Not sure on field- one of the very, very best land destruction cards is not land destruction at all- Suppression Field- it nerfs those fetches- 2 mana to pop slows the hell out of them, and allows you to stop the "end of turn fetch" plan they try and use to escape the sorcery speed land destruction. SF just about works with a Crucible/GQ package, and of course GQ is good with the ever present all-star Mindcensor, and with Boom/Bust in mini mode, targeting a GQ on our side that gets popped- providing SF does not say "no". Sf is such a nonbo with Field I have some doubts about the two of them together.
Incidentally, I don't use SSG in landkill, hitting t2 landkill or t1 s field is strong, of course, and SSG really helps. Generally it works best in the metas where U counterspell heavy decks are present, allowing landkill to slip in and the SF to hurt their ability to counterspell, but if U decks are not about I find it is not as good as it hurts the grindy Jund type matches. It is a big shame as these two decks are the weakest for landkill, and SSG helps one match whilst hurting the other, with combo-ing decks and cheaty decks the easiest match up.
Your idea may work of course, I am simply referring to my build and the card, and time will tell. I turned down the option of a pptq with landkill yesterday as my meta had become very counterspell and discard heavy, and I felt that another deck would be more effective- as it happened the meta was totally different and I regretted my choice as soon as I saw the whole room in action, although it did me no harm to play a more aggressive deck for once, many people are aware of my preferences, and often take land-heavy or slow hands against me assuming I am on some kind of prison deck. One thing is for certain- Sun and Moon PW control would have been very weak in this meta, I think the only Nahiri deck was URW and it finished last with 0 points 0-4 drop.
I never got into Suppression Field because it shuts off so many of our own finishers. My favorite choice out of what's left would be Assemble the Legion, but GQ and Boom // Bust can make it difficult to reach 5 mana.
I love symmetric world effects but I don't want to grind every game down into dust. If I can manage it, my ideal would be to have cards playing different roles in different matchups.
My favorite deck of all time was primarily a lockdown deck, but a significant number of my wins were tempo wins behind Mishra's Factory. Mishra's factory is a great example of what I mean. It was a great blocker against aggro, (This was a pretty long time ago, when Savannah Lion was really the only one-drop that traded with it) it was a very challenging tempo threat for control decks to deal with, and it finished the job against mid-range.
Then land destruction/ponza started to show up more frequently, and also some of the early combos like necropotence. Not to mention the rules changes that hit icy manipulator and the overall power creep.
I guess what I'm saying is that what I want to play might not be viable, and Suppression Field might be viable but I can't see how it would help me play the sort of deck that i want to play. So I'll acknowledge it's usefulness but continue to not use it.
Not really, it depends on what you mean by "more", or course. There are a limited number of win the game slots, which is what PWs basically do. Most of the deck needs focusing on control, which Gideon does help with as well as being a threat. But I can't see a team of Gideons.
That said Gideon of the Trials and Gideon Jura have proven themselves to be very much Modern quality, I doubt if the PW rule ever impacted much on selection of PWs but if you mean can you include 1 or 2 GJ and 1 or 2 GOTT in the same deck, well yes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Well Chalice + bolt is a bit of a nonbo, and it is not really a prison build as there are very few prison cards in it, and obviously it s RB not RW. Obviously too the mana is sub-optimal, but you probably know that. If its for casual it does not really matter, for FNM- well I would not expect to get very far with it if your FNM has recognised decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
An upcoming rule change has been leaked that will affect most RW prison lists- planeswalker redirection will go. So no more Leyline protecting the planeswalkers from bolts. This change is discussed in the rumour mill but it seems legit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I doubt people sold their decks, but the movement between the two sub-fora is probably bad for business. Some people will have been specifically attracted to the deck when Todd S played it and will have traded out, but the reality is the RW prison concept was around and popping up from time to time in various SCG level events at a low incidence, so the deck will remain solid in play terms, and the cards $$$ values are largely unaltered. Todd S' success also drew in a lot of people who want a finished product, who are happy to discuss the 72nd and 59th card slots, but who don't really do much other than discuss results or give their own, so they may be quiet as when it comes to brewing/innovating you get a lot of people contributing various ideas of different merit, but as the RW planeswalker list is probably close to optimised as it can be, it is naturally pretty quiet.
Those lists running Bridge have a bit of innovation room, and those splashing or even focusing on landkill have a bit more, but they tend to get less support in this particular sub forum, long term regulars not withstanding.
That said the rise of UW control makes RW variants a lot worse in two ways, firstly taking players who wish to play control, and secondly the actual matchup is poor for most RW decks.
Approach would be cute as a one of. Extra win con. I have been wanting to try sun and moon, currently on the sister deck free win red. I find myself basically losing to myself too often on drawing the wrong half, might swap over after the next GP if I can get leylines cheap
It is basically a bad card, in that it creates games where you just win by creating more t2 landkill, but it loses you more games by being useless in many situations.
It conflicts with Chalice, sure, but it is basically less versatile than most landkill. It can be used, it pops up in the odd landkill, but more opportunities arise by playing Chalice or other landkill cards I the same slot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
i personally dropped nahiri all together as i found her really clunky. i think bridge should definitely be a 2-3 of and you should prolly up the gideon counts. i personally like a 2-2 split on trials and jura but even a 2-1-1 split of trial, jura, and ally would be decent. a lot of time with this deck you end up durdling so when you drop something you want to make it really matter. also dont sleep on blessed alliance. that card is really amazing. as for SB timeley reinforcements is great as is linvala for the kiki chord/ counters company matches. hope this helped
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Just went 3-1 with the same list that 5-0d the competitive. Really like it over the free win red version of prison. Lost to a Kiki Resto chord deck. Toolbox decks seem hard to beat. Running the emrakul nahiri package and people respect it as a threat. Isn’t bridge and Gideon a non-bo? You want to be attacking with them usually and bridge says no. But bridge could halt the bad matchups like toolbox, maybe even put a torpor orb in the side.
Throwing my list out there to try to breath some life back into the conversation. One question I have is why is Molten Rain being chosen over Fulminator Mage?
My list is pretty different I'll admit, but have had great success with it on Xmage, have only lost once over the last few days vs that new blue moon deck. Only afterwards did I realise I should have been chalicing for zero ._.
I suspect this deck just got better thanks to a seeming shift towards big mana decks and a Jeskai deck that is pretty greedy mana-wise, especially compared to UW Control. It is already solid against creature decks thanks to all of the removal and if Death's Shadow and Eldrazi tron are weakening, Blood Moon seems well-positioned.
The basic foundation of this seems solid, but I would replace Boil with Stone Rain:
There is no magic trick for the bridge lists.
You can play almost any of the lists with Nahiri et al that have done well and use bridge. Historically that is what has happened, people just add bridge in place of straight control card like an Anger or Wrath in decks and tweak the win cons a little. When you use bridge the only thing to watch out for is that it works better when your wincons include Assemble the Legion to get under it, and that Bridge/Emrakul is a minor nonbo. The Gideon type cards are a bit worse in Bridge lists, and lightning helix type cards get better, but basically the thing is to take an existing list and learn it.
You can of course build from scratch, of course.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Hope you're not all dead...
I've been playing a Planeswalker heavy variant of the old Nahiri brew recently with great success. Just wanted to share the decklist and maybe get some of your ideas about it
Blimey its RW superfriends.
Welcome back.
Oh and welcome all to Developing Competitive. Again.
Strangely I think we get better service in here than elsewhere above, where if the deck was played by Mr Todd last Saturday not many wanted to run it with any changes, even if other players did as well with different takes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Incidentally, I don't use SSG in landkill, hitting t2 landkill or t1 s field is strong, of course, and SSG really helps. Generally it works best in the metas where U counterspell heavy decks are present, allowing landkill to slip in and the SF to hurt their ability to counterspell, but if U decks are not about I find it is not as good as it hurts the grindy Jund type matches. It is a big shame as these two decks are the weakest for landkill, and SSG helps one match whilst hurting the other, with combo-ing decks and cheaty decks the easiest match up.
Your idea may work of course, I am simply referring to my build and the card, and time will tell. I turned down the option of a pptq with landkill yesterday as my meta had become very counterspell and discard heavy, and I felt that another deck would be more effective- as it happened the meta was totally different and I regretted my choice as soon as I saw the whole room in action, although it did me no harm to play a more aggressive deck for once, many people are aware of my preferences, and often take land-heavy or slow hands against me assuming I am on some kind of prison deck. One thing is for certain- Sun and Moon PW control would have been very weak in this meta, I think the only Nahiri deck was URW and it finished last with 0 points 0-4 drop.
I love symmetric world effects but I don't want to grind every game down into dust. If I can manage it, my ideal would be to have cards playing different roles in different matchups.
My favorite deck of all time was primarily a lockdown deck, but a significant number of my wins were tempo wins behind Mishra's Factory. Mishra's factory is a great example of what I mean. It was a great blocker against aggro, (This was a pretty long time ago, when Savannah Lion was really the only one-drop that traded with it) it was a very challenging tempo threat for control decks to deal with, and it finished the job against mid-range.
Then land destruction/ponza started to show up more frequently, and also some of the early combos like necropotence. Not to mention the rules changes that hit icy manipulator and the overall power creep.
I guess what I'm saying is that what I want to play might not be viable, and Suppression Field might be viable but I can't see how it would help me play the sort of deck that i want to play. So I'll acknowledge it's usefulness but continue to not use it.
ATL is excellent BTW, it acts defensively and then offensively. Superb card.
That said Gideon of the Trials and Gideon Jura have proven themselves to be very much Modern quality, I doubt if the PW rule ever impacted much on selection of PWs but if you mean can you include 1 or 2 GJ and 1 or 2 GOTT in the same deck, well yes.
what are your opinions?
mostly for just casual or fmn.
2 Batterskull
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Rakdos Signet
4 Mizzium Mortars
4 Rakdos's Return
4 Pyroclasm
2 Damnation
4 lightning bolt
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands
7 Swamp
17 Mountain
I doubt people sold their decks, but the movement between the two sub-fora is probably bad for business. Some people will have been specifically attracted to the deck when Todd S played it and will have traded out, but the reality is the RW prison concept was around and popping up from time to time in various SCG level events at a low incidence, so the deck will remain solid in play terms, and the cards $$$ values are largely unaltered. Todd S' success also drew in a lot of people who want a finished product, who are happy to discuss the 72nd and 59th card slots, but who don't really do much other than discuss results or give their own, so they may be quiet as when it comes to brewing/innovating you get a lot of people contributing various ideas of different merit, but as the RW planeswalker list is probably close to optimised as it can be, it is naturally pretty quiet.
Those lists running Bridge have a bit of innovation room, and those splashing or even focusing on landkill have a bit more, but they tend to get less support in this particular sub forum, long term regulars not withstanding.
That said the rise of UW control makes RW variants a lot worse in two ways, firstly taking players who wish to play control, and secondly the actual matchup is poor for most RW decks.
Not me, but hopefully someone will- there is potential there.
It conflicts with Chalice, sure, but it is basically less versatile than most landkill. It can be used, it pops up in the odd landkill, but more opportunities arise by playing Chalice or other landkill cards I the same slot.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
My list is pretty different I'll admit, but have had great success with it on Xmage, have only lost once over the last few days vs that new blue moon deck. Only afterwards did I realise I should have been chalicing for zero ._.
2 Canyon Slough
2 Rugged Prairie
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
1 Gemstone Cavern
8 Plains
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
2 Cast Out
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sweltering Suns
4 Lightning Helix
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Batterskull
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Stony Silence
3 Rest in peace
1 boil
1 Slaughter games
2 Wrath of god
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Leyline of Sanctity
The basic foundation of this seems solid, but I would replace Boil with Stone Rain:
4 Arid Mesa
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mountain
8 Plains
3 Rugged Prairie
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Windswept Heath
5 CREATURES
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Simian Spirit Guide
10 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Lightning Helix
2 Wrath of God
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Banishing Light
4 Blood Moon
1 Cast Out
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Gideon Jura
2 Gideon of the Trials
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Boil
1 Damping Matrix
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Wrath of God
Modern
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
You can play almost any of the lists with Nahiri et al that have done well and use bridge. Historically that is what has happened, people just add bridge in place of straight control card like an Anger or Wrath in decks and tweak the win cons a little. When you use bridge the only thing to watch out for is that it works better when your wincons include Assemble the Legion to get under it, and that Bridge/Emrakul is a minor nonbo. The Gideon type cards are a bit worse in Bridge lists, and lightning helix type cards get better, but basically the thing is to take an existing list and learn it.
You can of course build from scratch, of course.
Hope you're not all dead...
I've been playing a Planeswalker heavy variant of the old Nahiri brew recently with great success. Just wanted to share the decklist and maybe get some of your ideas about it
Welcome back.
Oh and welcome all to Developing Competitive. Again.
Strangely I think we get better service in here than elsewhere above, where if the deck was played by Mr Todd last Saturday not many wanted to run it with any changes, even if other players did as well with different takes.