Aside from being a little heavy on cards for a control / midrange mirror it looks ok to me. What cards in particular did you want explanation on?
I'm a new player of Abzan and I'd like to study the strategy in terms of sideboard. I like that decklist and want to learn the typical sideboarding options. When should I board in those cards?
Here's some basic guidelines as to where I find these cards to be useful. Others will have different opinions and as always there's no hard rules on anything:
Grafdigger's Cage: dredge, collected company decks, snapcaster mage decks, nahiri decks Blessed Alliance: burn, deaths shadow Collective Brutality: burn, small zoo decks, collected company decks, decks where I need more discard - typically combo decks like ad nauseum Runed Halo: I've never been a huge fan, but I guess it has applications against scapeshift naming valakut? Also good against decks that typically put a single big threat on board - assume this pilot brings it in against deaths shadow. Stony Silence: affinity, Gx tron (if they can't cycle their eggs and maps they lose a ton of their consistency), lantern, passable vs eldrazi tron to cut out maps and walking ballista Flaying Tendrils: affinity, company decks, dredge, swarm strategies Maelstrom Pulse: general purpose when you need more removal, decks w tons of planeswalkers, decks w lingering souls or other token strategies Painful Truths: control decks, midrange decks Damnation: eldrazi decks, swarm strategies Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: midrange decks, control decks Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: dredge, company decks, mirror match, burn, non-token swarm decks to a degree Sigarda, Host of Herons: midrange decks, liliana of the veil decks, eldrazi decks (for all is dust), control decks
Here's some basic guidelines as to where I find these cards to be useful. Others will have different opinions and as always there's no hard rules on anything:
Grafdigger's Cage: dredge, collected company decks, snapcaster mage decks, nahiri decks Blessed Alliance: burn, deaths shadow Collective Brutality: burn, small zoo decks, collected company decks, decks where I need more discard - typically combo decks like ad nauseum Runed Halo: I've never been a huge fan, but I guess it has applications against scapeshift naming valakut? Also good against decks that typically put a single big threat on board - assume this pilot brings it in against deaths shadow. Stony Silence: affinity, Gx tron (if they can't cycle their eggs and maps they lose a ton of their consistency), lantern, passable vs eldrazi tron to cut out maps and walking ballista Flaying Tendrils: affinity, company decks, dredge, swarm strategies Maelstrom Pulse: general purpose when you need more removal, decks w tons of planeswalkers, decks w lingering souls or other token strategies Painful Truths: control decks, midrange decks Damnation: eldrazi decks, swarm strategies Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: midrange decks, control decks Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: dredge, company decks, mirror match, burn, non-token swarm decks to a degree Sigarda, Host of Herons: midrange decks, liliana of the veil decks, eldrazi decks (for all is dust), control decks
If I may, I'll add one things to the excellent list dcovino has thoughtfully provided.
Add Bogles to the Blessed Alliance list. Bogles could also be added to the Runed Halo list.
Halo is best at preventing damage from non-creature sources as removal is just better against creatures, but Halo can do the job against creatures too. It's worth noting that one Halo can neuter multiple creatures whereas a removal spell gets only one copy (usually).
Here's some basic guidelines as to where I find these cards to be useful. Others will have different opinions and as always there's no hard rules on anything:
Grafdigger's Cage: dredge, collected company decks, snapcaster mage decks, nahiri decks Blessed Alliance: burn, deaths shadow Collective Brutality: burn, small zoo decks, collected company decks, decks where I need more discard - typically combo decks like ad nauseum Runed Halo: I've never been a huge fan, but I guess it has applications against scapeshift naming valakut? Also good against decks that typically put a single big threat on board - assume this pilot brings it in against deaths shadow. Stony Silence: affinity, Gx tron (if they can't cycle their eggs and maps they lose a ton of their consistency), lantern, passable vs eldrazi tron to cut out maps and walking ballista Flaying Tendrils: affinity, company decks, dredge, swarm strategies Maelstrom Pulse: general purpose when you need more removal, decks w tons of planeswalkers, decks w lingering souls or other token strategies Painful Truths: control decks, midrange decks Damnation: eldrazi decks, swarm strategies Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: midrange decks, control decks Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: dredge, company decks, mirror match, burn, non-token swarm decks to a degree Sigarda, Host of Herons: midrange decks, liliana of the veil decks, eldrazi decks (for all is dust), control decks
If I may, I'll add one things to the excellent list dcovino has thoughtfully provided.
