I'll say it again that Commit // Memory is a great all around answer this deck needs. It removes everything that can't be burned. Yes you'll see that permanent/spell again in a few turns, but you can either try to dig for a counterspell or just alpha strike the other player before they can recast it. Besides Censor I have a two Essence Scatters in my main board just for the purpose of countering creatures that are hard to deal with.
You could also try jeskai and have declaration in stone as well as Nahiri as your answers.
Speaking of Nahiri, I'm tempted to try out one or two Torrential Gearhulks in my list just to make the deck feel like it has bunch of well rounded options to pull out with her ultimate. Bedlam Reveler draws three, a sudden extra enigma drake can alpha strike from the air and then the gearhulk would allow me to have an option that lets me flash back a piece of removal to help the creatures without flying to get in enough damage, or maybe just flashback a Fiery Temper to burn an opponent the rest of the way on a clogged board.
I'll say it again that Commit // Memory is a great all around answer this deck needs. It removes everything that can't be burned. Yes you'll see that permanent/spell again in a few turns, but you can either try to dig for a counterspell or just alpha strike the other player before they can recast it. Besides Censor I have a two Essence Scatters in my main board just for the purpose of countering creatures that are hard to deal with.
You could also try jeskai and have declaration in stone as well as Nahiri as your answers.
Speaking of Nahiri, I'm tempted to try out one or two Torrential Gearhulks in my list just to make the deck feel like it has bunch of well rounded options to pull out with her ultimate. Bedlam Reveler draws three, a sudden extra enigma drake can alpha strike from the air and then the gearhulk would allow me to have an option that lets me flash back a piece of removal to help the creatures without flying to get in enough damage, or maybe just flashback a Fiery Temper to burn an opponent the rest of the way on a clogged board.
You're moving along the same lines of thought that I did here. I'd caution you that moving TOO far into a control-esque list noticeably affects the consistency of your drake gameplan and can actually lead to worse overall performance. As khaos mentioned in our discussion above, one of the main functional components of the deck is keeping the curve as low as possible, and as awesome as hulks are, they kind of don't play nice with that philosophy. Definitely could be a board consideration especially if you have a grindy local meta, but in my own experience with them in main I'd recommend either building far more toward UR control or sticking with the original low-to-the-ground cycling + cheap beaters gameplan.
Burn from within is also what I chose to run when I wasn't splashing to deal with troublesome guys. If you're splashing white, Cast Out is a pretty easy choice at least for board; even though it cycles, it doesn't pump our dudes, sadly. Declaration in Stone might be better if you find yourself low on spells.
All that being said, glad to see some of you are liking the Nahiri additions - she feels good in this deck, but getting the list right with her in it is pretty challenging. Keep on testing and let us know how things pan out for you!
You're moving along the same lines of thought that I did here. I'd caution you that moving TOO far into a control-esque list noticeably affects the consistency of your drake gameplan and can actually lead to worse overall performance. As khaos mentioned in our discussion above, one of the main functional components of the deck is keeping the curve as low as possible, and as awesome as hulks are, they kind of don't play nice with that philosophy. Definitely could be a board consideration especially if you have a grindy local meta, but in my own experience with them in main I'd recommend either building far more toward UR control or sticking with the original low-to-the-ground cycling + cheap beaters gameplan.
I see what you mean, truthfully I think the Gearhulk will end up as something I'll bring in from the sideboard when facing control or midrange.
On a side note, for those who are using Catharic Reunion in a more mid-rangey list, I've tested out Geistblast and kind of love it as a two-of. It has similar uses as Insult // Injury, but plays like an opposite version where you can cast injury from your hand and insult from your graveyard. It synergizes well with reunion, since you can discard it to reunion and then immediately use it's ability to copy the spell as long as you have the mana open. This gives added insurance against running reunion into a counterspell and also can help you double up on the insult part of Insult // Injury which effectively makes a 5/4 drake hit for 20 damage.
Thought I'd update and say I went to the shop to pickup the cards I needed. Surprisingly I got the suns I needed,even more surprisingly they only had 2 drakes >.< Looks like I'm sticking with UR control this week.
