Actually SRAM says cast, so setting it on zero is bad. If you test the match, 1 is actually the best number to cast it on because of Serum Visions and Retract.
Actually SRAM says cast, so setting it on zero is bad. If you test the match, 1 is actually the best number to cast it on because of Serum Visions and Retract.
If you set chalice on 0 they have nothing to Retract. Serum visions is fine, the problem is the draw 20 for U spell. What you would really want is Thorn of Amethyst, then you can play a chalice on 1 and sit back. I don't think it's a real deck though, too easy to hate out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
The fact that some people are experimenting/brewing with some green spells doesn't make it a part of the deck.
Ancient Stirrings is a key card in "G/w/r Tron" and "Bant Eldrazi" but not here and even splashing Green in this deck wouldn't be a good idea as without using Chromatic Star/Chromatic Sphere like "Tron" (or Noble Hierarch/BoP in "Bant Eldrazi") for color fixing you can't reliably plays Ancient Stirrings (or Sylvan Scrying) on time as there aren't enough land slots with 12x going to Urza lands and 4x to E.Temple.
SSG can be worth it if ran in conjunction with multiple Gemstone Caverns to speed out Chalice or anything else for that matter. I run it but it takes up creature and land slots. If a big name starts running them you will see it more. Until then it will be a fringe strategy probably.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Stupid question: Why Karn instead of Ugin? Ugin seems like a complete takeover of the board against most decks, though it's weakness is obviously Eldrazi and Lantern decks, whereas Karn can exile relevant individual colorless permanents. Is that the issue?
I prefer Ugin myself but turn 3 Karn is just faster than turn 4 Ugin. Unless you run SSG or Gemstone Caverns of course.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks to Ageless127 for this comprehensive Primer and thanks to WarMachinePrime for bringing this cool deck to my attention. I love to play a colorless deck that is still competitive!
A card that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Phyrexian Metamorph. It seems like a good way to double up on your heavy midgame hitters like Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher. Chaining multiples of those is really brutal against many matchups and Metamorph helps you draw "another copy" of those Eldrazi. Copying a Batterskull is also possible. What do you think about playing one or two Metamorphs maindeck?
A card that is probably less useful (or at least more matchup-dependent) than I would like it to be is Sundering Titan. Using it just feels like taking full advantage of being a colorless deck. And it can - powered out by Tron - totally wreck a couple of decks. Should I play one maindeck? Or is it just sideboard material?
Metamorph sounds interesting. Problem is its a nonbo with All is Dust since it is blue. It could be interesting as another copy of Ulamog as well. There are times when exiling two cards just may not be enough against some decks and popping a 3 mana Ulamog copy to exile 2 more does sound tempting. I will keep it in mind but again its a nonbo with All is Dust. Also a lot of artifact hate out there in games 2 and 3. Thanks for sharing.
@redtwister
Running 4 SSG I've had to cut 2 Matter Reshaper and 2 removal (of choice) or 2 Batterskull. Running 3 Gemstone Caverns I've replaced the other 2 Reshapers with Eternal Witness, dropped a combination of Sea-Gate Wreckage, Ghost Quarter and a Wastes/Cavern of Souls/Urborg. I have a lot of fast decks in my meta. Burn, 8-whack, Elves, Bogles, Dredge and some others. If the overall meta slows a bit, I may ditch the 7 card package and add back the Reshapers and lands mentioned earlier. Turn one TKS is a blast for sure, but it doesn't happen often enough. Turn one Chalice set on one on the play or draw sure feels good though.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Good points on Metamorph above. I missed them on first inspection. Colorless is good, but would need a ETB effect instead of a cast effect then as shared above. And as stated drawing it on an empty board would feel bad. I suppose if you had Chalice set to 1 and already had a Map on board, you could copy the map for 3P to skirt Chalice. Something to keep in mind I suppose. Not sure of its efficiency though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Not sure if I want Mind Stone going forward. I only drew it like 2 times during all 6 rounds. Could play Spellskite in the sideboard instead and some Walking Ballistas main. Might try that next time.
First, thanks for the report.
