I was playing against Bant Eldrazi recently, and he played Thought-Knot, took my Ulamog over some other threats. I didn't even have Tron or an immediate path to it, but his reasoning was that he has no answer for Ulamog, but he can deal with my other threats. I ended up winning the match, but just having the threat of something like Ulamog or Ugin makes people think twice. They are scary-powerful cards.
As a Newer Eldrazi Tron player i think that Westvale Abby has great potential in a deck like this, but i think that for making it able to work consistently, an Eldrazi Tron deck wil have to play Blight Herders and potentially Oblivion Sower, to get more cards into exile. I think that type of build would be better against Control decks because with Oblivion Sower it is alot easir to get to 8+ Mana and play Ugin as a two off instad of Karn but suffer in the Mirrors that Use Endbringer
It seems that the TitanShift & Affinity are our toughest MatchUps, they might be solved by the replacement of Walking Ballista/ Basilisk Collar with Kozilek's Return and an addition of Crumble to Dust for Mirrors/ TitanShifts. Plus, Eldrazi Obligator might be useful for Mirrors as well as TitanShift, getting the Titan perhaps. These cards can all be casted by the Corrupted Crossroads.
Wait, why would you want to get rid of Ballista when teching against Affinity? It's great in that matchup. I think the best approach to the matchup is to jam the likes of Pithing Needles and the like in your sideboard to stymie them. If that's not enough for you, the SSG + Kozilek's Return package can take its place.
It seems that the TitanShift & Affinity are our toughest MatchUps, they might be solved by the replacement of Walking Ballista/ Basilisk Collar with Kozilek's Return and an addition of Crumble to Dust for Mirrors/ TitanShifts. Plus, Eldrazi Obligator might be useful for Mirrors as well as TitanShift, getting the Titan perhaps. These cards can all be casted by the Corrupted Crossroads.
Yeah, I really don't think adding a color to this deck is a good idea. You're really stretching the manabase to do things that are only situationally better. And there's really no reason to use Simian Spirit Guide IMO. The deck is consistent and powerful as it is, and adding Guide just removes consistency in exchange for occasional explosiveness, which I don't think is worth it. I do get that it also works as fixing in that list, but still. Also Crumble to Dust isn't really that great against Titan Shift. Good, but not great. Eldrazi Obligator is an interesting one.
I do understand the desire to find ways to beat Titan Shift and Affinity as they're so bad for us, but if you're seeing them both tons, the solution may simply be to play a different deck. Personally I switched to GW Tron with 4 SB Leyline of Sanctity for the time being. We'll see how it goes.
There was a RG Tron/Etron hybrid list that placed at a Japanese GP maybe a couple months ago. Don't have the list on hand, but something like that might be good.
As a Newer Eldrazi Tron player i think that Westvale Abby has great potential in a deck like this, but i think that for making it able to work consistently, an Eldrazi Tron deck wil have to play Blight Herders and potentially Oblivion Sower, to get more cards into exile. I think that type of build would be better against Control decks because with Oblivion Sower it is alot easir to get to 8+ Mana and play Ugin as a two off instad of Karn but suffer in the Mirrors that Use Endbringer
I think you have described why no one is really trying Abbey. It will take a lot of changing of the deck and watering down its efficiency just to run a card that gets a 9/7 flyer with some other perks. Might as well fine tune the deck to play a much BETTER card in Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as the big finisher. He fits into the deck without having to make changes and compromises. My inner "Timmy" longs for Ormendahl but I scratch that itch with Ulamog, others should consider that. Thanks for the post though.
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Hey guys, been busy the past couple weeks so I haven't played much since the 4th of July weekend, but with PPTQ season upon us I thought it would be useful to myself and you guys to look at some data from the leagues I jammed over the long weekend of the 4th. My apologies in advance for the lengthy post. I understand it's a small sample size, but I think the information is still useful when deciding how to fill the 75. These were all MTGO leagues, and I think give a pretty good representation of how often you'll run into T1, T2, and T3 decks at a PPTQ or higher/larger level event. The maindeck was standard and did not change through all 14 leagues, if you go by Todd Steven's usual list the only deviation in the main is -1 relic, +1 collar. For the first five leagues I ran without surgicals in the side for some extra spot removal, but after some testing did not feel comfortable running without them. Dredge was a big issue not being able to extract either amalgams or bloodghasts.
