Is there a real difference whether I play drum o skirge first? I feel like this is a good hand, because I can have either a turn 2 ravager or master
Also, which would be the better choice? Turn 2 master or turn 2 ravager + attack with skirge?
I know that if I get another 1 drop, the obvious answer would be to play the ravager, then tap the ravager & drum to play the 1 drop. But if I drew into a land, for example, or another 2 drop, what would be the best play?
- I'm on the play game 1
- I'm on the draw game 2 and I think they could have it
- I'm on the draw game 2 and don't think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and don't think theu could have it
As you can see, I'm looling for the general guidelines of having multiple options available, and when I should go for which
- I'm on the play game 1
- I'm on the draw game 2 and I think they could have it
- I'm on the draw game 2 and don't think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and don't think theu could have it
As you can see, I'm looling for the general guidelines of having multiple options available, and when I should go for which
If you're on the play game one, then I'd probably go Skirge->Ravager. If you're on the draw game 2 and you think they could have Ceremonious Rejection, I'd go for a turn 2 Master of Etherium. If you're on the play game 2 and they probably don't have it, I'd have to use information form game 1 to decide. If they have non-burn removal, I'd probably want to get Arcbound Ravager out there ASAP. If they have burn, I might want Master depending if I could get him to 4 toughness.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
How many Etched Champion is everyone running? I'm running 2 in the main and 1 in the sideboard. I've seen alot of people run the full 4 between main and side but I hate getting into a situation where I draw 2 copies in my opening hand.
It's a meta call: I run 3 Master of Etherium main and 3 Champs in the sideboard for the grindy matches (Abzan, Jund, Grixis, Jeskai)
This is what I have done for many months. I used to have four Etched Champions in the side-board way back when, but I have always favored Master of Etherium for the main-deck.
Perhaps incorrectly, I generally side out Steel Overseer for the Champs although I may side-out some of the Masters as well depending on what I else I bring in.
I've been out of the competitive scene for about 9 months now and looking to hit up my local GP's Modern Classic in August. I get all of the sideboard adjustments that have happened in that time but there's still one thing that's a mystery to me:
Glimmervoid vs. Spire of Industry
The numbers differ pretty dramatically across lists, but mostly I see 3x Glimmervoid/1x Spire. I assume there was some decent discussion on this some months back - if so, could someone provide me the page number? Or even a summary of the advantages of Spire.
I have to imagine that Glimmervoid is better than Spire in 95% of all situations. Is it that Spire is mulligan insurance? I know we all hate those 1-landers with Glimmervoid, no 0 drops, and only a 1 drop to play out.
Also: how's Welding Jar looking right now? It seems strong against Fatal Pushes everywhere but still obviously weak to Path.
Been doing some testing with Tezz as of late to help with the Grindy matches. I have to say I'm quite impressed if you can protect him for a turn he just takes over the games insanely quick. I've tweaked the mana base slightly for the double cost by play a 3-3 split of spire and glimmervoid. Which isn't to much of a hinderance as post board games sometimes you're sometimes boarding in up to 10 colored spells
I've been out of the competitive scene for about 9 months now and looking to hit up my local GP's Modern Classic in August. I get all of the sideboard adjustments that have happened in that time but there's still one thing that's a mystery to me:
Glimmervoid vs. Spire of Industry
The numbers differ pretty dramatically across lists, but mostly I see 3x Glimmervoid/1x Spire. I assume there was some decent discussion on this some months back - if so, could someone provide me the page number? Or even a summary of the advantages of Spire.
I have to imagine that Glimmervoid is better than Spire in 95% of all situations. Is it that Spire is mulligan insurance? I know we all hate those 1-landers with Glimmervoid, no 0 drops, and only a 1 drop to play out.
Also: how's Welding Jar looking right now? It seems strong against Fatal Pushes everywhere but still obviously weak to Path.
I have found spire to be more beneficial than glimmervoid for mulligan insurance and a 1 of welding jar has been very good with this current meta and all the fatal pushes
How do we sideboard/play against the current tier 1 decks e.g. Grixis Shadow, Eldrazi Tron and Vizier Combo?
What are key-plays/cards to watch out for in post-board games?
