Problem is, its 4 mana for 4/5. At that time, ppl can have bigger threats on board that rhino cant handle like shadow, reality smasher.. Creatures have gotten bigger and Rhino stayed the same. I would play it in aggro heavy meta however.
Im running:
4x Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Ooze
2x Grim Flayer
I could see replacing 2 Flayers for 2 Trackers if i was bothered by EE on 2. But meh.
The reason to run Abzan over Jund is Lingering Souls which is better vs any control deck or Grixis DS deck. And you have the edge against Jund. For every other matchup I personally am on the Jund side. If I would build Abzan, I would also go with Reids approach. Getting access to Treetop is insane.
Except:
- im running 24 lands (i line 24 lands with bobs, since they draw us more cards than we would usual)
- im running 4 blood marshes
- im running 1 Treetop, 2 Vents
- since i run 5 lilianas, same as Flygin Delver, i reduced my Souls count to 3. I Feel thats enough, especially with so many storm and tron decks around (where i would side them out)
- i dont run 2 spellbomb main
Sweet list!
PS. i am buying now 4 Raging Ravines and 4 Blackcleave Cliffs, since i secretly hope they unban BBE ^^
The reason to run Abzan over Jund is Lingering Souls which is better vs any control deck or Grixis DS deck. And you have the edge against Jund. For every other matchup I personally am on the Jund side. If I would build Abzan, I would also go with Reids approach. Getting access to Treetop is insane.
Does anyone still run the 2016 World's CFB Abzan List anymore? With the 3x Noble Hierarchs and lower land count? The last time I saw the deck put up results was last February by Patrick Tilsen at the SCG Modern Open. Any benefits to running this version of the deck nowadays?
Does anyone still run the 2016 World's CFB Abzan List anymore? With the 3x Noble Hierarchs and lower land count? The last time I saw the deck put up results was last February by Patrick Tilsen at the SCG Modern Open. Any benefits to running this version of the deck nowadays?
The only benefit I see is you can turn 2 liliana and your solo attacking tarmo is bigger.. I think that’s all?
Edit: and Noble Hierarch is a fatal push magnet too?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Deck(s): TappedOut Would love to have more input to improve!
While I would love to play a big, clunky Jund list like that I don't think that's viable in an open meta. Your manlands aren't correct either, 3x stirring wildwood is something I have never seen in Junk, and to not run Gavony is such a mistake. You have too many creatures, Scooze was a 2x in those lists and is a late game card, running 3x doesn't really make the curve lower.
I think your spell base is pretty much how I would build the deck though.
Big mana is over 10% of the meta, running no Fulms is a massive mistake.
I agree about the Noble builds, I HATED it. Noble made turn 1 discard more awkward, now I had to decide on a turn 1 tapped land, a noble or discard. Unless that mana dork is DRS then no thanks.
It was SUCH a bad topdeck, yes, we cut lands to 22 I think, but with the 3x Nobles it was like running 25 lands.
Grim does not impress me, he's often just a 2/2 that dies immediately or is quickly walled off.
I've been playing straight Rock with some very good results. I took the deck to the Roanoke Open and hadn't had more than 3 events with it. I went 6-1-2 on day 1 and then had other outside external issues make me not play right day 2. I talked to Sol Malka(creator of Rock) prior to the Open.
He made a lot of valid points regarding card choice. His exact 75 have had 5-0s in mtgo leagues recently and did well in a challenge.
I think the correct form in the meta is two color versus jund or abzan. Kalitas has been super impressive that I run a 2nd in board for affinity, creature decks, and eldrazi tron. Also eldrazi tron is a 50/50 matchup for me since I've been playing that a lot. I have over 50 games pre and post against eldrazi, affinity, midrange, & shadow.
One thing I'm debating changing is cutting the traverse package for more discard main and removal. Also considering testing a chameleon colossus over the 2nd Kalitas in the board. I've cut shadow of doubt because it's been underwhelming. I also think two brutality is too many main that might turn into a 3rd push. I might move the 2nd brutality to board with 3rd.
I don't understand the hate on path to exile. Path is a big add to the rock shell.
Path negatively contributes to the resource denial plan, which we are essentially trying to do with our interaction. I personally really don't like Path and am definitely on Reid Duke's side here, but I also can't bring myself over not playing any copy, since it deals with many problematic stuff already mentioned.
I've been playing straight Rock with some very good results. I took the deck to the Roanoke Open and hadn't had more than 3 events with it. I went 6-1-2 on day 1 and then had other outside external issues make me not play right day 2. I talked to Sol Malka(creator of Rock) prior to the Open.
He made a lot of valid points regarding card choice. His exact 75 have had 5-0s in mtgo leagues recently and did well in a challenge.
I think the correct form in the meta is two color versus jund or abzan. Kalitas has been super impressive that I run a 2nd in board for affinity, creature decks, and eldrazi tron. Also eldrazi tron is a 50/50 matchup for me since I've been playing that a lot. I have over 50 games pre and post against eldrazi, affinity, midrange, & shadow.
One thing I'm debating changing is cutting the traverse package for more discard main and removal. Also considering testing a chameleon colossus over the 2nd Kalitas in the board. I've cut shadow of doubt because it's been underwhelming. I also think two brutality is too many main that might turn into a 3rd push. I might move the 2nd brutality to board with 3rd.
I'll post a list upon request.
I would be glad to see a list since I've been playing BG Rock too although very little so far. May give it more attention in the future.
There has been a list finishing two times 5-0 from today and yesterday
Alyius, I thought you gave up on jund and junk and went on the Grixis Shadow plan?
I'll be honest, my results with Grixis Shadow are awful, I don't think I'm good enough to play the deck.
I played a few versions of Junk today
the 3/3 grim and bob split with a typical list
The Centralized list
Lingering souls can be such a crippling card to draw when you're up against combo or aggro. I feel like I'm always 1 or 2 removal short with junk when I need it.
I'm going to keep testing Reid's version of junk, I wasn't feeling good about path in most games.
Liliana, the last hope is also great against any control deck.
Jammed my list today I posted earlier, went 4-1, beating Grixis Control, U Tron, Jeskai Geist and Burn. Only lost to a Jeskai Flyer deck, which was a huge pile of annoying stuff like Mantis Rider, Lightning Angel, Spell Queller and so on. Lingering Souls is exceptively bad here. And I had not enough removal to keep up with their threats.
How would the best creature setup look like in that case?
Problem is, its 4 mana for 4/5. At that time, ppl can have bigger threats on board that rhino cant handle like shadow, reality smasher.. Creatures have gotten bigger and Rhino stayed the same. I would play it in aggro heavy meta however.
Im running:
4x Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Ooze
2x Grim Flayer
I could see replacing 2 Flayers for 2 Trackers if i was bothered by EE on 2. But meh.
Creaturebase was inspired by Reid Duke's Article here: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/thoughtseizes-and-fatal-pushes-part-ii-abzan/
However, i do play 2 Paths.
I guess i like the consistent reliable turn 2 creature.
Most people as far as i know play 3 flayer, 2 tracker, 4 goyf, 2 ooze, 2 rhino though...
But bobs..<3
My list would be:
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tireless Tracker
Land
2 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Windswept Heath
2 Shambling Vent
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Collective Brutality
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Lingering Souls
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Except:
- im running 24 lands (i line 24 lands with bobs, since they draw us more cards than we would usual)
- im running 4 blood marshes
- im running 1 Treetop, 2 Vents
- since i run 5 lilianas, same as Flygin Delver, i reduced my Souls count to 3. I Feel thats enough, especially with so many storm and tron decks around (where i would side them out)
- i dont run 2 spellbomb main
Sweet list!
PS. i am buying now 4 Raging Ravines and 4 Blackcleave Cliffs, since i secretly hope they unban BBE ^^
This was like the 70 of 75 I played last Friday
I don't even know what the creature base for Abzan should even look like nowadays, it all seems so subjective.
The "centralized" list still plays 2x Rhinos and 2x Trackers.
Me neither. Bob is amazing. And so is treetop.
The only benefit I see is you can turn 2 liliana and your solo attacking tarmo is bigger.. I think that’s all?
Edit: and Noble Hierarch is a fatal push magnet too?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Creature [13]
4x Dark Confidant
3x Grim Flayer
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Tarmogoyf
Planeswalker [5]
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Instant [7]
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
2x Path to Exile
Sorcery [12]
1x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Swamp
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Shambling Vent
1x Temple Garden
2x Treetop Village
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Nihil Spellbomb
3x Fulminator Mage
3x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
1x Flaying Tendrils
This is what I’m playing, pretty stock I think? What do you all think? Would love to get some feedback.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
I think your spell base is pretty much how I would build the deck though.
Big mana is over 10% of the meta, running no Fulms is a massive mistake.
It was SUCH a bad topdeck, yes, we cut lands to 22 I think, but with the 3x Nobles it was like running 25 lands.
Grim does not impress me, he's often just a 2/2 that dies immediately or is quickly walled off.
Junk is definitely less agree'd upon than Jund.
He made a lot of valid points regarding card choice. His exact 75 have had 5-0s in mtgo leagues recently and did well in a challenge.
I think the correct form in the meta is two color versus jund or abzan. Kalitas has been super impressive that I run a 2nd in board for affinity, creature decks, and eldrazi tron. Also eldrazi tron is a 50/50 matchup for me since I've been playing that a lot. I have over 50 games pre and post against eldrazi, affinity, midrange, & shadow.
One thing I'm debating changing is cutting the traverse package for more discard main and removal. Also considering testing a chameleon colossus over the 2nd Kalitas in the board. I've cut shadow of doubt because it's been underwhelming. I also think two brutality is too many main that might turn into a 3rd push. I might move the 2nd brutality to board with 3rd.
I'll post a list upon request.
Path negatively contributes to the resource denial plan, which we are essentially trying to do with our interaction. I personally really don't like Path and am definitely on Reid Duke's side here, but I also can't bring myself over not playing any copy, since it deals with many problematic stuff already mentioned.
Its just a double edged sword.
Add both?
There has been a list finishing two times 5-0 from today and yesterday
I'll be honest, my results with Grixis Shadow are awful, I don't think I'm good enough to play the deck.
I played a few versions of Junk today
the 3/3 grim and bob split with a typical list
The Centralized list
Lingering souls can be such a crippling card to draw when you're up against combo or aggro. I feel like I'm always 1 or 2 removal short with junk when I need it.
I'm going to keep testing Reid's version of junk, I wasn't feeling good about path in most games.
what's the list?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Jammed my list today I posted earlier, went 4-1, beating Grixis Control, U Tron, Jeskai Geist and Burn. Only lost to a Jeskai Flyer deck, which was a huge pile of annoying stuff like Mantis Rider, Lightning Angel, Spell Queller and so on. Lingering Souls is exceptively bad here. And I had not enough removal to keep up with their threats.