League 6
UW Control 0-2
Druid CoCo 2-1
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Bant Eldrazi 0-2
Ad Nauseam 1-2 Record = 2-3
League 7
Affinity 2-1
Grixis Shadow 0-2
GR Ponza 1-2
Burn 2-1
Goblins 1-2 Record = 2-3
League 8
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Kiki-Evo-Chord 2-1
Titanshift 1-2
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
Affinity 1-2 Record = 3-2
League 9
Burn 1-2
Burn 2-0
Affinity 0-2
GW Humans 2-0
Living End 0-2 Record = 2-3
League 10
Living End 2-0
GB Tron 0-2
Dredge 2-1
Burn 2-1
Titanshift 2-0 Record = 4-1
League 11
GW Tron 0-2
GW Tron(rematch) 2-1
Abzan 2-1
Grixis Shadow 0-2
Smallpox 2-0 Record = 3-2
League 12
UW Control 2-0
Sun & Moon 2-0
Druid CoCo 0-2
Living End 2-0
Blood/Nahiri Brew 1-2 Record = 3-2
League 13
GB Tron 2-0
GW Humans 0-2
Dredge 0-2
Abzan 2-1
GR Ponza 2-1 Record = 3-2
League 14
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Grixis Shadow(rematch) 0-2
Affinity 1-2
Burn 2-1
UW Control 2-1 Record = 3-2
Overall Record = 41 wins, 29 losses, winrate = 58.57%
I am quite satisfied with a near 60% overall winrate on mtgo leagues across a large sample size, the level of competition is higher than what you'd typically see at a local store for paper tournaments. Both in my piloting of the deck and in the strength of the deck in modern, sustaining a well above 50% winrate against high level competition on mtgo is a good indicator of potential success at local tournamensts, where your opponents will make more mistakes than those you face online and you will be rewarded by the hours of practice and meta game knowledge you got while playing mtgo leagues.
Matchup Specific Results
Deck----------# matches-----# wins-----Winrate
E-tron-------------3------------3---------100%
Grixis Shadow------8------------5---------62.5%
Affinity-----------7------------2---------28.6%
Burn---------------5------------4---------80.0%
UW Control---------5------------2---------40.0%
Dredge-------------2------------1---------50.0%
GW Humans----------3------------1---------33.3%
Druid CoCo---------4------------1---------25.0%
Living End---------3------------2---------66.7%
Ponza--------------2------------1---------50.0%
Abzan--------------4------------4---------100%
GX Tron------------4------------2---------50.0%
Sun & Moon---------1------------1---------100%
Ad Nauseam---------2------------1---------50.0%
Obzedat------------2------------2---------100%
Smallpox-----------2------------2---------100%
Lantern------------1------------1---------100%
UR Storm-----------1------------1---------100%
Saheeli Combo------1------------0-----------0%
Grixis Delver------1------------1---------100%
Titanshift---------3------------2---------66.7%
Merfolk------------1------------0-----------0%
Bant Eldrazi-------1------------0-----------0%
Conclusions
Based on the results from these matches, it's difficult to back spatial contortion in the sideboard as they were brought in for 3 specific matchups, and all three matchups were the worst of any through the weekend. The only other matchup that we even worse than 50% was UW Control, and at least one if not two of the losses to UW control were due to extreme flooding (as in 70% or more of the cards I drew/saw were lands). So I really don't make much of that data, I think we are favored around 55-60% in the matchup. Druid, affinity, and humans were very difficult to beat even post-board. They have significantly more cheap creatures than we do one-for-one removal, meaning once we run out of removal spells in our hand we can no longer answer their threats effectively at instant speed. We need some card to shore up these matchups, particularly affinity which is probably the worst matchup eldrazi tron has. I really can't see another card fitting the bill like o-stone, it's a silver bullet against affinity which might be a big enough reason to make room in the board. I have not had the time to playtest with them in the side yet, but with PPTQs coming up I want to bring the best sideboard. My current list (including o-stones) would have -2 relic, +1 collar, +1 wurmcoil in the main (burn, shadow, mirror meta), with a side like this:
If I were to exclude o-stones, I would go up to two ratchets and pithings for those spots. What would you guys bring to a PPTQ where the local meta is largely burn, e-tron, shadow, and affinity? I know that sicsmoo has playtested stones in the main and side, and I was particularly surprised to see them excluded in his PPTQ list (nice finish by the way). Sicsmoo, could you provide some insight into o-stones in the side, and which of the two sideboard configurations you'd go with for a PPTQ in my local meta, 2x ostone or 2x ratchet and 2x pithing. Any feedback on the card is appreciated as I'm not able to playtest it as much as I'd like.
