopter sword and topdeck whir for sieve to win.
G3 is really close. He plays shaper TKS then map ratchet bomb. I get fast thopter sword with mox. He swings with his dudes and i make 3 dudes with 2 lands untapped and triple block his thoughtnazi. He tries to search with map and I shadow of doubt him. Next turn I get a whir. He plays a TKS I whir for sieve and win. Total lucksack but hey... you need it against drazi. Apparently the shadow of doubt saved me from an all is dust that turn...
Match 4 GDS
He thoughtsiezes me takes a spreading seas, I draw a seas and get his watery. I basically then decide to play a tezzeret directly into a stub which I could have just waited a turn on. So then we topdeck war and surprise he wins.
G2 I side in some of the mentor package. Basically just upping threat density. So we do the stuff for a few turns (like him siezing my thopter foundry and then responding to my shadow of his fetch by surgicaling mt thopter). I have a bridge and a welding jar (two jars felt fantastic btw) I get monastery mentor and my hand is clogged with paradoxicals. He counters my eot paradoxical and snap surgicals it. I feel bad. Then I chain 3 serum visions together and feel good. He doesn't have enough blockers and dies.
G3 he turn 1 siezes me to find tezzeret, bridge, mox, jar, relic, island, serum. Felt really really good. Takes tez. I proceed to dump my hand, serum into thopter sword and play around the three stubs and surgical in his hand to run away with it.
Final record 4-0 and I got packs instead of credit and opened a Leovold.
Twas a Good night for tezzie.
I think the mentor package is promising and I'm definitely going to keep running w it. For a fleeting moment I thought "maindeck?"
@tugatog thanks, as I was writing that I couldn't remember if I actually bounced it or not when I wrote it, don't think I did because I ended up w 5 prowess that turnand I needed max dudes to punch through.
Thank you for the heads up, I was like "would be so cool to bounce thopter tokens bummer you can't" but I think I was so excited by the idea of triggering monk for an extra card I zoned out on the fact that it's a token.
@cerealkyra yes it will... I think? If I weren't playing the gemstone caverns it would be sleight for me. Opt is pretty dope for a combat trick with Mentor though.
Further notes////////
Upon testing more I'm really impressed with the way paradoxical outcome interacts with the deck post sideboard. The SB games I lose are when my key pieces are discarded or destroyed or my artifacts are locked out with stony and I have a board full of dead rocks. Having 4x of a card that can turn your dead on board artifacts into basically a sphinx's rev is really REALLY powerful. Since I added it I find myself praying for it with every sleight/serum. If I get tez or thopter sword I feel like "this could be fine I guess" hahahaha that's a good sign.
It's clear that what we need to do post side is put stress on their set of available answers. Trying to answer their answers (like abrupt for stony) seems like a losing proposition considering how much very good and synergistic artifact hate is out there, and how many different vulnerable angles we have built in (i.e. Gy hate/artifact hate/artifact wrath/artifact locks)
I feel like there is misconception about Opt. If you don't care about instant speed it is objectively worse than Sleight of Hand. Sleight is "do you want card A or card B" while Opt is "do you want card A or unknown card B".
By the way, Mishra's Bauble reprint for anyone who hasn't picked them up yet.
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Modern: Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
@sirpsychomantis Instants are dope and very very very very powerful.
A couple examples off the top.
1) Your opening hand has darkslick/push/u cantrip you don't know what you're playing against. Opt is CRAZY better than sleight here.
2) you have UUU and two non-combo artifacts turn three and your hand has whir/u cantrip your opponent will probably play Thoughtknot but might not. Opt is CRAZY better in that situation.
Phrases like 'strictly better' and 'objectively better' are all too commonly used when they are unnecessary and unhelpful. This is a forum for discourse. Let's discuss the virtues of two cards which are inexorably different and whos uses can dramatically affect the performance of the deck in question.