Add Bogles to the Blessed Alliance list. Bogles could also be added to the Runed Halo list.
Halo is best at preventing damage from non-creature sources as removal is just better against creatures, but Halo can do the job against creatures too. It's worth noting that one Halo can neuter multiple creatures whereas a removal spell gets only one copy (usually).
Good call on Bogles. I almost never see that deck in my area so I tend to forget it exists.
While I don't disagree with some of the sentiments about Abzan Traverse, I do want to point out a few pros about the deck for people wanting to look into it. The point of going delirium is to have less dead cards. Bauble, like Street Wraith, turns your deck into 56 cards. Traverse increases your Tarmogoyf count to 8 (or any bullet count to 5). Traverse, when used for lands, thins out your deck at the cost of tempo, and when your curve tops out at a singleton 4-drop, you can get away with a greedy mana base of 19-ish lands. This is the primary draw to the deck - eliminating bad topdecks. It is also largely the reason why Shadow decks are/were considered the best midrange decks, cause they could effectively execute the midrange gameplan off as little as 3 mana sources, while constantly topdecking into hyper-efficient 1-2cmc threats/answers. It's the true midrange dream.
Abzan Traverse gives up the power of Death's Shadow in exchange for more life and Lingering Souls. It's just as lean as the Shadow decks, but with an added layer of resilience. What most people here disagree with is the post-board opportunity cost. All of a sudden, Nihil Spellbomb and Rest In Peace are great versus 12 threats in your deck as opposed to the usual 7 (Goyfs & Flayers). The irony is that having bullets post-board may be hindered by the fact that you can't Traverse for it through graveyard hate.
All this said, I still think Abzan Traverse is really good. It feels good to play because it's much more lean when you shave 4 lands and run with 4 Baubles as cantrips. Because this archetype thrives on putting both you and your opponent into topdeck mode, being able to increase threats and decrease dead cards is a huge advantage.
So after a few months on Death's Shadow I'm back to Abzan once again. I'm liking the new look of the "standard" decklist and I feel like stepping away from Noble and Bob is a good thing in this metagame. This is what I'm on right now:
I'd love to find a spot for Flaying Tendrils in the sideboard, as I feel like I miss it in too many matchups, but I've been agonizing all week over what to cut for it.
Another matter I'm unsure of: how do you guys usually sideboard against Eldrazi Tron and the new blend of UWx control that's popular right now? Against Eldrazi I've been doing: -1 Brutality -1 Inquisition -3 Flayer, +1 Damnation +1 Gideon +2 Stony Silence +1 Maelstrom Pulse. Are Fulminators worth it? I feel lke it's only ever going to matter when they're mana screwed, and I've seen them flood way more than screw.
Against Jeskai (Spell Queller version), I'm not sure. I want to include: +3 Fulminator +1 LtlH +1 Gideon +2 Spellbomb, but I have no idea on what to cut. I'd start with all the Pushes and maybe a Path, but then what? If I board out the rest of the removal, I always die to Spell Queller beats and it gets harder to Liliana sac a Geist. Should I cut the Flayers, since they have so much burn, or is that crazy? Getting Flayer Electrolyzed feel bad.
For UW, I guess maybe the same as Jeskai except here I'd feel safer boarding out most of my removal (keeping in Decays for RIP and little Gideon). Maelstrom Pulse also seems much better here. Is Surgical worth it in any of these control matchups? It always feels like basically a waste of a card here (although I've had some success with it against UW in particular).
Quick report from my LGS weekly Modern (United Kingdom) event from yesterday. It was my third week playing with the BG deck (moved form Jund to Abzan and now BG). Deck felt great and played very nice. My LGS always has an ok number of players playing modern and the skill level is quite high. Yesterday we were 28 players and I finish 1st after going 4-0 and undefeated (all matches 2-0).
List as follows, any tips and bits of advice are welcome to improve and/or criticise it.
Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
2 Seal of Primordium
1st round against Boogles
- Was lucky, not gonna lie. I started the game and played: discard (creature), discard + discard (creature + enchant), Liliana veil and GG
- 2nd game was the same, bunch of discards followed by lilis and damnations. Tireless tracker was the MVP
2nd round against UB Mill
- both games were ok, punctual discards for the big mills and decays + pulses for the artifacts followed by bigs Goyfs for the win
3rd round again Storm
- Discard, Discard + push, Lili... GG
- Discard (Baral), Nihil spellbomb + discard (Gifts), Collective brutality (manamorphose) escalated (Goblin electromancer)... GG
4rd round again Kiki-chord
- The easiest match of the entire night. The amount of discards and removals in the main deck make it quite hard for them.
Thanks for the report. I usually find Kiki chord extremely difficult. The deck usually completely outvalues me until they combo for the win. Can you provide details on that matchup and your sideboard plan?
Heya, thanks for the reply.
I only played that matched 2 times, a previous week and also won.
I found that my configuration of the deck, at least in those matches, allowed me to keep them in check by basically allowing them to play all them "ramp" creatures and focusing my discards spell on Companies/Chords. After sideboarding it gets easier.
I normally bring in:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
1 Collective Brutality
Can someone explain to me why almost everyone doesn't play bob in abzan? I really don't get it.
I see a lot of pro's using bob in abzan, like duke and others, and yet the abzan meta seems to be way over 90% no bob lists.
I hear it all the time: 'oh you can't run bob because rhino is too painful' - yet nobody runs more than 2 4 drops anyway. All rock and jund lists run atleast 1 4 drop aswell (jund uses 2 a lot of times) and that doesn't stop them for using bob. In fact abzan is even better at life gain, since rhino immediately heals you for 3 when you cast it and in abzan you also have access to the life gain BW lands.
If you look at this image you can see that by cutting 1 souls and the flayers for confidant I fail to see how is it too painful to run bob in abzan?
As someone who is (very) slowly buying into the BGx shell, I've been wondering the same. Bob seems like a really great card and I would ideally like to play with him. Is he not in Abzan because those games tend to go longer as opposed to Jund which tries to close the game quicker?
Here's some basic guidelines as to where I find these cards to be useful. Others will have different opinions and as always there's no hard rules on anything:
CUT
Thank you very much for the explanation! Eventually, I bought that list and can't wait to try it with friends...
Can someone explain to me why almost everyone doesn't play bob in abzan? I really don't get it.
I see a lot of pro's using bob in abzan, like duke and others, and yet the abzan meta seems to be way over 90% no bob lists.
I hear it all the time: 'oh you can't run bob because rhino is too painful' - yet nobody runs more than 2 4 drops anyway. All rock and jund lists run atleast 1 4 drop aswell (jund uses 2 a lot of times) and that doesn't stop them for using bob. In fact abzan is even better at life gain, since rhino immediately heals you for 3 when you cast it and in abzan you also have access to the life gain BW lands.
If you look at this image you can see that by cutting 1 souls and the flayers for confidant I fail to see how is it too painful to run bob in abzan?
As someone who is (very) slowly buying into the BGx shell, I've been wondering the same. Bob seems like a really great card and I would ideally like to play with him. Is he not in Abzan because those games tend to go longer as opposed to Jund which tries to close the game quicker?
The reason that Dark Confidant is not as prevalent as it used to be is sort of twofold. The first reason is that Grim Flayer has taken its place in Junk lists and the second reason is that Junk is arguably more prevalent than Jund/The Rock right now (so Dark Confidant will show up less). I would argue that people who are saying the reason is due to Dark Confidant being too self damaging to run are not correct.
Dark Confidant is an amazing card and historically has been central to this deck archetype. However, metas are always evolving and different cards are being printed. Specifically, the combination of Grim Flayer and Tireless Tracker has given this archetype a new option for the role that Dark Confidant fills. Grim Flayer lets you filter cards and it gets big if you have delirium, while Tireless Tracker turns your end game land topdecks into card draw and gets bigger as you do it. Mostly, though, the focus is going to be on Grim Flayer with Tireless Tracker being a situationally used card.
So the question becomes, "okay, which ones are better?" and the answer seems to be that Grim Flayer is better in Junk shells. One of the main reasons for this is Lingering Souls. Throwing it into the graveyard does mean that you miss out on casting it twice, but at the same time you're still getting card advantage because you're able to put it in your graveyard and cast it while still drawing a different card next turn. When you're in top deck mode, that is half of an extra card and it is specifically one of the best cards in the deck that you're getting. As I said above, I do not believe that the reason is because of Siege Rhino or any other four CMC card; I believe it is almost entirely because of the synergy with Lingering Souls. The fact that Lingering Souls is white explains, in my opinion, why Grim Flayer is prevalent in Junk but Dark Confidant is still used in Jund and The Rock.