Lastly, would you guys be interested in me posting a sideboard guide for around 36 matchups? It's something I've made up in preparation for PPTQ season and I can share what I've got here. Of course it's not some golden rule or perfect sideboarding, but I think it's always good to have a base or structure for how you want to sideboard in a matchup, especially if it's a fringe deck and you aren't confident or practiced enough.
Edit: One last thing, as I was watching mtgo vods from my matches for this post, I noticed ugin being my game winning play quite a bit and confirmed my bias that having access to him in the side is very relevant.
Hey Tituba, nice post. Regarding Oblivion Stone...in a nutshell it is very good in certain situations but generally speaking it is clunky in this deck, mainly because we want to be putting permanents on to the battlefield early, including post-board in matchups where Ostone is good. Affinity is the best example - the main reason to be playing Ostone, but we also want to be putting Pithing Needle, Ratchet Bomb, and Walking Ballista into play first if we want to survive until we can crack the Ostone. In many cases it can be OK to sacrifice the Needle in order to not die before blowing Stone, or popping a Ballista, but not always, and Ostone and Ratchet Bomb don't play very well together. Similar scenarios exist in matchups like Hatebears and CoCo decks.
The other difference is that when I was playing the Ostones, I had mostly or entirely cut the Mind Stones in favor of Warping Wail in the main, because Ostone and Mind Stone do not play well together either.
I overestimated how good it would be in the Hatebears matchup. Stony Silence plus Tectonic Edges tend to throw a wrench into activating it.
For the PPTQ I wanted to err on the side of consistency given it would be a 5-9 round tournament, so I switched back to a more traditional build with the 3 Mind Stones. I was willing to take my chances with Affinity.
Lastly the Humans deck, which was my other main motivation for using Ostones, has dropped off quite a bit. I just took a look and I've only faced it 3 times in the last 38 leagues, which is basically nothing. Similar statistics for Elves.
If you know you're gonna be playing against a lot of Affinity, I think there is room for Ostone in the deck, but it doesn't come without sacrifices.
Personally, I think you can cut 1 of the Surgicals. Dredge is basically non-existent right now as upwards of 20% of the field is maindecking Relic of Progenitus (Us, Tron, Titan Shift). There were 0 people playing it at my PPTQ. Hard to make more specific suggestions without knowing a bit more about the meta, but Wurmcoil and Collar are of course good in the matchups you listed. It would have to be quite a lot of Shadow and the mirror for me to consider maindecking Wurmcoil though. I could see that rotting in hand a lot. And FWIW, I don't think it's actually that great against Shadow post-board, because we want to be assembling Eldrazi Temples and Cavern of Souls naming Eldrazi, so we have less emphasis on getting Tron, harder to cast Wurmcoil, and they have a 1 mana counterspell for it.
Mindstone/Warping Wail – I cut both mind stones for 2 warping wails. This felt like the biggest and best change in the deck. Warping wails never got taken out and were almost always relevant, this is something I feel I will stick with, I don’t miss the cantrip due to playing 2 x relic main and I never missed the ramp as warping wail got their in a pinch. The more I think about this the more I think it’s the way forward, it is just so good against a wide range of tier 1 decks and decks we have issues with, also bloodmoon seems to be much less of an issue as it once was.
Congrats on the Team finish and also to sicsmoo for 2nd in the qualifier.
Do you ever find yourself conflicted about maintaining tempo vs leaving mana open to cast Wail? Seems like on every turn I want to be tapping out, or I feel like I'm falling behind.
Turn 1: Map or Relic
Turn 2: Chalice, sac Map, Mind Stone, or Reshaper
etc
Against a black deck, do you just tap out and accept the early discard spell? I bring in Wail vs decks like Scapeshift, and in that case you really don't need to keep mana open until turn 4 or later.
Thanks for the reply. I can see o-stone being very clunky, and I agree that going into an event like a PPTQ you want a consistent and smoothe running 75. I suppose you're right that it's better to hope for lucky draws against affinity than fill two slots with a silver bullet that isn't always a home run, even in the matchup it's specifically for. Also magicmurph mentions he felt 5 sweepers in the 75 was too much, and id have to agree with that. It seems like all is dust and ugin are the only board wipes we can count on, with them never hitting our own permanents.
Wurmcoil in the main basically replaces a relic, and the amount of burn and eldrazi tron at my local tournaments is insane. Sometimes half of the field of 12-14 players. I would never main wurmcoil on mtgo or at a gp (in the current meta), but locally I feel like game 1 wurmcoil is going to win more games than relic. It's also never disappointed against shadow, as I'm usually not dead by T5 or T6 so if I can name wurm with a cavern and resolve it I've bought myself a lot of turns. It's the same way in the mirror, landing a wurmcoil is insane. I've seen Grixis Shadow lists go down to 1-2 k-command in the 75, so I'm less resistant to playing collars against them than I was when they consistently ran 3 copies.
Thanks for the reply. I can see o-stone being very clunky, and I agree that going into an event like a PPTQ you want a consistent and smoothe running 75. I suppose you're right that it's better to hope for lucky draws against affinity than fill two slots with a silver bullet that isn't always a home run, even in the matchup it's specifically for. Also magicmurph mentions he felt 5 sweepers in the 75 was too much, and id have to agree with that. It seems like all is dust and ugin are the only board wipes we can count on, with them never hitting our own permanents.
Wurmcoil in the main basically replaces a relic, and the amount of burn and eldrazi tron at my local tournaments is insane. Sometimes half of the field of 12-14 players. I would never main wurmcoil on mtgo or at a gp (in the current meta), but locally I feel like game 1 wurmcoil is going to win more games than relic. It's also never disappointed against shadow, as I'm usually not dead by T5 or T6 so if I can name wurm with a cavern and resolve it I've bought myself a lot of turns. It's the same way in the mirror, landing a wurmcoil is insane. I've seen Grixis Shadow lists go down to 1-2 k-command in the 75, so I'm less resistant to playing collars against them than I was when they consistently ran 3 copies.
Do you think that main board Wurmcoil can also somehow solve the damage problem from Affinity? Our LGS seems the same with the metagame only + Affinity... I myself is testing Affinity to see their perspective... Explosive Draws are really insane...
I was thniking that if we lose to these types of draws, is it possible to just tweak the deck to be either gain life or mass effect control cards (Pithing Needle/ Ratchet Bomb/ (add more)? I was opting to put some more gain life via extra Collar & Batterskull, if It would buy time to bring it to Basilisk/ Endbringer/ Ulamog wonderland...
By the way, thanks for the League Data... This is a great help... I'm in pursuit of solving Swarm (CoCo/ Affinity) & Land Decks (Trons/ Valakut) via this deck... Hope to get some insights... TIA...
I don't think the wurmcoil is too effective against affinity. They can move counters around mid combat to prevent the lifrlink, they can move counters to a blinkmoth or inkmoth to go around it, etc. If they durdle a bit after opening turns, I'm sure it will help us win in that scenario. But the basilisk main, especially when attached to endbringer or ballista, will certainly destroy their board state. I'm actually planning on siding the wurmcoil out against affinity, favoring a matter reshaper for earlier board presence and a potential draw. Wurm coming down on T5 or T6 would be way too slow.
I think that ratchet is the best removal for affinity, not quite as potent as o-stone but we get more control over what is removed. Then you add in the fact that when you have a ratchet on the field they'll hold cards in their hand rather than play them into ratchet and lose tempo because of it. I don't think lifegain is the answer because it just takes one inkmoth with ravager counters or cranial attached swing in to get you to 10 infect. Honestly other than pithing needle, ghost quarter, and ratchet bomb, we are going to have a very tough time with affinity. Every deck has an abysmal matchup and this is ours.