To be fair, paychomantis did qualify by stating that it is objectively better if one didn't care about instant speed. Though I do agree with your general sentiment about incorrect usage of strictly better, paychomantis is not incorrect in his observation.
I do think Opt is in a completely different league than sleight of hand though. Mana is tight, and I usually want to make my decisions after gleaning as much information as possible and I think the difference between knowing my opponents turn and knowing the 2nd card option aren't even close. To me the 2nd card is near irrelevant, either I want the first card, or I don't. Sleight of hand is almost the same....either you want the first card or you don't. The only difference the changes is the other information....with opt that information is your entire opponents turn, with sleight it's a random card from the top of your deck. I know which one I want to know.
If you had the choice.....Would you rather start the game with an emblem that reads 'you may look at the top card of your library at any time' or 'You may play spells as though they had flash'? That's the difference between Opt and Sleight of Hand.
Right, but I could say 'if you don't care about instant speed or drawing two extra cards sleight of hand is objectively better than ancestral recall'
The assertion is the unhelpful part. The question of value differences in cards is 'do you care?' That's the entire card selection process.
Except the qualifier in your example is irrelevant because drawing 2 extra cards is quantifiably better than simply looking at 1 more so it's an incorrect statement. His qualifier wasn't irrelevant, which made the assertion useful.
Well, just back home after a horrible losing streak:
FNM record 1-2; lost 0-2 to darn GB Elves where g1 back to back Shaman of the Pack topdecks killed me and G2 i mulled down to 4 looking for lands. Lost 1-2 to UG Infect, he was facing down lethal thopters but found the Nature's Claim for my Bridge and had a Blighted Agent to swing past my squad, that is before i could find Chalice of the Void or Welding Jar myself. Then I won 2-0 vs Boggles. Bleh.
40 men PPTQ today, scrubbed out 0-3 with a feelingt that my deck hates me now. R1 G1 I mull to 5 and get Vizier combo'ed pretty fast. G2 he Tidehollow Scullers a hole in my gameplan, Sculler which I remove, then he casts another one and Witness -> Scullers me some more and tempo's me out.
R2 vs Merfolk, I win G1 like we should. G2 well played, he slowrolls his threats with Mutavault beatdown and Vial shenanigans backup, so my Pulses and Damnation all go wasted 1-for-1'ing (i have to so i can empty my hand to setup a Bridge). Echoing Truth ruins the plan anyway. G3 I mull to 5 again and still manage to get to a boardstate with Sword, Sieve, Bridge and Tezz up. Tezz +1's FOUR friggin times yet I cant find a Foundry to go off. Right there i get Echoing-truth'ed outta top 8 contention.
R3 Affinity, 0-2. G1 mull to 5. What's wrong with my manabase these days? I Brutalize 2x Signal Pests and Bridge up but he draws a third one, has Plating and Ravager for the kill soon after. G3 I have no choice but to mull to five again, in complete tilt. Hand is lands, Foundry and Tezz. He vomits his on the board and I die on T3 no matter what I do.
Worst part is that for the PPTQ, I was up to 2x Damnation in the board to get an edge against creatures matchups.
The new blue legenday enchantment looks like it could be quite good for us. A better scry every upkeep, and then when we have 7 in the yard, a land that digs. With bauble and cantrips and fetchlands, the flip requirement will be easy to meet.
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Altar ain't great on it's own, but will beat UW control and is awesome against lantern control. I would never play it without Saheeli combo, though, FWIW.
I've been fiddling with this deck for a while.
Here's my current list:
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
Planeswalkers
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Sorcery
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
Artifacts
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Time Sieve
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Pentad Prism
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Alter of the Brood
1 Pithing Needle
3 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Torpor Orb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Damnation
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Liliana of the Veil
I do not have Mox Opal's or Mishra's Baubles, I'm concerned about Opal getting banned.
Any thoughts on how I can improve this list?
My Decks:
My input:
- This being said, I'd maybe like to see a third GQ somewhere in there, and a couple Surgical extraction in the side so you can tackle Tron more confidently. Going up to four Tezzes and Prisms would also help with that.