Yep the Mind Stones aren't worth it. Try Walking Ballista or Spellskite in its place. Mind Stones are just too slow and clunky imo. You could even stick Filigree Familiar in that slot in a pinch vs. fast decks for some quick life and card draw. Ballista can help vs. Infect as well if timed right, could have given you a better chance in that matchup, who knows maybe a 6-0!!!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Ugin isn't actually that bad against Infect as it kills every non-Inkmoth threat they have.
I agree. Problem is it might be too late by turn 4 and we are dead. Turn 3 Karn could give us a fighting chance.
Slightly off topic but it makes me wonder if we will ever see another colorless planeswalker at 4,5 or 6 cmc. Would be cool seeing one in the next block or two but I won't hold my breath.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I am kind of bored with dredge (nothing to do with the bannings) and am looking to branch into another deck. I've seen some discussion about walking ballista on this thread and then saw this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/562899#paper. This guy mained 4 ballistas and I'm already high on this card so what do you all think of this list? What do you guys think of fitting in 3-4 chalices into the main of this list in lieu of the hangarbacks and something else?
Played Regionals in Baltimore. Went 5-0, Then 0-4. Allow me to explain.
The deck is great, I made huge play mistakes. I never played it before Saturday.
Round 1 vs. Cheerios 2-0 Eldrazi Temple x2 + TKS is awesome. Chalice on 0 is amazing.
Round 2 vs. Burn 2-1
Aside from a genuine mistake from lack of experience (I literally thought Warping Wail was tribal), I managed this fine, except I should have won game 2. I had 4 life, Endbringer against Eidolon. I played Matter Reshaper first, instead of attacking, forcing the block, and then casting it. I lose to Destructive Revelry as a result, on exactsies. Still won game 3.
Round 3 vs. Junk 2-0
Not even close. I hit everything, he hits, nothing.
Round 4 vs. Bant Spirits 2-0
He made bad keeps and that punished him way more than me.
Round 5 vs. UWR 2-1
So turn 3 Geist of Saint Traft is rough. Have to resolve TKS and something else. TKS + TKS is awesome. I mis-sideboard because I don't bring in Relic of progenitus, but Needle is terrible when they all side out Nahiri for GoST. Still won.
Round 6 vs. Eldrazi and Taxes 1-2
Well, mulligan to 4 is bad. Game 2, Eldrazi beats. Game 3, he needs Flickerwisp, 4 mana for Restoration Angel to blink Flickerwisp, to FW Pithing Needle on Vial, into Flickerwisp. I have crap, he has it. Not sure how I beat that.
Round 7 vs. Affinity 0-2
Game 1 he has the nut, allowing 10 poison in the air on turn 4. nothing I could do. One more turn and I probably win because I had turn 3 Tron + TKS and Oblivion Stone. Needed one more turn to activate and he has nothing. Game 2, i have Ratchet Bomb on 2 and a Ghost Quarter and a Dismember and Chalice on 0 from the first turn. He has 2x Signal Pest, several other artifacts and a live Arcbound Ravager. All I have to do is allow him to swing and force him to either do nothing or play another value 2-drop. Instead, I prematurely use GG, Dismember, and RB and lose to his two drops. Terrible and first sign that not eating since 8:30am is taking its toll.
Round 8 vs. Lantern Control 0-2
Game 1 has has the nut. Whatever. Game 2, I have Reality Smasher resolved and doing damage and Ratchet Bomb on 3. I prematurely ejactulate RB and lose to Ensnaring Bridge, which he could not cast unless i cracked RB (which I did to destroy Crucible of Worlds, for no good reason other than panic.)
Round 9 vs. UWR Control 1-2
First two games played tight. Note: Relic is really good versus control, play it. We both play tight, I make one mistake. Game 3, I have Oblivion Stone and Chalice of the Void on 1. He has GoST on turn 3 AGAIN. I am at 12, can crack O-Stone and destroy Chalice or save Chalice, bet that Chalice on 1 is great, and crack it next turn. I save Chalice and die to Snapcaster + Helix. I should have killed Snapcaster and GoST and saved 8 damage. At that point, I have no blood sugar left, so...
Lessons: 1. Know your sideboards, 2. Don't panic, 3. Eat in long tournaments.
Still, I went 5-0 with a deck I never played before. 3 of my 4 losses were my fault from misplays.
Played this deck for the first time at Regionals to a disappointing 2-2-1 drop.
Won first round against Grixis Delver. Lost game 1 due to flipped Delvers turns 1 and 2. Won next 2 games quite easily.
Lost second round against UW Spirits. Drew kinda poorly and got whittled down by Moorland Haunt tokens. Found a Ghost Quarter but he found a replacement Haunt.
Drew third round against Grixis Control. Annoying opponent who wouldn't scoop when I was ahead on turns.
Won fourth round against Burn. Chalices on 1 and 2 pretty much locked him out of the game.
Lost fifth round against Affinity. Seems miserable.
It's interesting that Eldrazi Tron is putting up some results on MTGO and yet had exactly zero copies in all of the SCG regionals - I know you guys love the deck regardless - but what does this mean for Eldrazi Tron in a paper meta?
If you set chalice on 0 they have nothing to Retract. Serum visions is fine, the problem is the draw 20 for U spell. What you would really want is Thorn of Amethyst, then you can play a chalice on 1 and sit back. I don't think it's a real deck though, too easy to hate out.
So it is not "uncommon" but virtually non-existent as evidenced here - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-eldrazi-tron-26966
The fact that some people are experimenting/brewing with some green spells doesn't make it a part of the deck.
Ancient Stirrings is a key card in "G/w/r Tron" and "Bant Eldrazi" but not here and even splashing Green in this deck wouldn't be a good idea as without using Chromatic Star/Chromatic Sphere like "Tron" (or Noble Hierarch/BoP in "Bant Eldrazi") for color fixing you can't reliably plays Ancient Stirrings (or Sylvan Scrying) on time as there aren't enough land slots with 12x going to Urza lands and 4x to E.Temple.
Was this more constructive ?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I would also ask you to put the sideboarding discussions in the primer page:
http://manadeprived.com/eldrazi-tron-sideboarding-guide-part-1/
http://manadeprived.com/eldrazi-tron-sideboarding-guide-part-2/
Very helpful.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Turn 3 Karn
I prefer Ugin myself but turn 3 Karn is just faster than turn 4 Ugin. Unless you run SSG or Gemstone Caverns of course.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
A card that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Phyrexian Metamorph. It seems like a good way to double up on your heavy midgame hitters like Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher. Chaining multiples of those is really brutal against many matchups and Metamorph helps you draw "another copy" of those Eldrazi. Copying a Batterskull is also possible. What do you think about playing one or two Metamorphs maindeck?
A card that is probably less useful (or at least more matchup-dependent) than I would like it to be is Sundering Titan. Using it just feels like taking full advantage of being a colorless deck. And it can - powered out by Tron - totally wreck a couple of decks. Should I play one maindeck? Or is it just sideboard material?
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Metamorph sounds interesting. Problem is its a nonbo with All is Dust since it is blue. It could be interesting as another copy of Ulamog as well. There are times when exiling two cards just may not be enough against some decks and popping a 3 mana Ulamog copy to exile 2 more does sound tempting. I will keep it in mind but again its a nonbo with All is Dust. Also a lot of artifact hate out there in games 2 and 3. Thanks for sharing.
@redtwister
Running 4 SSG I've had to cut 2 Matter Reshaper and 2 removal (of choice) or 2 Batterskull. Running 3 Gemstone Caverns I've replaced the other 2 Reshapers with Eternal Witness, dropped a combination of Sea-Gate Wreckage, Ghost Quarter and a Wastes/Cavern of Souls/Urborg. I have a lot of fast decks in my meta. Burn, 8-whack, Elves, Bogles, Dredge and some others. If the overall meta slows a bit, I may ditch the 7 card package and add back the Reshapers and lands mentioned earlier. Turn one TKS is a blast for sure, but it doesn't happen often enough. Turn one Chalice set on one on the play or draw sure feels good though.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Ugin isn't actually that bad against Infect as it kills every non-Inkmoth threat they have.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
First, thanks for the report.
Yep the Mind Stones aren't worth it. Try Walking Ballista or Spellskite in its place. Mind Stones are just too slow and clunky imo. You could even stick Filigree Familiar in that slot in a pinch vs. fast decks for some quick life and card draw. Ballista can help vs. Infect as well if timed right, could have given you a better chance in that matchup, who knows maybe a 6-0!!!
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I agree. Problem is it might be too late by turn 4 and we are dead. Turn 3 Karn could give us a fighting chance.
Slightly off topic but it makes me wonder if we will ever see another colorless planeswalker at 4,5 or 6 cmc. Would be cool seeing one in the next block or two but I won't hold my breath.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The deck is great, I made huge play mistakes. I never played it before Saturday.
Round 1 vs. Cheerios 2-0
Eldrazi Temple x2 + TKS is awesome. Chalice on 0 is amazing.
Round 2 vs. Burn 2-1
Aside from a genuine mistake from lack of experience (I literally thought Warping Wail was tribal), I managed this fine, except I should have won game 2. I had 4 life, Endbringer against Eidolon. I played Matter Reshaper first, instead of attacking, forcing the block, and then casting it. I lose to Destructive Revelry as a result, on exactsies. Still won game 3.
Round 3 vs. Junk 2-0
Not even close. I hit everything, he hits, nothing.
Round 4 vs. Bant Spirits 2-0
He made bad keeps and that punished him way more than me.
Round 5 vs. UWR 2-1
So turn 3 Geist of Saint Traft is rough. Have to resolve TKS and something else. TKS + TKS is awesome. I mis-sideboard because I don't bring in Relic of progenitus, but Needle is terrible when they all side out Nahiri for GoST. Still won.
Round 6 vs. Eldrazi and Taxes 1-2
Well, mulligan to 4 is bad. Game 2, Eldrazi beats. Game 3, he needs Flickerwisp, 4 mana for Restoration Angel to blink Flickerwisp, to FW Pithing Needle on Vial, into Flickerwisp. I have crap, he has it. Not sure how I beat that.
Round 7 vs. Affinity 0-2
Game 1 he has the nut, allowing 10 poison in the air on turn 4. nothing I could do. One more turn and I probably win because I had turn 3 Tron + TKS and Oblivion Stone. Needed one more turn to activate and he has nothing. Game 2, i have Ratchet Bomb on 2 and a Ghost Quarter and a Dismember and Chalice on 0 from the first turn. He has 2x Signal Pest, several other artifacts and a live Arcbound Ravager. All I have to do is allow him to swing and force him to either do nothing or play another value 2-drop. Instead, I prematurely use GG, Dismember, and RB and lose to his two drops. Terrible and first sign that not eating since 8:30am is taking its toll.
Round 8 vs. Lantern Control 0-2
Game 1 has has the nut. Whatever. Game 2, I have Reality Smasher resolved and doing damage and Ratchet Bomb on 3. I prematurely ejactulate RB and lose to Ensnaring Bridge, which he could not cast unless i cracked RB (which I did to destroy Crucible of Worlds, for no good reason other than panic.)
Round 9 vs. UWR Control 1-2
First two games played tight. Note: Relic is really good versus control, play it. We both play tight, I make one mistake. Game 3, I have Oblivion Stone and Chalice of the Void on 1. He has GoST on turn 3 AGAIN. I am at 12, can crack O-Stone and destroy Chalice or save Chalice, bet that Chalice on 1 is great, and crack it next turn. I save Chalice and die to Snapcaster + Helix. I should have killed Snapcaster and GoST and saved 8 damage. At that point, I have no blood sugar left, so...
Lessons: 1. Know your sideboards, 2. Don't panic, 3. Eat in long tournaments.
Still, I went 5-0 with a deck I never played before. 3 of my 4 losses were my fault from misplays.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Won first round against Grixis Delver. Lost game 1 due to flipped Delvers turns 1 and 2. Won next 2 games quite easily.
Lost second round against UW Spirits. Drew kinda poorly and got whittled down by Moorland Haunt tokens. Found a Ghost Quarter but he found a replacement Haunt.
Drew third round against Grixis Control. Annoying opponent who wouldn't scoop when I was ahead on turns.
Won fourth round against Burn. Chalices on 1 and 2 pretty much locked him out of the game.
Lost fifth round against Affinity. Seems miserable.
Rarely got Tron online all day.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver