Also, I have no problems with lists like this being in this thread. It's technically control, and Approach isn't the only win-con, so isn't really applicable to the dedicated UW Approach threads. Like NSC, I also took the mentality of just durdling around and always holding one counter in hand once I knew I was playing against an Approach deck. However, with something like a Scarab God as an alternate, it give opponents something to think about...
@Pumpmonkey Personally I'd lean more towards some hard counters rather than all soft counters, but I think that comes from a pure-control mindset and not necessarily an Approach-Control mindset. Not sure on the full 4 Wrath to Exile (Settle the Wreckage), but definitely agree 2 main. Maybe only 1 side, but not sure what I'd swap it out for. I kinda want to try Perilous Voyage, but no idea what to take out for it. I'd also swap censor and supreme will numbers, I've always thought (maybe from this thread? not sure) that Censor was either 4 or 0 copies.
Anyone looking at Sanguine Sacrament? Even casting it on turn 4 might give you just enough buffer to stabilize against aggro/RDW, and since it goes on the bottom of your library you can technically prevent yourself from ever decking (assuming opp has no counters lol)
So ive been playing this list on X-mage for the past few days and have played about 100 matches with some pretty good results against mid-range, temp, and control. My aggro matches are about 50/50 as has always been the case when they get a fast start it is difficult to keep up with them. I will say that the card that has been over-performing for me is Vona, Butcher of Magan, its very reminisant of Blood Baron of Vizkopa from days of Esper past. While I havent gotten to activate the ability more than a couple of times and both were against a big mana dino deck. But the 4/4 body and the lifelink has been very good against the aggressive decks I have played against such as vampires and pirate strategies and the various white decks.
@ciago92 and @JonInWherever, thanks for the advice. After more playtesting in xMage, I think I am trying to do too much. I have counters, draw, hand disruption, spot removal, swipers and 7 win-cons. Trying to have answers for everything means a lot of the time I don't have the one that I need. Going to have to condense and focus more. Really like the looks of @Unhlyjspr360 deck. After I play with the numbers some, I will post and get everyone's option.
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
Hey there, bit of an offtopic question here. Was playing Sultai Control before rotation with a delirium package supported mainly by Ishkanah, Grafwidow and Liliana, Death's Majesty (sorry for card tags, on my phone atm). However, the deck took big losses both in 4-5 cost creatures and graveyard fueling cards. I've always liked the idea of controlling the early game and starting pumping out threats and reanimating by turn 4 or 5, but I don't know if that's possible anymore with the current cardpool. Do you think some of these lists could accomodate for cards like Liliana, Carnage Tyrant and Hostage Taker for a reanimator subtheme in sultai colors? Thanks in advance.
Hey there, bit of an offtopic question here. Was playing Sultai Control before rotation with a delirium package supported mainly by Ishkanah, Grafwidow and Liliana, Death's Majesty (sorry for card tags, on my phone atm). However, the deck took big losses both in 4-5 cost creatures and graveyard fueling cards. I've always liked the idea of controlling the early game and starting pumping out threats and reanimating by turn 4 or 5, but I don't know if that's possible anymore with the current cardpool. Do you think some of these lists could accomodate for cards like Liliana, Carnage Tyrant and Hostage Taker for a reanimator subtheme in sultai colors? Thanks in advance.
The main issue is that Ishkanah was pretty vital to the reason for being Sultai. It was just so good at gumming up the board and Traverse was super good too. Now there is really not much reason to run green anymore which is the problem. Carnage Tyrant can be a powerful finisher, but it's not great at stabilizing the board like Ishkanah or Thragtusk of standards past. That being said going just UB is still a powerful choice. Hostage Taker can create very powerful situations and the 5 mana lily is powerful.
I see, makes sense. The only times Sultai has been decent have been when they get something that clutters the board (Hornet Queen, Ishkanah) and that's something sorely missing from today's rotation. What cards could I use to fuel the GY in UB? Eye's set on two right now, Strategic Planning (which I hate) and Winds of Rebuke. So far I'm leaning more towards Wind s as the main enabler, but that'll depend on how many good ETB triggers there are and how slow the format is. People mention Ramunap and Temur Dinosaurs as decks to watch out for, so I guess Harsh Scrutiny mainboard is also a possibility.
@ciago92 and @JonInWherever, thanks for the advice. After more playtesting in xMage, I think I am trying to do too much. I have counters, draw, hand disruption, spot removal, swipers and 7 win-cons. Trying to have answers for everything means a lot of the time I don't have the one that I need. Going to have to condense and focus more. Really like the looks of @Unhlyjspr360 deck. After I play with the numbers some, I will post and get everyone's option.
Dont mess with the numbers too much. Ive pretty much tweaked the numbers as much as they can be. lol
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Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Alright, I think I've finished a draft for what I want to do with the deck. Numbers are still open to tweaking of course, and just goldfishing I'm not that impressed with Search for Azcanta (reminds me of the lackluster Sultai Ascendancy), but we'll see. I'm still wanting to try Winds of Rebuke to fill out the graveyard: I think it could remain relevant VS counters decks as well as being a decent filler vs everything else. That being said, here's my list:
Also, do you guys think Vraska, Relic Seeker could work as a wincon? she doesn't seem that impressive to me, but I got one in my prerelease and wanted to try it out. Seems green for T6 could easily be splashable, since Aether Hub already gives you 4 sources and cantrips and draws give you half each.
I dunno I feel skeptical that one copy of approach is correct. Is it purely to fakeout the other guy?
I feel like any deck that tries to Approach as a wincon either runs 4 or 3, either that or none. Perhaps take out Sanguine and one or two copies of doomfall for more copies of Approaches?
I dunno I feel skeptical that one copy of approach is correct. Is it purely to fakeout the other guy?
I feel like any deck that tries to Approach as a wincon either runs 4 or 3, either that or none. Perhaps take out Sanguine and one or two copies of doomfall for more copies of Approaches?