- I think Fatal Push, while super convenient in the early game, is a bit of a trap as you're not playing to trade 1-for-1 with their critters, you're in for the blow outs and virtual card advantage. That's the idea behid being all in on Thopter-Sword for instance. That's why I'd probably prefer a MB Damnation over the first Push, and perhaps another Brutality over the second. MB Liliana or second Decay could kick out the third one. EDIT: Taking that back, just saw you're only on two Bridges. This is one of your best card and a permanent Damnation / Fatal Push everything. Go up. MB Brutality massively synergizes with it and sword, while also helping both the Burn, aggro and control matches. These numbers have to go up.
- In my recent experience, Thoughtseize is way better than IoK in the present metagame (E-Tron, Titanshift, CoCo, Cryptics, etc.). Look into that; numbers.
- Altar of the Brood, if it belongs anywhere, would definitely be in the side. But with so many planeswalkers as alternate wincons, and Crucible of Worlds, I don't think you'll really need it. I'd swap it out for a MB Expedition Map to reinforce the toolbox aspect of your deck and help with mana development. Also some points against big mana.
- 3 Welding Jar MB seems mucho mucho. Second Lili could fit in one MB slot here I think.
- I don't think Elixir of Immortality is good enough when your main engine (and Tezz's ult, to be fair) - and inventor's fair haha - all gain you life. I'd rather it be Collective Brutality or smtg; way more versatile and disruptive for against Burn for example.
- I never liked Ashiok neither. At best he'll give you opponent's creatures. But you're an Ensnaring Bridge deck, so why should you care? Or maybe mill them out if you stall hard enough, but that's a stretch, when Tezz can kill them in just one turn. So I'd look into running one or two more «bomb-y» planeswalkers, since you're going for such a big build; Jace, Architect of Thought or Ob Nixilis Reignited. Vraska the Unseen, for funk points.
- Added some Spire of Industry and more fetches, for fixing.
So if I were designing this deck, I'd start somewhere around here:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Spire of Industry
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Planeswalkers
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
3 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
Artifacts (21)
1 Expedition Map
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Time Sieve
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Pentad Prism
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
2 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Thoughtseize
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
So far a funny thing with my build (4 gemstone cavern main is that I can turn 0 opt ha!)
Do you guys have any findings/thoughts?
I've been running the "traditional" UBg version splashing green for sb options like Decay, although I've been toying with running the UBw version that splashes white for sb Fragmentize and Tidehollow Sculler/Ethersworn Canonist. Being able to Whir for Sculler is intriguing and Fragmentize deals with stuff like Stony, RiP, white/black Leyline for 1cmc.
Current 75 for reference:
1 Expedition Map
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Executioner’s Capsule
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Pentad Prism
4 Mishra’s Bauble
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Whir of Invention
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Inventor’s Fair
1 Academy Ruins
1 Darksteel Citadel
2 Island
2 Spire of Industry
3 Watery Grave
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Witchbane Orb
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
After reading that, that's the first time I've been tempted to try a 4 Caverns build.
In short I realized that my meta had just warped and that everyone had started including 2-4 SB slots just for me, so I basically stopped having a chance at g2 or 3. It hasn't been pretty. I figured this would be a good chance to scratch an itch that Opt gave me for a tranformational SB.
Here was what I ran tonight. Again I only post on my phone so apologies for formatting.