E-tron we should be heavily favored, but take out the etched champions and bring in things like dispatch/blood moon or ancient grudge (wurmcoil/maps/ballista etc). Like I said, this is a great MU for us, but dispatch helps for their bigger eldrazi and BM slows them down since we can cheese it out.
For grixis, i like to bring in any champions from the board, blood moons, and dispatch if you're running them, taking out master of etheriums (don't want too much colored mana spells)and steel overseers (they're generally removal magnets and GDS has plenty of removal. If you're running a full set of galvanic blast, I like shaving one, maaayyyybee 2 of those since their creatures generally dodge it regardless. The GDS player is also generally (or should be) aware of potential 4 damage to not go too crazy hurting themselves. Their manabase is so fragile that BM reallllyyy shines here and they generally don't see it coming.
for the new CoCo combo, thoughtseize/ whipflares. TS helps take away major bombs/combo pieces and whipflare is a great board wipe against their small guys. Holding up spot removal for kataki is key, though. I would take out a memnite or 2, your basic if you're running one/ on the draw, and thoughtcast if you're running them, and maybe an overseer (in that order of priority). I try to keep this MU sideboard light.
Ricky Chin posted this article to Massdrop 5 days ago and I just had the chance to read it.
He discusses the viability of Hazoret in Affinity and I think makes a good case for her against non-Path decks.
The part that piqued my interest (and helped me over the 4cmc/non-artifact hurdle) was that: she can be a better closer than Etched Champion, she stone-walls a big attacker, and all the while has an activated ability that is quite often relevant. I noticed Chin does play 2 MoE/3 EC, and these make his curve even higher..
Has anyone here tried Hazoret? It seems super meta-dependent but I'm totally interested in trying out a copy or two at an FNM.
There are times when I never even draw opal and I win easily and just as smoothly as I do when I do draw opal.
There is no denying that when you draw opal in a good hand it makes that hand 100 times better but I honestly believe that the deck could still do OK without it. But yes mox opal increases its power for sure, no doubts about it. Now that being said I dont believe the deck would be as competitiive as it is. Like I said it would be an OK deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Hey, so I recently came back to the game after a 10-month break, and in Standard I built mono-red aggro with 4x Bomat Courier. Then the more I thought about it, I started thinking... why not play this card in Modern Affinity?
I think I'm going to try it. At first I was having a hard time figuring out which creatures to swap out for it, since pretty much all the creatures in the deck seem so crucial at this point, and then I realized... just swap out the Thoughtcasts. It only takes two hits from this to draw you the same number of cards, but it has the upside to doing damage and counting for all the artifact-related effects elsewhere in the deck.
I am super interested in the Hazoret variant, and would love to give it a whirl this saturday. If anyone tries it out this Friday can they give some feedback as to how it went?
Hey guys.So,I read this thread sometimes, and as I will play GP Sao Paulo in a few weeks and Affinity is my go-to modern deck,I decided to create an account in order to ask yours opinions on some subjects.
1- Is Tempered Steel version consisent ? It has been working a lot with 3 in maindeck,replacing Inkmoth Nexus with more Spire of Industry/Glimmervoid and making some small changes,like adding more Memnites and 3 Ethed Champion MD,but I dont think i´ve played enough to confirm ,so it would be nice to know if anyone has been trying this version.
2- Is the Grixis Death Shadow match hard? Some people says it´s really hard,some say it´s good.
3- What is better nowadays,Dredge or Affinity ? Im considering to play Dredge because it seems better positioned,but have much more experience with Affinity
Hey guys.So,I read this thread sometimes, and as I will play GP Sao Paulo in a few weeks and Affinity is my go-to modern deck,I decided to create an account in order to ask yours opinions on some subjects.
1- Is Tempered Steel version consisent ? It has been working a lot with 3 in maindeck,replacing Inkmoth Nexus with more Spire of Industry/Glimmervoid and making some small changes,like adding more Memnites and 3 Ethed Champion MD,but I dont think i´ve played enough to confirm ,so it would be nice to know if anyone has been trying this version.
2- Is the Grixis Death Shadow match hard? Some people says it´s really hard,some say it´s good.