I don't think the wurmcoil is too effective against affinity. They can move counters around mid combat to prevent the lifrlink, they can move counters to a blinkmoth or inkmoth to go around it, etc. If they durdle a bit after opening turns, I'm sure it will help us win in that scenario. But the basilisk main, especially when attached to endbringer or ballista, will certainly destroy their board state. I'm actually planning on siding the wurmcoil out against affinity, favoring a matter reshaper for earlier board presence and a potential draw. Wurm coming down on T5 or T6 would be way too slow.
I think that ratchet is the best removal for affinity, not quite as potent as o-stone but we get more control over what is removed. Then you add in the fact that when you have a ratchet on the field they'll hold cards in their hand rather than play them into ratchet and lose tempo because of it. I don't think lifegain is the answer because it just takes one inkmoth with ravager counters or cranial attached swing in to get you to 10 infect. Honestly other than pithing needle, ghost quarter, and ratchet bomb, we are going to have a very tough time with affinity. Every deck has an abysmal matchup and this is ours.
Can we therefore conclude that upticking the Ratchet Bomb & Pithing Needle Count to 3 each might be good enough to battle the Affinity?
It seems that all the problems pointed out were all activated abilities (Ravager, Manlands, Cranial), so Pithing Needle is highly important here. Also, Steel Overseer/ Ghirapur is affected by the Needle as well.
Ratchet Bomb for Tempo loss is really good. Expedition Map + Ghost Quarter are also extensions for not dying to Infect. It makes sense that gain life is not the answer due to infect.
I also use Pithing Needle against Devoted Druids, so that's a plus. Ratchet works very well against Merfolk. Well, there are not a lot of them, but I see that somehow they are becoming more effective against us, with Spreading Seas.
The downside may be associated with mirrors, where these cards might not be so useful, except for Ratchet against Hangarback Walker tokens.
I might go this route & try it. Thanks for the input...
As much as I want to see two needles against affinity, the number of matchups where I want to see a second needle is so small that I think 3 needles is way too much and 2 needles is taking up a bit too much sideboard. If you are running warping wails in place of mind stone in the main, thereby opening up two sideboard slots, thats about the only setup where I think 2 needles fit in the side.
Personally I've been on 2 Needles for a while. Of course good against Affinity but it's also really good against Hatebears for shutting off Vial in particular, or Ghost Quarter/Tec Edge. That's a matchup we need help in, and our chances are a lot better if they can't use Vial. Needle is good against Merfolk for similar reasons, against U/W Control and against Tron and Lantern as well, so I like having 2 right now.
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This is my list so far:
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
2x Wastes
1x Batterskull
4x Expedition Map
4x Mind Stone
2x Dismember
3x Spatial Contortion
3x Warping Wail
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
I've still got two slots. What would you run?
My meta is burn, BGx decks and some random decks now and then. Not too much combo thought.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
It seems that the TitanShift & Affinity are our toughest MatchUps, they might be solved by the replacement of Walking Ballista/ Basilisk Collar with Kozilek's Return and an addition of Crumble to Dust for Mirrors/ TitanShifts. Plus, Eldrazi Obligator might be useful for Mirrors as well as TitanShift, getting the Titan perhaps. These cards can all be casted by the Corrupted Crossroads.
TIA...
3 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Powerplant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Wastes
2 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Endbringer
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
4 Expedition Map
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Karn Liberated
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Warping Wail
I'm not sure Kozilek's Return is worth it with only Ulamog to trigger its graveyard ability. The G/R Tron people prefer Pyroclasm.
I personally like Ballista way too much to swap it out permanently anyway.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Yeah, I really don't think adding a color to this deck is a good idea. You're really stretching the manabase to do things that are only situationally better. And there's really no reason to use Simian Spirit Guide IMO. The deck is consistent and powerful as it is, and adding Guide just removes consistency in exchange for occasional explosiveness, which I don't think is worth it. I do get that it also works as fixing in that list, but still. Also Crumble to Dust isn't really that great against Titan Shift. Good, but not great. Eldrazi Obligator is an interesting one.
I do understand the desire to find ways to beat Titan Shift and Affinity as they're so bad for us, but if you're seeing them both tons, the solution may simply be to play a different deck. Personally I switched to GW Tron with 4 SB Leyline of Sanctity for the time being. We'll see how it goes.
There was a RG Tron/Etron hybrid list that placed at a Japanese GP maybe a couple months ago. Don't have the list on hand, but something like that might be good.
I think you have described why no one is really trying Abbey. It will take a lot of changing of the deck and watering down its efficiency just to run a card that gets a 9/7 flyer with some other perks. Might as well fine tune the deck to play a much BETTER card in Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as the big finisher. He fits into the deck without having to make changes and compromises. My inner "Timmy" longs for Ormendahl but I scratch that itch with Ulamog, others should consider that. Thanks for the post though.
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Initial Sideboard
2x ratchet
2x pithing
2x wail
2x relic
1x ugin
1x wurm
2x hangarback
1x collar
2x spatial
This configuration was heavily set up to contend with aggressive, go wide decks, mainly humans, druid coco, and affinity.
League 1
Affinity 2-1
Druid CoCo 1-2
Obzedat 2-1
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
Ad Nauseam 2-1
Record = 4-1
League 2
Affinity 0-2
UW Control 0-2
Eldrazi Tron 2-0
Smallpox 2-0
Affinity 1-2
Record = 2-3
League 3
Grixis Delver 2-1
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Lantern 2-1
UR Storm 2-0
Saheeli Combo 0-2
Record = 4-1
League 4
Obzedat 2-0
Titanshift 2-0
UW Control 1-2
Abzan 2-1
Druid CoCo 1-2
Record = 3-2
League 5
GW Humans 1-2
Grixis Shadow 2-1
Abzan 2-0
Merfolk 0-2
Enchantment Brew 2-0
Record = 3-2
Changes to Sideboard
2x surgical
1x spatial
1x pithing
2x ratchet
2x wail
2x relic
1x ugin
1x wurm
2x hang
1x collar
League 6
UW Control 0-2
Druid CoCo 2-1
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Bant Eldrazi 0-2
Ad Nauseam 1-2
Record = 2-3
League 7
Affinity 2-1
Grixis Shadow 0-2
GR Ponza 1-2
Burn 2-1
Goblins 1-2
Record = 2-3
League 8
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Kiki-Evo-Chord 2-1
Titanshift 1-2
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
Affinity 1-2
Record = 3-2
League 9
Burn 1-2
Burn 2-0
Affinity 0-2
GW Humans 2-0
Living End 0-2
Record = 2-3
League 10
Living End 2-0
GB Tron 0-2
Dredge 2-1
Burn 2-1
Titanshift 2-0
Record = 4-1
League 11
GW Tron 0-2
GW Tron(rematch) 2-1
Abzan 2-1
Grixis Shadow 0-2
Smallpox 2-0
Record = 3-2
League 12
UW Control 2-0
Sun & Moon 2-0
Druid CoCo 0-2
Living End 2-0
Blood/Nahiri Brew 1-2
Record = 3-2
League 13
GB Tron 2-0
GW Humans 0-2
Dredge 0-2
Abzan 2-1
GR Ponza 2-1
Record = 3-2
League 14
Grixis Shadow 2-0
Grixis Shadow(rematch) 0-2
Affinity 1-2
Burn 2-1
UW Control 2-1
Record = 3-2
Overall Record = 41 wins, 29 losses, winrate = 58.57%
I am quite satisfied with a near 60% overall winrate on mtgo leagues across a large sample size, the level of competition is higher than what you'd typically see at a local store for paper tournaments. Both in my piloting of the deck and in the strength of the deck in modern, sustaining a well above 50% winrate against high level competition on mtgo is a good indicator of potential success at local tournamensts, where your opponents will make more mistakes than those you face online and you will be rewarded by the hours of practice and meta game knowledge you got while playing mtgo leagues.