4 Mox Opal
3 Mishra's Bauble
2 Welding Jar
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdiggers Cage
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
2 pentad prism
4 Serum Vision
3 collective brutality
3 spreading seas
1 Sleight of Hand
4 whir of invention
4 tezzeret agent of bolas
Land (19)
3 island
4 gemstone caverns
4 polluted delta
1 scalding tarn
1 flooded strand
1 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
2 spire of industry
SB
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Paradoxical Outcome
3 Sleight of Hand
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 quicksilver fountain
Match 1 zoo
I get the combo online fast, stabilize at turn 3 barely get around an obvious atarkas command
G2 same deal though he had two turns I would have been dead to a ghorclan rampager
Match 2 GW valuetown
G1 he's confused by what i'm playing. I get a gemstone speed combo online. I drop a turn 3 tez and plus him just rolling the dice that the kid won't alpha to lose his lotus cobras. He combos off with cobra/cobra/knight/azusa/ramunap/tireless tracker and has a board I would lose to if he were to untap. I ult Tez for the win.
He gets sad and brags about how mich hate he has for me, this happens a lot. I board out sword/sieve/foundry/whir and side in my entire SB. He sets a board I do nothing til Turn 3 when I play a mentor, then welding jar, mishra's, mox, serum visions leaving paradoxical outcome on top. He goes off and has a huge board. I paradoxical the next turn bounce all my facts and the monk token and draw all gas. Dump my hand get 5 triggers and swing in. He loses all his birds and goes to 11. Next turn he's drawing a ton of cards but it's all bad sword hate so i untap and beat him.
2-0
Rd 3 eldrazi tron
So I hate this stuff. The guy watched my last game and blind chalices me for 0. I manage to speed into bridge, he plays TKS takes thopter foundry. I play tezzeret tick up find foundry. He rips tron and plays karn, knocks out bridge and kills tez. I get sword play thopter sword with a sieve on the table. He untaps and all is dusts me.
I am tilted.
G2 he gets a fast TKS and smasher, I get thopter sword and topdeck whir for sieve to win.
G3 is really close. He plays shaper TKS then map ratchet bomb. I get fast thopter sword with mox. He swings with his dudes and i make 3 dudes with 2 lands untapped and triple block his thoughtnazi. He tries to search with map and I shadow of doubt him. Next turn I get a whir. He plays a TKS I whir for sieve and win. Total lucksack but hey... you need it against drazi. Apparently the shadow of doubt saved me from an all is dust that turn...
Match 4 GDS
He thoughtsiezes me takes a spreading seas, I draw a seas and get his watery. I basically then decide to play a tezzeret directly into a stub which I could have just waited a turn on. So then we topdeck war and surprise he wins.
G2 I side in some of the mentor package. Basically just upping threat density. So we do the stuff for a few turns (like him siezing my thopter foundry and then responding to my shadow of his fetch by surgicaling mt thopter). I have a bridge and a welding jar (two jars felt fantastic btw) I get monastery mentor and my hand is clogged with paradoxicals. He counters my eot paradoxical and snap surgicals it. I feel bad. Then I chain 3 serum visions together and feel good. He doesn't have enough blockers and dies.
G3 he turn 1 siezes me to find tezzeret, bridge, mox, jar, relic, island, serum. Felt really really good. Takes tez. I proceed to dump my hand, serum into thopter sword and play around the three stubs and surgical in his hand to run away with it.
Final record 4-0 and I got packs instead of credit and opened a Leovold.
Twas a Good night for tezzie.
I think the mentor package is promising and I'm definitely going to keep running w it. For a fleeting moment I thought "maindeck?"
But that's for another night.
Thank you for the heads up, I was like "would be so cool to bounce thopter tokens bummer you can't" but I think I was so excited by the idea of triggering monk for an extra card I zoned out on the fact that it's a token.
edit: @boomforest I assume Slight of Hand will be replaced by Opt once it drops?
Further notes////////
Upon testing more I'm really impressed with the way paradoxical outcome interacts with the deck post sideboard. The SB games I lose are when my key pieces are discarded or destroyed or my artifacts are locked out with stony and I have a board full of dead rocks. Having 4x of a card that can turn your dead on board artifacts into basically a sphinx's rev is really REALLY powerful. Since I added it I find myself praying for it with every sleight/serum. If I get tez or thopter sword I feel like "this could be fine I guess" hahahaha that's a good sign.
It's clear that what we need to do post side is put stress on their set of available answers. Trying to answer their answers (like abrupt for stony) seems like a losing proposition considering how much very good and synergistic artifact hate is out there, and how many different vulnerable angles we have built in (i.e. Gy hate/artifact hate/artifact wrath/artifact locks)
By the way, Mishra's Bauble reprint for anyone who hasn't picked them up yet.
Modern:
Tezzeret
???
Legacy:
Imperial Painter aka. Strawberry Shortcake
Tezzeret, aka. Dack in Black
Hope to never see this one, haha.
A couple examples off the top.
1) Your opening hand has darkslick/push/u cantrip you don't know what you're playing against. Opt is CRAZY better than sleight here.
2) you have UUU and two non-combo artifacts turn three and your hand has whir/u cantrip your opponent will probably play Thoughtknot but might not. Opt is CRAZY better in that situation.
Phrases like 'strictly better' and 'objectively better' are all too commonly used when they are unnecessary and unhelpful. This is a forum for discourse. Let's discuss the virtues of two cards which are inexorably different and whos uses can dramatically affect the performance of the deck in question.
I do think Opt is in a completely different league than sleight of hand though. Mana is tight, and I usually want to make my decisions after gleaning as much information as possible and I think the difference between knowing my opponents turn and knowing the 2nd card option aren't even close. To me the 2nd card is near irrelevant, either I want the first card, or I don't. Sleight of hand is almost the same....either you want the first card or you don't. The only difference the changes is the other information....with opt that information is your entire opponents turn, with sleight it's a random card from the top of your deck. I know which one I want to know.
If you had the choice.....Would you rather start the game with an emblem that reads 'you may look at the top card of your library at any time' or 'You may play spells as though they had flash'? That's the difference between Opt and Sleight of Hand.
The assertion is the unhelpful part. The question of value differences in cards is 'do you care?' That's the entire card selection process.
Except the qualifier in your example is irrelevant because drawing 2 extra cards is quantifiably better than simply looking at 1 more so it's an incorrect statement. His qualifier wasn't irrelevant, which made the assertion useful.
FNM record 1-2; lost 0-2 to darn GB Elves where g1 back to back Shaman of the Pack topdecks killed me and G2 i mulled down to 4 looking for lands. Lost 1-2 to UG Infect, he was facing down lethal thopters but found the Nature's Claim for my Bridge and had a Blighted Agent to swing past my squad, that is before i could find Chalice of the Void or Welding Jar myself. Then I won 2-0 vs Boggles. Bleh.
40 men PPTQ today, scrubbed out 0-3 with a feelingt that my deck hates me now. R1 G1 I mull to 5 and get Vizier combo'ed pretty fast. G2 he Tidehollow Scullers a hole in my gameplan, Sculler which I remove, then he casts another one and Witness -> Scullers me some more and tempo's me out.
R2 vs Merfolk, I win G1 like we should. G2 well played, he slowrolls his threats with Mutavault beatdown and Vial shenanigans backup, so my Pulses and Damnation all go wasted 1-for-1'ing (i have to so i can empty my hand to setup a Bridge). Echoing Truth ruins the plan anyway. G3 I mull to 5 again and still manage to get to a boardstate with Sword, Sieve, Bridge and Tezz up. Tezz +1's FOUR friggin times yet I cant find a Foundry to go off. Right there i get Echoing-truth'ed outta top 8 contention.
R3 Affinity, 0-2. G1 mull to 5. What's wrong with my manabase these days? I Brutalize 2x Signal Pests and Bridge up but he draws a third one, has Plating and Ravager for the kill soon after. G3 I have no choice but to mull to five again, in complete tilt. Hand is lands, Foundry and Tezz. He vomits his on the board and I die on T3 no matter what I do.
Worst part is that for the PPTQ, I was up to 2x Damnation in the board to get an edge against creatures matchups.
Just. Feels. Bad. Man.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.