3- What is better nowadays,Dredge or Affinity ? Im considering to play Dredge because it seems better positioned,but have much more experience with Affinity
1. I have no clue about this lol. Personally, I feel like it may be a little slow, and taking out the inkmoths takes out the possbility of winning via infect which doesn't sound too good to me
2. It's actually an all-around even match up. I feel like game 1 we are favored because they don't have enough removal to keep up with everything, and their discard spells are pretty much useless after our turn 2/3. Post board they usually side in Stony Silence (those that splash white, which most usually do) and/or Lingering Souls. But I still feel it's a good match up for us, because we can swing for large amounts of damage with plating and ravager
3. Well, there's a lot of graveyard hate in the meta because of Grixis DS, so there is naturally going to be a lot of hate against dredge I feel
I played 4 rounds at my LGS last night with this list and went 3-1.
It was my first time playing with Spire and I really was loving the mulligan insurance. I ran all 4 but I think I might go down to 3 as a consideration against burn - the more burn in the meta the fewer Spires I'd like to play.
The real test was for Hazoret. In my 4 matches, I only drew her once. I sided her out against Burn and Abzan Company for fear of Paths. I left her in but did not bring in the second copy against Esper Gifts (after game 1 I thought it still might be some kind of Esper Shadow).
When I did draw Hazoret, I had my opponent down to 5 life. I had a Rest in Peace out and he had a Stony Silence. I had done most of my damage with Signal Pests and Memnites. The Pest got path'd and I kept chipping away until he tapped out for a Damnation. Hazoret off the top next turn won the game (and I wouldn't've had the 4th without the path ramp).
What this tells me is that a good top-deck is always good. It's hard to evaluate her because I only drew her the once. I will say that in that situation, I would not have won the game if she had been another Etched Champion. She also wouldn't have died to that Damnation earlier.
My gut feeling based on my local meta is that she's great against a lot of Tier 1 decks but not great against decks responding to DS or Eldrazi - they tend to contain Path. Because many LGS metas are just people playing the decks they have and retuning for the overall meta (as I have done here), she might not excel in these situations. I am definitely going to take her to my next larger, regional event.
Hey guys.So,I read this thread sometimes, and as I will play GP Sao Paulo in a few weeks and Affinity is my go-to modern deck,I decided to create an account in order to ask yours opinions on some subjects.
1- Is Tempered Steel version consisent ? It has been working a lot with 3 in maindeck,replacing Inkmoth Nexus with more Spire of Industry/Glimmervoid and making some small changes,like adding more Memnites and 3 Ethed Champion MD,but I dont think i´ve played enough to confirm ,so it would be nice to know if anyone has been trying this version.
2- Is the Grixis Death Shadow match hard? Some people says it´s really hard,some say it´s good.
3- What is better nowadays,Dredge or Affinity ? Im considering to play Dredge because it seems better positioned,but have much more experience with Affinity
Tempered Steel is just too slow. The card itself takes entirely too long to setup, and the double white really hurts in casting as you would have to drop firepower in favour of more coloured lands.
I think I spotted a new card which could be great in affinity but I have few opportunities to test it: Driven // Despair.
It could replace Thoughtcast, having the potential to draw more cards than it as early as T2. It costs one more than the best case scenario Thoughcast but then it does also give Trample for some late game options. There's pros and cons to it really and I can see Thoughcast edging it out by being less dependant on other cards in play and successful combat.
What really interests me though is the flashback mode, which I think is where the real potential is. There's lots of times where you can attack with lots of weak creatures, perhaps some Signal Pest boosted Ornithopters and Blinkmoths. This card can make them discard their entire hand.
That card I find really really bad.The first part is a more expensive Thoughtcast usually, only a few situations it might draw an extra card. Its a sorcery so people can see it coming a mile ahead and plan blockers accordingly.
The second part is only interesting for the menace. UNless you're playing combo (and then Thoughtseize >>>>>> this card) discard isnt interetsing at all. Your goal is 20 damage or 10 poison and paying 2 to make the opponent choose and discard one or two cards is just bad. The same cost could be used to animate a manland or equip a plating.
Tested Bomat Courier last night. Only drew it once in 4 matches, but it was great! I got 4 cards out of it and forced my opponent to waste a removal spell. I will be going up to 4 in the deck soon.
