Thanks for the results posting, I have been trying to build this deck for a while and it is one of my favorites I have come across. I hope it starts to gain more popularity as it's a powerful deck and I've always been much more of a fan of fair decks.
When I began making this I saw most people running 2x Liliana of the Veil but now everyone seems to be running 4. How crucial would you say this is? Is it because of the new legend ruling that it's become easier to run 4-of, being able to drop one as a kill spell and bring down a second at full power?
I began playing earlier this year and have really taken a liking to playing junk (G/W/B) because that's what I played in standard pre-rotation. I really want to continue to play this color combination in modern but I'm on a budget and can't afford a lot of the cards for most of the builds I've seen.
Things that I have:
*Abrupt Decay x 4
*Thoughtseize x 3
*Lingering Souls x 4
*I will have a playset of Deathrite Shamans soon and Scavenging Oozes but I feel that Deathrite Shaman won't live up to its full potential without fetchlands.
Things I would need to substitute for:
*Tarmogoyf
*Dark Confident
*Probably Deathrite Shaman
*Lilianna of the Veil
I still feel that I could build a decent deck I just can't afford some Tarmagoyfs, Dark Confidents, fetchlands (possibly ruling out deathrite) and Liliannas.
Any recommendations for good builds without the usual things?
Things that I have:
*Abrupt Decay x 4
*Thoughtseize x 3
*Lingering Souls x 4
*I will have a playset of Deathrite Shamans soon and Scavenging Oozes but I feel that Deathrite Shaman won't live up to its full potential without fetchlands.
Things I would need to substitute for:
*Tarmogoyf
*Dark Confident
*Probably Deathrite Shaman
*Lilianna of the Veil
I still feel that I could build a decent deck I just can't afford some Tarmagoyfs, Dark Confidents, fetchlands (possibly ruling out deathrite) and Liliannas.
Any recommendations for good builds without the usual things?
Hi!
I made a junk deck too, but at the start, I didnt have all I needed. Here's something you could try that worked great back then.
Goyf: 4 ooze. trust me, while its not as good, its REALLY doing a great job. Its not worth 150$ and more, but you got some solid creature here.
Another beater? Get a set of Loxodon smiter. They're a blast to play and only cost 4$ each i think. Survives bolt, VERY efficient, ''4 up your face'' beater, can't be countered.
About the Deathrite shaman: they lose some of their potential without the fetchs, but they're too good to not play. Play test them and steal ur opponent graveyard.
Dark confidant: ouch, but I use to play 4 phyrexian arena instead. Not the same thing, but allows you to play bigger mana cost thingy.
Liliana: damnnnnn now I'm out of idea... 4 kitchen finks? Its card advange kinda.. And you could run 4 restoration angel to combo a little and do some annoying combat tricks. I would pick 4 fleshbag marauders for the removal and the 3/1 beatstick. As some potential to ''combo'' with lingering soul.
so:
Creatures (17)
4 deathrite shaman: global good
4 ooze: beater, life gainer, graveyard remover. nuff said?
4 Loxodon smiter: beater, above the curve, no counter spell here. Could be switched for 4 restoration angel to repeat the fleshbag marauder.
4 fleash bag marauder (I really cant find anything else for the moment )
1 bird of paradise: in case the shaman ain't enough to accelerate da mana
Spells(20)
4 lingering souls: sacrifice fodder for the marauder, evasive and persistant
4 abrupt decay: that's good stuff.
3 despise: creatures and walkers?Get 3 inquisition of kozilek if the budget allows it
2 path to exile: best removal in the format. My deck run 3 with 3 abrupt decay
4 phyrexian arena: not the same as confidant, but could do the trick. Hard on the mana still
3 thoughtseize: I'm jealous. I got my lilianas, fetchs and confidant but none of this bad ass. Its just good.
23 lands: i don't know what you have with you at the moment, but if you are on a budget, shock land/check lands/fast lands are pretty cheap at the moment. You could do some neat stuff with those.
But among your lands, you should include:
2-3 treetop village: real handy very often
1 vault of the archangel: your 1/1 spirit are now lethal.
1 Gavony township: help your tokens, upgrade your creatures and is always a nice way to waste your mana if you get flooded.
2-4 tectonic edges: because you like to blow up fancy lands.
Its quick draft and sorry if I didnt do any card tag kinda lazy at the moment.
So I'm wondering more about the match-up of Junk against things that bank on better card advantage than what's available to us. What is the match up versus something like UWR like and how do you go about it? One of my friends plays it and I feel as though I'm at a slight disadvantage, the games are fair but if you don't take a super aggressive stance it's difficult to seal a win and aggression isn't something Junk is entirely built for.