The reason for approach is because it is a win con that you can easily get to that cant be killed off the field. Its good against the control mirror, slower mid-range decks, and the ramp decks. Against fast aggro decks or tempo you can board it out easily for whatever you need. Plus if you get it to work game one against black decks they tend to bring in lost legacy against you. If you kept in approach then they one for one and dont get your more important spells in the match, and if you took it out approach then they 1 for 0 and they probably wasted a turn. Also taking out sanguine makes your game one against red very worse and the doomfall are for things like carnage tyrant. Also adding more 7 drops into the deck seems poor when we also have 5 and 6 mana win cons.
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"Wars may come and go but my soldiers, they are eternal."
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
1 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Aether Hub
4 Glimmer of Genius
Choose One
3 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Lightning Strike
I personally like Shielded Aether Thief. He reminds me of Wall of Omens but on our primary color and stands in front of Ramunap Red creatures. Also, Glimmer of Genius is a very powerful magic card.
Choose one
2 Abandoned Sarcophagus
2 Drake Haven
2 Faith of the Devoted
of the two packages mentioned, I've had the most success with the energy package thanks to the inevitability provided by Torrential Gearhulk into Glimmer of Genius, as well as the early game wall of Shielded Aether Thief. The Cycling package has performed well, but its much more vulnerable to Ramunap Red than the energy package. One thing the Cycling package has going for it is the added sideboard options and the good matchup vs the Mono Blue sky pirates deck.
Let's assemble the energy package with the foundation:
I love Vraska so much, and feel that she is one of the most powerful closers. She clocks and protects with her +2, her -3 kills another problem permanent and grants you a Revolt-generating Treasure for Fatal Push. Nissa is also a great closer as well as a great three drop against control. She sets up every draw and allows your Azcantas to dig a big further. I love the green splash.
The white splash seems much more controlling. Vona provides some lifelink and the ability to kill problem permanents. Cast out also takes out problematic permanents, but at instant speed. Settle the Wreckage helps a lot against Carnage Tyrant and some fringe board-swarming strategies. Approach also just happens to win the game. Lets plug in the white splash and see where we are at.
Wow, that's 38 non-lands, giving us only room for 22 lands. I require 25 with this deck, seeing as Azcanta turns into additional mana and we have good filter. Let's make a 25 land mana base.
I don't like Approach with so many creatures and so little permission. I also feel that the deck is too creature heavy. Vona could easily be a sideboard card, as could a Shielded Aether Thief. Lets add in a few Essence Scatters, Censors and Disallows.
Let's also round out the sideboard and tweak the main deck a little.
This is the direction I'll go with the deck. The reason I have all of this spelled out, is if I'm wrong somewhere in my rationale, please let me know. Thanks for reading!
And because you didn't ask for it, here's the Green splash final* decklist:
Not gonna lie. I didn't read the entirety of that tome you wrote.
As far as your final list, good luck. I believe your deck is too slow and doesn't have enough early removal. You're praying to get all the early creatures with Fatal Push or Essence Scatter. Well that's a fine idea, except it seems this deck would fold up shop to Ramunap Red. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to defend yourself on the play from a cursory look.
Also, what's the point of Nissa, Steward of Elements? She doesn't protect you and she doesn't provide any particular utility that's necessary. If you're not making land drops with the cycling and card selection that's available to you, then I think there's something wrong with the setup. Other than that, what's good about her?
Search for Azcanta has been underwhelming in testing. It's possibly decent in God-Pharaoh's Gift decks since it's another enabler, but I think they have enough to do with their mana on most turns that they don't necessarily need it. I think Opt would be better for us in that slot than Search.
Hostage Taker seems questionable. Mostly because you either want to permanently deal with a problem instead of possibly getting blown out in combat, or you're trying to do things with it that are more along the lines of a tempo deck. I believe it would make a little more sense in a midrange build where a tempo advantage could be helpful, but that doesn't seem to be the aim of the deck. I could be wrong. I would suggest just more removal in that slot (Walk the Plank or Vraska's Contempt) or even Harsh Scrutiny since information and scrying is never bad. Not to mention, the beginning of a new Standard set tends to be focused on aggro decks. Amonkhet was a bit of an outlier.
While I appreciate your honesty, the last list isn't my final list. It's a starting point for a green splash. The second to bottom list, with the white splash, is what I'd feel would do best against the current unknown (aggro) meta. With 4 Fatal Push, 2 Essence Scatter, 3 Censor, 2 Settle the Wreckage, 2 Shielded Aether Thief I feel that my Ramunap Red matchup is still winnable.
Also, Search for Azcanta is not simply to fill the yard (which it does), it's also to set up your draws, prevent flood or prevent screw, and mid game it becomes another land with an unbelievable ability.
As for Hostage Taker, he's our out against Hazoret or Rhonas. He's also great at stealing Opposing Scarab Gods or Glorybringers. He's also a nice combat trick to be brought back with your own Scarab God. Hostage taker is one of the best cards in the deck and probably one of the top three cards of Ixalan.
To answer your questions about the green list, Nissa is there to set up draws and provide a clock. Her scry 2 is always relevant, her zero can be fun to set up a free play of hostage taker or Scarab God or Torrential Gearhulk. Her Ult is simply 10 damage, or two more mana should you need it (ouch).
While I appreciate your honesty, the last list isn't my final list. It's a starting point for a green splash. The second to bottom list, with the white splash, is what I'd feel would do best against the current unknown (aggro) meta. With 4 Fatal Push, 2 Essence Scatter, 3 Censor, 2 Settle the Wreckage, 2 Shielded Aether Thief I feel that my Ramunap Red matchup is still winnable.
Have you actually tested any of this online? I ask because Ramunap Red makes your list look bad, and it's the clear frontrunner right now. Gifted Aetherborn and Contraband Kingpin are just better against Mono-Red than Shielded Aether Thief. The Thief is a nice idea for when you have time, but they won't be giving that to you unless their decks just falls apart on itself.
Also, Search for Azcanta is not simply to fill the yard (which it does), it's also to set up your draws, prevent flood or prevent screw, and mid game it becomes another land with an unbelievable ability.
It's also slow. The control decks for this format don't need more slow stuff that doesn't have an effect on the board. Feel free to do whatever you want though. It's just an opinion on a card I have tested.
As for Hostage Taker, he's our out against Hazoret or Rhonas. He's also great at stealing Opposing Scarab Gods or Glorybringers. He's also a nice combat trick to be brought back with your own Scarab God. Hostage taker is one of the best cards in the deck and probably one of the top three cards of Ixalan.
Umm, you do know Vraska's Contempt will be legal right? It's also permanent and instant-speed.
To answer your questions about the green list, Nissa is there to set up draws and provide a clock. Her scry 2 is always relevant, her zero can be fun to set up a free play of hostage taker or Scarab God or Torrential Gearhulk. Her Ult is simply 10 damage, or two more mana should you need it (ouch).
I think you overestimate the speed of the format. Maybe come SCG Dallas everyone takes a different turn than what I'm seeing, but if what's happening online is any indication, you're going to be in a lot of trouble with the green splash.
I'm torn on Settle the Wreckage. It seems to solve some problems, but I really hated giving my opponents lands, which also filters their draws. I also don't like it being conditional to all attacking creatures, but then it wouldn't work so well against the hexproof stuff. I'm wondering if we just need to play unconditional sweepers.
Chaos, I agree with you regarding too little in the way of early removal now that Grasp is gone. I'm planning on sticking with "pure" UB, so I'm thinking 4 Push, 4 Censor, 2-3 Essence Scatter, and probably 2-3 Contempt as removal. I still think it's going to get overwhelmed pretty quick.
A lot of the pro control lists I've seen are talking about Search for Azcanta. Like them though, I can see it being a 1-of in lists. Shaheen Soorani's list runs 3 Opt and 1 Search, which I think is a nice balance.
Hostage Taker is one that I can see going either way. I'm actually thinking of sneaking it in to the Kalitas 4-drop slot - a 1-of main to go with 3 Hulk and 3 Gods, and then a second in the side for the slower mid-range matchups. I absolutely wouldn't consider the second against Red, but would rather go with more board wipes, counters and removal.
Yea, your list is pretty close to what I ended on as far as non-lands. I'm trying to stick to Dimir colors as well, but wedge color mana bases are fairly easy to put together now. The only reason Esper is still on the table for me is because I want a sweeper that doesn't potentially kill me, and the drawback on Bontu's Last Reckoning can be brutal. Walk the Plank is also painful, but there's literally nothing else to put in that slot unless we go add red. I think the sorcery-speed of it will hurt us big time though unless we go toward a tap-out style of deck. Maybe that's what I need to consider?
I think for this type of control, there`s no where to go but Esper (as much as it pains me to say it; I always play UB).
With the reprinting of ally checklands, Esper colors can be easily set up and Aether Hub is relevant when playing 4 Glimmer of Genius (Did we agree that this should still be a playset?)
The reason I think Esper is the way is because this type of control cannot utilize Bontu`s Last Reckoning to it`s fullest potential. I`d go so far as to say you will likely lose if they advance their board after you resolve a Bontu`s.
So, because of that reasoning, I think Fumigate is going to be one of the strongest cards in the 75. If you`re asking why going Esper is, in my opinion, the best option for Draw-Go at the moment, as opposed to UW Approach, it is because of the reprinting of Duress and for the flexibility of the removal package.
Having a crap ton of reactive answers to threats aren`t going to help you if your opponent is able to actually resolve something. Fatal Push , Cast Out , Ixalan`s Binding (perhaps?), Fumigate , Vraska`s Contempt , Doomfall and Trial of Ambition offer a varied and tool-boxy suite that can answer every threat in Standard. Also, Lost Legacy and Dispossess can absolutely devastate much of the meta alone (These are proactive, so I recommend these out of the side-board, of course)
I don`t have a list to offer at the moment, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the archetype.
Have you actually tested any of this online? I ask because Ramunap Red makes your list look bad, and it's the clear frontrunner right now. Gifted Aetherborn and Contraband Kingpin are just better against Mono-Red than Shielded Aether Thief. The Thief is a nice idea for when you have time, but they won't be giving that to you unless their decks just falls apart on itself.
It's also slow. The control decks for this format don't need more slow stuff that doesn't have an effect on the board. Feel free to do whatever you want though. It's just an opinion on a card I have tested.
Umm, you do know Vraska's Contempt will be legal right? It's also permanent and instant-speed.
I think you overestimate the speed of the format. Maybe come SCG Dallas everyone takes a different turn than what I'm seeing, but if what's happening online is any indication, you're going to be in a lot of trouble with the green splash.
I'm torn on Settle the Wreckage. It seems to solve some problems, but I really hated giving my opponents lands, which also filters their draws. I also don't like it being conditional to all attacking creatures, but then it wouldn't work so well against the hexproof stuff. I'm wondering if we just need to play unconditional sweepers.
Yea, your list is pretty close to what I ended on as far as non-lands. I'm trying to stick to Dimir colors as well, but wedge color mana bases are fairly easy to put together now. The only reason Esper is still on the table for me is because I want a sweeper that doesn't potentially kill me, and the drawback on Bontu's Last Reckoning can be brutal. Walk the Plank is also painful, but there's literally nothing else to put in that slot unless we go add red. I think the sorcery-speed of it will hurt us big time though unless we go toward a tap-out style of deck. Maybe that's what I need to consider?
I think for this type of control, there`s no where to go but Esper (as much as it pains me to say it; I always play UB).
With the reprinting of ally checklands, Esper colors can be easily set up and Aether Hub is relevant when playing 4 Glimmer of Genius (Did we agree that this should still be a playset?)
The reason I think Esper is the way is because this type of control cannot utilize Bontu`s Last Reckoning to it`s fullest potential. I`d go so far as to say you will likely lose if they advance their board after you resolve a Bontu`s.
So, because of that reasoning, I think Fumigate is going to be one of the strongest cards in the 75. If you`re asking why going Esper is, in my opinion, the best option for Draw-Go at the moment, as opposed to UW Approach, it is because of the reprinting of Duress and for the flexibility of the removal package.