As I said above, I think it is situational as to whether Dark Confidant or Grim Flayer is better, but I think that there's empirical evidence to back up the fact that Grim Flayer works out very well in Junk. I outlined this above in a comment about Traverse vs regular Junk, but Grim Flayer is run in between 89% and 95% of Junk decks according to MTGTop8 and MTGgoldfish, respectively. To that extent, it isn't like people stopped running Dark Confidant randomly, they stopped running it when Grim Flayer was printed, so really the question should come down to analyzing which one is better. Jund is definitely more aggressive and wants to end the game faster, so actual card draw at the cost of life seems much better. Being able to throw away dead cards, order the rest of your draws and the occasional half card advantage with Lingering Souls are a lot better in the grindy endgame Junk wants.
There's also the fact that Grim Flayer is significantly cheaper (in terms of buying the card) than Dark Confidant. If you are buying into the BG/X shell, Grim Flayer is a great investment and can make throwing down $800 on Liliana of the Veils and Tarmogoyfs a lot easier since you don't also have to throw down $200 on Dark Confidants.
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Whatever the format, if BG/X midrange exists that is what I will be playing.
Is anyone still playing GB? Played in a PPTQ today, lost to Titanshift in both swiss and quarters. I played 3/1 GQ/Tec edge split with just a single surgical in the SB. Might try 4 Tec edge and 2 Surgicals, though I suspect the matchup is just bad regardless.
I play pure BG but my list is underperforming against a general meta. It's very good against certain decks like DS, Jund, Junk, Eldrazi, and so on. Basically against anything that plays to the board I feel favored. Against decks like Ad Nasueam and Scapeshift though, it feels hopeless. In fact I'm something like 0-15 in games against Scapeshift.
The PW selection feels off to me, I like 3 Veil's, but Garruk has only been moderately useful. He's either really good, or really bad and leans more towards really bad. Given the PW rule change I think I'll cut one and play a Last Hope MB, which will also free up a sideboard slot.
Ballista should not be under rated as a top deck. The math on it is crazy. Assuming the opponent has no blockers and you have 4 mana and a Hierarch on the board. You can play it for X=2, on the next turn add a counter and swing for 4. Add another counter on the next turn and swing for 5 (9). Next turn you represent lethal. By removing the counters at this point you can deal another 4 for 13. If the game has gone on for a bit, that's probably lethal on it's own. Of course, if the opponent plays their own creature, you can leverage those counters as removal and likely still keep something on the board. Ballista is also pretty excellent against PW's.
Hi, I'm new to the Rock. I've been trying to find a way to get 2-3 artifacts in my MD. Mishra's Bauble or Nihil Spellbomb are the looking like the way to go, but has anyone tried Executioner's Capsule? It's an Artifact and fits what the Rock is trying to do better than the previously mentioned cards. I'm running G/B currently with 2 Slaughter Pact's that have been hit or miss. Capsule feels like a natural replacement for the Pact's. Thanks!!
Hi, I'm new to the Rock. I've been trying to find a way to get 2-3 artifacts in my MD. Mishra's Bauble or Nihil Spellbomb are the looking like the way to go, but has anyone tried Executioner's Capsule? It's an Artifact and fits what the Rock is trying to do better than the previously mentioned cards. I'm running G/B currently with 2 Slaughter Pact's that have been hit or miss. Capsule feels like a natural replacement for the Pact's. Thanks!!
I ran an Executioner's Capsule main-deck for months alongside two copies of Glissa, the Traitor. I had an additional capsule side-board plus a copy of Engineered Explosives. It was occasionally back-breaking against things like Elves and occasionally useless. But I play only FNM and it was often a useful package for me.
Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter seems a bit odd as Edge seems useless against Tron; someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I don't like four copies of Hissing Quagmire. I tried it myself for some time and I think four is too many. I'd want a few more fetches especially with a full set of Fatal Push on board.
I still like Abrupt Decay, but four is definitely unusual in a deck these days. I'd probably run at least one copy of some removal that works on 5+ CMC in addition to the Maelstrom Pulses.
Four copies of Scooze seems excessive but I just seem to be griping now, don't I?
Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge has been a decision I have struggled with for a while. I have concluded that Tectonic Edge is often the better choice because it does not give the opponent a land in return when I am down a land (similar to the discussions regarding Path to Exile). And though you are not able to act until the fourth land hits the field, generally that means that the opponent may able to deploy a single threat (Karn Liberated or Wurmcoil Engine) and that threat can usually be dealt with accordingly. In matches against decks like Titanshift and control decks, depriving them of that single land can make a big difference in how the game plays out.
With regard to creatures, I have started running two Tireless Tracker and two Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the main, and reduced Scavenging Ooze down to two in total. In reality, you will find that these cards are dead in some match-ups, including Scavenging Ooze, but the three combined often cover most of what I need to accomplish.
As far as the one or two slots for removal, I alternate between Go for the Throat and Slaughter Pact in the main. Maelstrom Pulse is really the catch all card that more than pulls its weight, which is why I always have two in the main and now run in the side.
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He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”
Is anyone still playing GB? Played in a PPTQ today, lost to Titanshift in both swiss and quarters. I played 3/1 GQ/Tec edge split with just a single surgical in the SB. Might try 4 Tec edge and 2 Surgicals, though I suspect the matchup is just bad regardless.
Have you considered running Shadow of Doubt in the sideboard for that match-up? I think that the Tectonic Edge and Surgical Extraction are good as well. I have one in my side and have seen as many as 3 in recent Rock decklists.
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He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”
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I'm a new player of Abzan and I'd like to study the strategy in terms of sideboard. I like that decklist and want to learn the typical sideboarding options. When should I board in those cards?
Grafdigger's Cage: dredge, collected company decks, snapcaster mage decks, nahiri decks
Blessed Alliance: burn, deaths shadow
Collective Brutality: burn, small zoo decks, collected company decks, decks where I need more discard - typically combo decks like ad nauseum
Runed Halo: I've never been a huge fan, but I guess it has applications against scapeshift naming valakut? Also good against decks that typically put a single big threat on board - assume this pilot brings it in against deaths shadow.
Stony Silence: affinity, Gx tron (if they can't cycle their eggs and maps they lose a ton of their consistency), lantern, passable vs eldrazi tron to cut out maps and walking ballista
Flaying Tendrils: affinity, company decks, dredge, swarm strategies
Maelstrom Pulse: general purpose when you need more removal, decks w tons of planeswalkers, decks w lingering souls or other token strategies
Painful Truths: control decks, midrange decks
Damnation: eldrazi decks, swarm strategies
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: midrange decks, control decks
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet: dredge, company decks, mirror match, burn, non-token swarm decks to a degree
Sigarda, Host of Herons: midrange decks, liliana of the veil decks, eldrazi decks (for all is dust), control decks
If I may, I'll add one things to the excellent list dcovino has thoughtfully provided.
Add Bogles to the Blessed Alliance list. Bogles could also be added to the Runed Halo list.
Halo is best at preventing damage from non-creature sources as removal is just better against creatures, but Halo can do the job against creatures too. It's worth noting that one Halo can neuter multiple creatures whereas a removal spell gets only one copy (usually).
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Good call on Bogles. I almost never see that deck in my area so I tend to forget it exists.
Abzan Traverse gives up the power of Death's Shadow in exchange for more life and Lingering Souls. It's just as lean as the Shadow decks, but with an added layer of resilience. What most people here disagree with is the post-board opportunity cost. All of a sudden, Nihil Spellbomb and Rest In Peace are great versus 12 threats in your deck as opposed to the usual 7 (Goyfs & Flayers). The irony is that having bullets post-board may be hindered by the fact that you can't Traverse for it through graveyard hate.
All this said, I still think Abzan Traverse is really good. It feels good to play because it's much more lean when you shave 4 lands and run with 4 Baubles as cantrips. Because this archetype thrives on putting both you and your opponent into topdeck mode, being able to increase threats and decrease dead cards is a huge advantage.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Collective Brutality
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Thoughtseize
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
I'd love to find a spot for Flaying Tendrils in the sideboard, as I feel like I miss it in too many matchups, but I've been agonizing all week over what to cut for it.
Another matter I'm unsure of: how do you guys usually sideboard against Eldrazi Tron and the new blend of UWx control that's popular right now? Against Eldrazi I've been doing: -1 Brutality -1 Inquisition -3 Flayer, +1 Damnation +1 Gideon +2 Stony Silence +1 Maelstrom Pulse. Are Fulminators worth it? I feel lke it's only ever going to matter when they're mana screwed, and I've seen them flood way more than screw.