Also opinion: I'm thinking about if it's at all beneficial to run either/or of Loxodon Smiter and Kitchen Finks. The 3 drop spot gets pretty flooded in combination with Liliana. I like Finks because I think the life gain is necessary since turn 1 you're typically paying anywhere from 3-5 life and Bob is going to make you pay more. But other than that finks is a pretty boring card that doesn't do a whole lot, same with Smiter. The 4/4 body for 3 is sweet, uncounterable is sweet, and the discard ability is a rare bonus but a nice one.
Also opinion: I'm thinking about if it's at all beneficial to run either/or of Loxodon Smiter and Kitchen Finks. The 3 drop spot gets pretty flooded in combination with Liliana. I like Finks because I think the life gain is necessary since turn 1 you're typically paying anywhere from 3-5 life and Bob is going to make you pay more. But other than that finks is a pretty boring card that doesn't do a whole lot, same with Smiter. The 4/4 body for 3 is sweet, uncounterable is sweet, and the discard ability is a rare bonus but a nice one.
I'm also not too hot for the finks. They're nice but kinda more like a SB card. On that point, they will often hit the field on turn 2 since we have 5 mana dork.
For the smiter, after trying him a lot, I must say I reallllly like the big guy. The discard bonus is quite nice if lili is popular in your meta and people have a lot of trouble removing him most of the time. And like I said for finks: he often hit the field on turn 2 and can pretty hard head on. So far, never a dead draw for me. But I could be wrong.
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Playing modern: all BGx, storm, burn, green eldrazi, dredge.
I have recently fallen seriously in love with this deck, but unfortunately Gr tron makes up around 30% of the meta where I play and people say the matchup is bad for us. So far I have not played a single modern tournament without facing at least one version of tron, so I was just wondering what main and sideboard adjustments should be made to make that matchup favorable and what strategy is best employed.
I figure 3 Fulminator Mage is a must and consider adding 1-2Aven Mindcensor, but the problem is that censor still dies to Pyroclasm, which seems to be a pain as the deck already seems fairly weak to that card through DRS, Bob and sometimes goyf after a Relic of Progenitus.
I also wonder how you should play. Would you play turn 1 Thoughtseize or turn 1 DRS into Liliana when on the play. What when you don't have a liliana, but let's say LS and what when you're on the draw. Should I try to be aggressive and hope they don't draw Oblivion Stone or should I commit as little resources as possible and just try to grind it out? Would you side out IoK? It doesn't seem to hit any of the important threats, but could hit a map if I'm on the play and let's me at least craft a gameplan, so really uncertain here.
For Karn there is only Mealstrom Pulse and seize that I can think of as good answers, Phyrexian Revoker seems like a bad answer as it dies to oblivion stone and pyroclasm. Hero's downfall should be an option, but sort of would go in the same slot as pulse, so maybe just go 2 pulses main and 1 in side or something?
Wurmcoil there's only Path to Exile, so I'm pretty certain I should run that as a 4-of, even though many here think 3 is better due to bad synergy with Ooze, DRS and goyf. If there are some other good answers I'm forgetting then let me know.
I figure my first Fulminator should go for the Eye of Ugin unless I have a Tectonic Edge as I should most games have plenty of time before Emrakul comes down if I can get rid of it.
So in my head I am seeing me starting of with a thoughtseize, see him sitting on Wurmcoil, Oblvion stone, some fetch and lands and myself sitting with Abrupt Decay and some creatures. I let him ditch the wurmcoil as I have answer to stone and from there it should be him needing to find answers to my stuff, giving me time to find answers to his future threats.
Then there's the game where I don't start with Thoughtseize, play a bunch of cards and get blown out by Oblivion Stone. Should you mulligan a 7-card hand without thoughtseize or Liliana at least? What about a 6-card hand?
To me the matchup doesn't seem all that bad as it's not like we can't answer their stuff, which actually some decks have no chance of doing, but I would prefer to have a sideboard to pretty much guarantee a win here as the odds of meeting one of them is quite overwhelming and the chances of meeting two or more are moderate.
Thanks for your thoughts, Stony Silence I hadn't really considered, but it's obviously amazing in the matchup. It actually seems quite hard to lose if you resolve it on the play as it turns off all their manafilters so they will most likely be stuck with a lot of useless cards. On the draw I might have to slow roll it a bit if I see they can get turn 3 tron, but should still be helpful.
So what I'm thinking now is to run 1 fulminator in main and side out 2 Ooze(I only run 2 in main), both Abrupts, the Dismember, and side in 2 fulminators more and 3 stony silence. I do have an elspeth and a Thrun in main to do some beating and then I run 2 goyfs, 3 bobs, 3 voices and 2 finks(1 which will be probably be swapped for the fulminator mage though). Might be the last finks should go for a smiter or a KoTR, but it's good vs oblivion stone and generally good in most matchups. I can probably do some damage before he resolves a wurmcoil, and hopefully have a path for that, or enough beaters out that neither +4 or -3 on Karn does anything more than trade a card. If all else fails I might have a mealstrom pulse that can do the trick. I will do a lot of testing to see if I can get the post-board win-rate up to 60% at least. The thing I love with this deck is that you can punish mulligans quite a lot, so can win really horrid matchups with simply turn 1 thoughtseize after he mulligans to 5.