So, uh... Supreme Verdict? What's the strategy against the deck that plays 4 of these? Heroic Intervention seems like a possibility.
Are you on the play or draw? Do you think they have Ceremonious Rejection?
- I'm on the play game 1
- I'm on the draw game 2 and I think they could have it
- I'm on the draw game 2 and don't think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and think they could have it
- I'm on the play game 2 and don't think theu could have it
As you can see, I'm looling for the general guidelines of having multiple options available, and when I should go for which
If you're on the play game one, then I'd probably go Skirge->Ravager. If you're on the draw game 2 and you think they could have Ceremonious Rejection, I'd go for a turn 2 Master of Etherium. If you're on the play game 2 and they probably don't have it, I'd have to use information form game 1 to decide. If they have non-burn removal, I'd probably want to get Arcbound Ravager out there ASAP. If they have burn, I might want Master depending if I could get him to 4 toughness.
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
GBGlissa, the Traitor
Modern
X Affinity
EDH
BUGTasigur, the Golden Fang (French 1v1)
Modern
RWG Burn
This is what I have done for many months. I used to have four Etched Champions in the side-board way back when, but I have always favored Master of Etherium for the main-deck.
Perhaps incorrectly, I generally side out Steel Overseer for the Champs although I may side-out some of the Masters as well depending on what I else I bring in.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Glimmervoid vs. Spire of Industry
The numbers differ pretty dramatically across lists, but mostly I see 3x Glimmervoid/1x Spire. I assume there was some decent discussion on this some months back - if so, could someone provide me the page number? Or even a summary of the advantages of Spire.
I have to imagine that Glimmervoid is better than Spire in 95% of all situations. Is it that Spire is mulligan insurance? I know we all hate those 1-landers with Glimmervoid, no 0 drops, and only a 1 drop to play out.
Also: how's Welding Jar looking right now? It seems strong against Fatal Pushes everywhere but still obviously weak to Path.
I have found spire to be more beneficial than glimmervoid for mulligan insurance and a 1 of welding jar has been very good with this current meta and all the fatal pushes
E-tron we should be heavily favored, but take out the etched champions and bring in things like dispatch/blood moon or ancient grudge (wurmcoil/maps/ballista etc). Like I said, this is a great MU for us, but dispatch helps for their bigger eldrazi and BM slows them down since we can cheese it out.
For grixis, i like to bring in any champions from the board, blood moons, and dispatch if you're running them, taking out master of etheriums (don't want too much colored mana spells)and steel overseers (they're generally removal magnets and GDS has plenty of removal. If you're running a full set of galvanic blast, I like shaving one, maaayyyybee 2 of those since their creatures generally dodge it regardless. The GDS player is also generally (or should be) aware of potential 4 damage to not go too crazy hurting themselves. Their manabase is so fragile that BM reallllyyy shines here and they generally don't see it coming.
for the new CoCo combo, thoughtseize/ whipflares. TS helps take away major bombs/combo pieces and whipflare is a great board wipe against their small guys. Holding up spot removal for kataki is key, though. I would take out a memnite or 2, your basic if you're running one/ on the draw, and thoughtcast if you're running them, and maybe an overseer (in that order of priority). I try to keep this MU sideboard light.
Affinity
Death & Taxes
Mardu Nahiri
Forcing people to merge with twitch is stupid
He discusses the viability of Hazoret in Affinity and I think makes a good case for her against non-Path decks.
The part that piqued my interest (and helped me over the 4cmc/non-artifact hurdle) was that: she can be a better closer than Etched Champion, she stone-walls a big attacker, and all the while has an activated ability that is quite often relevant. I noticed Chin does play 2 MoE/3 EC, and these make his curve even higher..
Has anyone here tried Hazoret? It seems super meta-dependent but I'm totally interested in trying out a copy or two at an FNM.
Edit: grammar.
There are times when I never even draw opal and I win easily and just as smoothly as I do when I do draw opal.
There is no denying that when you draw opal in a good hand it makes that hand 100 times better but I honestly believe that the deck could still do OK without it. But yes mox opal increases its power for sure, no doubts about it. Now that being said I dont believe the deck would be as competitiive as it is. Like I said it would be an OK deck.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I think I'm going to try it. At first I was having a hard time figuring out which creatures to swap out for it, since pretty much all the creatures in the deck seem so crucial at this point, and then I realized... just swap out the Thoughtcasts. It only takes two hits from this to draw you the same number of cards, but it has the upside to doing damage and counting for all the artifact-related effects elsewhere in the deck.
1- Is Tempered Steel version consisent ? It has been working a lot with 3 in maindeck,replacing Inkmoth Nexus with more Spire of Industry/Glimmervoid and making some small changes,like adding more Memnites and 3 Ethed Champion MD,but I dont think i´ve played enough to confirm ,so it would be nice to know if anyone has been trying this version.
2- Is the Grixis Death Shadow match hard? Some people says it´s really hard,some say it´s good.
3- What is better nowadays,Dredge or Affinity ? Im considering to play Dredge because it seems better positioned,but have much more experience with Affinity
1. I have no clue about this lol. Personally, I feel like it may be a little slow, and taking out the inkmoths takes out the possbility of winning via infect which doesn't sound too good to me
2. It's actually an all-around even match up. I feel like game 1 we are favored because they don't have enough removal to keep up with everything, and their discard spells are pretty much useless after our turn 2/3. Post board they usually side in Stony Silence (those that splash white, which most usually do) and/or Lingering Souls. But I still feel it's a good match up for us, because we can swing for large amounts of damage with plating and ravager
3. Well, there's a lot of graveyard hate in the meta because of Grixis DS, so there is naturally going to be a lot of hate against dredge I feel
It was my first time playing with Spire and I really was loving the mulligan insurance. I ran all 4 but I think I might go down to 3 as a consideration against burn - the more burn in the meta the fewer Spires I'd like to play.
The real test was for Hazoret. In my 4 matches, I only drew her once. I sided her out against Burn and Abzan Company for fear of Paths. I left her in but did not bring in the second copy against Esper Gifts (after game 1 I thought it still might be some kind of Esper Shadow).
When I did draw Hazoret, I had my opponent down to 5 life. I had a Rest in Peace out and he had a Stony Silence. I had done most of my damage with Signal Pests and Memnites. The Pest got path'd and I kept chipping away until he tapped out for a Damnation. Hazoret off the top next turn won the game (and I wouldn't've had the 4th without the path ramp).
What this tells me is that a good top-deck is always good. It's hard to evaluate her because I only drew her the once. I will say that in that situation, I would not have won the game if she had been another Etched Champion. She also wouldn't have died to that Damnation earlier.
My gut feeling based on my local meta is that she's great against a lot of Tier 1 decks but not great against decks responding to DS or Eldrazi - they tend to contain Path. Because many LGS metas are just people playing the decks they have and retuning for the overall meta (as I have done here), she might not excel in these situations. I am definitely going to take her to my next larger, regional event.
Tempered Steel is just too slow. The card itself takes entirely too long to setup, and the double white really hurts in casting as you would have to drop firepower in favour of more coloured lands.
That card I find really really bad.The first part is a more expensive Thoughtcast usually, only a few situations it might draw an extra card. Its a sorcery so people can see it coming a mile ahead and plan blockers accordingly.
The second part is only interesting for the menace. UNless you're playing combo (and then Thoughtseize >>>>>> this card) discard isnt interetsing at all. Your goal is 20 damage or 10 poison and paying 2 to make the opponent choose and discard one or two cards is just bad. The same cost could be used to animate a manland or equip a plating.
So, uh... Supreme Verdict? What's the strategy against the deck that plays 4 of these? Heroic Intervention seems like a possibility.
EDIT: I'm gonna try that. Here's my current list.
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Mountain
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Bomat Courier
3x Etched Champion
2x Master of Etherium
3x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
2x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
2x Galvanic Blast
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Dispel
1x Ghirapur AEther Grid
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Heroic Intervention
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
2x Thoughtseize
Get them to four-life or less before they play it and then Blast 'em. Of course, just killing them works too.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
For decks that run supreme verdict, hit them as fast as possible. As soon as they get 3 mana, try and hold on to 1 or 2 creatures to rebuild the board
Affinity
Legacy:
GBCombo Elves
EDH:
GEzuri, Renegade Leader's Elf Ball
Cube:
180 Peasant Micro Cube