Ixalan is a tribal set, the first truly dedicated one in a while, so it's fitting that Wizards has put a lot of support into its four tribes. But of those four, two of them show the strongest signs of constructed playability. Dinosaurs and Pirates. I'll leave pirates for another thread but I think we've gotten enough spoilers for Dinosaurs to start looking at a possible shell.
Anchors:
Ripjaw Raptor. One of the best creatures in the set, IMO, and it just happens to be a dinosaur. 4/5 bodies for 4 are historically the right size and drawing a card upon receiving damage makes combat a nightmare for the opponent and burn style removal feel bad.
Drover of the Mighty. One of three BoPs in Standard come rotation. While it starts off smaller than Servant of the Conduit it can be larger with a Dinosaur around. And Unlike Servant and Channeler Initiate, you don't need any fuel to turn into mana. No Energy, No -1/-1 Counters. Not sure if that makes it better than either option but it's certainly appealing for us.
Regisaur Alpha. Another very powerful card out of Ixalan that happens to be a Dino. 7 power for 5 mana across two bodies and multiples just make each other better. Unfortunately, while it's very strong and standard playable I'm sure, it's competing with a lot of busted 5 drops in red and green like Verdurous Gearhulk and Glorybringer. It's a card hoping its tribe is good enough to let it compete with the big boys.
Playables:
Kinjalli's Sunwing. A 2/3 flier for 3 that makes blockers a turn behind. A Dinosaur.
Bellowing Aegisaur. A Bit expensive but also a Dinosaur that can anthem your team with the right support.
Rampaging Ferocidon. More of a Hate card but it's also just a 3/3 for 3 with menace that puts us on the aggro plan. A Dinosaur.
Ranging Raptors. A 2/3 for three that ramps us. Even one trigger is good. Two becomes insane. A Dinosaur.
Otepec Huntmaster. Not a dinosaur but it does make all Dinosaurs cheaper and can give one a turn haste effectively making Dino's attacking two turns early. A 2 mana shaman and our deck needs early plays.
Metallic Mimic. The Standard Lord for the Lordless. Name Dinosaurs to give all dinosaurs after a permanent +1/+1.
Walking Ballista. A standard staple and in Dinosaurs it has cute synergy if Enrage is your game.
Attune with Aether. A one mana play that fixes your mana and gives you energy. Good on it's own, very good in a certain package.
Harnessed Lightning. One of the best removals in standard. Better with energy synergy. Fine on it's own.
Lightning Strike. The most effective burn spell we've had in standard for a while making it's triumphant return. Remove a small creature, deal with a vulnerable planeswalker, or go to the face to close a game out.
Savage Stomp. A fight effect, which aren't typically very standard playable but this one is one mana for us, permanantly pumps a creature, and can trigger enrage. Worth early consideration.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc. A very hyped card for good reason coming into standard. Might take more of a build around but we have some fairly large creatures. This digs for lands and creatures and can flip into Gaea's Cradle. It's worth our attention, though it might take a certain build.
Carnage Tyrant. Likely more of a Sideboard option so it's lower on the list but it's still a 7/6 for 6 that can't be countered and has Trample and Hexproof. Survives Hour of Devastation so great against UR Control.
Rile. Yeah, probably a limited card not constructed but it replaces itself and triggers enrage so in the right build who knows?
Thundering Spineback. Also a limited card but technically a Dinosaur lord with a mana sink. We have ways to ramp it out but there are probably just better things to ramp to.
Pillar of Origins. A Mana rock but only for one tribe. In our deck, a very appealing option.
Huatli, Warrior Poet. A boros walker who's maybe not the most powerful 5 mana walker ever but she makes dinosaurs for no loyalty chance and her -X can remove three blockers or trigger enrage or some combination. For us I think she has a shot.
Burning Sun's Avatar. The first of the Avatar cycle! A 6 mana 6/6 that can deals damage upon ETB. Can hit players (or planeswalkers) and a creature for 3 each. A fine option but not my favorite from the cycle.
Verdant Sun's Avatar. A 7 mana 5/5 that gains you 5 life and can let future dinosaurs also gain you life. If we have the ramp this is a card I'm looking at since we're probably on the slower side.
Wakening Sun's Avatar. An 8 mana 7/7!! Huge stats but SUPER expensive. If you can make it work it's a one sided wrath which is pretty nuts.
Gishath, Sun's Avatar. The Big Papa Dino! An 8 mana 7/6 with Trample, Vigilance and Haste that can turn combat damage into card advantage. Maybe more of a commander card but certainly a beater if you can land him.
Samut, the Tested. A 4 mana walker in Green and Red that's underpowered in a vaccume, but in Dinos can trigger Enrage, Ping Creatures, or just give our Carnage Tyrant double strike. Seems playable.
Charging Monstrosaur. A 5/5 TRAMPLE HASTE FOR 5?! This card is rediculous. It's a pity it's outshined by Regisaur Alpha at 5 mana but this card is a beast and easily playable.
Kinjalli's Caller. 1 Mana acceleration is always good. Don't jam it in your deck for no reason, but build around it and you're playing 2 mana Sunwings and Ranging Raptors and Deathgorge Scavengers. Seems good in GW or RW.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary. It's card draw in a creature deck. We're looking to play 30 or so Dino matters cards. Flex slots are tight but this one seems worth it.
Deathgorge Scavenger. Another aggressive three mana green dinosaur with incidental graveyard hate. Lovely
That's the list of options I have right now. It's a fairly large list and I think there's a lot of variety in options. For me right now, I think GR with a white splash is where I'm looking. Here's my initial list:
Green and Red seem the most suited to do the midrange Dinosaur plan so they're my base but I think Huatli is worth testing so I'm splashing for her. It shouldn't be hard between Aether Hub and Sunpetal Grove. I do think there's a more aggressive Dino Deck but I think it'd be more Red/White. Something like:
I don't get much further than that without reaching though. Maybe Rivals of Ixalan will fill that deck out more.
So where are others at? Anyone else interested in Dinosaur Tribal? Is it looking truly competitive? Just barely FNM worthy? Maybe more of an Against the Odds episode? Or is it utter trash? Did I forget any playables? Or is there a decklist I'm not seeing? Join the Discussion.
I think either G/R or R/W is that way to go for dinosaurs. I'm not sure if the mana base for 3 colours is consistent enough. Here is the list I've been trying so far. I haven't really been a fan of Otepec Huntmaster. It seems awkward a lot of the time because it doesn't provide coloured mana and it also doesn't help you play non-dinosaur spells. I still want to play more than 4 mana creatures, so I'm playing Channeler Initiate in its place, because it's pretty much unconditional ramp (until you run out of -1/-1 counters), and it's also a beater later in the game. Samut the Tested has been good. The -2 to trigger your own enrage seems to be a real thing, and also giving double-strike to your large dinosaurs works well. I've been considering playing some number of Savage Stomp in the main deck, but it's hard to main a card that usually does nothing against control decks.
Basically, punish your opponents for hitting anything you got, beat them on the value train, and win by turning things sideways. It's blindingly simple and probably going to win games. That was just a quick list I threw together and the lands are probably a little high given the fact we got the Commune With Dinosaurs count at 4. Don't try to run this without Pillar of Origins because with all the removal running rampant you'll want something that isn't vulnerable to all the red burn running around. They can be abraded, but that's one card that I'm expecting will be sideboarded game 1 unless their are lots of artifact related decks still running around. Right now I think it's mostly control decks and aggro.
Ranging Raptors is good, but not necessarily for stomps. It's more of a build around ramp card meant to help hit the bigger dinosaurs and that requires a bit more ramping to hit than just the 8 sources in the stomps build. On the upside, the worst case scenario I'm seeing right now is someone lightning strikes it and we get a land. I don't really feel like any of the walkers add much to the deck as it stands. Nissa, Vital Force seems fine in the deck and might warrant a spot. Samut, the tested is interesting. Her +1 could be good with Carnage Tyrant and her -2 can be used to trigger enrage, but otherwise not exactly impressive.
I'm expecting the entire core of this deck to be costing between 130-160 usd given current pre-order pricing trends. It really depends on how much demand gets put on the mythic, but I got a feeling that one has a good chance to go to 15-20 if control is a thing. Also, the reason for the 2x Rampaging Ferocidon: It punishes pirates and it punishes current small creatures strategies, as well as stops that freaking horse of lifegain nightmares because Crested Sunmare is a thing. Never thought I'd say this but this deck basically builds itself. They pushed dinosaurs so hard I have no idea how pirates are going to compete. Pirates are really disruptive, but this just has no brain to it whatsover to disrupt. The ramp is mostly there to power into the big stuff against non-interactive aggro decks because the dinosaurs can be reached rather quickly one way or another.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nature's Way seems like a good removal option for Dinosaurs, it is more expensive to cast (on dinosaurs) than Savage Stomp and trades a +1/+1 counter (and enrage trigger) for vigilance+trample which seems pretty good.
I like (and will add above) Samut, the Tested as an option for Dino's. Her minus 2 ability gets a lot of utility when it can turn into "deal one damage to creature or player and draw a card" or "Draw a card and put a basic land into play tapped", etc.
The WR deck also got a boon with Sky Terror or whatever it will eventually be called. I'm still on GR though. My plan is to go tall and make combat a nightmare in "fair games". Here's my updated list.
I'm still sticking with Otepec Huntmaster mainboard, I like how he's worked out and the extra toughness and dinosaur synergies make him more appealing than Channeler. I think there's a version of the deck with Servant of the Conduit and Harnessed Lightning, but it's not mine. Walking Ballista has cute synergies but I think it's for a different deck like Snek. We don't want to spend turn 2 to play a 1/1 Ballista just to ping our turn 3 Ranging Raptors. Instead I'm testing the Mimic. Mimic pups out Enrage Dinosaurs so they can take more abuse and therefore more triggers and the synergy with Regisaur Alpha is just dumb. Haven't tested it much yet but we'll see. Chandra was originally Samut to get that pinging synergy I'm lacking without Ballista but Chandra eventually beat her out because she does more. She curves better into the Tyrant, she can be card draw, and she can be more removal.
In playesting, I've noticed that there tends to be a lot board stalls (whether in the mirror or other match-ups too). I'm looking for something that can be a mirror breaker or go way over the top. Right now the only thing I'm coming up with possibly using Key to the City to make your creatures unblockable.
In playesting, I've noticed that there tends to be a lot board stalls (whether in the mirror or other match-ups too). I'm looking for something that can be a mirror breaker or go way over the top. Right now the only thing I'm coming up with possibly using Key to the City to make your creatures unblockable.
is it possible we should look into Dinosaur Stampede in some number?
Now the deck is designed to be a mid-range deck that uses removal to stabilize the board and then start dropping threats that are either difficult to remove or gain us card advantage.
Right now its Jund colors, basically GR splashing B for removal. I may throw together a Naya version, GR splash W for removal, as it also opens up Gideon of the Trials and Huatli, Warrior Poet and see how that does. Not sure if I like black or white better for removal purposes come rotation.
No sideboard yet. As you can see, there also isn't a huge deal thats its dino tribal, as I have no lord and the only card that cares about the Dinosaur subtype is Commune with Dinosaurs.
In playesting, I've noticed that there tends to be a lot board stalls (whether in the mirror or other match-ups too). I'm looking for something that can be a mirror breaker or go way over the top. Right now the only thing I'm coming up with possibly using Key to the City to make your creatures unblockable.
is it possible we should look into Dinosaur Stampede in some number?
Dinosaur Stampede is interesting and might work. I think the main thing causing stalls is Ripjaw Raptor, because of its 5 toughness and everyone's reluctance to deal damage to it. Even if you get a turn 4 or 5 Regisaur Alpha, you still can't attack into a Ripjaw Raptor. You basically need to have a 6-drop, or a Savage Stomp before you can attack. With Dinosaur Stampede, if your opponent blocks they are going to lose their creatures, and if they don't block then then will just end up taking a big chunk of damage that will likely swing the game in your favour.
One thing I like about Key to the City is that you can run it mainboard if you want, since it isn't a dead card in any match-up.
In playesting, I've noticed that there tends to be a lot board stalls (whether in the mirror or other match-ups too). I'm looking for something that can be a mirror breaker or go way over the top. Right now the only thing I'm coming up with possibly using Key to the City to make your creatures unblockable.
is it possible we should look into Dinosaur Stampede in some number?
Dinosaur Stampede is interesting and might work. I think the main thing causing stalls is Ripjaw Raptor, because of its 5 toughness and everyone's reluctance to deal damage to it. Even if you get a turn 4 or 5 Regisaur Alpha, you still can't attack into a Ripjaw Raptor. You basically need to have a 6-drop, or a Savage Stomp before you can attack. With Dinosaur Stampede, if your opponent blocks they are going to lose their creatures, and if they don't block then then will just end up taking a big chunk of damage that will likely swing the game in your favour.
One thing I like about Key to the City is that you can run it mainboard if you want, since it isn't a dead card in any match-up.
Thats fair, Raptor certainly is a resilient threat going into current standard. 5 toughness protects it from all the 2 Mana burn, and no ones going to want to double up burn on it. 2 for 1-ing yourself is even more feel bad than normal. I think the cleanest kill is Fatal push off of a treasure token for revolt. Besides that you'll need to get to 4 Mana and be in Black or White to kill it and not draw the opponent a card.
Stampede is instant speed which gives it nice utility but I'll grant the key is useful against more matchups since it can worst case be 2 Mana draw a card. Naya Dino's might be appealing just for Ixalan Bindings out of the sideboard. Stop one Raptor and others from being cast.
I think we're going to see a lot of Skywhaler's Shot going into the sideboard of white decks since it works really well against dinosaurs. Instant speed reliable removal against just about all the stuff we drop except for Carnage Tyrant. Also, I like running Naya probably more than Jund with dinosaurs simply because we got Cast Out and Skywhaler's Shot as removal options, and Desert's Hold can do some work when Skywhaler's Shot falls through. Most people are running hate cards against artifacts and not necessarily enchantments, anyway. I'm not a huge fan of Fatal Push outside of modern as it's just relying too much on revolt to get it to hit major threats. It's basically a black Shock most of the time, and I'd rather run Magma Spray for dealing with recurring threats like Scrapheap Scrounger.
As for Pillar of Origins, I'm about 50/50 on it. If I'm running it I'd want to keep most non-dinosaur spells lower on the curve, so PWs like Samut, the Tested are actually a bit slower in that situation than I'd like. I do like Samut, the Tested more than some other options, since she can give double strike to a creature and that's pretty nasty on just about anything we'd be running.
Btw, why are people trying to cram Chandra, Torch of Defiance in here? I know she's good, but I'm not sure reach is really our problem. Really, the main issue we got is dealing with tons of tiny chump blockers since trample seems to be only on two of the creatures. I wish we had a Whipflare in the format since 3 damage from Sweltering Suns hoses a lot of our tokens and creatures without any kind of buffs.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I was thinking maybe Invigorated Rampage could be a good option. It can force a creature past one or two Ripjaw Raptors. It also gives trample at instant speed, so it makes it harder for decks to try and go wide. You can punish opponents for trying to chump block your giant dinos with 1/1 tokens.
Could also use Cartouche of Strength. Basically it's a fight card that also gives trample at the cost of being an enchantment. I'd probably discount it as chaff, but since it can give Ripjaw Raptor trample and permanently put it over Hour of Devastation range I kind of like it more than the Savage Stomp in some cases. This deck right now feels like it gets a lot of value off of abusing Ripjaw Raptor for free card draw and just enrage in general. Another option might be Rhonas's Monument. Helps ramp into big green creatures and buffs things for playing creatures.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Okay, so looking at what people posted we got two really good directions going. One is drive into big stuff and run them over, The other approach that seems strong is basically junding it up, playing good mid-range value creatures and removal.
I think mid range may be difficult due to control being present. We do have a pseudo dinosaur tarmogoyf that doubles as ramp, though. I still don't feel like we want 4x carnage tyrant to counter control due to the cost.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Okay, so looking at what people posted we got two really good directions going. One is drive into big stuff and run them over, The other approach that seems strong is basically junding it up, playing good mid-range value creatures and removal.
I think mid range may be difficult due to control being present. We do have a pseudo dinosaur tarmogoyf that doubles as ramp, though. I still don't feel like we want 4x carnage tyrant to counter control due to the cost.
I think running the mid-range version will be ok. Yes control is around, but it usually takes control a few weeks to shape up. Therefore I think a mid-range deck like this is position well come rotation.
Also if you run black you can add in hand disruption such as, Duress and Dreamstealer, which will go a long way to mess up control. Further more a resolved Carnage Tyrant is really hard for control to deal with. Now Im not saying we need 4, but 2 seems to be a decent number. Especially if you are running Commune with Dinosaurs to dig for it when needed.
What Dinosaur Tarmogoyf are you talking about?
Also what are peoples thoughts on
5/5 for 5 is decent. Then add in trample and haste and it seems like it make a good split with Regisaur Alpha to round out the 5-drop slot. The trample will help will the boardstalls and the 5 toughness puts it out of Cut // Ribbons and Lightning Strike.
5/5 for 5 is decent. Then add in trample and haste and it seems like it make a good split with Regisaur Alpha to round out the 5-drop slot. The trample will help will the boardstalls and the 5 toughness puts it out of Cut // Ribbons and Lightning Strike.
I like the Monstrosaur, and I think it has constructed potential, but in any dinosaur deck running green I think it's competing too much with regisaur alpha. I don't think I'd run a split because in most situations I'd rather be drawing the alpha. It's costed the same, you still get a body with haste to swing in but the body is a 3/3 instead of a 5/5. The only time you need the body to be a 5/5 is when you need to win that turn but any other time when the board is at a stall or when you're behind, you'd want the two bodies.
That said I do think the Monstrosaur has one deck it could slide into, and that's RW DinoAggro. I think that deck is missing maybe a few pieces but this is a huge addition.
Okay, so looking at what people posted we got two really good directions going. One is drive into big stuff and run them over, The other approach that seems strong is basically junding it up, playing good mid-range value creatures and removal.
I think mid range may be difficult due to control being present. We do have a pseudo dinosaur tarmogoyf that doubles as ramp, though. I still don't feel like we want 4x carnage tyrant to counter control due to the cost.
I think running the mid-range version will be ok. Yes control is around, but it usually takes control a few weeks to shape up. Therefore I think a mid-range deck like this is position well come rotation.
Also if you run black you can add in hand disruption such as, Duress and Dreamstealer, which will go a long way to mess up control. Further more a resolved Carnage Tyrant is really hard for control to deal with. Now Im not saying we need 4, but 2 seems to be a decent number. Especially if you are running Commune with Dinosaurs to dig for it when needed.
What Dinosaur Tarmogoyf are you talking about?
Also what are peoples thoughts on
5/5 for 5 is decent. Then add in trample and haste and it seems like it make a good split with Regisaur Alpha to round out the 5-drop slot. The trample will help will the boardstalls and the 5 toughness puts it out of Cut // Ribbons and Lightning Strike.
Also going to point out that we have Harsh Scrutiny in the format as well acting as a slightly worse Despise. I'll try black again to see where I end up with dinosaurs. What I would give to have Sand Strangler be a dinosaur right about now. RW deserts has been a joy to run due to all the removal it can bring to the fore.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Here's my adjusted list after some more playtesting. I think Hashep Oasis is a good include because compliments Carnage Tyrant pretty well. I tried out Pillar of Origins, but frequently ran in to situations where I wanted to use it for mana, but not to cast a Dinosaur. I'm trying Servant of the Conduit in its place now. I chose Servant over Channeler Initiate because the 2/2 body is much better than an 0/1 in the early game, and I figure that the 2 energy it provides might be enough to get all the ramping I need out of it.
I've continued to run into mirror matches where neither player can profitably attack, and it drags out into a long board stall, so I upped Key to the City from 1 to 2 in the sideboard. In a recent match the board was stalled for so long that I was able to ultimate both a Chandra and a Samut, and there was nothing my opponent could do about it. Also Samut continues to be an all-star for me in this deck.
Forgot to mention, I did look at rotation and it seems that Temur Energy and pummeller decks are going to be basically still 100% functional come rotation, which basically means energy is still around. Bristling Hydra is actually a little better than Ripjaw Raptor on attacking due to the fact it can get buffed really easily by spare energy floating around the field.
Added Tormenting Voice to help get rid of unnecessary duplicates with Legendaries. I think the land count is a bit low on this one.
I'm finally getting the feel of using hatchling. It fills a similar role to narnam renegade in that it punishes opponents for swinging in and helps keep up a good board state in a format cluttered with sweltering sun's and red removal. I'm thinking I may go all the way with enrage.
The major problem I'm running into is four color energy is just crazy good and only lost lumbering falls with rotation. The menace raptor and honor guard are likely going to be in the side to try and slow down the energy production. Also, God's are still running loose so you need a way to answer those.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not very good at building 3-color mana bases, so the land selection is probably not ideal.
Regardless I've had a lot of fun with this deck and hope Dinosaurs have potential for competitive play. However the deck is a bit slow and requires some setting up so I'm not sure how it matches against the likes of Ramunap Red or Mardu Vehicles.
Not powerful on its own but this card has me all excited again for RW aggro. We don't get much one mana acceleration anymore and this has two key 3 drops it can ramp into, the sunwing and the ferocidon. Not to mention the Otepec Huntmaster also in red that can get a turn 3 Charging Monstrosaur! I'm all hype on this build now.
Well, we knew early on dinosaurs were gonna pushed in XLN. We just didn't know how hard. Now we kinda have an idea. As has been stated, many people see dinosaurs going in two directions: RW aggro and RG Ramp. I personally would like to see Naya dino deck going far combining the best synergies between the to. Here is my first (but not last) crack at the deck:
First off, I see a lot of people are running some graveyards hate land cards like Scavenger Grounds in your builds. Personally, I think this is a waste of time. Mono Black Zombies got neutered hard with SOI rotating out. And Mardu Vehicles won't be what it used to be without Gideon and Avacyn. So I think the correct response while the meta is developing is to go "all in" instead of weakening your manabases. What I mean is, concentrate on one powerful strategy, then fine tune your deck as the meta develops.
That being said, I went with a midrange/aggro strat. In many cases, I can get 4-5CMC big bodied dinos out as early as Turn 3. I'm also running a lot of card draw in place of removal MB so that I don't have to go into "topdeck mode" quite as much. With the Enrage mechanic, cards like Samut, the Tested becomes a powerful team player, and each of her abilities becomes useful. Huatli, Warrior Poet acts as backup, creating board stall, lifegain, and, when we're ready, a game ending alpha strike. My removal is reserved for the SB once I know what I'm up against. It's designed primarily to break the mirror, but should do well against other aggro, midrange, and tempo strats. Control is another story. I don't know how strong it will be, but I think our dino CMC reduction cards may allow us to out CA them.
Well, we knew early on dinosaurs were gonna pushed in XLN. We just didn't know how hard. Now we kinda have an idea. As has been stated, many people see dinosaurs going in two directions: RW aggro and RG Ramp. I personally would like to see Naya dino deck going far combining the best synergies between the to. Here is my first (but not last) crack at the deck:
First off, I see a lot of people are running some graveyards hate land cards like Scavenger Grounds in your builds. Personally, I think this is a waste of time. Mono Black Zombies got neutered hard with SOI rotating out. And Mardu Vehicles won't be what it used to be without Gideon and Avacyn. So I think the correct response while the meta is developing is to go "all in" instead of weakening your manabases. What I mean is, concentrate on one powerful strategy, then fine tune your deck as the meta develops.
That being said, I went with a midrange/aggro strat. In many cases, I can get 4-5CMC big bodied dinos out as early as Turn 3. I'm also running a lot of card draw in place of removal MB so that I don't have to go into "topdeck mode" quite as much. With the Enrage mechanic, cards like Samut, the Tested becomes a powerful team player, and each of her abilities becomes useful. Huatli, Warrior Poet acts as backup, creating board stall, lifegain, and, when we're ready, a game ending alpha strike. My removal is reserved for the SB once I know what I'm up against. It's designed primarily to break the mirror, but should do well against other aggro, midrange, and tempo strats. Control is another story. I don't know how strong it will be, but I think our dino CMC reduction cards may allow us to out CA them.
If you are Kinalli's Caller you need more white sources T1. All you have are the vantages which are not enough.
Has anyone tried the token doubling card with the dinosaurs? Regisaur and raptor hatchling dropping 6 power with trample on the field sounds really good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, we knew early on dinosaurs were gonna pushed in XLN. We just didn't know how hard. Now we kinda have an idea. As has been stated, many people see dinosaurs going in two directions: RW aggro and RG Ramp. I personally would like to see Naya dino deck going far combining the best synergies between the to. Here is my first (but not last) crack at the deck:
First off, I see a lot of people are running some graveyards hate land cards like Scavenger Grounds in your builds. Personally, I think this is a waste of time. Mono Black Zombies got neutered hard with SOI rotating out. And Mardu Vehicles won't be what it used to be without Gideon and Avacyn. So I think the correct response while the meta is developing is to go "all in" instead of weakening your manabases. What I mean is, concentrate on one powerful strategy, then fine tune your deck as the meta develops.
That being said, I went with a midrange/aggro strat. In many cases, I can get 4-5CMC big bodied dinos out as early as Turn 3. I'm also running a lot of card draw in place of removal MB so that I don't have to go into "topdeck mode" quite as much. With the Enrage mechanic, cards like Samut, the Tested becomes a powerful team player, and each of her abilities becomes useful. Huatli, Warrior Poet acts as backup, creating board stall, lifegain, and, when we're ready, a game ending alpha strike. My removal is reserved for the SB once I know what I'm up against. It's designed primarily to break the mirror, but should do well against other aggro, midrange, and tempo strats. Control is another story. I don't know how strong it will be, but I think our dino CMC reduction cards may allow us to out CA them.
God Pharaoh's gift decks are the reason to include graveyard hate, not zombies or vehicles.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Anchors:
Playables:
That's the list of options I have right now. It's a fairly large list and I think there's a lot of variety in options. For me right now, I think GR with a white splash is where I'm looking. Here's my initial list:
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Walking Ballista
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Verdant Sun's Avatar
SPELLS (10)
3 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Lightning Strike
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
2 Huatli, Warrior Poet
4 Aether Hub
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Sunpetal Grove
6 Forest
4 Mountain
3 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Sweltering Suns
4 Abrade
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Walking Ballista
4 Kinjalli's Sunwing
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Regisaur Alpha
4 Pillar of Origins
So where are others at? Anyone else interested in Dinosaur Tribal? Is it looking truly competitive? Just barely FNM worthy? Maybe more of an Against the Odds episode? Or is it utter trash? Did I forget any playables? Or is there a decklist I'm not seeing? Join the Discussion.
Life. Life finds a Way.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
1x Burning Sun's Avatar
3x Carnage Tyrant
4x Channeler Initiate
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Ranging Raptors
4x Regisaur Alpha
4x Ripjaw Raptor
5x Mountain
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sheltered Thicket
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Samut, the Tested
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
3 Blossoming Defense
3 Savage Stomp
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
Creatures
2 Carnage Tyrant
4 Drover of the Mighty
2 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Regisaur Alpha
4 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
4 Pillar of Origins
Lands
4 Unclaimed Territory
12 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
Basically, punish your opponents for hitting anything you got, beat them on the value train, and win by turning things sideways. It's blindingly simple and probably going to win games. That was just a quick list I threw together and the lands are probably a little high given the fact we got the Commune With Dinosaurs count at 4. Don't try to run this without Pillar of Origins because with all the removal running rampant you'll want something that isn't vulnerable to all the red burn running around. They can be abraded, but that's one card that I'm expecting will be sideboarded game 1 unless their are lots of artifact related decks still running around. Right now I think it's mostly control decks and aggro.
Ranging Raptors is good, but not necessarily for stomps. It's more of a build around ramp card meant to help hit the bigger dinosaurs and that requires a bit more ramping to hit than just the 8 sources in the stomps build. On the upside, the worst case scenario I'm seeing right now is someone lightning strikes it and we get a land. I don't really feel like any of the walkers add much to the deck as it stands. Nissa, Vital Force seems fine in the deck and might warrant a spot. Samut, the tested is interesting. Her +1 could be good with Carnage Tyrant and her -2 can be used to trigger enrage, but otherwise not exactly impressive.
I'm expecting the entire core of this deck to be costing between 130-160 usd given current pre-order pricing trends. It really depends on how much demand gets put on the mythic, but I got a feeling that one has a good chance to go to 15-20 if control is a thing. Also, the reason for the 2x Rampaging Ferocidon: It punishes pirates and it punishes current small creatures strategies, as well as stops that freaking horse of lifegain nightmares because Crested Sunmare is a thing. Never thought I'd say this but this deck basically builds itself. They pushed dinosaurs so hard I have no idea how pirates are going to compete. Pirates are really disruptive, but this just has no brain to it whatsover to disrupt. The ramp is mostly there to power into the big stuff against non-interactive aggro decks because the dinosaurs can be reached rather quickly one way or another.
With the current format, you can also drop two of the pillars and the Carnage Tyrants for some lower curve creatures. Walking Ballista is fine in some builds, but I kind of like Resilient Khenra and Rhonas the Indomitable. Narnam Renegade isn't bad either if you need some Typhoid Rats.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Otepec Huntmaster
2x Ranging Raptors
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Regisaur Alpha
4x Carnage Tyrant
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
4x Savage Stomp
Instant (4)
4x Lightning Strike
Artifact (2)
2x Pillar of Origins
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Unclaimed Territory
6x Forest
4x Mountain
I'm not sure if Pillar of Origins is worth it over Attune with Aether or another mana dork Servant of the Conduit/Channeler Initiate.
Also not sure if 22x lands is enough even with: 4x mana drork, 2x mana rocks and 4x cost reduction creatures.
Also with some energy cards Aether Hub becomes better than Unclaimed Territory.
Nature's Way seems like a good removal option for Dinosaurs, it is more expensive to cast (on dinosaurs) than Savage Stomp and trades a +1/+1 counter (and enrage trigger) for vigilance+trample which seems pretty good.
Ambuscade doesn't seem too bad either.
The WR deck also got a boon with Sky Terror or whatever it will eventually be called. I'm still on GR though. My plan is to go tall and make combat a nightmare in "fair games". Here's my updated list.
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Metallic Mimic
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Carnage Tyrant
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
LANDS (24)
4 Aether Hub
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
7 Forest
5 Mountain
3 Shapers Sanctuary
4 Abrade
4 Sweltering Suns
2 Burning Suns Avatar
2 Carnage Tyrant
I'm still sticking with Otepec Huntmaster mainboard, I like how he's worked out and the extra toughness and dinosaur synergies make him more appealing than Channeler. I think there's a version of the deck with Servant of the Conduit and Harnessed Lightning, but it's not mine. Walking Ballista has cute synergies but I think it's for a different deck like Snek. We don't want to spend turn 2 to play a 1/1 Ballista just to ping our turn 3 Ranging Raptors. Instead I'm testing the Mimic. Mimic pups out Enrage Dinosaurs so they can take more abuse and therefore more triggers and the synergy with Regisaur Alpha is just dumb. Haven't tested it much yet but we'll see. Chandra was originally Samut to get that pinging synergy I'm lacking without Ballista but Chandra eventually beat her out because she does more. She curves better into the Tyrant, she can be card draw, and she can be more removal.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Now the deck is designed to be a mid-range deck that uses removal to stabilize the board and then start dropping threats that are either difficult to remove or gain us card advantage.
Right now its Jund colors, basically GR splashing B for removal. I may throw together a Naya version, GR splash W for removal, as it also opens up Gideon of the Trials and Huatli, Warrior Poet and see how that does. Not sure if I like black or white better for removal purposes come rotation.
Anyway here is the deck.
4x Raptor Hatchling
3x Ranging Raptors
3x Ripjaw Raptor
3x Regisaur Alpha
2x Carnage Tyrant
Planeswalkers 2
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4x Lightning Strike
3x Abrade
3x Fatal Push
2x Vraska's Contempt
Sorcery 7
3x Commune with Dinosaurs
2x Cut // Ribbons
2x Sweltering Suns
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Mountain
3x Forest
1x Swamp
No sideboard yet. As you can see, there also isn't a huge deal thats its dino tribal, as I have no lord and the only card that cares about the Dinosaur subtype is Commune with Dinosaurs.
Let me know what you guys think.
Dinosaur Stampede is interesting and might work. I think the main thing causing stalls is Ripjaw Raptor, because of its 5 toughness and everyone's reluctance to deal damage to it. Even if you get a turn 4 or 5 Regisaur Alpha, you still can't attack into a Ripjaw Raptor. You basically need to have a 6-drop, or a Savage Stomp before you can attack. With Dinosaur Stampede, if your opponent blocks they are going to lose their creatures, and if they don't block then then will just end up taking a big chunk of damage that will likely swing the game in your favour.
One thing I like about Key to the City is that you can run it mainboard if you want, since it isn't a dead card in any match-up.
Stampede is instant speed which gives it nice utility but I'll grant the key is useful against more matchups since it can worst case be 2 Mana draw a card. Naya Dino's might be appealing just for Ixalan Bindings out of the sideboard. Stop one Raptor and others from being cast.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
As for Pillar of Origins, I'm about 50/50 on it. If I'm running it I'd want to keep most non-dinosaur spells lower on the curve, so PWs like Samut, the Tested are actually a bit slower in that situation than I'd like. I do like Samut, the Tested more than some other options, since she can give double strike to a creature and that's pretty nasty on just about anything we'd be running.
Btw, why are people trying to cram Chandra, Torch of Defiance in here? I know she's good, but I'm not sure reach is really our problem. Really, the main issue we got is dealing with tons of tiny chump blockers since trample seems to be only on two of the creatures. I wish we had a Whipflare in the format since 3 damage from Sweltering Suns hoses a lot of our tokens and creatures without any kind of buffs.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think mid range may be difficult due to control being present. We do have a pseudo dinosaur tarmogoyf that doubles as ramp, though. I still don't feel like we want 4x carnage tyrant to counter control due to the cost.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think running the mid-range version will be ok. Yes control is around, but it usually takes control a few weeks to shape up. Therefore I think a mid-range deck like this is position well come rotation.
Also if you run black you can add in hand disruption such as, Duress and Dreamstealer, which will go a long way to mess up control. Further more a resolved Carnage Tyrant is really hard for control to deal with. Now Im not saying we need 4, but 2 seems to be a decent number. Especially if you are running Commune with Dinosaurs to dig for it when needed.
What Dinosaur Tarmogoyf are you talking about?
Also what are peoples thoughts on
5/5 for 5 is decent. Then add in trample and haste and it seems like it make a good split with Regisaur Alpha to round out the 5-drop slot. The trample will help will the boardstalls and the 5 toughness puts it out of Cut // Ribbons and Lightning Strike.
That said I do think the Monstrosaur has one deck it could slide into, and that's RW DinoAggro. I think that deck is missing maybe a few pieces but this is a huge addition.
4 Walking Ballista
4 Sky Terror
2 Metallic Mimic
4 Kinjalli's Sunwing
4 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Charging Monstrosaur
4 Lightning Strike
4 Dinosaur Stampede
6 Mountain
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Aether Hub
4 Ramunap Ruins
4 Shefet Dunes
2 Sunscorched Desert
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Also going to point out that we have Harsh Scrutiny in the format as well acting as a slightly worse Despise. I'll try black again to see where I end up with dinosaurs. What I would give to have Sand Strangler be a dinosaur right about now. RW deserts has been a joy to run due to all the removal it can bring to the fore.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've continued to run into mirror matches where neither player can profitably attack, and it drags out into a long board stall, so I upped Key to the City from 1 to 2 in the sideboard. In a recent match the board was stalled for so long that I was able to ultimate both a Chandra and a Samut, and there was nothing my opponent could do about it. Also Samut continues to be an all-star for me in this deck.
3 Servant of the Conduit
3 Carnage Tyrant
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Regisaur Alpha
4 Ripjaw Raptor
// 5 Instant
3 Lightning Strike
2 Invigorated Rampage
// 23 Land
9 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Hashep Oasis
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Samut, the Tested
// 6 Sorcery
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
2 Savage Stomp
// 2 Artifact
2 Key to the City
4 Abrade
2 Magma Spray
// 2 Land
2 Scavenger Grounds
// 4 Sorcery
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Savage Stomp
Anyone try Skysovereign, Consul Flagship in the deck? Seems like we have a lot of 3 power creatures to work with.
10 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Sheltered Thicket
Spells
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Lightning Strike
3 Rhonas's Monument
2 Samut, the Tested
2 Savage Stomp
3 Carnage Tyrant
4 Drover of the Mighty
3 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Raptor Hatchling
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Ripjaw Raptor
3 Abrade
3 Blossoming Defense
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Heaven // Earth
1 Savage Stomp
Added Tormenting Voice to help get rid of unnecessary duplicates with Legendaries. I think the land count is a bit low on this one.
I'm finally getting the feel of using hatchling. It fills a similar role to narnam renegade in that it punishes opponents for swinging in and helps keep up a good board state in a format cluttered with sweltering sun's and red removal. I'm thinking I may go all the way with enrage.
The major problem I'm running into is four color energy is just crazy good and only lost lumbering falls with rotation. The menace raptor and honor guard are likely going to be in the side to try and slow down the energy production. Also, God's are still running loose so you need a way to answer those.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
4x Regisaur Alpha
4x Ranging Raptors
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Metallic Mimic
4x Drover of the Mighty
2x Kinjalli's Sunwing
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
1x Carnage Tyrant
Planeswalkers (2):
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sorcery (8):
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
4x Savage Stomp
2x Abrade
Enchantment (2):
2x Cast Out
Land (22):
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Inspiring Vantage
5x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Scavenger Grounds
3x Magma Spray
2x Abrade
2x Shaper's Sanctuary
2x Sweltering Suns
2x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Authority of the Consuls
1x Arborback Stomper
1x Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1x Hour of Devastation
I'm not very good at building 3-color mana bases, so the land selection is probably not ideal.
Regardless I've had a lot of fun with this deck and hope Dinosaurs have potential for competitive play. However the deck is a bit slow and requires some setting up so I'm not sure how it matches against the likes of Ramunap Red or Mardu Vehicles.
Not powerful on its own but this card has me all excited again for RW aggro. We don't get much one mana acceleration anymore and this has two key 3 drops it can ramp into, the sunwing and the ferocidon. Not to mention the Otepec Huntmaster also in red that can get a turn 3 Charging Monstrosaur! I'm all hype on this build now.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Inspiring Vantage
2 Plains
2 Forest
CREATURES 23
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Drover of the Mighty
2 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
2 Carnage Tyrant
4 Kinjalli's Caller
2 Regisaur Alpha
1 Gishath, Sun's Avatar
2 Samut, the Tested
2 Huatli, Warrior Poet
INSTANTS AND SORCERIES 8
2 Rile
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
ARTIFACTS 3
2 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Vanquisher's Banner
2 Lightning Strike
3 Abrade
2 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Sweltering Suns
2 Savage Stomp
2 Scavenger Grounds
2 Ixalan's Binding
First off, I see a lot of people are running some graveyards hate land cards like Scavenger Grounds in your builds. Personally, I think this is a waste of time. Mono Black Zombies got neutered hard with SOI rotating out. And Mardu Vehicles won't be what it used to be without Gideon and Avacyn. So I think the correct response while the meta is developing is to go "all in" instead of weakening your manabases. What I mean is, concentrate on one powerful strategy, then fine tune your deck as the meta develops.That being said, I went with a midrange/aggro strat. In many cases, I can get 4-5CMC big bodied dinos out as early as Turn 3. I'm also running a lot of card draw in place of removal MB so that I don't have to go into "topdeck mode" quite as much. With the Enrage mechanic, cards like Samut, the Tested becomes a powerful team player, and each of her abilities becomes useful. Huatli, Warrior Poet acts as backup, creating board stall, lifegain, and, when we're ready, a game ending alpha strike. My removal is reserved for the SB once I know what I'm up against. It's designed primarily to break the mirror, but should do well against other aggro, midrange, and tempo strats. Control is another story. I don't know how strong it will be, but I think our dino CMC reduction cards may allow us to out CA them.
EDIT: Added +2 Ixalan's Binding, +2 Scavenger Grounds (SB), +2 Plains and subtracted -2 Forest, -2 Lightning Strike, -2 Cast Out. It is more important to have W mana available to cast Kinjalli's Caller Turn 1 than Commune with Dinosaurs, so G is not needed as much at the start. God-Pharaoh's Gift decks are a thing (shout out to captainobvious88 for pointing this out) so a card(s) like Scavenger Grounds is important to include in the build as it currently stands.
If you are Kinalli's Caller you need more white sources T1. All you have are the vantages which are not enough.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
God Pharaoh's gift decks are the reason to include graveyard hate, not zombies or vehicles.