Against Jeskai (Spell Queller version), I'm not sure. I want to include: +3 Fulminator +1 LtlH +1 Gideon +2 Spellbomb, but I have no idea on what to cut. I'd start with all the Pushes and maybe a Path, but then what? If I board out the rest of the removal, I always die to Spell Queller beats and it gets harder to Liliana sac a Geist. Should I cut the Flayers, since they have so much burn, or is that crazy? Getting Flayer Electrolyzed feel bad.
For UW, I guess maybe the same as Jeskai except here I'd feel safer boarding out most of my removal (keeping in Decays for RIP and little Gideon). Maelstrom Pulse also seems much better here. Is Surgical worth it in any of these control matchups? It always feels like basically a waste of a card here (although I've had some success with it against UW in particular).
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
List as follows, any tips and bits of advice are welcome to improve and/or criticise it.
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hissing Quagmire
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
1 Windswept Heath
1 Twilight Mire
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Mishra's Bauble
Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
2 Seal of Primordium
1st round against Boogles
- Was lucky, not gonna lie. I started the game and played: discard (creature), discard + discard (creature + enchant), Liliana veil and GG
- 2nd game was the same, bunch of discards followed by lilis and damnations. Tireless tracker was the MVP
2nd round against UB Mill
- both games were ok, punctual discards for the big mills and decays + pulses for the artifacts followed by bigs Goyfs for the win
3rd round again Storm
- Discard, Discard + push, Lili... GG
- Discard (Baral), Nihil spellbomb + discard (Gifts), Collective brutality (manamorphose) escalated (Goblin electromancer)... GG
4rd round again Kiki-chord
- The easiest match of the entire night. The amount of discards and removals in the main deck make it quite hard for them.
PS: Sorry for my English, not my first language.
I only played that matched 2 times, a previous week and also won.
I found that my configuration of the deck, at least in those matches, allowed me to keep them in check by basically allowing them to play all them "ramp" creatures and focusing my discards spell on Companies/Chords. After sideboarding it gets easier.
I normally bring in:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Damnation
1 Collective Brutality
Taking out:
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Mishra's Bauble
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Scavenging Ooze
As someone who is (very) slowly buying into the BGx shell, I've been wondering the same. Bob seems like a really great card and I would ideally like to play with him. Is he not in Abzan because those games tend to go longer as opposed to Jund which tries to close the game quicker?
Thank you very much for the explanation! Eventually, I bought that list and can't wait to try it with friends...
The reason that Dark Confidant is not as prevalent as it used to be is sort of twofold. The first reason is that Grim Flayer has taken its place in Junk lists and the second reason is that Junk is arguably more prevalent than Jund/The Rock right now (so Dark Confidant will show up less). I would argue that people who are saying the reason is due to Dark Confidant being too self damaging to run are not correct.
Dark Confidant is an amazing card and historically has been central to this deck archetype. However, metas are always evolving and different cards are being printed. Specifically, the combination of Grim Flayer and Tireless Tracker has given this archetype a new option for the role that Dark Confidant fills. Grim Flayer lets you filter cards and it gets big if you have delirium, while Tireless Tracker turns your end game land topdecks into card draw and gets bigger as you do it. Mostly, though, the focus is going to be on Grim Flayer with Tireless Tracker being a situationally used card.
So the question becomes, "okay, which ones are better?" and the answer seems to be that Grim Flayer is better in Junk shells. One of the main reasons for this is Lingering Souls. Throwing it into the graveyard does mean that you miss out on casting it twice, but at the same time you're still getting card advantage because you're able to put it in your graveyard and cast it while still drawing a different card next turn. When you're in top deck mode, that is half of an extra card and it is specifically one of the best cards in the deck that you're getting. As I said above, I do not believe that the reason is because of Siege Rhino or any other four CMC card; I believe it is almost entirely because of the synergy with Lingering Souls. The fact that Lingering Souls is white explains, in my opinion, why Grim Flayer is prevalent in Junk but Dark Confidant is still used in Jund and The Rock.
