@deathandcatmix I agree with the comment from SpinifexV regarding difficulty with Blight Herder with this deck, but I am thinking about giving it a try. I think even minimally, having the Scions to generate mana help with our LD strategy. I also play WB Eldrazi Processors. While there it is easier to get the exiled cards, I have still found that Smasher has been better in order to get damage through. Herder being blocked by a token is just painful!
I prefer Birds and I don't think that the Exalted trigger is that important, since I always attack with more than 1 creature anyway.. also, I often flickered something against Affinity at my end of turn and chump blocked with one of the Birds.. won more game 1s against Affinity than I lost because of Birds and Flickerwisps.. I like Serra Avenger because it's simply a 3/3 flying vigilance and a LOT of decks have problems with flying creatures.. my opponent often has to answer 1 Serra Avenger, 1 Flickerwisp and 1 Resto Angel.. well.. there we come again to the Exalted trigger.. who needs him really? maybe this is the reason why lot of people cry against Affinity game 1.. the Affinity Player attacks you with flying creatures you can not block often..
I was one of who was in favor of birds about 3 years ago, just because I was using swords of x and y and a lot of things back then. If you say that Birds helps you just by blocking an affinity flying creature, you're just doing nothing since birds dies (except for you) and you're back 1 mana the following turns.
You can, however, like your choice and that's it. But noble hierarch is way too powerful and better than birds, that I could say you didn't play it properly or you made wrong choices. Remember that exalted triggers help you to have ONE attacker and a lot of blockers and ALSO let you attack with everybody else!! For example: - You have 1 noble, 1 blade splicer and a golem token. You attack with a Golem for 4 damage with first strike. (remember that 3/4 goyf? not blocking here)
- Now, you have 1 birds, 1 blade splicer and a golem token. You attack with a 3/3 golem or you attack with blade splicer alongside the golem (remember that 3/4 goyf I mentioned above? Well, you can't even attack with your golem any longer).
Anyway, I'm not trying to debate which is better, but I respect your wish to play with birds to complicate the maths for your opponents' flying creatures. But I'm truly sure that Noble is almost 100% better in most scenarios which I just told above.
P.s: Birds of Paradise is one of my favorite cards ever and I play it when I go with hatebears with no vial just for the love
I don't think I'd want to be casting any creature for 8 mana in modern. Akroma, Angel of Wrath probably isn't where you want to be. Maybe you mean Akroma, Angel of Fury? Kind of gimmicky, but can blow people out.
I don't think I'd want to be casting any creature for 8 mana in modern. Akroma, Angel of Wrath probably isn't where you want to be. Maybe you mean Akroma, Angel of Fury? Kind of gimmicky, but can blow people out.
I wanted badly that beauty to work, but fatal push is a pain in (you know where) as Lightning Bolt always was. I never could unmorph it, but if you do, I guess you'd win hehe
Noble Hierarch and Gavony Township is (for me) the main reason to play with green. I once played 4 noble, 2 birds and 4 vial at the same deck, but eventually cut bird =/
I wanted badly that beauty to work, but fatal push is a pain in (you know where) as Lightning Bolt always was. I never could unmorph it, but if you do, I guess you'd win hehe
No doubt about that
I tried 1 in sb for a while since some matchups have a really hard time dealing with it, but I think those situations are too niche to give it a stapled spot.
I'm new here btw, hey all o/
I've been following this thread and grinded Mono-White taxes on mtgo for a while, but recently got the list finished on paper so figured I'd join in at last.
After (yet another) long hiatus from Magic, I find myself being drawn back in, and after dabbling around with a few mono-White combo lists, I inevitably find myself crawling back to good ol' Death and Taxes. All it took was a few games of Arbiter/GQing someone to death to remind me that I hate my opponents and would rather subject them to merciless suffering rather than instantly ending the game (no, I don't actually hate my opponents. But man do I love me some prison-type gameplay).