I saw the talk about splashing white instead of green to take care of big creatures and I have to say I think the Temur version can hold its own. You just have to play Harnessed Lightning. Harnessed Lightning, Attune with Aether, and Aether Hubs are enough to keep your energy high and its easy to kill a gearhulk or whatever you are worried about. (I also ran Dissenter's Deliverance that killed a couple Gearhulks itself.) Anyway, this is the deck to my Standard Showdown today.
It felt really powerful except against a UB control match I had where I just couldn't stick a threat. I will say that a card that I did not like was Insult/Injury. I found that a lot of the time my opponent had enough removal to keep my board down and I didn't have a good time to use it. I would have rather had more Blossoming Defense, another threat, or a way to find threats (Anticipate or another Grapple with the past).
I've been feeling the same way about Insult lately. On the one hand it's great when i'm using it to swing for 14 damage and kill with drake out of nowhere, but it often feels like win-more in testing. I might try dropping it entirely and playing Negate. My reasoning for this is that the vast majority of the spells that we want to deal with are noncreature. I find myself boarding in Negate more than anything else really.
has anyone tried splashing black for collective brutality? I think the three modes are relevant and can help pump out drakes too, using black also gives access to fatal push, never and a few more discard spells.
I would love to go Grixis, but I think the mana is too slow. The strength of Temur or Jeskai is that you can run 8 of the enemy fast lands. In Grixis you only get 4 of them and your allied lands are gonna come in tapped most turns. This ends up being pretty rough on the deck since you want to be deploying threats and cycling/discarding cards as soon as possible. If you get a list working though, I would love to see it. It would be like a standard Grixis Delver!
I see where you are going with that and I agree, having only 4 fast lands is a problem, but since we still have the showlands, I think it can be worked around. So far on the top of my head I'd do something like this for a grixis list
As you can see its a very rough draft of what I had in mind, the sideboard is for a more control match up while the main 60 plays like a dynavolt control deck with gearhulk providing another late game threat.
Its a good card and can really close the game, but I think it's better suited to a control shell than this one.
How do you guys feel bout including call the bloodline? It's a discard outlet and gives you blockers too, makes fiery temper and alm of veins much more usable and mana efficient + synergizes with drake haven better than dynavolt tower.
Maybe as a sb against grindier matchups. We already have collective brutality in that B 2 spot. I also play TiTi and incendiary flow so for me it's a no go.
Maybe as a sb against grindier matchups. We already have collective brutality in that B 2 spot. I also play TiTi and incendiary flow so for me it's a no go.
Mind sharing your list? Or did I miss it in the previous page? Yeah incendiary flow is a good burn spell deals with scrapheap and pesky zombies.
I've ran a similar deck as this in my FNM and I've tested it a lot with all my friends. Here is my spin off of it and just some of my own 2 cents. Sorry in advance I'm a noob at posting deck lists haha.
Everything is pretty straight forward control. I love combustible gearhulk over bedlam Reveler. It's a personal preference. Yes I'm spending more mana to cast him but theres a different payout in the end IMO. I'll explain why I'm striving to put him in the deck. I have been wanting to find a way to put Saheeli Rai in somehow but I am struggling. Her +1 is amazing for the deck seeing as you can look at what you'll be getting next from Fevered Visions. Don't like it? Put it on the bottom of your library! Her -2 would do wonders with copying Dynavolt to obtain more energy for burns! If I could find a 3rd artifact to pull out her -7 then the fun would begin. Don't have your Gearhulk out yet? Now you do. Need more energy? Now you have it. Etc etc. Thoughts?
I've barely had time to play with it though. Still working on the sb, maybe i'm going to try out a second cut // ribbons and 2 more collective brutality. I was thinking about dispossess as well to bring in against marvel and vehicles
My only match loss was to Aetherworks, no surprise lol. The Curious Homunculus were stellar, coming down with counter backup fairly early and flipping the next turn provided a lot of pressure and drew removal for the bigger guys to come down safe, and if it didn't flip that turn they were a nice mana boost . The redundancy in most of the cards made me not really like Bedlam Reveler as much as I had hoped for and I'll probably go down to 1. Release the Gremlins was a bomb out of the side, being a sorcery, a body, and killing an artifact was such a huge tempo boost and I will go up to 3 copies. Having 7 burn spells that exile was fantastic and 7 that can go to the head when needed closed out games quickly from "safe" life totals. I was extremely pleased with how the deck played.