As I said above, I think it is situational as to whether Dark Confidant or Grim Flayer is better, but I think that there's empirical evidence to back up the fact that Grim Flayer works out very well in Junk. I outlined this above in a comment about Traverse vs regular Junk, but Grim Flayer is run in between 89% and 95% of Junk decks according to MTGTop8 and MTGgoldfish, respectively. To that extent, it isn't like people stopped running Dark Confidant randomly, they stopped running it when Grim Flayer was printed, so really the question should come down to analyzing which one is better. Jund is definitely more aggressive and wants to end the game faster, so actual card draw at the cost of life seems much better. Being able to throw away dead cards, order the rest of your draws and the occasional half card advantage with Lingering Souls are a lot better in the grindy endgame Junk wants.
There's also the fact that Grim Flayer is significantly cheaper (in terms of buying the card) than Dark Confidant. If you are buying into the BG/X shell, Grim Flayer is a great investment and can make throwing down $800 on Liliana of the Veils and Tarmogoyfs a lot easier since you don't also have to throw down $200 on Dark Confidants.
BGObsidian Shards (Obliterator Rock)GB
BGRBuring Blood (Jund)RGB
BGR Bloodlust (Jund) RGB
BGW Mystic Stylez of the Liquid Swords (Junk Blade) WGB
I play pure BG but my list is underperforming against a general meta. It's very good against certain decks like DS, Jund, Junk, Eldrazi, and so on. Basically against anything that plays to the board I feel favored. Against decks like Ad Nasueam and Scapeshift though, it feels hopeless. In fact I'm something like 0-15 in games against Scapeshift.
Here's what I've been playing
4 Blooming Marsh
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Treetop Village
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Twilight Mire
2 Walking Ballista
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Flayer
2 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
Spells 14
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
1 Rancor
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Garruk Relentless
Artifact 2
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
The PW selection feels off to me, I like 3 Veil's, but Garruk has only been moderately useful. He's either really good, or really bad and leans more towards really bad. Given the PW rule change I think I'll cut one and play a Last Hope MB, which will also free up a sideboard slot.
Ballista should not be under rated as a top deck. The math on it is crazy. Assuming the opponent has no blockers and you have 4 mana and a Hierarch on the board. You can play it for X=2, on the next turn add a counter and swing for 4. Add another counter on the next turn and swing for 5 (9). Next turn you represent lethal. By removing the counters at this point you can deal another 4 for 13. If the game has gone on for a bit, that's probably lethal on it's own. Of course, if the opponent plays their own creature, you can leverage those counters as removal and likely still keep something on the board. Ballista is also pretty excellent against PW's.
I ran an Executioner's Capsule main-deck for months alongside two copies of Glissa, the Traitor. I had an additional capsule side-board plus a copy of Engineered Explosives. It was occasionally back-breaking against things like Elves and occasionally useless. But I play only FNM and it was often a useful package for me.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter seems a bit odd as Edge seems useless against Tron; someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I don't like four copies of Hissing Quagmire. I tried it myself for some time and I think four is too many. I'd want a few more fetches especially with a full set of Fatal Push on board.
I still like Abrupt Decay, but four is definitely unusual in a deck these days. I'd probably run at least one copy of some removal that works on 5+ CMC in addition to the Maelstrom Pulses.
Four copies of Scooze seems excessive but I just seem to be griping now, don't I?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
A few people, myself included, discussed this topic about a page back
BGObsidian Shards (Obliterator Rock)GB
BGRBuring Blood (Jund)RGB
BGR Bloodlust (Jund) RGB
BGW Mystic Stylez of the Liquid Swords (Junk Blade) WGB
With regard to creatures, I have started running two Tireless Tracker and two Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the main, and reduced Scavenging Ooze down to two in total. In reality, you will find that these cards are dead in some match-ups, including Scavenging Ooze, but the three combined often cover most of what I need to accomplish.
As far as the one or two slots for removal, I alternate between Go for the Throat and Slaughter Pact in the main. Maelstrom Pulse is really the catch all card that more than pulls its weight, which is why I always have two in the main and now run in the side.
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”
Have you considered running Shadow of Doubt in the sideboard for that match-up? I think that the Tectonic Edge and Surgical Extraction are good as well. I have one in my side and have seen as many as 3 in recent Rock decklists.
Modern: BG Rock, Grixis Control, UW Control
Commander: Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
"Win or lose, naught to choose - all men are equal when their memory fades. No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave." - Motörhead “Deaf Forever”