I've been trying to catch up with the direction mono-White D&T has gone, especially with the summer of strong finishes, and I was surprised to see that there was essentially consensus on the Inspector/Splicer/Resto/Copter build. Inspector was just starting to make the rounds the last time I was active, and while back then I called it the White Elvish Visionary, nowadays I'm not really into ripping timely late game topdecks. Same goes for Splicer/Resto and even *gasp!* Wisp. It occurred to me that the only times I was ever truly happy playing a Wisp is when I was Vialing it in EOT to take the opponent off of colored mana. Same goes for Resto: if I wasn't playing a Resto targeting Wisp EOT to do the same thing, it just didn't feel like I was doing what *I* wanted to accomplish. Sure, Restoing Splicer is often a game-winning play, but I think there's something to be said for playing a deck that suits your style.
With that, I present the following 60 that I have been trying out on MTGO recently:
Frankly, I wouldn't call this Death and Taxes. Maybe just... Taxes. There's a lot of cards missing from traditional D&T (the 0 Wisps should be a dead giveaway that this pile is quite different), and there's a lot of 4-ofs that see 2-of play in traditional builds at best. The basic game plan is pretty simple: win the mana denial game at all costs from the get-go, or just lose. You're really aiming to keep your opponent at a perpetual turn 2-ish state. As for the win con: it's literally just attacking for 2, 3, 4, 5 a turn a bunch of times.
Those of you who remember me know that I tend to take my own approach to D&T, and this is just the latest, albeit most extreme, example. As you can see, I haven't posted a sideboard, as I'm still trying to work my way through learning the current metagame. Ah, I should also mention that I put this 60 together without the metagame in mind: I expect to struggle mightily against primarily creature decks, but even then mana denial plus some first strikers on the ground might be enough to let your fliers get through.
Glad to be back. I might take this list, or some version of it, to the next SCG Classic nearby, which I think is the weekend for Halloween, so I'll have more to discuss then.
UW Taxes is a viable option?
Spell Queller and Reflector Mage are very powerful cards, also Mausoleum Wanderer can be a good support with Geist, Queller, Selfless. Some counters in the board, Meddling Mage and maybe more blue stuff.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is mostly a sideboard card for storm, so if that's not expected, I'd want to add extra removal, like another Sunlance (small creature/mana dork decks) or a Declaration in Stone (token/Lingering Souls decks). I run a Dec in Stone along with 1 Wrath of God and 1 Dusk // Dawn as my sweeper package. Usually 2/3 of those can come in when a matchup calls for sweepers. Lastly, Dec in Stone is great vs Blade Splicer tokens in the mirror as well.
UW Taxes is a viable option?
Spell Queller and Reflector Mage are very powerful cards, also Mausoleum Wanderer can be a good support with Geist, Queller, Selfless. Some counters in the board, Meddling Mage and maybe more blue stuff.
Please see this post. The information is a little out of date, but not much has been added to the WU lists since Spell Queller.
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend the blue splash at the moment. I just don't think it's very well positioned in the metagame.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Any updates on your BW Eldrazi & Taxes lists? I was running a playset of Thraben Inspectors, but they had mediocre results. They are often just over costed cantrips. The deck is so tight on mana that actively flickering/blinking them to crack clues is very rare.
With a replacement in mind, I decided to do some digging on mtgtop8 stats. Mind you, I'm just presenting a broad picture of their records of 2 months of play. I don't think any of my conclusions should be set in stone and I'm looking forward to your feedback on these insights. This is what we see:
. Out of the 33 results posted on mtgtop8 under hatebears, 16 correspond to the E&T archetype!
. Lands vary between 22 and 24. Only 2 lists deviate from 22.
. Most lands are consensual except for the 22nd. The last land is either a Godless Shrine, a Wastes, a Sea Gate Wreckage, or the third Shambling Vent. The deck that goes for 24 lands due to Reality Smashers opts for 2 Fetid Heaths instead.
. The flex slots on the main are the following: The 4th Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 2-3 Dark Confidants, 2-3 Reality Smashers for those who go big on lands, and an assortment of meta specific cards. Overall, between extra lands and meta specific calls, these slots cover 4 to 8 cards. Those who stick to maxing out core cards (3 Wasteland Stranglers and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 4-ofs for the rest of the core cards) usually have 4 slots.
. Bobs or no Bobs? Out of the 16 lists, 13 opted for running 2-3 Bobs. The majority (8) sticks to 2 copies. For those who are not a fan of greatness at any cost, another card fills the "value" slot: 1-2 Blade Splicers, 2 Kitchen Finks, and even 2 Wall of Omens.
. Sideboards are much harder to analyze. People agree on just a few cards: don't go out without packing at least 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Stony Silences, and 3-5 removal effects such as Fatal Push, Dismember, Blessed Alliance, Zealous Persecutions, Wasteland Strangler, and Orzhov Pontiffs. 1-2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar seems to be the go-to answer to midrange matchups.
I hope this is a helpful summary for those of you tinkering with the deck! Let me know your thoughts!
Played the following list last Sunday. not big turn-out so only three rounds I went 3-0 versus burn, mono-blue tempo turns (with thing in the ice), and gifts tron. Then played the same list (+1 Mindcensor -1 restoration angel) yesterday and went 3-1 beating wg humans, esper control and goblins, losing to a different goblins deck. I have been very happy with militant being an early attacker and disrupting opponent in the early game. My side board plan was different packages to bring in. 3 card leyline package. 3 card grave package, 3 card planeswalker package. 2 card artifact package, 2 card big creature package and 2 card small creature package. the main card I am not sure about is leyline which would turn into cards like mark of asylum, selfless spirit burrenton etc... if removed. The main deck seems really solid though. I have gone to kitchen finks over crusader due to red based removal in jeskai control and tempo and uw control decks seem to make up much more of the meta than the recently waning death's shadow. I also like the second mindcensor over 4th restoration angel with the 2 main deck field of ruin and the fact multiple restoration angles in opening hand is usually bad. just making final tweaks in preparation for regionals in a couple weeks.
Hey guys, dont mean to derail the thread but has anyone tried a red splash for death and taxes? I know in legacy, you can splash for a Plateau. How about in modern?
Magus of the Moon is kind of a nonbo with Path to Exile/ Ghost Quarter, but red also provides Lightning Bolt for bad matchups like affinity and elves. Thoughts?
Game two he has installed Hedron Crab, Mesmeric Orb and Fraying Sanity and threatened to kill me very fast, but I managed to Flicker his Sanity to kill Hedron Crab and proceed to beat for the win. Sculler'ed him twice, mill spell and Drown in Sorrow.
Match 3. RG Madcap Ponza 2-0
Generally horrific match for us, but I have been bringing a lot of stuff to fight this exact match.
Game 1. I had a vial turn 1 on mull to 6, he had no Moon but Land Destruction. I managed to slow down his ramp with Flickerwisp into Land and Stranger into Birds of Paradise. He couldn't recover from this.
Sideboard (all about trimming): +Oblviion Ring, +Disenchant, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Burrenton Forge-Tender, -2 Eldrazi Displacer, -3 Path to Exile, -Strangler
Game 2. I had thoughtseize him twice. Thoughtseize is a key card in sideboard for this match, because other discard creatures are useless if you get early mooned or LD. First thoughtseize got a Moon with him having no ramp but lands, 2 Stone Rain, Bonfire and Kitchen Finks. Second play was Thalia and he had Finks for turn 3. Turn 3 I played another thoughtseize to pick another Finks and played Burrenton for protection against Bonfire. At some stage of game I had been forced to path his Finks to Process them to kill Arbor Elf and superior team with Thalia and Burrenton have finished the game.
Match 4. Abzan Midrange 0-2
The matchup is bad, but winnable if you drew well. I didn't.
The sideboarding is rough. You need to choose a way: tax plan or value-process plan.
After game 2, I have realized that Flickerwisps are still good in this match. Yes, they are freakingly bad vs Lingering Souls, but if opponent simply doesn't have them, they are pretty good with flickering shenanigans, air combat and fighting planeswalker. Definitely wont sideboard them out next time.
Hey guys, dont mean to derail the thread but has anyone tried a red splash for death and taxes? I know in legacy, you can splash for a Plateau. How about in modern?
Magus of the Moon is kind of a nonbo with Path to Exile/ Ghost Quarter, but red also provides Lightning Bolt for bad matchups like affinity and elves. Thoughts?
Short answer: it gets talked about, but seldom gets tested. To my knowledge, it's never put up meaningful results.
Long answer: it's probably competitive, but it's really hard to build properly. Lightning Bolt is the reason to play red, just like Hierarch in green. The problem is that it's such a nonbo with Thalia that you almost never want to run Bolt and Thalia in the maindeck. If you cut Thalia, it plays a lot less like a Taxes deck. If you play Bolt out of the sideboard, you're probably boarding it in to deal with decks like Elves, Affinity, Counters Company, and Merfolk, at which point it's functionally equivalent to Sunlance.
Magus of the Moon is very tempting to put in the deck, but on the surface, Mangara is similarly tempting to put in mono-white. I'm not trying to compare the two, but I am trying to suggest that not everything that seems good actually plays well. Magus not only turns off all of our land destruction, but it also turns opponents' fetchlands into mana producers. In my experience, Magus may win games on the spot, but it also loses games by not being something more generically useful; it's good against the 3-color decks that we're already competitive with and it's bad against Elves, Affinity, Counters Company, and Merfolk.
At the moment, I don't think that WR is better positioned than mono-white. With the printing of Field of Ruin, I'd rather be threatening my opponents' manabases than making them play around Blood Moon. Good opponents will know how to do the latter, but even good opponents may stumble against the former.
Over the last year or two, I've had a few ideas about how to build WR D&T. I even started typing up a mini-primer for it, but I never got around to finishing it. Again, I think WR is playable and possibly even competitive. But I also think it's the hardest version of the deck to build properly. For example, it may have to play Thalia out of the sideboard, but that could just be the price of maindecking Lightning Bolts.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
You're facing Counters Company on the play, playing as Eldrazi Taxes. It's a post-board game and you've brought in some Fatal Push. T1 they play a Noble Hierarch or a Birds of Paradise. You have a push in hand, along with some hatebear (thalia/arbiter/sculler). Do you push the mana dork? What if you have a path in addition to the push? Do you instead aim to develop your board and hold all removal back for combo pieces?
I struggle mightily with this matchup. Please share your insight into this specific scenario and any other play advice for dealing with this obnoxious deck!
And what do you board out for games 2 and 3? I find myself wanting to bring in 3 push, 2 cage, and 2 RIP (and 2 mirran crusader?). But it's hard to find 7 cards to remove.
anyone want to critique my (soon to be purchased) deck? i really like the playstyle with the different "flicker-tricks" you can do with the deck and also locking the opponent out. that's what i want to focus on in my deck which looks as follows:
i don't want it to be an eldrazi deck. maybe its a little bit because of budget and if temple ever get banned, but i also like the focus on more land destruction and maybe a little bit more focused mana-base. gonti is maybe a weird choice, but i saw a guy use him in a variant of the deck and i just love the card also have flicker synergy and card draw (sort of) which is pretty scarce in this deck. dark confidant would probably be the most obvious upgrade but i want to keep it a little budget-friendly, maybe in the future. until then the card draw package of 2x thraben and 2x copters have to suffice.
but anyway, would love to hear any suggestions or opinions on the decklist before i order the rest of the cards that i need. be it the deck itself, sideboard or if i seriously should consider another version of the deck.
You're facing Counters Company on the play, playing as Eldrazi Taxes. It's a post-board game and you've brought in some Fatal Push. T1 they play a Noble Hierarch or a Birds of Paradise. You have a push in hand, along with some hatebear (thalia/arbiter/sculler). Do you push the mana dork? What if you have a path in addition to the push? Do you instead aim to develop your board and hold all removal back for combo pieces?
I struggle mightily with this matchup. Please share your insight into this specific scenario and any other play advice for dealing with this obnoxious deck!
And what do you board out for games 2 and 3? I find myself wanting to bring in 3 push, 2 cage, and 2 RIP (and 2 mirran crusader?). But it's hard to find 7 cards to remove.
"Bolt the bird" is pretty tried and true but I think this is one of the few situations where it is the wrong choice. Since all there cards are so cheap (like elves) and they have so many dorks, save the removal for relevant cards like the combo pieces/duskwatch recruiter. You simply will not beat them if they get an active duskwatch.
If they start to get too far ahead on board then you have to ask yourself: If I save the removal for the combo any longer am I just going to loose anyways?. Finding the point where the answer to that question is yes is when you just have to bite the bullet and commit to spending the removal. It is similar to playing against twin, way back when, you can't just always be scared of the combo and do nothing.
As for mulligans the answer to how aggressive to mull is how likely are you to beat them without your SB cards? If your chance is really low then mull aggressive if it's still a good chance then be less aggressive.
I'm considering picking up Mono White D and T and want to know how you think it is in the current metagame. If so, what is the agreed upon, standardized build for it? Also, how do you play versus Affinity? Scapeshift? Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
2 Plains
Creatures (29)
2 Dark Confidant
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Reality Smasher
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
1 Fatal Push
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Selfless Spirit
1 Grafdigger's Cage
@deathandcatmix I agree with the comment from SpinifexV regarding difficulty with Blight Herder with this deck, but I am thinking about giving it a try. I think even minimally, having the Scions to generate mana help with our LD strategy. I also play WB Eldrazi Processors. While there it is easier to get the exiled cards, I have still found that Smasher has been better in order to get damage through. Herder being blocked by a token is just painful!
You can, however, like your choice and that's it. But noble hierarch is way too powerful and better than birds, that I could say you didn't play it properly or you made wrong choices. Remember that exalted triggers help you to have ONE attacker and a lot of blockers and ALSO let you attack with everybody else!!
For example:
- You have 1 noble, 1 blade splicer and a golem token. You attack with a Golem for 4 damage with first strike. (remember that 3/4 goyf? not blocking here)
- Now, you have 1 birds, 1 blade splicer and a golem token. You attack with a 3/3 golem or you attack with blade splicer alongside the golem (remember that 3/4 goyf I mentioned above? Well, you can't even attack with your golem any longer).
Anyway, I'm not trying to debate which is better, but I respect your wish to play with birds to complicate the maths for your opponents' flying creatures. But I'm truly sure that Noble is almost 100% better in most scenarios which I just told above.
P.s: Birds of Paradise is one of my favorite cards ever and I play it when I go with hatebears with no vial just for the love
As for Birds of Paradise, I'd run a Gavony Township if I had Birds in my deck.
The exalted trigger is more important than the flying on the birds.
I wanted badly that beauty to work, but fatal push is a pain in (you know where) as Lightning Bolt always was. I never could unmorph it, but if you do, I guess you'd win hehe
Noble Hierarch and Gavony Township is (for me) the main reason to play with green. I once played 4 noble, 2 birds and 4 vial at the same deck, but eventually cut bird =/
I tried 1 in sb for a while since some matchups have a really hard time dealing with it, but I think those situations are too niche to give it a stapled spot.
I'm new here btw, hey all o/
I've been following this thread and grinded Mono-White taxes on mtgo for a while, but recently got the list finished on paper so figured I'd join in at last.
Legacy: Death'n'Taxes
After (yet another) long hiatus from Magic, I find myself being drawn back in, and after dabbling around with a few mono-White combo lists, I inevitably find myself crawling back to good ol' Death and Taxes. All it took was a few games of Arbiter/GQing someone to death to remind me that I hate my opponents and would rather subject them to merciless suffering rather than instantly ending the game (no, I don't actually hate my opponents. But man do I love me some prison-type gameplay).
I've been trying to catch up with the direction mono-White D&T has gone, especially with the summer of strong finishes, and I was surprised to see that there was essentially consensus on the Inspector/Splicer/Resto/Copter build. Inspector was just starting to make the rounds the last time I was active, and while back then I called it the White Elvish Visionary, nowadays I'm not really into ripping timely late game topdecks. Same goes for Splicer/Resto and even *gasp!* Wisp. It occurred to me that the only times I was ever truly happy playing a Wisp is when I was Vialing it in EOT to take the opponent off of colored mana. Same goes for Resto: if I wasn't playing a Resto targeting Wisp EOT to do the same thing, it just didn't feel like I was doing what *I* wanted to accomplish. Sure, Restoing Splicer is often a game-winning play, but I think there's something to be said for playing a deck that suits your style.
With that, I present the following 60 that I have been trying out on MTGO recently:
8 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Field of Ruin
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Frankly, I wouldn't call this Death and Taxes. Maybe just... Taxes. There's a lot of cards missing from traditional D&T (the 0 Wisps should be a dead giveaway that this pile is quite different), and there's a lot of 4-ofs that see 2-of play in traditional builds at best. The basic game plan is pretty simple: win the mana denial game at all costs from the get-go, or just lose. You're really aiming to keep your opponent at a perpetual turn 2-ish state. As for the win con: it's literally just attacking for 2, 3, 4, 5 a turn a bunch of times.
Those of you who remember me know that I tend to take my own approach to D&T, and this is just the latest, albeit most extreme, example. As you can see, I haven't posted a sideboard, as I'm still trying to work my way through learning the current metagame. Ah, I should also mention that I put this 60 together without the metagame in mind: I expect to struggle mightily against primarily creature decks, but even then mana denial plus some first strikers on the ground might be enough to let your fliers get through.
Glad to be back. I might take this list, or some version of it, to the next SCG Classic nearby, which I think is the weekend for Halloween, so I'll have more to discuss then.
Spell Queller and Reflector Mage are very powerful cards, also Mausoleum Wanderer can be a good support with Geist, Queller, Selfless. Some counters in the board, Meddling Mage and maybe more blue stuff.
I'd drop the Kitchen Finks for Burrenton Forge-Tender. BFT comes down earlier against burn and blocks Goblin Guide and Monstery Swiftspear. It also shuts down red sweepers like Pyroclasm in GR Tron, Whipflare in Affinity, and Anger of the Gods in Jeskai/Scapeshift. If I played Finks, it would be in the maindeck.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is mostly a sideboard card for storm, so if that's not expected, I'd want to add extra removal, like another Sunlance (small creature/mana dork decks) or a Declaration in Stone (token/Lingering Souls decks). I run a Dec in Stone along with 1 Wrath of God and 1 Dusk // Dawn as my sweeper package. Usually 2/3 of those can come in when a matchup calls for sweepers. Lastly, Dec in Stone is great vs Blade Splicer tokens in the mirror as well.
I largely prefer Relic of Progenitus to Grafdigger's Cage if I don't expect Collected Company/Chord of Calling/Eldritch Evolution decks, and I especially like Relic for decks like Abzan and Jeskai. Opponents tend to bring in artifact/enchantment hate against D&T, so I mostly like graveyard hate that exiles cards due to that.
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend the blue splash at the moment. I just don't think it's very well positioned in the metagame.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Any updates on your BW Eldrazi & Taxes lists? I was running a playset of Thraben Inspectors, but they had mediocre results. They are often just over costed cantrips. The deck is so tight on mana that actively flickering/blinking them to crack clues is very rare.
With a replacement in mind, I decided to do some digging on mtgtop8 stats. Mind you, I'm just presenting a broad picture of their records of 2 months of play. I don't think any of my conclusions should be set in stone and I'm looking forward to your feedback on these insights. This is what we see:
. Out of the 33 results posted on mtgtop8 under hatebears, 16 correspond to the E&T archetype!
. Lands vary between 22 and 24. Only 2 lists deviate from 22.
. Most lands are consensual except for the 22nd. The last land is either a Godless Shrine, a Wastes, a Sea Gate Wreckage, or the third Shambling Vent. The deck that goes for 24 lands due to Reality Smashers opts for 2 Fetid Heaths instead.
. The flex slots on the main are the following: The 4th Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 2-3 Dark Confidants, 2-3 Reality Smashers for those who go big on lands, and an assortment of meta specific cards. Overall, between extra lands and meta specific calls, these slots cover 4 to 8 cards. Those who stick to maxing out core cards (3 Wasteland Stranglers and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 4-ofs for the rest of the core cards) usually have 4 slots.
. Bobs or no Bobs? Out of the 16 lists, 13 opted for running 2-3 Bobs. The majority (8) sticks to 2 copies. For those who are not a fan of greatness at any cost, another card fills the "value" slot: 1-2 Blade Splicers, 2 Kitchen Finks, and even 2 Wall of Omens.
. Sideboards are much harder to analyze. People agree on just a few cards: don't go out without packing at least 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Stony Silences, and 3-5 removal effects such as Fatal Push, Dismember, Blessed Alliance, Zealous Persecutions, Wasteland Strangler, and Orzhov Pontiffs. 1-2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar seems to be the go-to answer to midrange matchups.
I hope this is a helpful summary for those of you tinkering with the deck! Let me know your thoughts!
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG
4 dryad militant
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 leonin arbiter
2 serra avenger
4 flicekrwisp
4 blade splicer
2 aven mindcensor
2 kitchen finks
3 restorationa angel
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
Lands 23
4 ghost quarter
3 tectonic edge
2 field of ruin
14 plains
3 leyline of sanctity
3 relic of progenitus
2 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 elspeth, knight-errant
2 stony silence
2 sunlance
1 wrath of god
1 dismember
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Magus of the Moon is kind of a nonbo with Path to Exile/ Ghost Quarter, but red also provides Lightning Bolt for bad matchups like affinity and elves. Thoughts?
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
3 Wasteland Strangler
2 Dark Confidant
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
2 Fatal Push
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Thoughtseize
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Mirran Crusader
3-1 daily tournament
Match 1. Burn 2-0
I had pretty good start with vial, opponent had 2 guides but I developed board too fast.
Sideboard: -2 Dark Confidant, -3 Flickerwisp, +2 Burrenton Forge-Tender, +2 Fatal Push, +1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
I had 2 eldrazi temple game 2 which lead to Eldrazi Displacer-Tidehollow Sculler-Strangler shenanigans. Did Rift Bolt process trick once.
Match 2. Esper Mill 2-0
Game one I beat him down pretty easily.
Sideboard: -4 Path to Exile, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Oblivion Ring, Kambal
Game two he has installed Hedron Crab, Mesmeric Orb and Fraying Sanity and threatened to kill me very fast, but I managed to Flicker his Sanity to kill Hedron Crab and proceed to beat for the win. Sculler'ed him twice, mill spell and Drown in Sorrow.
Match 3. RG Madcap Ponza 2-0
Generally horrific match for us, but I have been bringing a lot of stuff to fight this exact match.
Game 1. I had a vial turn 1 on mull to 6, he had no Moon but Land Destruction. I managed to slow down his ramp with Flickerwisp into Land and Stranger into Birds of Paradise. He couldn't recover from this.
Sideboard (all about trimming): +Oblviion Ring, +Disenchant, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Burrenton Forge-Tender, -2 Eldrazi Displacer, -3 Path to Exile, -Strangler
Game 2. I had thoughtseize him twice. Thoughtseize is a key card in sideboard for this match, because other discard creatures are useless if you get early mooned or LD. First thoughtseize got a Moon with him having no ramp but lands, 2 Stone Rain, Bonfire and Kitchen Finks. Second play was Thalia and he had Finks for turn 3. Turn 3 I played another thoughtseize to pick another Finks and played Burrenton for protection against Bonfire. At some stage of game I had been forced to path his Finks to Process them to kill Arbor Elf and superior team with Thalia and Burrenton have finished the game.
Match 4. Abzan Midrange 0-2
The matchup is bad, but winnable if you drew well. I didn't.
The sideboarding is rough. You need to choose a way: tax plan or value-process plan.
Sideboard: +2 Rest in Peace, +2 Fatal Push, +Oblivion Ring, +Mirran Crusader, +Zealous Persecution, -3 Flickerwisp, -3 Tidehollow Sculler, -1 Vial
I chose tax plan and lost super bad game 2.
After game 2, I have realized that Flickerwisps are still good in this match. Yes, they are freakingly bad vs Lingering Souls, but if opponent simply doesn't have them, they are pretty good with flickering shenanigans, air combat and fighting planeswalker. Definitely wont sideboard them out next time.
Long answer: it's probably competitive, but it's really hard to build properly. Lightning Bolt is the reason to play red, just like Hierarch in green. The problem is that it's such a nonbo with Thalia that you almost never want to run Bolt and Thalia in the maindeck. If you cut Thalia, it plays a lot less like a Taxes deck. If you play Bolt out of the sideboard, you're probably boarding it in to deal with decks like Elves, Affinity, Counters Company, and Merfolk, at which point it's functionally equivalent to Sunlance.
Magus of the Moon is very tempting to put in the deck, but on the surface, Mangara is similarly tempting to put in mono-white. I'm not trying to compare the two, but I am trying to suggest that not everything that seems good actually plays well. Magus not only turns off all of our land destruction, but it also turns opponents' fetchlands into mana producers. In my experience, Magus may win games on the spot, but it also loses games by not being something more generically useful; it's good against the 3-color decks that we're already competitive with and it's bad against Elves, Affinity, Counters Company, and Merfolk.
At the moment, I don't think that WR is better positioned than mono-white. With the printing of Field of Ruin, I'd rather be threatening my opponents' manabases than making them play around Blood Moon. Good opponents will know how to do the latter, but even good opponents may stumble against the former.
Over the last year or two, I've had a few ideas about how to build WR D&T. I even started typing up a mini-primer for it, but I never got around to finishing it. Again, I think WR is playable and possibly even competitive. But I also think it's the hardest version of the deck to build properly. For example, it may have to play Thalia out of the sideboard, but that could just be the price of maindecking Lightning Bolts.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
You're facing Counters Company on the play, playing as Eldrazi Taxes. It's a post-board game and you've brought in some Fatal Push. T1 they play a Noble Hierarch or a Birds of Paradise. You have a push in hand, along with some hatebear (thalia/arbiter/sculler). Do you push the mana dork? What if you have a path in addition to the push? Do you instead aim to develop your board and hold all removal back for combo pieces?
I struggle mightily with this matchup. Please share your insight into this specific scenario and any other play advice for dealing with this obnoxious deck!
Also how aggressively do you mulligan for Grafdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace or a hand full of removal?
And what do you board out for games 2 and 3? I find myself wanting to bring in 3 push, 2 cage, and 2 RIP (and 2 mirran crusader?). But it's hard to find 7 cards to remove.
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Restoration Angel
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thraben Inspector
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Aether Vial
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Field of Ruin
4 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Dismember
2 Dusk // dawn
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Wasteland Strangler
1 Zealous Persecution
i don't want it to be an eldrazi deck. maybe its a little bit because of budget and if temple ever get banned, but i also like the focus on more land destruction and maybe a little bit more focused mana-base. gonti is maybe a weird choice, but i saw a guy use him in a variant of the deck and i just love the card also have flicker synergy and card draw (sort of) which is pretty scarce in this deck. dark confidant would probably be the most obvious upgrade but i want to keep it a little budget-friendly, maybe in the future. until then the card draw package of 2x thraben and 2x copters have to suffice.
but anyway, would love to hear any suggestions or opinions on the decklist before i order the rest of the cards that i need. be it the deck itself, sideboard or if i seriously should consider another version of the deck.
- mono white first feature match versus 5c humans
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
"Bolt the bird" is pretty tried and true but I think this is one of the few situations where it is the wrong choice. Since all there cards are so cheap (like elves) and they have so many dorks, save the removal for relevant cards like the combo pieces/duskwatch recruiter. You simply will not beat them if they get an active duskwatch.
If they start to get too far ahead on board then you have to ask yourself: If I save the removal for the combo any longer am I just going to loose anyways?. Finding the point where the answer to that question is yes is when you just have to bite the bullet and commit to spending the removal. It is similar to playing against twin, way back when, you can't just always be scared of the combo and do nothing.
As for mulligans the answer to how aggressive to mull is how likely are you to beat them without your SB cards? If your chance is really low then mull aggressive if it's still a good chance then be less aggressive.
I'm considering picking up Mono White D and T and want to know how you think it is in the current metagame. If so, what is the agreed upon, standardized build for it? Also, how do you play versus Affinity? Scapeshift? Thanks.