The idea is to burn early threats while baiting removal and forcing some damage with stormchaser mage. Around turn four/five, we want to start dropping Drakes and Constructrs. The idea is that either of these represents a 1-2 turn clock. Both Stormchaser Mage and Enigma Drake survive sweltering sun.
Big news with the marvelworks ban! We just lost one of our worst matchups, hooray!
I think this deck might be poised to steal some wins now. Our other worst matchup is Izzet Control, which just lost one of their best matchups so will likely see less play.
Censor is really good, especially on the play to catch relevant on curve drops, if they play around it we can just cycle, and the cycling is extra good for this deck. I main Negate because it catches such a huge amount of cards and depend on my burn for the creatures. Essence Scatters come in for the bigger creatures.
Yeah with marvel gone, I think u/w flash and temur energy will be on the rise again. That just means we need more cards for pinpoint removal and essence scatter may take the place of negate main board. The problem again would be pesky gideons so its either we lock it down or play never/again to get around it.
Also a question, if I have a gideon attacking me and I use a card to tap it with a condition saying it wont untap, does that follow that gideon goes back to his planeswalker form unable to untap the following turn and therefore can't use any abilities?
Also a question, if I have a gideon attacking me and I use a card to tap it with a condition saying it wont untap, does that follow that gideon goes back to his planeswalker form unable to untap the following turn and therefore can't use any abilities?
I'm not sure if he will untap or not, but if he stays tapped, his abilities can still be activated.
Also, has anyone tested Scatter to the Winds? It seems like it would be great here, giving us an extra threat late and a hard counter. It also makes our Wandering Fumarole huge.
Also a question, if I have a gideon attacking me and I use a card to tap it with a condition saying it wont untap, does that follow that gideon goes back to his planeswalker form unable to untap the following turn and therefore can't use any abilities?
I'm not sure if he will untap or not, but if he stays tapped, his abilities can still be activated.
Also, has anyone tested Scatter to the Winds? It seems like it would be great here, giving us an extra threat late and a hard counter. It also makes our Wandering Fumarole huge.
Pretty much what I was curious about since deadlock trap does tap walkers, rendering them useless.
Also while scatter to the winds gives you a late game threat disallow was better poised to stop marvel activations, ulamog trigger and gives you a hard counter.
But with marvel gone, scatter may become good again along with ruinous path.
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You could also try jeskai and have declaration in stone as well as Nahiri as your answers.
Speaking of Nahiri, I'm tempted to try out one or two Torrential Gearhulks in my list just to make the deck feel like it has bunch of well rounded options to pull out with her ultimate. Bedlam Reveler draws three, a sudden extra enigma drake can alpha strike from the air and then the gearhulk would allow me to have an option that lets me flash back a piece of removal to help the creatures without flying to get in enough damage, or maybe just flashback a Fiery Temper to burn an opponent the rest of the way on a clogged board.
You're moving along the same lines of thought that I did here. I'd caution you that moving TOO far into a control-esque list noticeably affects the consistency of your drake gameplan and can actually lead to worse overall performance. As khaos mentioned in our discussion above, one of the main functional components of the deck is keeping the curve as low as possible, and as awesome as hulks are, they kind of don't play nice with that philosophy. Definitely could be a board consideration especially if you have a grindy local meta, but in my own experience with them in main I'd recommend either building far more toward UR control or sticking with the original low-to-the-ground cycling + cheap beaters gameplan.
Burn from within is also what I chose to run when I wasn't splashing to deal with troublesome guys. If you're splashing white, Cast Out is a pretty easy choice at least for board; even though it cycles, it doesn't pump our dudes, sadly.
Declaration in Stone might be better if you find yourself low on spells.
All that being said, glad to see some of you are liking the Nahiri additions - she feels good in this deck, but getting the list right with her in it is pretty challenging. Keep on testing and let us know how things pan out for you!
I see what you mean, truthfully I think the Gearhulk will end up as something I'll bring in from the sideboard when facing control or midrange.
On a side note, for those who are using Catharic Reunion in a more mid-rangey list, I've tested out Geistblast and kind of love it as a two-of. It has similar uses as Insult // Injury, but plays like an opposite version where you can cast injury from your hand and insult from your graveyard. It synergizes well with reunion, since you can discard it to reunion and then immediately use it's ability to copy the spell as long as you have the mana open. This gives added insurance against running reunion into a counterspell and also can help you double up on the insult part of Insult // Injury which effectively makes a 5/4 drake hit for 20 damage.
Standard:
UR Control
4x Enigma Drake
4x Cryptic Serpent
2x Bedlam Reveler
2x Blossoming Defense
4x Censor
2x Dissenter's Deliverance
3x Grapple with the Past
4x Harnessed Lightning
3x Hieroglyphic Illumination
4x Magma Spray
2x Insult/Injury
2x Sweltering Suns
4x Aether Hub
4x Botanical Sanctum
2x Forest
2x Island
2x Mountain
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Wandering Fumarole
1x Brutal Expulsion
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Dispel
2x Essence Scatter
4x Fevered Visions
2x Negate
3x Thing in the Ice
It felt really powerful except against a UB control match I had where I just couldn't stick a threat. I will say that a card that I did not like was Insult/Injury. I found that a lot of the time my opponent had enough removal to keep my board down and I didn't have a good time to use it. I would have rather had more Blossoming Defense, another threat, or a way to find threats (Anticipate or another Grapple with the past).
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
2 mountain
3 swamp
2 fetid pools
2 canyon slough
4 spirebluff canal
3 choked estuary
2 forbodding ruins
1 sunken hollow
1 smoldering marsh
4 enigma drake
3 bedlam reveler
2 torential gearhulk
4 censor
4 heirogliphic illumination
2 magma spray
2 fatal push
4 drake heaven
2 unlicensed disentegration
2 collective brutality
1 avacyn's judgment
3 dynavolt tower
3 alms of the vein
2 transgress the mind
1 collective brutality
2 chandra, torch of defiance
2 negate
3 disallow
2 sweltering suns
As you can see its a very rough draft of what I had in mind, the sideboard is for a more control match up while the main 60 plays like a dynavolt control deck with gearhulk providing another late game threat.
How do you guys feel bout including call the bloodline? It's a discard outlet and gives you blockers too, makes fiery temper and alm of veins much more usable and mana efficient + synergizes with drake haven better than dynavolt tower.
Mind sharing your list? Or did I miss it in the previous page? Yeah incendiary flow is a good burn spell deals with scrapheap and pesky zombies.
Creatures:
Enigma Drake-4
Combustible Gearhulk-2
Counter Spells:
Censor- 4
Essence Scatter-2
Reduce // Rubble-4
Burn:
Magma Spray-4
Dynavolt Tower-3
Harnessed Lightning-4
Sweltering Suns-2
Fevered Visions-3
Card Advantage:
Glimmer of Genius-4
Pull from Tomorrow-1
**See Fevered Visions**
Land:
Spirebluff Canal-4
Aether Hub-4
Wandering Fumarole-4
Island-5
Mountain-6
Everything is pretty straight forward control. I love combustible gearhulk over bedlam Reveler. It's a personal preference. Yes I'm spending more mana to cast him but theres a different payout in the end IMO. I'll explain why I'm striving to put him in the deck. I have been wanting to find a way to put Saheeli Rai in somehow but I am struggling. Her +1 is amazing for the deck seeing as you can look at what you'll be getting next from Fevered Visions. Don't like it? Put it on the bottom of your library! Her -2 would do wonders with copying Dynavolt to obtain more energy for burns! If I could find a 3rd artifact to pull out her -7 then the fun would begin. Don't have your Gearhulk out yet? Now you do. Need more energy? Now you have it. Etc etc. Thoughts?
4x Enigma Drake
4x Thermo-Alchemist
3x Thing in the Ice
Instants;
2x Negate
2x Void Shatter
4x Fiery Temper
3x Anticipate
1x Pull from Tomorrow
Sorceries;
3x Incendiary Flow
3x Collective Defiance
2x Sweltering Suns
2x Collective Brutality
1x Cut // Ribbons
2x Fevered Visions
Pws;
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands;
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Wandering Fumarole
3x Foreboding Ruins
2x Canyon Slough
2x Choked Estuary
1x Fetid Pools
3x Mountain
2x Island
2x Swamp
2x Sweltering Suns
2x By Force
2x Burn from Within
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x Glorybringer
2x Disallow
2x Fevered Visions
2x Alms of the Vein
I've barely had time to play with it though. Still working on the sb, maybe i'm going to try out a second cut // ribbons and 2 more collective brutality. I was thinking about dispossess as well to bring in against marvel and vehicles
3 Curious Homunculus
4 Enigma Drake
4 Cryptic Serpent
2 Bedlam Reveler
Instants/Sorceries
4 Censor
3 Negate
3 Shock
3 Magma Spray
4 Incendiary Flow
3 Sweltering Suns
2 Cathartic Reunion
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Highland Lake
5 Mountain
5 Island
Side
3 By Force
2 Release the Gremlins
3 Essence Scatter
2 Collective Defiance
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
1 Saheeli's Artistry
1 Void Shatter
My only match loss was to Aetherworks, no surprise lol. The Curious Homunculus were stellar, coming down with counter backup fairly early and flipping the next turn provided a lot of pressure and drew removal for the bigger guys to come down safe, and if it didn't flip that turn they were a nice mana boost . The redundancy in most of the cards made me not really like Bedlam Reveler as much as I had hoped for and I'll probably go down to 1. Release the Gremlins was a bomb out of the side, being a sorcery, a body, and killing an artifact was such a huge tempo boost and I will go up to 3 copies. Having 7 burn spells that exile was fantastic and 7 that can go to the head when needed closed out games quickly from "safe" life totals. I was extremely pleased with how the deck played.
Needs moar Delver.
4 enigma drake
4 crackdown construct
4 shock
4 harnessed lightning
3 sweltering suns
4 prophetic prism
3 cancel
4 unlicensed disintegration
2 slip through space
4 spirebluff canal
4 aetherhub
4 island
4 plains
3 magma spray
2 dispel
1 sweltering suns
1 slip through space
2 fling
2 negate
The idea is to burn early threats while baiting removal and forcing some damage with stormchaser mage. Around turn four/five, we want to start dropping Drakes and Constructrs. The idea is that either of these represents a 1-2 turn clock. Both Stormchaser Mage and Enigma Drake survive sweltering sun.
My maybe-board includes soul-scar mage and multi-creature damage effects like Blazing Volley and Boiling Earth to capitalize on his wither effect. If I went this direction, I'd likely drop Crackdown Constructs, Prophetic Prism, and Unlicensed disintegration and add galvanic bombardment and Cathartic Reunion as well. I'm also really interested in Mercurial Geists. Has anyone tried him out?
I think this deck might be poised to steal some wins now. Our other worst matchup is Izzet Control, which just lost one of their best matchups so will likely see less play.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Needs moar Delver.
Also a question, if I have a gideon attacking me and I use a card to tap it with a condition saying it wont untap, does that follow that gideon goes back to his planeswalker form unable to untap the following turn and therefore can't use any abilities?
I'm not sure if he will untap or not, but if he stays tapped, his abilities can still be activated.
Also, has anyone tested Scatter to the Winds? It seems like it would be great here, giving us an extra threat late and a hard counter. It also makes our Wandering Fumarole huge.
Needs moar Delver.
Pretty much what I was curious about since deadlock trap does tap walkers, rendering them useless.
Also while scatter to the winds gives you a late game threat disallow was better poised to stop marvel activations, ulamog trigger and gives you a hard counter.
But with marvel gone, scatter may become good again along with ruinous path.