Having a crap ton of reactive answers to threats aren`t going to help you if your opponent is able to actually resolve something. Fatal Push , Cast Out , Ixalan`s Binding (perhaps?), Fumigate , Vraska`s Contempt , Doomfall and Trial of Ambition offer a varied and tool-boxy suite that can answer every threat in Standard. Also, Lost Legacy and Dispossess can absolutely devastate much of the meta alone (These are proactive, so I recommend these out of the side-board, of course)
I don`t have a list to offer at the moment, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the archetype.
Pretty much my opinion on everything. Search For Azcanta sounds amazing on paper, but it does nothing to the board, and you might be dead by the time it gets rolling. I like the pseudo-scry, but I'd rather kill my opponent's creatures, or prevent them from resolving. I also think Hostage Taker is way overrated, especially when Gonti, Lord Of Luxury exists. Gonti gives you options (including taking the Carnage Tyrant they were about to draw), and his deathtouch helps against MANY problem creatures. I took my Temur opponent's Chandra yesterday. There is no describing how stupid that was .
Nobody has touched on what I think is the real upcoming problem for control: Shapers' Sanctuary. I, personally, would rather play against Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant all day than play against this. I wanted to go Grixis for Bolas, but I'm staying Esper for Forsake The Worldly, along with Fumigate.
@Chaos021 and @NSCTripleAgent. Normally I am in the same camp for stuff as Chaos but as far as search for azcanta is concerned I am going to have to disagree here. The card is insane against anything thats not fast aggro decks. It filters draws and once you flip it the card almost feels like a Top. Every turn just getting the best of 4 cards is obnoxious and hard for pretty much everything to keep up with from a card advantage standpoint. Im playing 2 in my Esper list, see previous posts, and I love it. I have about 300 matches under my belt with that list to date and am 98% sure thats the list im going to nationals with in a couple weeks. We will see what happens this weekend at the SCG.
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"Wars may come and go but my soldiers, they are eternal."
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
@Chaos021 and @NSCTripleAgent. Normally I am in the same camp for stuff as Chaos but as far as search for azcanta is concerned I am going to have to disagree here. The card is insane against anything thats not fast aggro decks. It filters draws and once you flip it the card almost feels like a Top. Every turn just getting the best of 4 cards is obnoxious and hard for pretty much everything to keep up with from a card advantage standpoint. Im playing 2 in my Esper list, see previous posts, and I love it. I have about 300 matches under my belt with that list to date and am 98% sure thats the list im going to nationals with in a couple weeks. We will see what happens this weekend at the SCG.
Coming at this from a slightly different angle, I think I've got something here. I've been testing this list on cockatrice/xmage/untap and the other free testing sites since the spoilers first came out. I know those places are not a fantastic sample because people play cards they don't own, don't know all the rules, and there is no judge.
The biggest choice I made when starting was based on the meta. Looking at almost all of the top8 results of the past several various competitive tournaments, leagues, etc, every deck seems like a creature-based deck that wants to win with 2-3 critters on the board. That plus the newly printed Carnage Tyrant suggests to me that the IXA meta will be filled with decks that win with creatures. One other VERY important fact is that the 3 biggest reasons to not go ham on board wipes just rotated (avacyn, gideon ally of zendikar, selfless spirit)
Which is why I run 8 wrath effects.
Fumigate is an allstar once you get to 5 lands, which you will because of all the card filtration. Since this deck only runs 1 creature, Tocatli Honor Guard, what this card basically reads is 3WW: Destroy all your opponent's creatures, you gain 1 life for each creature killed this way. Pretty sweet.
Settle the Wreckage is F**KING INCREDIBLE. At 4 mana, it's just fast enough to save us vs Ramunap Red if we're on the draw, as even their quickest starts won't have us anywhere near dead by their turn 4. It's also the best answer we have vs Hazoret.
Tocatli Honor Guard is the only creature in the deck and he puts in some WORK. At 1/3, he's the perfect size chump blocker vs most cards in ramured, and his static ability turns earthshaker khenra and the rest of their etb critters into vastly worse versions of themselves. He's also a fantastic play vs Temur Energy, bricking their entire deck until removed. He also shuts down gearhulks and much much more. Truly an incredible card that hits a ton of cards that are very popular right now. He's easy to remove at 3 toughness, but even if he eats a lightning strike, it's worth it.
Search for Azcantl is low-key my favorite card in the deck. I only run 2 because it's legendary, but the first mode is a fantastic filtration engine, and the 2nd mode is insane inevitability that combos great once you windmill slam down your approach. Once it flips it almost feels like you're playing with divining top in standard, but better.
the rest of the choices are fairly obvious, 4x essence scatter mainboard over censors or anything else because creatures are the hottness in this meta. Essence Scatter is the best counter post-rotation no doubt in my mind, and I've never regretted having 4 mb. Once we're in g2 i can swap out a few or all if need be.
I'd love any thoughts. Scarab God is in my sb as my best way to win around a Gideon of the Trials which is otherwise a pretty tough-to-beat play vs this deck. He's also decent at gy interaction as all the gy cards right now are creatures and you can respond to their god pharaohs gift targeting a critter by stealing it yourself, if you were bad enough to let gift hit the battlefield and reach their combat step.
I've been considering vraska's contempt over never/return in the sb because i find myself wanting more ways to deal with hazoret than I currently have. If only declaration in stone were still legal.
The deck plays like a cross between a prison deck and a control deck. 8 wrath effects means I spend the first several turns establishing a board state with cards like honor guard and search, while using supreme will and essence scatter to keep their board relatively controlled. I will often let them resolve a few creatures turns 3 and 4, even allowing them to take a swing or two so they over-extend, then start raining down the fumigates and wrath-to-exiles. Finish off with Approach as a wincon and serve over-easy with a side of saltiness as they watch you durdle durdle durdle into a win.
I don't want to oversell this, but I have yet to face a deck that I don't think I have at least a 50% matchup against, and vs most decks (like ramured, temur energy, and other grindy creature-based midrange decks) I almost feel like i'm facerolling unless they have really good draws. Ramured is obviously the toughest matchup, although 8x wrath effects against a deck with zero protection from a wrath is pretty good MB, and once I can put in 3 Authority of the Consuls from the SB it feels like an unlosable matchup (unless I lose to variance and draw a ***** ton of lands or no lands at all)
Coming at this from a slightly different angle, I think I've got something here. I've been testing this list on cockatrice/xmage/untap and the other free testing sites since the spoilers first came out. I know those places are not a fantastic sample because people play cards they don't own, don't know all the rules, and there is no judge.
The biggest choice I made when starting was based on the meta. Looking at almost all of the top8 results of the past several various competitive tournaments, leagues, etc, every deck seems like a creature-based deck that wants to win with 2-3 critters on the board. That plus the newly printed Carnage Tyrant suggests to me that the IXA meta will be filled with decks that win with creatures. One other VERY important fact is that the 3 biggest reasons to not go ham on board wipes just rotated (avacyn, gideon ally of zendikar, selfless spirit)
Which is why I run 8 wrath effects.
Fumigate is an allstar once you get to 5 lands, which you will because of all the card filtration. Since this deck only runs 1 creature, Tocatli Honor Guard, what this card basically reads is 3WW: Destroy all your opponent's creatures, you gain 1 life for each creature killed this way. Pretty sweet.
Settle the Wreckage is F**KING INCREDIBLE. At 4 mana, it's just fast enough to save us vs Ramunap Red if we're on the draw, as even their quickest starts won't have us anywhere near dead by their turn 4. It's also the best answer we have vs Hazoret.
Tocatli Honor Guard is the only creature in the deck and he puts in some WORK. At 1/3, he's the perfect size chump blocker vs most cards in ramured, and his static ability turns earthshaker khenra and the rest of their etb critters into vastly worse versions of themselves. He's also a fantastic play vs Temur Energy, bricking their entire deck until removed. He also shuts down gearhulks and much much more. Truly an incredible card that hits a ton of cards that are very popular right now. He's easy to remove at 3 toughness, but even if he eats a lightning strike, it's worth it.
Search for Azcantl is low-key my favorite card in the deck. I only run 2 because it's legendary, but the first mode is a fantastic filtration engine, and the 2nd mode is insane inevitability that combos great once you windmill slam down your approach. Once it flips it almost feels like you're playing with divining top in standard, but better.
the rest of the choices are fairly obvious, 4x essence scatter mainboard over censors or anything else because creatures are the hottness in this meta. Essence Scatter is the best counter post-rotation no doubt in my mind, and I've never regretted having 4 mb. Once we're in g2 i can swap out a few or all if need be.
I'd love any thoughts. Scarab God is in my sb as my best way to win around a Gideon of the Trials which is otherwise a pretty tough-to-beat play vs this deck. He's also decent at gy interaction as all the gy cards right now are creatures and you can respond to their god pharaohs gift targeting a critter by stealing it yourself, if you were bad enough to let gift hit the battlefield and reach their combat step.
I've been considering vraska's contempt over never/return in the sb because i find myself wanting more ways to deal with hazoret than I currently have. If only declaration in stone were still legal.
The deck plays like a cross between a prison deck and a control deck. 8 wrath effects means I spend the first several turns establishing a board state with cards like honor guard and search, while using supreme will and essence scatter to keep their board relatively controlled. I will often let them resolve a few creatures turns 3 and 4, even allowing them to take a swing or two so they over-extend, then start raining down the fumigates and wrath-to-exiles. Finish off with Approach as a wincon and serve over-easy with a side of saltiness as they watch you durdle durdle durdle into a win.
I don't want to oversell this, but I have yet to face a deck that I don't think I have at least a 50% matchup against, and vs most decks (like ramured, temur energy, and other grindy creature-based midrange decks) I almost feel like i'm facerolling unless they have really good draws. Ramured is obviously the toughest matchup, although 8x wrath effects against a deck with zero protection from a wrath is pretty good MB, and once I can put in 3 Authority of the Consuls from the SB it feels like an unlosable matchup (unless I lose to variance and draw a ***** ton of lands or no lands at all)
VERY interesting. I agree on Vraska's Contempt over Never/Return. Mainly due to the instant speed, but the 2 life looks good for your end goal as well.
Your basic is list is similar to mine. With all your testing I have a few questions.
1) Has the 1 copy of approach been effective?
2) Has field of ruin been necessary? (I would want more more white sources for Settle the Wreckage.)
3) How has Settle the Wreckage performed as your board wipe?
4) When have you brought Vona in and how has it performed?
5) Why sanguine sacrament? I would think this would be bad against ramunap red and would want maybe another removal such as walk the plank (ugh), farm // market, skywhaler's shot, or slash of talons. Also, if you want lifegain ritual of rejuvenation seems better unless x > 3 because of the card drawn (often used ojutai's command to draw and gain 4 life for 4 mana).
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https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/finding-the-right-approach/
Also, I have no problems with lists like this being in this thread. It's technically control, and Approach isn't the only win-con, so isn't really applicable to the dedicated UW Approach threads. Like NSC, I also took the mentality of just durdling around and always holding one counter in hand once I knew I was playing against an Approach deck. However, with something like a Scarab God as an alternate, it give opponents something to think about...
4 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
2 Field of Ruin
4 Aether Hub
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Island
4 Drowned Catacomb
Win Conditions
1 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 The Scarab God
4 Fatal Push
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Doomfall
2 Cast Out
3 Settle the Wreckage
Counters
3 Censor
2 Essence Scatter
3 Disallow
Draw
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Glimmer of Genius
3 Opt
Other
1 Sanguine Sacrament
3 Duress
2 Negate
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Entrancing Melody
2 Forsake the Worldly
2 Lost Legacy
2 Vona, Butcher of Magan
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
The main issue is that Ishkanah was pretty vital to the reason for being Sultai. It was just so good at gumming up the board and Traverse was super good too. Now there is really not much reason to run green anymore which is the problem. Carnage Tyrant can be a powerful finisher, but it's not great at stabilizing the board like Ishkanah or Thragtusk of standards past. That being said going just UB is still a powerful choice. Hostage Taker can create very powerful situations and the 5 mana lily is powerful.
Dont mess with the numbers too much. Ive pretty much tweaked the numbers as much as they can be. lol
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
4x Aether Hub
1x Desert of the Glorified
2x Desert of the Mindful
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Fetid Pools
2x Field of Ruin
1x Island
8x Swamp
Enchantment (2)
2x Search for Azcanta
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana, Death's Majesty
Instant (16)
3x Censor
2x Essence Scatter
4x Fatal Push
2x Glimmer of Genius
1x Spell Swindle
2x Supreme Will
2x Vraska's Contempt
2x Champion of Wits
2x Hostage Taker
1x Noxious Gearhulk
2x The Scarab God
2x Torrential Gearhulk
Sorcery (5)
2x Doomfall
1x Walk the Plank
2x Yahenni's Expertise
1x Confiscation Coup
3x Duress
2x Essence Extraction
3x Gifted Aetherborn
2x Lost Legacy
2x Negate
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
Also, do you guys think Vraska, Relic Seeker could work as a wincon? she doesn't seem that impressive to me, but I got one in my prerelease and wanted to try it out. Seems green for T6 could easily be splashable, since Aether Hub already gives you 4 sources and cantrips and draws give you half each.
I feel like any deck that tries to Approach as a wincon either runs 4 or 3, either that or none. Perhaps take out Sanguine and one or two copies of doomfall for more copies of Approaches?
The reason for approach is because it is a win con that you can easily get to that cant be killed off the field. Its good against the control mirror, slower mid-range decks, and the ramp decks. Against fast aggro decks or tempo you can board it out easily for whatever you need. Plus if you get it to work game one against black decks they tend to bring in lost legacy against you. If you kept in approach then they one for one and dont get your more important spells in the match, and if you took it out approach then they 1 for 0 and they probably wasted a turn. Also taking out sanguine makes your game one against red very worse and the doomfall are for things like carnage tyrant. Also adding more 7 drops into the deck seems poor when we also have 5 and 6 mana win cons.
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Here's my foundation.
3 Hostage Taker
2 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Search for Azcanta
4 Supreme Will
4 Fatal Push
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Then we have some optional packages.
First, the energy package:
1 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Aether Hub
4 Glimmer of Genius
Choose One
3 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Lightning Strike
I personally like Shielded Aether Thief. He reminds me of Wall of Omens but on our primary color and stands in front of Ramunap Red creatures. Also, Glimmer of Genius is a very powerful magic card.
Another Option is the Cycling package
Cycling Package
2 Irrigated Farmland
3 Fetid Pools
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
3 Cast Out
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Censor
2 Renewed Faith
Choose one
2 Abandoned Sarcophagus
2 Drake Haven
2 Faith of the Devoted
of the two packages mentioned, I've had the most success with the energy package thanks to the inevitability provided by Torrential Gearhulk into Glimmer of Genius, as well as the early game wall of Shielded Aether Thief. The Cycling package has performed well, but its much more vulnerable to Ramunap Red than the energy package. One thing the Cycling package has going for it is the added sideboard options and the good matchup vs the Mono Blue sky pirates deck.
Let's assemble the energy package with the foundation:
2 Scarab God
3 Hostage Taker
3 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Search for Azcanta
4 Supreme Will
4 Fatal Push
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Glimmer of Genius
Then the Splash
Green
2 Nissa, Steward of the Elements
3 Life goes On
White Splash
3 Cast out
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Renewed Faith
I love Vraska so much, and feel that she is one of the most powerful closers. She clocks and protects with her +2, her -3 kills another problem permanent and grants you a Revolt-generating Treasure for Fatal Push. Nissa is also a great closer as well as a great three drop against control. She sets up every draw and allows your Azcantas to dig a big further. I love the green splash.
The white splash seems much more controlling. Vona provides some lifelink and the ability to kill problem permanents. Cast out also takes out problematic permanents, but at instant speed. Settle the Wreckage helps a lot against Carnage Tyrant and some fringe board-swarming strategies. Approach also just happens to win the game. Lets plug in the white splash and see where we are at.
2 Scarab God
3 Hostage Taker
3 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Search for Azcanta
4 Supreme Will
4 Fatal Push
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Vona, Butcher of Magan
3 Cast out
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Renewed Faith
Wow, that's 38 non-lands, giving us only room for 22 lands. I require 25 with this deck, seeing as Azcanta turns into additional mana and we have good filter. Let's make a 25 land mana base.
White Splash
4 Aether Hub
3 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
4 Drowned Catacombs
3 Glacial Chasm
3 Swamp
6 Island
Green Splash
2 Fetid Pools
3 Botanical Sanctum
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Aether Hub
1 Forest
5 Island
4 Swamp
Making a few cuts to the UBw list (we don't need 2 Bontu's and 2 Settle and we're also creature heavy, lets cut the Bontu's and a Scarab God)
4 Aether Hub
3 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
4 Drowned Catacombs
3 Glacial Chasm
3 Swamp
6 Island
Creature
1 Scarab God
3 Hostage Taker
3 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Shielded Aether Thief
2 Vona, Butcher of Magan
3 Search for Azcanta
3 Cast out
Instant
4 Supreme Will
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Renewed Faith
I don't like Approach with so many creatures and so little permission. I also feel that the deck is too creature heavy. Vona could easily be a sideboard card, as could a Shielded Aether Thief. Lets add in a few Essence Scatters, Censors and Disallows.
Let's also round out the sideboard and tweak the main deck a little.
4 Aether Hub
3 Fetid Pools
2 Irrigated Farmland
4 Drowned Catacombs
3 Glacial Chasm
3 Swamp
6 Island
Creature (9)
1 Scarab God
3 Hostage Taker
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Search for Azcanta
2 Cast out
Instant (21)
4 Supreme Will
4 Fatal Push
4 Glimmer of Genius
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
3 Censor
2 Cast Out
3 Renewed Faith
2 Vona, Butcher of Magan
2 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Vraska's Contempt
3 Negate
This is the direction I'll go with the deck. The reason I have all of this spelled out, is if I'm wrong somewhere in my rationale, please let me know. Thanks for reading!
And because you didn't ask for it, here's the Green splash final* decklist:
2 Fetid Pools
3 Botanical Sanctum
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Aether Hub
1 Forest
5 Island
4 Swamp
Creature (9)
2 Scarab God
2 Hostage Taker
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Shielded Aether Thief
3 Search for Azcanta
Instant (17)
3 Supreme Will
3 Glimmer of Genius
4 Fatal Push
2 Essence Scatter
2 Disallow
3 Censor
Planeswalker (4)
2 Nissa, Steward of the Elements
2 Vraska, Relic Seeker
Sorcery (2)
2 Yahenni's Expertise
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Duress
2 Essence Extraction
3 Life Goes On
2 Negate
2 Spell Pierce
As far as your final list, good luck. I believe your deck is too slow and doesn't have enough early removal. You're praying to get all the early creatures with Fatal Push or Essence Scatter. Well that's a fine idea, except it seems this deck would fold up shop to Ramunap Red. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to defend yourself on the play from a cursory look.
Also, what's the point of Nissa, Steward of Elements? She doesn't protect you and she doesn't provide any particular utility that's necessary. If you're not making land drops with the cycling and card selection that's available to you, then I think there's something wrong with the setup. Other than that, what's good about her?
Search for Azcanta has been underwhelming in testing. It's possibly decent in God-Pharaoh's Gift decks since it's another enabler, but I think they have enough to do with their mana on most turns that they don't necessarily need it. I think Opt would be better for us in that slot than Search.
Hostage Taker seems questionable. Mostly because you either want to permanently deal with a problem instead of possibly getting blown out in combat, or you're trying to do things with it that are more along the lines of a tempo deck. I believe it would make a little more sense in a midrange build where a tempo advantage could be helpful, but that doesn't seem to be the aim of the deck. I could be wrong. I would suggest just more removal in that slot (Walk the Plank or Vraska's Contempt) or even Harsh Scrutiny since information and scrying is never bad. Not to mention, the beginning of a new Standard set tends to be focused on aggro decks. Amonkhet was a bit of an outlier.
Also, Search for Azcanta is not simply to fill the yard (which it does), it's also to set up your draws, prevent flood or prevent screw, and mid game it becomes another land with an unbelievable ability.
As for Hostage Taker, he's our out against Hazoret or Rhonas. He's also great at stealing Opposing Scarab Gods or Glorybringers. He's also a nice combat trick to be brought back with your own Scarab God. Hostage taker is one of the best cards in the deck and probably one of the top three cards of Ixalan.
To answer your questions about the green list, Nissa is there to set up draws and provide a clock. Her scry 2 is always relevant, her zero can be fun to set up a free play of hostage taker or Scarab God or Torrential Gearhulk. Her Ult is simply 10 damage, or two more mana should you need it (ouch).
Have you actually tested any of this online? I ask because Ramunap Red makes your list look bad, and it's the clear frontrunner right now. Gifted Aetherborn and Contraband Kingpin are just better against Mono-Red than Shielded Aether Thief. The Thief is a nice idea for when you have time, but they won't be giving that to you unless their decks just falls apart on itself.
It's also slow. The control decks for this format don't need more slow stuff that doesn't have an effect on the board. Feel free to do whatever you want though. It's just an opinion on a card I have tested.
Umm, you do know Vraska's Contempt will be legal right? It's also permanent and instant-speed.
I think you overestimate the speed of the format. Maybe come SCG Dallas everyone takes a different turn than what I'm seeing, but if what's happening online is any indication, you're going to be in a lot of trouble with the green splash.
I'm torn on Settle the Wreckage. It seems to solve some problems, but I really hated giving my opponents lands, which also filters their draws. I also don't like it being conditional to all attacking creatures, but then it wouldn't work so well against the hexproof stuff. I'm wondering if we just need to play unconditional sweepers.
A lot of the pro control lists I've seen are talking about Search for Azcanta. Like them though, I can see it being a 1-of in lists. Shaheen Soorani's list runs 3 Opt and 1 Search, which I think is a nice balance.
Hostage Taker is one that I can see going either way. I'm actually thinking of sneaking it in to the Kalitas 4-drop slot - a 1-of main to go with 3 Hulk and 3 Gods, and then a second in the side for the slower mid-range matchups. I absolutely wouldn't consider the second against Red, but would rather go with more board wipes, counters and removal.
This is where I am right now...
1 Hostage Taker
3 The Scarab God
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells (27)
4 Fatal Push
3 Opt
3 Censor
2 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
2 Walk the Plank
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Disallow
4 Glimmer of Genius
3 Vraska's Contempt
4 Aether Hub
1 Desert of the Glorified
1 Desert of the Mindful
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Fetid Pools
4 Island
2 Submerged Boneyard
6 Swamp
2 Spell Pierce
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
3 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Negate
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Doomfall
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Hostage Taker
1 Vizier of Many Faces
With the reprinting of ally checklands, Esper colors can be easily set up and Aether Hub is relevant when playing 4 Glimmer of Genius (Did we agree that this should still be a playset?)
The reason I think Esper is the way is because this type of control cannot utilize Bontu`s Last Reckoning to it`s fullest potential. I`d go so far as to say you will likely lose if they advance their board after you resolve a Bontu`s.
So, because of that reasoning, I think Fumigate is going to be one of the strongest cards in the 75. If you`re asking why going Esper is, in my opinion, the best option for Draw-Go at the moment, as opposed to UW Approach, it is because of the reprinting of Duress and for the flexibility of the removal package.
Having a crap ton of reactive answers to threats aren`t going to help you if your opponent is able to actually resolve something. Fatal Push , Cast Out , Ixalan`s Binding (perhaps?), Fumigate , Vraska`s Contempt , Doomfall and Trial of Ambition offer a varied and tool-boxy suite that can answer every threat in Standard. Also, Lost Legacy and Dispossess can absolutely devastate much of the meta alone (These are proactive, so I recommend these out of the side-board, of course)
I don`t have a list to offer at the moment, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the archetype.
Pretty much my opinion on everything. Search For Azcanta sounds amazing on paper, but it does nothing to the board, and you might be dead by the time it gets rolling. I like the pseudo-scry, but I'd rather kill my opponent's creatures, or prevent them from resolving. I also think Hostage Taker is way overrated, especially when Gonti, Lord Of Luxury exists. Gonti gives you options (including taking the Carnage Tyrant they were about to draw), and his deathtouch helps against MANY problem creatures. I took my Temur opponent's Chandra yesterday. There is no describing how stupid that was .
Nobody has touched on what I think is the real upcoming problem for control: Shapers' Sanctuary. I, personally, would rather play against Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant all day than play against this. I wanted to go Grixis for Bolas, but I'm staying Esper for Forsake The Worldly, along with Fumigate.
Standard: Whatever Control is Best
Modern: Nothing
Legacy; Miracles RIP
Can we see your list?
That said, in 166 matches i've won 128.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
4 Tocatli Honor Guard
4 Opt
4 Essence Scatter
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Supreme Will
4 Fumigate
4 Settle the Wreckage
2 Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the sunken ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Fetid Pools
3 Irrigated Farmland
2 Concealed Courtyard
3 Swamp
3 Island
5 Plains
2 The Scarab God
3 Never // Return
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Spell Pierce
4 Negate
The biggest choice I made when starting was based on the meta. Looking at almost all of the top8 results of the past several various competitive tournaments, leagues, etc, every deck seems like a creature-based deck that wants to win with 2-3 critters on the board. That plus the newly printed Carnage Tyrant suggests to me that the IXA meta will be filled with decks that win with creatures. One other VERY important fact is that the 3 biggest reasons to not go ham on board wipes just rotated (avacyn, gideon ally of zendikar, selfless spirit)
Which is why I run 8 wrath effects.
Fumigate is an allstar once you get to 5 lands, which you will because of all the card filtration. Since this deck only runs 1 creature, Tocatli Honor Guard, what this card basically reads is 3WW: Destroy all your opponent's creatures, you gain 1 life for each creature killed this way. Pretty sweet.
Settle the Wreckage is F**KING INCREDIBLE. At 4 mana, it's just fast enough to save us vs Ramunap Red if we're on the draw, as even their quickest starts won't have us anywhere near dead by their turn 4. It's also the best answer we have vs Hazoret.
Tocatli Honor Guard is the only creature in the deck and he puts in some WORK. At 1/3, he's the perfect size chump blocker vs most cards in ramured, and his static ability turns earthshaker khenra and the rest of their etb critters into vastly worse versions of themselves. He's also a fantastic play vs Temur Energy, bricking their entire deck until removed. He also shuts down gearhulks and much much more. Truly an incredible card that hits a ton of cards that are very popular right now. He's easy to remove at 3 toughness, but even if he eats a lightning strike, it's worth it.
Search for Azcantl is low-key my favorite card in the deck. I only run 2 because it's legendary, but the first mode is a fantastic filtration engine, and the 2nd mode is insane inevitability that combos great once you windmill slam down your approach. Once it flips it almost feels like you're playing with divining top in standard, but better.
the rest of the choices are fairly obvious, 4x essence scatter mainboard over censors or anything else because creatures are the hottness in this meta. Essence Scatter is the best counter post-rotation no doubt in my mind, and I've never regretted having 4 mb. Once we're in g2 i can swap out a few or all if need be.
I'd love any thoughts. Scarab God is in my sb as my best way to win around a Gideon of the Trials which is otherwise a pretty tough-to-beat play vs this deck. He's also decent at gy interaction as all the gy cards right now are creatures and you can respond to their god pharaohs gift targeting a critter by stealing it yourself, if you were bad enough to let gift hit the battlefield and reach their combat step.
I've been considering vraska's contempt over never/return in the sb because i find myself wanting more ways to deal with hazoret than I currently have. If only declaration in stone were still legal.
The deck plays like a cross between a prison deck and a control deck. 8 wrath effects means I spend the first several turns establishing a board state with cards like honor guard and search, while using supreme will and essence scatter to keep their board relatively controlled. I will often let them resolve a few creatures turns 3 and 4, even allowing them to take a swing or two so they over-extend, then start raining down the fumigates and wrath-to-exiles. Finish off with Approach as a wincon and serve over-easy with a side of saltiness as they watch you durdle durdle durdle into a win.
I don't want to oversell this, but I have yet to face a deck that I don't think I have at least a 50% matchup against, and vs most decks (like ramured, temur energy, and other grindy creature-based midrange decks) I almost feel like i'm facerolling unless they have really good draws. Ramured is obviously the toughest matchup, although 8x wrath effects against a deck with zero protection from a wrath is pretty good MB, and once I can put in 3 Authority of the Consuls from the SB it feels like an unlosable matchup (unless I lose to variance and draw a ***** ton of lands or no lands at all)
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
VERY interesting. I agree on Vraska's Contempt over Never/Return. Mainly due to the instant speed, but the 2 life looks good for your end goal as well.
Your basic is list is similar to mine. With all your testing I have a few questions.
1) Has the 1 copy of approach been effective?
2) Has field of ruin been necessary? (I would want more more white sources for Settle the Wreckage.)
3) How has Settle the Wreckage performed as your board wipe?
4) When have you brought Vona in and how has it performed?
5) Why sanguine sacrament? I would think this would be bad against ramunap red and would want maybe another removal such as walk the plank (ugh), farm // market, skywhaler's shot, or slash of talons. Also, if you want lifegain ritual of rejuvenation seems better unless x > 3 because of the card drawn (often used ojutai's command to draw and gain 4 life for 4 mana).