Matchup Specific Results
Deck----------# matches-----# wins-----Winrate
E-tron-------------3------------3---------100%
Grixis Shadow------8------------5---------62.5%
Affinity-----------7------------2---------28.6%
Burn---------------5------------4---------80.0%
UW Control---------5------------2---------40.0%
Dredge-------------2------------1---------50.0%
GW Humans----------3------------1---------33.3%
Druid CoCo---------4------------1---------25.0%
Living End---------3------------2---------66.7%
Ponza--------------2------------1---------50.0%
Abzan--------------4------------4---------100%
GX Tron------------4------------2---------50.0%
Sun & Moon---------1------------1---------100%
Ad Nauseam---------2------------1---------50.0%
Obzedat------------2------------2---------100%
Smallpox-----------2------------2---------100%
Lantern------------1------------1---------100%
UR Storm-----------1------------1---------100%
Saheeli Combo------1------------0-----------0%
Grixis Delver------1------------1---------100%
Titanshift---------3------------2---------66.7%
Merfolk------------1------------0-----------0%
Bant Eldrazi-------1------------0-----------0%
Conclusions
Based on the results from these matches, it's difficult to back spatial contortion in the sideboard as they were brought in for 3 specific matchups, and all three matchups were the worst of any through the weekend. The only other matchup that we even worse than 50% was UW Control, and at least one if not two of the losses to UW control were due to extreme flooding (as in 70% or more of the cards I drew/saw were lands). So I really don't make much of that data, I think we are favored around 55-60% in the matchup. Druid, affinity, and humans were very difficult to beat even post-board. They have significantly more cheap creatures than we do one-for-one removal, meaning once we run out of removal spells in our hand we can no longer answer their threats effectively at instant speed. We need some card to shore up these matchups, particularly affinity which is probably the worst matchup eldrazi tron has. I really can't see another card fitting the bill like o-stone, it's a silver bullet against affinity which might be a big enough reason to make room in the board. I have not had the time to playtest with them in the side yet, but with PPTQs coming up I want to bring the best sideboard. My current list (including o-stones) would have -2 relic, +1 collar, +1 wurmcoil in the main (burn, shadow, mirror meta), with a side like this:
1x cage
2x wail
2x surgical
3x relic
2x hangar
1x pithing
1x ratchet
2x ostone
1x ugin
If I were to exclude o-stones, I would go up to two ratchets and pithings for those spots. What would you guys bring to a PPTQ where the local meta is largely burn, e-tron, shadow, and affinity? I know that sicsmoo has playtested stones in the main and side, and I was particularly surprised to see them excluded in his PPTQ list (nice finish by the way). Sicsmoo, could you provide some insight into o-stones in the side, and which of the two sideboard configurations you'd go with for a PPTQ in my local meta, 2x ostone or 2x ratchet and 2x pithing. Any feedback on the card is appreciated as I'm not able to playtest it as much as I'd like.
Lastly, would you guys be interested in me posting a sideboard guide for around 36 matchups? It's something I've made up in preparation for PPTQ season and I can share what I've got here. Of course it's not some golden rule or perfect sideboarding, but I think it's always good to have a base or structure for how you want to sideboard in a matchup, especially if it's a fringe deck and you aren't confident or practiced enough.
Edit: One last thing, as I was watching mtgo vods from my matches for this post, I noticed ugin being my game winning play quite a bit and confirmed my bias that having access to him in the side is very relevant.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
The other difference is that when I was playing the Ostones, I had mostly or entirely cut the Mind Stones in favor of Warping Wail in the main, because Ostone and Mind Stone do not play well together either.
I overestimated how good it would be in the Hatebears matchup. Stony Silence plus Tectonic Edges tend to throw a wrench into activating it.
For the PPTQ I wanted to err on the side of consistency given it would be a 5-9 round tournament, so I switched back to a more traditional build with the 3 Mind Stones. I was willing to take my chances with Affinity.
Lastly the Humans deck, which was my other main motivation for using Ostones, has dropped off quite a bit. I just took a look and I've only faced it 3 times in the last 38 leagues, which is basically nothing. Similar statistics for Elves.
