Doesn't Blood Moon absolutely screw Jeskai, too? You're cutting them off major mana to use in one turn. I haven't been playing much Jund lately so I'm asking honestly.
Also, DeFish, are you still on DSJ? I played it on Friday, went 3-1 at my FNM. Decided to bring Junk Last night and that was the better call, I think I would have gone home at 0-2 based off what was being played.
I definitely can see the merits of this list. I like the fact that it max's out on its best cards, including the 8 discard spells, making it rather consistent. I also thought about ramping up the numbers of my 1cc discard spells, but left this idea for another day. Moreover, dismissing white makes a) the manabase a lot less painful and b) more resilent against blood moon. a) makes Confidant a lot better and probably even dismember viable. However, 4 Field of Ruin is probably what sets our list most appart. E-Tron and Tron were really prevalent. During the rounds I heard someone say tron decks make up to 11% of the field (I did not verify this number). Even though I dont know exactly against which types of decks the above mentioned list was paired, but I can very well imagine that field of ruins was put to good use With tracker field of ruin becomes even stronger. Hissing Quaqmire was probably played due to the fact that produces both colors needed, besides this I can only imagine very view scenarios where quagmire is better than treetop village. I even considered playing village in my abzan list, but dismissed this choice to due my double-gideon sb plan (which kind of demand w/x manlands). I always found quagmire the least impressive manland..
Concerning Lingering Souls: If I wouldn't play PtE I probably wouldn't play lingering souls either. In my opinion you should either play both or none. Splashing just for souls and probably stony silence isn't worth it. Saying this sounds somewhat weird to me because in at least two games Souls was my most wanted card. I am fairly certain that I would have won both of these games if I had found a single copy in my top 30 cards. Yes there are some MU's where souls it at best medicore, but usually I was quite happy to see it all day.. but my experience might be somewhat biased since I was in the drawbracket after round 3. I can very well imagine that souls is better against decks that are more prone to ties... also souls is likely to be the worest card to flip with a confidant. It always makes me sad. The impact of souls is just not worth paying 3 life. Not playing any souls does "mitigate" this risk.
Yes, Tron was 11 % of the metagame and the most played deck type, you can check in on their coverage site.
Quagmire was used to have the black requirements covered yeah. Treetop is miles better, but with 4 Field of Ruin, its hard to fulfill all the black requirements and still play Treetop. I also think Quagmire is in general a weak manland, but its probably the best concerning mana fixing at this point.
Whats the reason you would run Souls only with Path? You said that Souls is the card you wanted most sometimes, doesnt connect to path then. I think Souls just is very good to make opposing Lilis and single target removal bad. Thats why I am very surprized this BG Rock list won, but there must be something to it.
This also brought me to the idea to run the strengths of this Rock list and just make a micro splash for Souls only, to still have that covered. Don't know if it'll work, but then we would have a similar approach to what Reid Duke has made, and I think nobody can say Reid Duke's approaches are bad.
Basically the only fact I am curious about is whether the Field of Ruin package or the Treetop + Grim Flayer package from Reid Duke is better.
Doesn't Blood Moon absolutely screw Jeskai, too? You're cutting them off major mana to use in one turn. I haven't been playing much Jund lately so I'm asking honestly.
Also, DeFish, are you still on DSJ? I played it on Friday, went 3-1 at my FNM. Decided to bring Junk Last night and that was the better call, I think I would have gone home at 0-2 based off what was being played.
My experience with Blood Moon against Jeskai is that they make better use of the red mana and are generally able to get to their basics better than Jund can. It's also something that will only work in one game, and I usually expect to play all 3 against them because half of our main deck is dead cards in game 1. I'm not saying that Blood Moon can't win you games against them, but it's not my preferred strategy.
I haven't played in paper since the SCG Invitational, but I've been bouncing around a few different Death Shadow lists online to generally "okay" results. The meta there has been super grindy lately and I don't feel like investing the extra $150 to play Abzan, so I've been trying to find a shadow build that works in that world.
Midrange. Unfortunately, the last 2 Liliana of the Veil and Fulminators aren't really optional, in my opinion. Actually, that's probably a little more than $150.
I agree that DSJ hasn't felt great online because the meta there has slowed down a bunch, but I think it's only a matter of time before people bust out the Tron lands and start to lay down the law. The cyclical nature of Modern over the past year has been really interesting to be a part of, I was very spoiled by Jund being a perennial Tier 1 deck for the first two years I was playing.
I imagine in about twoish Opens or so big mana is going to make a big comeback.
Did you sell LOTV and fulminators to buy into Shadow or something?
Yeah, we were spoiled with Jund being so good for two years.
I've been testing with all types of Jund and Junk decks. Testing for the Open in Philly at the end of this month. I expect to scrub out and go like 1-3 before dropping but it'd be fun to go to
I definitely can see the merits of this list. I like the fact that it max's out on its best cards, including the 8 discard spells, making it rather consistent. I also thought about ramping up the numbers of my 1cc discard spells, but left this idea for another day. Moreover, dismissing white makes a) the manabase a lot less painful and b) more resilent against blood moon. a) makes Confidant a lot better and probably even dismember viable. However, 4 Field of Ruin is probably what sets our list most appart. E-Tron and Tron were really prevalent. During the rounds I heard someone say tron decks make up to 11% of the field (I did not verify this number). Even though I dont know exactly against which types of decks the above mentioned list was paired, but I can very well imagine that field of ruins was put to good use With tracker field of ruin becomes even stronger. Hissing Quaqmire was probably played due to the fact that produces both colors needed, besides this I can only imagine very view scenarios where quagmire is better than treetop village. I even considered playing village in my abzan list, but dismissed this choice to due my double-gideon sb plan (which kind of demand w/x manlands). I always found quagmire the least impressive manland..
Concerning Lingering Souls: If I wouldn't play PtE I probably wouldn't play lingering souls either. In my opinion you should either play both or none. Splashing just for souls and probably stony silence isn't worth it. Saying this sounds somewhat weird to me because in at least two games Souls was my most wanted card. I am fairly certain that I would have won both of these games if I had found a single copy in my top 30 cards. Yes there are some MU's where souls it at best medicore, but usually I was quite happy to see it all day.. but my experience might be somewhat biased since I was in the drawbracket after round 3. I can very well imagine that souls is better against decks that are more prone to ties... also souls is likely to be the worest card to flip with a confidant. It always makes me sad. The impact of souls is just not worth paying 3 life. Not playing any souls does "mitigate" this risk.
Yes, Tron was 11 % of the metagame and the most played deck type, you can check in on their coverage site.
Quagmire was used to have the black requirements covered yeah. Treetop is miles better, but with 4 Field of Ruin, its hard to fulfill all the black requirements and still play Treetop. I also think Quagmire is in general a weak manland, but its probably the best concerning mana fixing at this point.
Whats the reason you would run Souls only with Path? You said that Souls is the card you wanted most sometimes, doesnt connect to path then. I think Souls just is very good to make opposing Lilis and single target removal bad. Thats why I am very surprized this BG Rock list won, but there must be something to it.
This also brought me to the idea to run the strengths of this Rock list and just make a micro splash for Souls only, to still have that covered. Don't know if it'll work, but then we would have a similar approach to what Reid Duke has made, and I think nobody can say Reid Duke's approaches are bad.
Basically the only fact I am curious about is whether the Field of Ruin package or the Treetop + Grim Flayer package from Reid Duke is better.
Other than mana fixing, Quagmire can stall big creatures from attacking with which BG Rocks lacks efficient removal. A 3/1 or 2/2 split with Treetop would probably be still okay.
How do you like Kalitas? Would you swap it with another tracker? I like your list btw
Haven't tested the list yet, but will report on him when I get the chance. This is just from my mind now, with basic calculations on the manabase and basic thought processes for the metagame.
That being said, Kalitas could very well also be a second Tracker. Testing will tell if I need him or not.
However, I am starting to second guess myself and might prefer playing Abzan for the event. I have not visited Abzan in a long time, but this is the list I was thinking about running. Just wanted to get opinions on what people think should be changed. Thanks http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-01-18-abzan/
The main event is team, but there are still lots of side events.
Yea I am more comfortable with Jund, but I figured both BGx decks would function similarly enough where I could do well with few reps. However, I could be horribly wrong.
I had no problem when I originally transitioned from Jund to Junk, and that was when the lists were still different and I was on a Noble Hierarch/Grim Flayer build. You have to be a little more conservative with your removal with Junk than Jund, but aside from that the matchups largely play out in a very similar fashion. How much are you realistically expecting to be able to play before the tournament?
Go with your gut, man. If you perform really poorly at the Open you'll be pissed you listened to a bunch of players you don't even know. Get your playtesting in and see what feels right.
On another note, I HATED the noble/grim build. I actually think I have a losing record with that deck.
On another note, I HATED the noble/grim build. I actually think I have a losing record with that deck.
Seriously, screw that version of Abzan.
I can't even express how much I HATED Noble Abzan!
I sleeved up Rabble Jund, but I'm looking to sleeve up Junk right now as well. For those of you running Path, how many did you end up fitting in ? I really like Reid's Abzan list from his article, the manabase is smooth but I feel like having atleast two Path in the 75 would be nice.
Also, DeFish, are you still on DSJ? I played it on Friday, went 3-1 at my FNM. Decided to bring Junk Last night and that was the better call, I think I would have gone home at 0-2 based off what was being played.
Yes, Tron was 11 % of the metagame and the most played deck type, you can check in on their coverage site.
Quagmire was used to have the black requirements covered yeah. Treetop is miles better, but with 4 Field of Ruin, its hard to fulfill all the black requirements and still play Treetop. I also think Quagmire is in general a weak manland, but its probably the best concerning mana fixing at this point.
Whats the reason you would run Souls only with Path? You said that Souls is the card you wanted most sometimes, doesnt connect to path then. I think Souls just is very good to make opposing Lilis and single target removal bad. Thats why I am very surprized this BG Rock list won, but there must be something to it.
This also brought me to the idea to run the strengths of this Rock list and just make a micro splash for Souls only, to still have that covered. Don't know if it'll work, but then we would have a similar approach to what Reid Duke has made, and I think nobody can say Reid Duke's approaches are bad.
Basically the only fact I am curious about is whether the Field of Ruin package or the Treetop + Grim Flayer package from Reid Duke is better.
My experience with Blood Moon against Jeskai is that they make better use of the red mana and are generally able to get to their basics better than Jund can. It's also something that will only work in one game, and I usually expect to play all 3 against them because half of our main deck is dead cards in game 1. I'm not saying that Blood Moon can't win you games against them, but it's not my preferred strategy.
I haven't played in paper since the SCG Invitational, but I've been bouncing around a few different Death Shadow lists online to generally "okay" results. The meta there has been super grindy lately and I don't feel like investing the extra $150 to play Abzan, so I've been trying to find a shadow build that works in that world.
DSJ doesn't feel well positioned right now to me.
I am not improving in grixis Shadow and already sold it off on mtgo (have it in paper though).
I agree that DSJ hasn't felt great online because the meta there has slowed down a bunch, but I think it's only a matter of time before people bust out the Tron lands and start to lay down the law. The cyclical nature of Modern over the past year has been really interesting to be a part of, I was very spoiled by Jund being a perennial Tier 1 deck for the first two years I was playing.
I imagine in about twoish Opens or so big mana is going to make a big comeback.
Did you sell LOTV and fulminators to buy into Shadow or something?
Yeah, we were spoiled with Jund being so good for two years.
I've been testing with all types of Jund and Junk decks. Testing for the Open in Philly at the end of this month. I expect to scrub out and go like 1-3 before dropping but it'd be fun to go to
I completely forgot about the Open, the convention center is only about an hour from me so I may head out to play in the Classic.
I gave up on Grixis Shadow, I'm not good enough to play it.
I dabble in some DSJ. The 5 color is kind of a mess though, there's way too much variance in the color you need.
I made some adjustments to my list from yesterday, I should now have a stable and consistant manabase:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tireless Tracker
Land
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Hissing Quagmire
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Field of Ruin
4 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
Sorcery
4 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Haven't tested the list yet, but will report on him when I get the chance. This is just from my mind now, with basic calculations on the manabase and basic thought processes for the metagame.
That being said, Kalitas could very well also be a second Tracker. Testing will tell if I need him or not.
I am heading to Philly for the team open in two weeks and was planning on running this list of Jund: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-01-18-Ieb-jund/
However, I am starting to second guess myself and might prefer playing Abzan for the event. I have not visited Abzan in a long time, but this is the list I was thinking about running. Just wanted to get opinions on what people think should be changed. Thanks http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-01-18-abzan/
I'm always hesitant to recommend a player to play something they don't have the reps with.
There's a few versions of Abzan nowadays but it's one of the stock lists.
I'd say this---better to play the deck positioned worse than to play a deck you aren't comfortable with.
Yea I am more comfortable with Jund, but I figured both BGx decks would function similarly enough where I could do well with few reps. However, I could be horribly wrong.
On another note, I HATED the noble/grim build. I actually think I have a losing record with that deck.
Seriously, screw that version of Abzan.
I can't even express how much I HATED Noble Abzan!
I sleeved up Rabble Jund, but I'm looking to sleeve up Junk right now as well. For those of you running Path, how many did you end up fitting in ? I really like Reid's Abzan list from his article, the manabase is smooth but I feel like having atleast two Path in the 75 would be nice.
BG/x BG