So here is a list that I am thinking of building. I started out with Jund, but I just dont really like it that much. Not really sure why, my first modern deck is Kiki Pod, and I absolutely love it. Hopefully I get the same feeling for Junk as I do with it. Here is the list I am thinking about:
So here is a list that I am thinking of building. I started out with Jund, but I just dont really like it that much. Not really sure why, my first modern deck is Kiki Pod, and I absolutely love it. Hopefully I get the same feeling for Junk as I do with it. Here is the list I am thinking about:
Just curious, what's your reasoning behind not including Abrupt Decay or Path to Exile at all? Otherwise it looks like a pretty solid build and I hope you find it's more up your alley than jund was.
Just curious, what's your reasoning behind not including Abrupt Decay or Path to Exile at all? Otherwise it looks like a pretty solid build and I hope you find it's more up your alley than jund was.
Oops Disfigure was supposed to be Decay, thats my fault. As for path, I dont really like the card in general. There is very few that it hits, that all the other removal spells wont. The biggest being Wurmcoil, but there are thoughtseizes to hopefully deal with that. Another removal spell I really would like to try out is Victim of Night. It seems very solid.
I will say though path is better against Pod decks, but hopefully the 4 Deathrites, 2 Oozes, and the Knight fetching a timely Bojuka Bog will be enough to end some kitchen finks/redcap shenanigans.
At this point I think Path might be a trap, unless youre playing something very aggressive, or soul sisters that have little removal in their color.
Oops Disfigure was supposed to be Decay, thats my fault. As for path, I dont really like the card in general. There is very few that it hits, that all the other removal spells wont. The biggest being Wurmcoil, but there are thoughtseizes to hopefully deal with that. Another removal spell I really would like to try out is Victim of Night. It seems very solid.
I will say though path is better against Pod decks, but hopefully the 4 Deathrites, 2 Oozes, and the Knight fetching a timely Bojuka Bog will be enough to end some kitchen finks/redcap shenanigans.
At this point I think Path might be a trap, unless youre playing something very aggressive, or soul sisters that have little removal in their color.
Your list looks quite ok, but to me path is really an all-star in the deck. Getting the wurmcoil with the thoughtseize will rarely happen and if you do take it, a Karn will most likely hit the field in its stead. When they activate Eye of Ugin end of turn you never have a window to resolve the thoughtseize, so you'll be happy when you sit with the path. When looking at what removal you want to be sitting on, I really would think that it's a good idea to look at the tier 1 decks at the moment:
Affinity
Jund
Tron
Birthing Pod
Twin Exarch
Those 5 usually account for more than 50% of the metagame most places and will usually also be the hardest decks to beat. Against Affinity and Jund you are fine with only dismembers, abrupts and pulses, and twin you might be fine, and you might not be. Abrupt doesn't deal with Kiki-Jiki or Splinter Twin(but usually whatever this is cast upon). Against Melira Pod, Abrupt can be terrible as they just get their creatures back with Reveillark or you won't kill it at all, if its a finks, voice or redcap, or you actually need 3 specifically colored mana to kill one of them and then immediately exile with ooze or shaman, which usually doesn't happen, especially not in your list as you run quite few dual-colored sources. Against Voice even that won't help. And against tron you'll only hit an expedition map or something if you're on the play, while dismember just does nothing pretty much...
Dismember and Dark Confidant really don't work that well together either, I really prefer to keep the 3-CMC-count fairly low. While I still run one dismember myself, I'd probably cut it if I found a good enough substitute. If I could run 5 paths I would have. Even against decks where they're not that good, like UWR-control or Scapeshift, they do actually hit the Celestial Colonnade and Primeval Titan where abrupt decay actually can't do anything.
The manacost of W also fits much better with the rest of the deck. You will often want to cast a Lili+path, which is much more reasonable to do than Liliana+dismember/abrupt. Your creatures are generally black/green based, so will quite often be able to sit with W up after you play them.
Downside is of course that your goyf and ooze get less food, but getting a creature to the graveyard usually isn't too hard with this deck and you do at least get an instant.
While you obviously have to consider the meta where you play it just seems right to me to have as many paths as possible. In the start of the game I usually prefer to play hand disruption, deathrites, bobs, goyfs, souls or lilianas so that my remvoal also nets me some damage. The land they gain will thus usually not be that big. Having the option to swap a path+deathrite for a land can also help you if you kept a one-lander with DRS and don't get anymore.
On a sidenote, I have actually played 3 matches vs Tron now in the last couple of days and have won all of them. While I lost game 1 in two of them, I haven't lost a single post-board game. After sideboard I run 3 tectonic edge, 4 Fulminator Mage and 2 Stony Silence. Getting tron assembled just doesn't happen anymore. I also run 3 Treetop Village, which seems to be really good in the matchup. Usually kill them with a treetop village+goyf/bob while killing lands or enjoying a field full of useless artifacts. Even if Karn resolves he usually has to take a creature to survive letting my treetop finish him off. While I obviously need to play loads more to get any good statistics, I still would say the matchup is actually quite good.
Your list looks quite ok, but to me path is really an all-star in the deck. Getting the wurmcoil with the thoughtseize will rarely happen and if you do take it, a Karn will most likely hit the field in its stead. When they activate Eye of Ugin end of turn you never have a window to resolve the thoughtseize, so you'll be happy when you sit with the path. When looking at what removal you want to be sitting on, I really would think that it's a good idea to look at the tier 1 decks at the moment:
Affinity
Jund
Tron
Birthing Pod
Twin Exarch
Those 5 usually account for more than 50% of the metagame most places and will usually also be the hardest decks to beat. Against Affinity and Jund you are fine with only dismembers, abrupts and pulses, and twin you might be fine, and you might not be. Abrupt doesn't deal with Kiki-Jiki or Splinter Twin(but usually whatever this is cast upon). Against Melira Pod, Abrupt can be terrible as they just get their creatures back with Reveillark or you won't kill it at all, if its a finks, voice or redcap, or you actually need 3 specifically colored mana to kill one of them and then immediately exile with ooze or shaman, which usually doesn't happen, especially not in your list as you run quite few dual-colored sources. Against Voice even that won't help. And against tron you'll only hit an expedition map or something if you're on the play, while dismember just does nothing pretty much...
Dismember and Dark Confidant really don't work that well together either, I really prefer to keep the 3-CMC-count fairly low. While I still run one dismember myself, I'd probably cut it if I found a good enough substitute. If I could run 5 paths I would have. Even against decks where they're not that good, like UWR-control or Scapeshift, they do actually hit the Celestial Colonnade and Primeval Titan where abrupt decay actually can't do anything.
The manacost of W also fits much better with the rest of the deck. You will often want to cast a Lili+path, which is much more reasonable to do than Liliana+dismember/abrupt. Your creatures are generally black/green based, so will quite often be able to sit with W up after you play them.
Downside is of course that your goyf and ooze get less food, but getting a creature to the graveyard usually isn't too hard with this deck and you do at least get an instant.
While you obviously have to consider the meta where you play it just seems right to me to have as many paths as possible. In the start of the game I usually prefer to play hand disruption, deathrites, bobs, goyfs, souls or lilianas so that my remvoal also nets me some damage. The land they gain will thus usually not be that big. Having the option to swap a path+deathrite for a land can also help you if you kept a one-lander with DRS and don't get anymore.
On a sidenote, I have actually played 3 matches vs Tron now in the last couple of days and have won all of them. While I lost game 1 in two of them, I haven't lost a single post-board game. After sideboard I run 3 tectonic edge, 4 Fulminator Mage and 2 Stony Silence. Getting tron assembled just doesn't happen anymore. I also run 3 Treetop Village, which seems to be really good in the matchup. Usually kill them with a treetop village+goyf/bob while killing lands or enjoying a field full of useless artifacts. Even if Karn resolves he usually has to take a creature to survive letting my treetop finish him off. While I obviously need to play loads more to get any good statistics, I still would say the matchup is actually quite good.
I can understand what youre saying about path, but I think dismember is slightly better. I am not worried about Melria Pod getting their creatures back with Revelark or anything like that because of the 4 Deathrite Shamans, and 2 Oozes in the Main. As for Twin, Dismember and Decay hits everything you need it to. Dismember hits Kiki Jiki, and Decay hits Pestermite and Exarch.
I dont know though, Ill try Path out and see how I like it.
I can understand what youre saying about path, but I think dismember is slightly better. I am not worried about Melria Pod getting their creatures back with Revelark or anything like that because of the 4 Deathrite Shamans, and 2 Oozes in the Main. As for Twin, Dismember and Decay hits everything you need it to. Dismember hits Kiki Jiki, and Decay hits Pestermite and Exarch.
I dont know though, Ill try Path out and see how I like it.
I have included Paths over Dismembers in my own deck as a way to deal with Wurmcoil Engine and the occasional annoying deck cheating in Blightsteel Colossus. The rampant growth effect is pretty marginal in my opinion since we are not playing mana leaks.
Ashling costs too much to do too little. Its effect only matters if it connects with your opponent, and its mana cost is not synergystic with Confidant.
Murmuring bosk has the problem of dealing us more life points of damage when we're already taking a ton from Thought Seize, shocks, fetches, and Confidants, and still being weak to blood moon.
Vorapede is again too expensive, and it can be removed too easily. Batterskull would be much better if you insist on a five drop.
Hero of Bladehold can be quite good. While she dies to a fair amount of common removal, if she sticks, she can win the game by herself. Of course, the problem is getting her to stick, and because she costs 4 mana, it's hard to justify her in conjunction with confidant for her effect. Usable, but probably not competitively viable, unless you're going for more of a swarm strategy.
Thrun can actually be pretty great in this deck. He's hard for most decks to deal with as he can be regenerated, can't be countered, and can't be targeted by them. In addition, he carries swords, and auras like a boss, so he's a decent maindeck choice if that's relevant enough to you.
Raven's crime I would only suggest if you're doing a life from the loam package.
Rancors are a maybe. I'm not sure on their viability myself.
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Collecting Maw of the Mire! Feel free to send me any you have, so long as they're in reasonable condition.
Ashling costs too much to do too little. Its effect only matters if it connects with your opponent, and its mana cost is not synergystic with Confidant.
Murmuring bosk has the problem of dealing us more life points of damage when we're already taking a ton from Thought Seize, shocks, fetches, and Confidants, and still being weak to blood moon.
Vorapede is again too expensive, and it can be removed too easily. Batterskull would be much better if you insist on a five drop.
Hero of Bladehold can be quite good. While she dies to a fair amount of common removal, if she sticks, she can win the game by herself. Of course, the problem is getting her to stick, and because she costs 4 mana, it's hard to justify her in conjunction with confidant for her effect. Usable, but probably not competitively viable, unless you're going for more of a swarm strategy.
Thrun can actually be pretty great in this deck. He's hard for most decks to deal with as he can be regenerated, can't be countered, and can't be targeted by them. In addition, he carries swords, and auras like a boss, so he's a decent maindeck choice if that's relevant enough to you.
Raven's crime I would only suggest if you're doing a life from the loam package.
Rancors are a maybe. I'm not sure on their viability myself.
Thanks for reinstating my opinion of the cards I listed. My local meta is heavy aggro based, ranging from vamps to heavy boros swing team.
Raven's Crime definitely does work, reminding me about loam was an appreciated service. So if I were to run 4 loam, should I be building into Bloodghast or possibly Vengvine? To counter my meta I run Rancors so Thrun can go head to head with a majority of creatures 6 power and under. I've been really inconsistent with what I'm saying, so I'll have decklist up later today to give you a feel of what I want to achieve. Thank you for your time.
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You came close, but no one shall ever become as ridiculously terrible as Razor Boomerang.
Thanks for the posting! Question: Why do you run Rakdos Charm? Having the Blood Crypt seems like a waste if it's the only card you use it for. Why not Nihil Spellbomb instead? It doesn't hit artifacts but draws you a card and essentially does what you want it to.
^ Obviously I can’t speak for Magix, but I would sideboard Rakdos Charm against SplinterTwin type decks: they make a billion creature copies, I use the Charm to have each creature do one damage to them.
@ Magix and Silver Swarm Queen
Don't be alarmed due to the lack of fetches, sure they would make my deck many times more efficent though.
The cards here I don't currently own are 1 KotR, the Dorans, Abrupt Decay, Murmuring Bosk and Tectonic Edge. I'm ordering them tonite, but before I do, I hope that you could quickly review this and recommend some replacements or improvements. Aside from this I'm picking up Elesh Norn for funzies.
Despite the hand distruption spells being budget, I believe my offensive field of Bladehold + Lingering Souls + Rancor fills the gap.
Magix/SSQ you've been a great help for a player trying to enter the comepetitive scene. Thank you for your help once again!
When I began making this I saw most people running 2x Liliana of the Veil but now everyone seems to be running 4. How crucial would you say this is? Is it because of the new legend ruling that it's become easier to run 4-of, being able to drop one as a kill spell and bring down a second at full power?
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Things that I have:
*Abrupt Decay x 4
*Thoughtseize x 3
*Lingering Souls x 4
*I will have a playset of Deathrite Shamans soon and Scavenging Oozes but I feel that Deathrite Shaman won't live up to its full potential without fetchlands.
Things I would need to substitute for:
*Tarmogoyf
*Dark Confident
*Probably Deathrite Shaman
*Lilianna of the Veil
I still feel that I could build a decent deck I just can't afford some Tarmagoyfs, Dark Confidents, fetchlands (possibly ruling out deathrite) and Liliannas.
Any recommendations for good builds without the usual things?
Merged with official Junk Primer
-ktkenshinx-
Hi!
I made a junk deck too, but at the start, I didnt have all I needed. Here's something you could try that worked great back then.
Goyf: 4 ooze. trust me, while its not as good, its REALLY doing a great job. Its not worth 150$ and more, but you got some solid creature here.
Another beater? Get a set of Loxodon smiter. They're a blast to play and only cost 4$ each i think. Survives bolt, VERY efficient, ''4 up your face'' beater, can't be countered.
About the Deathrite shaman: they lose some of their potential without the fetchs, but they're too good to not play. Play test them and steal ur opponent graveyard.
Dark confidant: ouch, but I use to play 4 phyrexian arena instead. Not the same thing, but allows you to play bigger mana cost thingy.
Liliana: damnnnnn now I'm out of idea... 4 kitchen finks? Its card advange kinda.. And you could run 4 restoration angel to combo a little and do some annoying combat tricks. I would pick 4 fleshbag marauders for the removal and the 3/1 beatstick. As some potential to ''combo'' with lingering soul.
so:
Creatures (17)
4 deathrite shaman: global good
4 ooze: beater, life gainer, graveyard remover. nuff said?
4 Loxodon smiter: beater, above the curve, no counter spell here. Could be switched for 4 restoration angel to repeat the fleshbag marauder.
4 fleash bag marauder (I really cant find anything else for the moment )
1 bird of paradise: in case the shaman ain't enough to accelerate da mana
Spells(20)
4 lingering souls: sacrifice fodder for the marauder, evasive and persistant
4 abrupt decay: that's good stuff.
3 despise: creatures and walkers?Get 3 inquisition of kozilek if the budget allows it
2 path to exile: best removal in the format. My deck run 3 with 3 abrupt decay
4 phyrexian arena: not the same as confidant, but could do the trick. Hard on the mana still
3 thoughtseize: I'm jealous. I got my lilianas, fetchs and confidant but none of this bad ass. Its just good.
23 lands: i don't know what you have with you at the moment, but if you are on a budget, shock land/check lands/fast lands are pretty cheap at the moment. You could do some neat stuff with those.
But among your lands, you should include:
2-3 treetop village: real handy very often
1 vault of the archangel: your 1/1 spirit are now lethal.
1 Gavony township: help your tokens, upgrade your creatures and is always a nice way to waste your mana if you get flooded.
2-4 tectonic edges: because you like to blow up fancy lands.
Its quick draft and sorry if I didnt do any card tag kinda lazy at the moment.
Also opinion: I'm thinking about if it's at all beneficial to run either/or of Loxodon Smiter and Kitchen Finks. The 3 drop spot gets pretty flooded in combination with Liliana. I like Finks because I think the life gain is necessary since turn 1 you're typically paying anywhere from 3-5 life and Bob is going to make you pay more. But other than that finks is a pretty boring card that doesn't do a whole lot, same with Smiter. The 4/4 body for 3 is sweet, uncounterable is sweet, and the discard ability is a rare bonus but a nice one.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
I'm also not too hot for the finks. They're nice but kinda more like a SB card. On that point, they will often hit the field on turn 2 since we have 5 mana dork.
For the smiter, after trying him a lot, I must say I reallllly like the big guy. The discard bonus is quite nice if lili is popular in your meta and people have a lot of trouble removing him most of the time. And like I said for finks: he often hit the field on turn 2 and can pretty hard head on. So far, never a dead draw for me. But I could be wrong.
I figure 3 Fulminator Mage is a must and consider adding 1-2Aven Mindcensor, but the problem is that censor still dies to Pyroclasm, which seems to be a pain as the deck already seems fairly weak to that card through DRS, Bob and sometimes goyf after a Relic of Progenitus.
I also wonder how you should play. Would you play turn 1 Thoughtseize or turn 1 DRS into Liliana when on the play. What when you don't have a liliana, but let's say LS and what when you're on the draw. Should I try to be aggressive and hope they don't draw Oblivion Stone or should I commit as little resources as possible and just try to grind it out? Would you side out IoK? It doesn't seem to hit any of the important threats, but could hit a map if I'm on the play and let's me at least craft a gameplan, so really uncertain here.
They do have sort of few threats, ususally around 7-9 (3Wurmcoil Engine,4Karn Liberated,1Eye of Ugin,1Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. So I figure if I have more answers to those than he has threats, it should be quite good matchup.
For Karn there is only Mealstrom Pulse and seize that I can think of as good answers, Phyrexian Revoker seems like a bad answer as it dies to oblivion stone and pyroclasm. Hero's downfall should be an option, but sort of would go in the same slot as pulse, so maybe just go 2 pulses main and 1 in side or something?
Emrakul should be possible to answer via Fulminator Mage and possibly Lingering Souls and Liliana of the Veil.
Wurmcoil there's only Path to Exile, so I'm pretty certain I should run that as a 4-of, even though many here think 3 is better due to bad synergy with Ooze, DRS and goyf. If there are some other good answers I'm forgetting then let me know.
I figure my first Fulminator should go for the Eye of Ugin unless I have a Tectonic Edge as I should most games have plenty of time before Emrakul comes down if I can get rid of it.
So in my head I am seeing me starting of with a thoughtseize, see him sitting on Wurmcoil, Oblvion stone, some fetch and lands and myself sitting with Abrupt Decay and some creatures. I let him ditch the wurmcoil as I have answer to stone and from there it should be him needing to find answers to my stuff, giving me time to find answers to his future threats.
Then there's the game where I don't start with Thoughtseize, play a bunch of cards and get blown out by Oblivion Stone. Should you mulligan a 7-card hand without thoughtseize or Liliana at least? What about a 6-card hand?
To me the matchup doesn't seem all that bad as it's not like we can't answer their stuff, which actually some decks have no chance of doing, but I would prefer to have a sideboard to pretty much guarantee a win here as the odds of meeting one of them is quite overwhelming and the chances of meeting two or more are moderate.
So what I'm thinking now is to run 1 fulminator in main and side out 2 Ooze(I only run 2 in main), both Abrupts, the Dismember, and side in 2 fulminators more and 3 stony silence. I do have an elspeth and a Thrun in main to do some beating and then I run 2 goyfs, 3 bobs, 3 voices and 2 finks(1 which will be probably be swapped for the fulminator mage though). Might be the last finks should go for a smiter or a KoTR, but it's good vs oblivion stone and generally good in most matchups. I can probably do some damage before he resolves a wurmcoil, and hopefully have a path for that, or enough beaters out that neither +4 or -3 on Karn does anything more than trade a card. If all else fails I might have a mealstrom pulse that can do the trick. I will do a lot of testing to see if I can get the post-board win-rate up to 60% at least. The thing I love with this deck is that you can punish mulligans quite a lot, so can win really horrid matchups with simply turn 1 thoughtseize after he mulligans to 5.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
Spells:
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay
Lands:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Twilight Mire
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Gavony Township
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sigard, Host of Herons
1 Thoughtseize
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Path to Exile
3 Stoney Silence
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Liliana of the Veil
Just curious, what's your reasoning behind not including Abrupt Decay or Path to Exile at all? Otherwise it looks like a pretty solid build and I hope you find it's more up your alley than jund was.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Oops Disfigure was supposed to be Decay, thats my fault. As for path, I dont really like the card in general. There is very few that it hits, that all the other removal spells wont. The biggest being Wurmcoil, but there are thoughtseizes to hopefully deal with that. Another removal spell I really would like to try out is Victim of Night. It seems very solid.
I will say though path is better against Pod decks, but hopefully the 4 Deathrites, 2 Oozes, and the Knight fetching a timely Bojuka Bog will be enough to end some kitchen finks/redcap shenanigans.
At this point I think Path might be a trap, unless youre playing something very aggressive, or soul sisters that have little removal in their color.
Or you're doing something with Ghost quarter and Life from the loam to lock your opponent out of the game.
Which I don't think is competitively viable, considering it only worked for me in a casual game.
Your list looks quite ok, but to me path is really an all-star in the deck. Getting the wurmcoil with the thoughtseize will rarely happen and if you do take it, a Karn will most likely hit the field in its stead. When they activate Eye of Ugin end of turn you never have a window to resolve the thoughtseize, so you'll be happy when you sit with the path. When looking at what removal you want to be sitting on, I really would think that it's a good idea to look at the tier 1 decks at the moment:
Affinity
Jund
Tron
Birthing Pod
Twin Exarch
Those 5 usually account for more than 50% of the metagame most places and will usually also be the hardest decks to beat. Against Affinity and Jund you are fine with only dismembers, abrupts and pulses, and twin you might be fine, and you might not be. Abrupt doesn't deal with Kiki-Jiki or Splinter Twin(but usually whatever this is cast upon). Against Melira Pod, Abrupt can be terrible as they just get their creatures back with Reveillark or you won't kill it at all, if its a finks, voice or redcap, or you actually need 3 specifically colored mana to kill one of them and then immediately exile with ooze or shaman, which usually doesn't happen, especially not in your list as you run quite few dual-colored sources. Against Voice even that won't help. And against tron you'll only hit an expedition map or something if you're on the play, while dismember just does nothing pretty much...
Dismember and Dark Confidant really don't work that well together either, I really prefer to keep the 3-CMC-count fairly low. While I still run one dismember myself, I'd probably cut it if I found a good enough substitute. If I could run 5 paths I would have. Even against decks where they're not that good, like UWR-control or Scapeshift, they do actually hit the Celestial Colonnade and Primeval Titan where abrupt decay actually can't do anything.
The manacost of W also fits much better with the rest of the deck. You will often want to cast a Lili+path, which is much more reasonable to do than Liliana+dismember/abrupt. Your creatures are generally black/green based, so will quite often be able to sit with W up after you play them.
Downside is of course that your goyf and ooze get less food, but getting a creature to the graveyard usually isn't too hard with this deck and you do at least get an instant.
While you obviously have to consider the meta where you play it just seems right to me to have as many paths as possible. In the start of the game I usually prefer to play hand disruption, deathrites, bobs, goyfs, souls or lilianas so that my remvoal also nets me some damage. The land they gain will thus usually not be that big. Having the option to swap a path+deathrite for a land can also help you if you kept a one-lander with DRS and don't get anymore.
On a sidenote, I have actually played 3 matches vs Tron now in the last couple of days and have won all of them. While I lost game 1 in two of them, I haven't lost a single post-board game. After sideboard I run 3 tectonic edge, 4 Fulminator Mage and 2 Stony Silence. Getting tron assembled just doesn't happen anymore. I also run 3 Treetop Village, which seems to be really good in the matchup. Usually kill them with a treetop village+goyf/bob while killing lands or enjoying a field full of useless artifacts. Even if Karn resolves he usually has to take a creature to survive letting my treetop finish him off. While I obviously need to play loads more to get any good statistics, I still would say the matchup is actually quite good.
I can understand what youre saying about path, but I think dismember is slightly better. I am not worried about Melria Pod getting their creatures back with Revelark or anything like that because of the 4 Deathrite Shamans, and 2 Oozes in the Main. As for Twin, Dismember and Decay hits everything you need it to. Dismember hits Kiki Jiki, and Decay hits Pestermite and Exarch.
I dont know though, Ill try Path out and see how I like it.
I have included Paths over Dismembers in my own deck as a way to deal with Wurmcoil Engine and the occasional annoying deck cheating in Blightsteel Colossus. The rampant growth effect is pretty marginal in my opinion since we are not playing mana leaks.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Ashling costs too much to do too little. Its effect only matters if it connects with your opponent, and its mana cost is not synergystic with Confidant.
Murmuring bosk has the problem of dealing us more life points of damage when we're already taking a ton from Thought Seize, shocks, fetches, and Confidants, and still being weak to blood moon.
Vorapede is again too expensive, and it can be removed too easily. Batterskull would be much better if you insist on a five drop.
Hero of Bladehold can be quite good. While she dies to a fair amount of common removal, if she sticks, she can win the game by herself. Of course, the problem is getting her to stick, and because she costs 4 mana, it's hard to justify her in conjunction with confidant for her effect. Usable, but probably not competitively viable, unless you're going for more of a swarm strategy.
Thrun can actually be pretty great in this deck. He's hard for most decks to deal with as he can be regenerated, can't be countered, and can't be targeted by them. In addition, he carries swords, and auras like a boss, so he's a decent maindeck choice if that's relevant enough to you.
Raven's crime I would only suggest if you're doing a life from the loam package.
Rancors are a maybe. I'm not sure on their viability myself.
Thanks for reinstating my opinion of the cards I listed. My local meta is heavy aggro based, ranging from vamps to heavy boros swing team.
Raven's Crime definitely does work, reminding me about loam was an appreciated service. So if I were to run 4 loam, should I be building into Bloodghast or possibly Vengvine? To counter my meta I run Rancors so Thrun can go head to head with a majority of creatures 6 power and under. I've been really inconsistent with what I'm saying, so I'll have decklist up later today to give you a feel of what I want to achieve. Thank you for your time.
Thanks for the posting! Question: Why do you run Rakdos Charm? Having the Blood Crypt seems like a waste if it's the only card you use it for. Why not Nihil Spellbomb instead? It doesn't hit artifacts but draws you a card and essentially does what you want it to.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Don't be alarmed due to the lack of fetches, sure they would make my deck many times more efficent though.
The cards here I don't currently own are 1 KotR, the Dorans, Abrupt Decay, Murmuring Bosk and Tectonic Edge. I'm ordering them tonite, but before I do, I hope that you could quickly review this and recommend some replacements or improvements. Aside from this I'm picking up Elesh Norn for funzies.
Despite the hand distruption spells being budget, I believe my offensive field of Bladehold + Lingering Souls + Rancor fills the gap.
Magix/SSQ you've been a great help for a player trying to enter the comepetitive scene. Thank you for your help once again!
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Loxodon Smiter
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Hero of Bladehold
Other Spells: 17
2 Path to Exile
4 Go for the Throat
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Duress
3 Rancor
3 Lingering Souls
3 Murmuring Bosk
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
2 Temple Garden
1 Woodland Cemetary
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Treetop Village
1 Grim Backwoods
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Swamp
2 Phyrexian Crusader (He does well when tagged in)
2 Naturalize
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Raven's Crime (I mainboard these some days)
3 Life From the Loam (Board with Raven)
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Path to Exile