If you know you're gonna be playing against a lot of Affinity, I think there is room for Ostone in the deck, but it doesn't come without sacrifices.
Personally, I think you can cut 1 of the Surgicals. Dredge is basically non-existent right now as upwards of 20% of the field is maindecking Relic of Progenitus (Us, Tron, Titan Shift). There were 0 people playing it at my PPTQ. Hard to make more specific suggestions without knowing a bit more about the meta, but Wurmcoil and Collar are of course good in the matchups you listed. It would have to be quite a lot of Shadow and the mirror for me to consider maindecking Wurmcoil though. I could see that rotting in hand a lot. And FWIW, I don't think it's actually that great against Shadow post-board, because we want to be assembling Eldrazi Temples and Cavern of Souls naming Eldrazi, so we have less emphasis on getting Tron, harder to cast Wurmcoil, and they have a 1 mana counterspell for it.
Congrats on the Team finish and also to sicsmoo for 2nd in the qualifier.
Do you ever find yourself conflicted about maintaining tempo vs leaving mana open to cast Wail? Seems like on every turn I want to be tapping out, or I feel like I'm falling behind.
Turn 1: Map or Relic
Turn 2: Chalice, sac Map, Mind Stone, or Reshaper
etc
Against a black deck, do you just tap out and accept the early discard spell? I bring in Wail vs decks like Scapeshift, and in that case you really don't need to keep mana open until turn 4 or later.
Wurmcoil in the main basically replaces a relic, and the amount of burn and eldrazi tron at my local tournaments is insane. Sometimes half of the field of 12-14 players. I would never main wurmcoil on mtgo or at a gp (in the current meta), but locally I feel like game 1 wurmcoil is going to win more games than relic. It's also never disappointed against shadow, as I'm usually not dead by T5 or T6 so if I can name wurm with a cavern and resolve it I've bought myself a lot of turns. It's the same way in the mirror, landing a wurmcoil is insane. I've seen Grixis Shadow lists go down to 1-2 k-command in the 75, so I'm less resistant to playing collars against them than I was when they consistently ran 3 copies.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Do you think that main board Wurmcoil can also somehow solve the damage problem from Affinity? Our LGS seems the same with the metagame only + Affinity... I myself is testing Affinity to see their perspective... Explosive Draws are really insane...
I was thniking that if we lose to these types of draws, is it possible to just tweak the deck to be either gain life or mass effect control cards (Pithing Needle/ Ratchet Bomb/ (add more)? I was opting to put some more gain life via extra Collar & Batterskull, if It would buy time to bring it to Basilisk/ Endbringer/ Ulamog wonderland...
By the way, thanks for the League Data... This is a great help... I'm in pursuit of solving Swarm (CoCo/ Affinity) & Land Decks (Trons/ Valakut) via this deck... Hope to get some insights... TIA...
I think that ratchet is the best removal for affinity, not quite as potent as o-stone but we get more control over what is removed. Then you add in the fact that when you have a ratchet on the field they'll hold cards in their hand rather than play them into ratchet and lose tempo because of it. I don't think lifegain is the answer because it just takes one inkmoth with ravager counters or cranial attached swing in to get you to 10 infect. Honestly other than pithing needle, ghost quarter, and ratchet bomb, we are going to have a very tough time with affinity. Every deck has an abysmal matchup and this is ours.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Can we therefore conclude that upticking the Ratchet Bomb & Pithing Needle Count to 3 each might be good enough to battle the Affinity?
It seems that all the problems pointed out were all activated abilities (Ravager, Manlands, Cranial), so Pithing Needle is highly important here. Also, Steel Overseer/ Ghirapur is affected by the Needle as well.
Ratchet Bomb for Tempo loss is really good. Expedition Map + Ghost Quarter are also extensions for not dying to Infect. It makes sense that gain life is not the answer due to infect.
I also use Pithing Needle against Devoted Druids, so that's a plus. Ratchet works very well against Merfolk. Well, there are not a lot of them, but I see that somehow they are becoming more effective against us, with Spreading Seas.
The downside may be associated with mirrors, where these cards might not be so useful, except for Ratchet against Hangarback Walker tokens.
I might go this route & try it. Thanks for the input...
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR