I get a bit perturbed when someone says, "Boggles." I pronounce it, "Bo guls."
I would suggest that we go up to 3 Stony Silence since I feel that Tron will be strong in the new meta. I really hope Fatal Push shapes the meta because that card is nothing but good news for Bogles.
Very true. Against Tron I think I prefer Suppression Field.
I get a bit perturbed when someone says, "Boggles." I pronounce it, "Bo guls."
I would suggest that we go up to 3 Stony Silence since I feel that Tron will be strong in the new meta. I really hope Fatal Push shapes the meta because that card is nothing but good news for Bogles.
I get a bit perturbed when someone says, "Boggles." I pronounce it, "Bo guls."
I would suggest that we go up to 3 Stony Silence since I feel that Tron will be strong in the new meta. I really hope Fatal Push shapes the meta because that card is nothing but good news for Bogles.
Would you say that it boggles your mind?....
No, I just get somewhat OCD about people mispronouncing Magic card names (when in reality, I'm probably mispronouncing a bunch of stuff and just don't know about I).
(I mean no offense to somebody that actually has OCD.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Guy won at FNM in a small 12 person tournament last night. He ran Bogles and splashed Blue. He ran Innvocation of Saint Traft and Invisible Stalker with that Blue enchantment that lets you scry each time you hit. Seemed to work pretty well.
I saw someone play boggle with Lunarch Mantle as a 1 of... Did somebody try it?
I've tried it a few times. I liked it a lot. It's def no more than a two of. There's obvious overlap between Lunarch Mantle, Spirit Mantle, and Gryff's Boon. I feel like they are all vying for a similar spot/role. I like Lunarch's +2/+2 to get out of Anger range. It's also a nice draw against Chalice. All depends what you run into. I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong between the three.
Guy won at FNM in a small 12 person tournament last night. He ran Bogles and splashed Blue. He ran Innvocation of Saint Traft and Invisible Stalker with that Blue enchantment that lets you scry each time you hit. Seemed to work pretty well.
It's enticing. I've just had trouble with speed and consistency every time I've tested it. I spend the first two turns dicking around with the stalker and by the time I have something set up, I either take 15 poison from Blinkmoth or 27 damage from cranial plating or am staring down Ugin. I'm not saying it can't work but I just prefer the consistency and speed of GW.
I saw someone play boggle with Lunarch Mantle as a 1 of... Did somebody try it?
I've tried it a few times. I liked it a lot. It's def no more than a two of. There's obvious overlap between Lunarch Mantle, Spirit Mantle, and Gryff's Boon. I feel like they are all vying for a similar spot/role. I like Lunarch's +2/+2 to get out of Anger range. It's also a nice draw against Chalice. All depends what you run into. I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong between the three.
Guy won at FNM in a small 12 person tournament last night. He ran Bogles and splashed Blue. He ran Innvocation of Saint Traft and Invisible Stalker with that Blue enchantment that lets you scry each time you hit. Seemed to work pretty well.
It's enticing. I've just had trouble with speed and consistency every time I've tested it. I spend the first two turns dicking around with the stalker and by the time I have something set up, I either take 15 poison from Blinkmoth or 27 damage from cranial plating or am staring down Ugin. I'm not saying it can't work but I just prefer the consistency and speed of GW.
Interesting. I'd run a 1-of lunarch mantle for *****s and gigs; seems like it'd had nice synergy with Rancor. I've also been playing around with a 1-of bear umbra out of the SB; that's the nice thing about Open the Armory, it allows for some interesting singletons.
In terms of my build it was pretty standard but major differences were that I played a build with 2 spirit link MB, an unflinching courage, 1 gryff's boon, and 1 open the armory. I thought I had another copy of gryff's boon so had to jam OTA in last minute regretfully. Sideboard was slightly unusual in that I had 3 gaddock teeg, 3 mana tithe and eschewed everything tron or affinity related apart from 2 suppression field and 3 nature's claim. Leylines made it 15.
Round 1 vs Burn 0-2
Game 1 Had to mull to 5 initially and in game none of my 7 lifelink cards came up.
Came 2 have to mull to 5 again to get a land and creature... My opening hand had a leyline but no land... Too often have I picked that, got no land then the leyline gets destructive revelry'd anyway. So after a mull to 5 - New hand is good but inevitable destructive revelry on my first daybreak coronet and a skull crack on my other attack after I top decked another skullcrack got me burned out on the next turn. On another day maybe I would've got the game 1 win but the margin of error you work with against burn is so tight that the high variance of bogles often can't compete. Had sided in mana tithes as I've found it to be good against the tight play of burn but I didn't draw any of the 3 copies...
0-1
Round 2 UW Control 2-0
Game 1 I play around Supreme verdict which is the only thing I was worried about...
Game 2 After opponent sides out targeted hate, Gaddock teeg prevents boardwipes and a crucial logic knot. I also play a suppression field to hurt his colonnades which are his only win con other than Ojutai, who doesn't come down early enough against a huge bogle.
1-1
Round 3 Probeless Suicide Bloo 2-0
Game 1 I outpace him... The deck is massively nerfed by having no probe so it's not a big surprise... The difference would have been a double striking trampling monastery swiftspear this game... But it's a turn too late.
Game 2 Again, he's one counter off flipping thing in the ice... So really missing the probe again. I've already got a huge lifelinking bogle so win at the right time.
2-1
Round 4 Bant Spirits 1-2
Game 1 I win with an early Gryff's boon... Tanking my bogle up with 1cmc enchantments makes spell queller inefficient so am able to do enough damage early to eventually kill with flying, trample and first strike.
Game 2 he sides in engineered explosives and blessed alliance. The blessed alliance gets my bogle... I didn't particularly have a good setup, just a couple of umbras on my bogle and gaddock teeg out and he had enough fliers so without which I would have been dead in two turns so it was time to scoop. Frustratingly he had 1 mana open and I had a mana tithe in hand... Ouch.
Game 3 I played around an early blessed alliance by not over extending and playing rancors as I had a backup bogle and some more enchantments in hand... Next turn EE came down and I just played around that... Knowing that EE would only destroy the 1cmc auras and not the bogle due to totem auras... Opponent didn't know this... I then suit up my bogle again and play gaddock teeg... Gaddock teeg then gets pathed.. Bogle isn't big or flying enough to prevent the cumulative attacks from flyers after an ok coco during which time I only draw land. Sad times!
2-2
So overall... Quite a spicy sideboard but I was fully expecting the decks played so it was worth tuning my SB specifically for it. Mana tithes in SB were for burn but they didn't turn up... Gaddock teeg is fantastic when he comes down hence having 3 there... Plenty to think about... I'm thinking about trying some ghostly prisons in the SB... Maybe just 2 as our Local meta includes Zoo and Merfolk also. I can't wait for another big modern event to play with a more regular sideboard though and where I know people aren't already expecting bogles! Lol
Solid report; thanks for sharing! I feel your pain on the Burn loss; we have a great matchup on paper, so it's always a bummer when variance bites you in the ass; Deflecting Palm haunts my dreams.
What are your thoughts on OTA? Considering you didn't plan to run it, I assume you're not a fan, but I'm always interested in how it works out (or doesn't) for other Bogle players. I've played around with a varying number of copies and I've found x1 main board to be ideal in my meta. I mostly like the fact that it affords us some flexibility when side-boarding and makes it feasible to run singletons of auras which we'd normally avoid having multiples of. However, it can make for clunky opening hands and the 2cmc doesn't help its cause either. Typically, it earns its spot whenever my opponent is running Chalice on 1 and I'm desperately searching for a Mantle. In regards to Ghostly Prison, I'd like to hear how it works out for you should you decide to include it in the 75. I used to run 1 main/1 in the side along with MB Suppression Field pre-Twin ban and it worked wonders in my particular meta; like you mentioned, not many folks plan for Bogles and those who do don't expect to see a Game 1 Ghostly Prison!
I used to play with two copies of OTA. Then cut it to 1, then 0. I find it too slow and conditional. Terrible first hander. I know it dodges Chalice but then again the aura you will search for might not. I run a list with no spells with cmc bigger than 2. I don't miss OTA or Unflinching Courage. The only spell with cmc >2 is Leyline but those are not meant to be played, just sneaked on the table turn 0
I used to play with two copies of OTA. Then cut it to 1, then 0. I find it too slow and conditional. Terrible first hander. I know it dodges Chalice but then again the aura you will search for might not. I run a list with no spells with cmc bigger than 2. I don't miss OTA or Unflinching Courage. The only spell with cmc >2 is Leyline but those are not meant to be played, just sneaked on the table turn 0
I hear ya loud and clear. I'd love to go back to my old list haha. Unfortunately, I'm basically known as "Bogles" guy at my LGS so the Chalices are a plenty. I've adjusted by adding two MB ledgewalkers, Seal of Primordium, extra spirit mantles, bear umbra singleton, and a few other random 2cmc auras & artifact removal. OTA has been helpful in this regard since it allows me to get an aura that will stick, but it mostly performs subpar against non-chalice matchups. Lately I've been playing modern Cheeri0s at FNM, so I'm hoping that will lower everyone's guard for the next time I come ready to give a Bogle beatdown lol.
I'm not sure gambit is worth it since a common tactic is to have a few other hexproofs out to sac to a Lily or blessed alliance (in addition to arbor), but that Phyresis is spicy might be worth looking at...
I'm sure some folks have brewed with B, but I don't think you'll find much empirical data. I actually tinkered around with Phyresis and glistener elf out of the SB a couple years ago. My train of thought was that once our opponent knows what we're on, they side out their creature removal and we can sneak in a dirty infect win game 2. While it was a blast to play, it made for some pretty awful opening hands and occupied precious SB slots. However, I never really played around with it main deck, so I'm sure a more skilled brewer could whip up something that's more efficient. Due to where we're positioned in the meta, I strongly encourage fellow Bogle-lovers to experiment with new brews. I'd love to hear what you're able to come up with!
In the past people considering a black splash have been mostly drawn to Orzhov Charm as a versatile removal/creature. Phyresis doesn't seem useful at all in this deck and I don't think it would be played even if it was a green card. When you play it you've probably already dealt a couple of non-infect damage and combined with fetches/shocks you're only saving a couple of damage at best. It also does nothing at all to make your creature more resilient and very little to improve it in combat. Predator's Gambit isn't completely uninteresting but I don't see how it could replace Ethereal Armor, Rancor or even the Umbras whose effects are surprisingly relevant. Possibly it could be better than Gryff's Boon, but the conditional intimidate is likely quite a bit worse than flying. Even if you only have one creature in play, it can still be blocked by Tarmogoyf/Kitchen Finks/Primeval Titan/Birds of Paradise/etc and in the case of Slippery Bogle even things like Snapcaster Mage. Then we also have the decks running artifact creatures like Affinity/Tron/Infect that cares even less about this particular sort of evasion. Combined with all the mana troubles an additional color brings this doesn't seem anyway near worth it.
As for the sideboard infect transformation, it fails because people will still always keep in cards like Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command and Abrupt Decay. In many cases even Path to Exile isn't sideboarded out as an unanswered Spiritdancer can be devastating, and often there's not enough things to bring in to replace it.
Not sure the formatting is right, but it's pretty typical other than the Silhana/Spiritwalker 2/2 split. I always have a hard time choosing between those but maybe the split is right. Spiritwalker is just so powerful though. The main craziness appears in that new sideboard tech of 4 Glistener Elf. Not sure what matchup that shores up though, but it would seem to give you a pretty damn fast kill. Anyway, I'm wondering if a list like this would be good for SCG Indy this weekend, as I think the deck would be in a decent spot right now in this meta, or if the build should be altered somewhat to adjust for the new Death's Shadow meta that is sure to be upon us.
Not sure the formatting is right, but it's pretty typical other than the Silhana/Spiritwalker 2/2 split. I always have a hard time choosing between those but maybe the split is right. Spiritwalker is just so powerful though. The main craziness appears in that new sideboard tech of 4 Glistener Elf. Not sure what matchup that shores up though, but it would seem to give you a pretty damn fast kill. Anyway, I'm wondering if a list like this would be good for SCG Indy this weekend, as I think the deck would be in a decent spot right now in this meta, or if the build should be altered somewhat to adjust for the new Death's Shadow meta that is sure to be upon us.
That's awesome; I've never seen another list try to run G.Elf out of the SB. Anyway, the Ledgewalker/Spiritdancer split isn't out of the ordinary; most pilots I've talked to began to include ledgewalker when Chalice started seeing more and more play. The same goes for Seal of Primordium, Krosan Grip, etc.
That's awesome; I've never seen another list try to run G.Elf out of the SB. Anyway, the Ledgewalker/Spiritdancer split isn't out of the ordinary; most pilots I've talked to began to include ledgewalker when Chalice started seeing more and more play. The same goes for Seal of Primordium, Krosan Grip, etc.
Here are my thoughts as a non elite boggler who grinds a fair bit of modern and is thinking about running the Glistener Elf package out of the board:
1. Unopposed/with evasion, running an infect creature makes our clock half of what it previously was.
2. This deck provides many various curves that will give us 10 infect by turn 3. A turn 2 kill with infect in bogles seems impossible, the best we can do is hang onto an opener of 2 leyline, glistener elf, 2 mana, 2 etheral armor and swing for 9 infect turn 2.
3. We are speeding up at the cost of losing our hexproof.
4. The decks I notice trending in the meta currently: deaths shadow jund, tron, scapeshift.
5. The decks we have a problem interacting with include: Bant Company Combo decks, lantern control, tron.
So all that said, it seems to me that the basic pattern is when we play these hard to interact with decks, if we need to race before they go off glistener elf is a good choice. Also if our opponent is boarding out what appears to be targeted removal, glistener elf is a good choice. Specifically I want to prey on Bant Combo after they board out paths and scapeshift after they board out bolts. Maybe the same theory applies to grixis depending on how much removal they board out. Remember, if a persist creature dies to infect, they don't come back.
Also, against tron, especially on the play, a glistener elf should be able to race. Infect gives us a chance to beat ensnaring bridge if the lantern player doesn't have it and can't find it.
In a perfect world, a tilted opponent boards removal back in and on the draw game 3 we can side out glistener elves to turn the removal back off.
Finally, the cutest thing will be to see how many players don't realize it is not a gladecover scout... I think the art for glistener is fairly iconic but you never know.
The main gist is that right now Modern is a little sturdier and less explosive, so you probably want Silhana Ledgewalker over Kor Spiritwalker. I think if you go with 4 Ledgewalker, it has an implication on sideboard Glistener Elfs as well. On the one hand, you may not need them to race because you might dodge non-interactive combo altogether. But on the other hand, in game 1 you have ZERO creatures that can be Path'd, Bolted, or Fatally Pushed, so opponents may be more likely to side those out, making the Infectious Elf a good option. I'm still on the fence.
I'm also on the fence as to whether this deck will be a good pick for SCG Indy. Thoughts? Cards that make me nervous are Liliana of the Veil, Blessed Alliance, Blood Moon, and Engineered Explosives. Leyline answers Liliana, but I don't think we would bring it in against a deck that ran Blessed Alliance. Against Blood Moon we're stuck with Seal of Primordium, or we can try the plan I saw once of running 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Natural State. Hierarchs are a decent hedge against sacrifice cards and Blood Moon, actually. Explosives will pretty much wreck our day I think, just have to hold stuff back and play smart.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
The main gist is that right now Modern is a little sturdier and less explosive, so you probably want Silhana Ledgewalker over Kor Spiritwalker. I think if you go with 4 Ledgewalker, it has an implication on sideboard Glistener Elfs as well. On the one hand, you may not need them to race because you might dodge non-interactive combo altogether. But on the other hand, in game 1 you have ZERO creatures that can be Path'd, Bolted, or Fatally Pushed, so opponents may be more likely to side those out, making the Infectious Elf a good option. I'm still on the fence.
Are decks keeping in targeted removal just to deal with a 2-4 of? Maybe bad players would which kinda backdoors them into having good game against glistener elf.
I'm also on the fence as to whether this deck will be a good pick for SCG Indy. Thoughts? Cards that make me nervous are Liliana of the Veil, Blessed Alliance, Blood Moon, and Engineered Explosives. Leyline answers Liliana, but I don't think we would bring it in against a deck that ran Blessed Alliance. Against Blood Moon we're stuck with Seal of Primordium, or we can try the plan I saw once of running 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Natural State. Hierarchs are a decent hedge against sacrifice cards and Blood Moon, actually. Explosives will pretty much wreck our day I think, just have to hold stuff back and play smart.
Re: Seal of primordium - I have come full circle on this card. I had it in my board early, messed around with natural state, nature's claim, disenchant and am back on seal. It is an important card because you can play it pro-actively. Instead of having to hold up mana, at all times, to deal with chalice of the void or engineered explosives, you just stick it turn 2 in matches it matters, and then carry on with your life. It gets in under blood moon while allowing you to fetch temples or play razorverge thickets. Last night against bant eldrazi, I boarded in 3 to deal with: spellskite, EE, chalice - the game stalled unexpectedly when he played a turn 4 worship. He also had out a chalice on 1. Our opponents ALWAYS chalice on 1, and seal of primordium plays around that, which is incidentally, the same reason I believe people were testing disenchant. I had a spiritdancer out, and was able to cast 1 drop enchant 1 after another to dig up the seal and then swing for the win through his 10ish creatures due to spirit mantle, which incidentally, you can also cast around chalice on 1. Finally, having it sit on the field makes etheral armor better just like Leyline / suppression field / rest in peace packages.
As for the meta, I think Death Shadow is enemy number 1 in the meta this weekend after watching the video on the article you shared - and thanks for that - discard is a house against us - losing our 1 boggle turn 1 on the draw ends games. I think the meta will have a reasonable amount of these bad(IMO) matchups: Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Jund. Maybe some Abzan liliana stuff too. I think there is an uptick in scapeshift which is a good matchup for us. In general, boggles felt right the last month or so to me but now might not be a great time for the deck. It is my pet deck however so I will keep playing it - and besides, you might just play 9 rogue brews.
I think sideboarding is the real question...
My current board is:
2 Dismember
2 feed the clan
4 leyline of sanctity
3 stony silence
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe.
I think I plan to update it to:
4 leyline of sanctity
4 seal of primordium
2 mana tithe
2 stony silence
2 dismember
1 open the armory.
To include Glistener Elf package:
4 leyline of sanctity
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe
1 stony silence
1 dismember
4 glistener elf
1 open the armory
And in the main right now I think we want to be running 4 path's, only 2 kor spiritdancer and at least 2 Spirit Mantle because it has been amazing for me the last few weeks at modern. I have the open the armory in the board in part to act as a third spirit mantle.
The main gist is that right now Modern is a little sturdier and less explosive, so you probably want Silhana Ledgewalker over Kor Spiritwalker. I think if you go with 4 Ledgewalker, it has an implication on sideboard Glistener Elfs as well. On the one hand, you may not need them to race because you might dodge non-interactive combo altogether. But on the other hand, in game 1 you have ZERO creatures that can be Path'd, Bolted, or Fatally Pushed, so opponents may be more likely to side those out, making the Infectious Elf a good option. I'm still on the fence.
Are decks keeping in targeted removal just to deal with a 2-4 of? Maybe bad players would which kinda backdoors them into having good game against glistener elf.
I'm also on the fence as to whether this deck will be a good pick for SCG Indy. Thoughts? Cards that make me nervous are Liliana of the Veil, Blessed Alliance, Blood Moon, and Engineered Explosives. Leyline answers Liliana, but I don't think we would bring it in against a deck that ran Blessed Alliance. Against Blood Moon we're stuck with Seal of Primordium, or we can try the plan I saw once of running 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Natural State. Hierarchs are a decent hedge against sacrifice cards and Blood Moon, actually. Explosives will pretty much wreck our day I think, just have to hold stuff back and play smart.
Re: Seal of primordium - I have come full circle on this card. I had it in my board early, messed around with natural state, nature's claim, disenchant and am back on seal. It is an important card because you can play it pro-actively. Instead of having to hold up mana, at all times, to deal with chalice of the void or engineered explosives, you just stick it turn 2 in matches it matters, and then carry on with your life. It gets in under blood moon while allowing you to fetch temples or play razorverge thickets. Last night against bant eldrazi, I boarded in 3 to deal with: spellskite, EE, chalice - the game stalled unexpectedly when he played a turn 4 worship. He also had out a chalice on 1. Our opponents ALWAYS chalice on 1, and seal of primordium plays around that, which is incidentally, the same reason I believe people were testing disenchant. I had a spiritdancer out, and was able to cast 1 drop enchant 1 after another to dig up the seal and then swing for the win through his 10ish creatures due to spirit mantle, which incidentally, you can also cast around chalice on 1. Finally, having it sit on the field makes etheral armor better just like Leyline / suppression field / rest in peace packages.
As for the meta, I think Death Shadow is enemy number 1 in the meta this weekend after watching the video on the article you shared - and thanks for that - discard is a house against us - losing our 1 boggle turn 1 on the draw ends games. I think the meta will have a reasonable amount of these bad(IMO) matchups: Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Jund. Maybe some Abzan liliana stuff too. I think there is an uptick in scapeshift which is a good matchup for us. In general, boggles felt right the last month or so to me but now might not be a great time for the deck. It is my pet deck however so I will keep playing it - and besides, you might just play 9 rogue brews.
I think sideboarding is the real question...
My current board is:
2 Dismember
2 feed the clan
4 leyline of sanctity
3 stony silence
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe.
I think I plan to update it to:
4 leyline of sanctity
4 seal of primordium
2 mana tithe
2 stony silence
2 dismember
1 open the armory.
To include Glistener Elf package:
4 leyline of sanctity
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe
1 stony silence
1 dismember
4 glistener elf
1 open the armory
And in the main right now I think we want to be running 4 path's, only 2 kor spiritdancer and at least 2 Spirit Mantle because it has been amazing for me the last few weeks at modern. I have the open the armory in the board in part to act as a third spirit mantle.
*edited for seal of primordium thoughts.
I'd have to agree with the both of you. G1 of nothing but hexproofs and no sign of Spiritdancer would leave an opponent more inclined to side out all creature removal, I'd imagine. You'd still have to worry about bolt, but that's what totems are for. I've been fairly busy with grad school as of late and haven't had many chances to get out and play, so I'm unfamilar with the current Tron variants running around in the meta. Traditionally, we've always had a very good matchup against vanilla Tron decks, but Eldrazi Tron looks like a whole new beast. Your SB plan is largely meta-dependent, so work it to your advantage. I see you're running mana tithe and I'm curious if you've seen any success with it? I've tried it a number of times and it never really took off for me; always one of those things that looks better on paper.
I'm very intrigued by other players trying Glistener out of the SB, so definitely report back with any results. When I get some down time, I'm gonna dust off my elves and start tinkering again haha.
Very true. Against Tron I think I prefer Suppression Field.
Would you say that it boggles your mind?....
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
No, I just get somewhat OCD about people mispronouncing Magic card names (when in reality, I'm probably mispronouncing a bunch of stuff and just don't know about I).
(I mean no offense to somebody that actually has OCD.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)GWAura-HexproofGW
I've tried it a few times. I liked it a lot. It's def no more than a two of. There's obvious overlap between Lunarch Mantle, Spirit Mantle, and Gryff's Boon. I feel like they are all vying for a similar spot/role. I like Lunarch's +2/+2 to get out of Anger range. It's also a nice draw against Chalice. All depends what you run into. I don't think there is a definitive right or wrong between the three.
It's enticing. I've just had trouble with speed and consistency every time I've tested it. I spend the first two turns dicking around with the stalker and by the time I have something set up, I either take 15 poison from Blinkmoth or 27 damage from cranial plating or am staring down Ugin. I'm not saying it can't work but I just prefer the consistency and speed of GW.
Interesting. I'd run a 1-of lunarch mantle for *****s and gigs; seems like it'd had nice synergy with Rancor. I've also been playing around with a 1-of bear umbra out of the SB; that's the nice thing about Open the Armory, it allows for some interesting singletons.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Solid report; thanks for sharing! I feel your pain on the Burn loss; we have a great matchup on paper, so it's always a bummer when variance bites you in the ass; Deflecting Palm haunts my dreams.
What are your thoughts on OTA? Considering you didn't plan to run it, I assume you're not a fan, but I'm always interested in how it works out (or doesn't) for other Bogle players. I've played around with a varying number of copies and I've found x1 main board to be ideal in my meta. I mostly like the fact that it affords us some flexibility when side-boarding and makes it feasible to run singletons of auras which we'd normally avoid having multiples of. However, it can make for clunky opening hands and the 2cmc doesn't help its cause either. Typically, it earns its spot whenever my opponent is running Chalice on 1 and I'm desperately searching for a Mantle. In regards to Ghostly Prison, I'd like to hear how it works out for you should you decide to include it in the 75. I used to run 1 main/1 in the side along with MB Suppression Field pre-Twin ban and it worked wonders in my particular meta; like you mentioned, not many folks plan for Bogles and those who do don't expect to see a Game 1 Ghostly Prison!
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I hear ya loud and clear. I'd love to go back to my old list haha. Unfortunately, I'm basically known as "Bogles" guy at my LGS so the Chalices are a plenty. I've adjusted by adding two MB ledgewalkers, Seal of Primordium, extra spirit mantles, bear umbra singleton, and a few other random 2cmc auras & artifact removal. OTA has been helpful in this regard since it allows me to get an aura that will stick, but it mostly performs subpar against non-chalice matchups. Lately I've been playing modern Cheeri0s at FNM, so I'm hoping that will lower everyone's guard for the next time I come ready to give a Bogle beatdown lol.
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I'm sure some folks have brewed with B, but I don't think you'll find much empirical data. I actually tinkered around with Phyresis and glistener elf out of the SB a couple years ago. My train of thought was that once our opponent knows what we're on, they side out their creature removal and we can sneak in a dirty infect win game 2. While it was a blast to play, it made for some pretty awful opening hands and occupied precious SB slots. However, I never really played around with it main deck, so I'm sure a more skilled brewer could whip up something that's more efficient. Due to where we're positioned in the meta, I strongly encourage fellow Bogle-lovers to experiment with new brews. I'd love to hear what you're able to come up with!
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As for the sideboard infect transformation, it fails because people will still always keep in cards like Lightning Bolt, Kolaghan's Command and Abrupt Decay. In many cases even Path to Exile isn't sideboarded out as an unanswered Spiritdancer can be devastating, and often there's not enough things to bring in to replace it.
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Silhana Ledgewalker
2 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Slippery Bogle
Spells(4)
1 Open the Armory
3 Path to Exile
Enchantments (24)
4 Rancor
2 Gryff's Boon
1 Spirit Link
4 Spider Umbra
4 Hyena Umbra
1 Spirit Mantle
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Temple Garden
1 Path to Exile
1 Spirit Link
4 Glistener Elf
2 Suppression Field
3 Stony Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
Not sure the formatting is right, but it's pretty typical other than the Silhana/Spiritwalker 2/2 split. I always have a hard time choosing between those but maybe the split is right. Spiritwalker is just so powerful though. The main craziness appears in that new sideboard tech of 4 Glistener Elf. Not sure what matchup that shores up though, but it would seem to give you a pretty damn fast kill. Anyway, I'm wondering if a list like this would be good for SCG Indy this weekend, as I think the deck would be in a decent spot right now in this meta, or if the build should be altered somewhat to adjust for the new Death's Shadow meta that is sure to be upon us.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
That's awesome; I've never seen another list try to run G.Elf out of the SB. Anyway, the Ledgewalker/Spiritdancer split isn't out of the ordinary; most pilots I've talked to began to include ledgewalker when Chalice started seeing more and more play. The same goes for Seal of Primordium, Krosan Grip, etc.
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Here are my thoughts as a non elite boggler who grinds a fair bit of modern and is thinking about running the Glistener Elf package out of the board:
1. Unopposed/with evasion, running an infect creature makes our clock half of what it previously was.
2. This deck provides many various curves that will give us 10 infect by turn 3. A turn 2 kill with infect in bogles seems impossible, the best we can do is hang onto an opener of 2 leyline, glistener elf, 2 mana, 2 etheral armor and swing for 9 infect turn 2.
3. We are speeding up at the cost of losing our hexproof.
4. The decks I notice trending in the meta currently: deaths shadow jund, tron, scapeshift.
5. The decks we have a problem interacting with include: Bant Company Combo decks, lantern control, tron.
So all that said, it seems to me that the basic pattern is when we play these hard to interact with decks, if we need to race before they go off glistener elf is a good choice. Also if our opponent is boarding out what appears to be targeted removal, glistener elf is a good choice. Specifically I want to prey on Bant Combo after they board out paths and scapeshift after they board out bolts. Maybe the same theory applies to grixis depending on how much removal they board out. Remember, if a persist creature dies to infect, they don't come back.
Also, against tron, especially on the play, a glistener elf should be able to race. Infect gives us a chance to beat ensnaring bridge if the lantern player doesn't have it and can't find it.
In a perfect world, a tilted opponent boards removal back in and on the draw game 3 we can side out glistener elves to turn the removal back off.
Finally, the cutest thing will be to see how many players don't realize it is not a gladecover scout... I think the art for glistener is fairly iconic but you never know.
The main gist is that right now Modern is a little sturdier and less explosive, so you probably want Silhana Ledgewalker over Kor Spiritwalker. I think if you go with 4 Ledgewalker, it has an implication on sideboard Glistener Elfs as well. On the one hand, you may not need them to race because you might dodge non-interactive combo altogether. But on the other hand, in game 1 you have ZERO creatures that can be Path'd, Bolted, or Fatally Pushed, so opponents may be more likely to side those out, making the Infectious Elf a good option. I'm still on the fence.
I'm also on the fence as to whether this deck will be a good pick for SCG Indy. Thoughts? Cards that make me nervous are Liliana of the Veil, Blessed Alliance, Blood Moon, and Engineered Explosives. Leyline answers Liliana, but I don't think we would bring it in against a deck that ran Blessed Alliance. Against Blood Moon we're stuck with Seal of Primordium, or we can try the plan I saw once of running 4 Noble Hierarchs and 4 Natural State. Hierarchs are a decent hedge against sacrifice cards and Blood Moon, actually. Explosives will pretty much wreck our day I think, just have to hold stuff back and play smart.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Are decks keeping in targeted removal just to deal with a 2-4 of? Maybe bad players would which kinda backdoors them into having good game against glistener elf.
Re: Seal of primordium - I have come full circle on this card. I had it in my board early, messed around with natural state, nature's claim, disenchant and am back on seal. It is an important card because you can play it pro-actively. Instead of having to hold up mana, at all times, to deal with chalice of the void or engineered explosives, you just stick it turn 2 in matches it matters, and then carry on with your life. It gets in under blood moon while allowing you to fetch temples or play razorverge thickets. Last night against bant eldrazi, I boarded in 3 to deal with: spellskite, EE, chalice - the game stalled unexpectedly when he played a turn 4 worship. He also had out a chalice on 1. Our opponents ALWAYS chalice on 1, and seal of primordium plays around that, which is incidentally, the same reason I believe people were testing disenchant. I had a spiritdancer out, and was able to cast 1 drop enchant 1 after another to dig up the seal and then swing for the win through his 10ish creatures due to spirit mantle, which incidentally, you can also cast around chalice on 1. Finally, having it sit on the field makes etheral armor better just like Leyline / suppression field / rest in peace packages.
As for the meta, I think Death Shadow is enemy number 1 in the meta this weekend after watching the video on the article you shared - and thanks for that - discard is a house against us - losing our 1 boggle turn 1 on the draw ends games. I think the meta will have a reasonable amount of these bad(IMO) matchups: Tron, Bant Eldrazi, Jund. Maybe some Abzan liliana stuff too. I think there is an uptick in scapeshift which is a good matchup for us. In general, boggles felt right the last month or so to me but now might not be a great time for the deck. It is my pet deck however so I will keep playing it - and besides, you might just play 9 rogue brews.
I think sideboarding is the real question...
My current board is:
2 Dismember
2 feed the clan
4 leyline of sanctity
3 stony silence
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe.
I think I plan to update it to:
4 leyline of sanctity
4 seal of primordium
2 mana tithe
2 stony silence
2 dismember
1 open the armory.
To include Glistener Elf package:
4 leyline of sanctity
3 seal of primordium
1 mana tithe
1 stony silence
1 dismember
4 glistener elf
1 open the armory
And in the main right now I think we want to be running 4 path's, only 2 kor spiritdancer and at least 2 Spirit Mantle because it has been amazing for me the last few weeks at modern. I have the open the armory in the board in part to act as a third spirit mantle.
*edited for seal of primordium thoughts.
I'd have to agree with the both of you. G1 of nothing but hexproofs and no sign of Spiritdancer would leave an opponent more inclined to side out all creature removal, I'd imagine. You'd still have to worry about bolt, but that's what totems are for. I've been fairly busy with grad school as of late and haven't had many chances to get out and play, so I'm unfamilar with the current Tron variants running around in the meta. Traditionally, we've always had a very good matchup against vanilla Tron decks, but Eldrazi Tron looks like a whole new beast. Your SB plan is largely meta-dependent, so work it to your advantage. I see you're running mana tithe and I'm curious if you've seen any success with it? I've tried it a number of times and it never really took off for me; always one of those things that looks better on paper.
I'm very intrigued by other players trying Glistener out of the SB, so definitely report back with any results. When I get some down time, I'm gonna dust off my elves and start tinkering again haha.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.