Rampaging Ferocidon ensures that they don't get the multi-turn cushion that Approach provides.
It doesn't help much. The deck are packed with counter spells. If things do resolved, Cast Out and sweepers are waiting until we only have 1 attacker, their Gideon stalls the game until enough lands for Approach, and wins 2 turns later.
My current idea only to splash black or blue. Black for hand disruption cards like Duress, Doomfall or Heartless Pillage and blue, obviously to fight counter with counter like Spell Pierce and Negate. I prefer the former, as turn 1 Duress kinda helps a lot in gaining information of what they have.
Maybe Lost Legacy in black. It is very tempting to play one MB to just steal game 1 against UW but it does not help against other decks and it is BB
Nah, BB in the main is tough, and it's probably not doable in the 75 anyway. there are other ways to steal G1 against Approach. Chandra has been MVP for me, I got to the ultimate several times. I think powerful PWs are the way to go MD, like even Nissa and Vraska could do the trick.
I have not tried it yet but the minus ability of Saheeli Rai seems very strong, depending on what dinos you are playing.
Yeah this has to be tested, the synergy looks real !
Right now, if we go three color and decide to go jund or something, than we pretty much lock ourselves out of using Chandra, Torch of Defiance since we have to deal with double green and likely double black or double white.
Chandra works in Jund, because black spells we want need only B, never BB. Also the mana is good enough thanks to Dragonskull Summit.
The problem is that Naya and Temur have awakward manabases, and there RR (or even GG) spells can be challenging.
- Spirebluff Canal + Botanical Sanctum is horrendous in a ramp deck that don't want land #4-5 to etb tapped. And Canal doesn't provide G, the #1 color.
- Inspiring Vantage + Sunpetal Grove + Scattered Groves give white a bigger part in the mana than red. Sweltering Suns, Chandra and Avatar become awkward. Vantage has the same issue as Canal here, not providing G. However I assume it's doable in these colors.
Blue has very little to offer too, while white and black are full of good cards for the archetype in a vacuum. Temur screams as the worse combination in my eyes.
Also, another option if one is splashing black is Unlicensed Disintegration, which seems to have been scoured from peoples minds. Even without the 3 damage upside it's basically Murder, and that always saw play in the last standard.
The problem isn't dealing with single creatures. If so, it has to be a cheaper spell if it's a 1-for-1 : Push, Abrade, Cut, etc... or simply Savage Stomp. For 3 mana, you have Sweltering Suns that wrathesRamunap Red, Vehicles, Sultai Energy, Esper Gift (hardcast creatures), all the creature decks that performed in the last Open. The card is good at breaking stall boards, and less punishing than the other available wraths.
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Rampaging Ferocidon ensures that they don't get the multi-turn cushion that Approach provides.
It doesn't help much. The deck are packed with counter spells. If things do resolved, Cast Out and sweepers are waiting until we only have 1 attacker, their Gideon stalls the game until enough lands for Approach, and wins 2 turns later.
My current idea only to splash black or blue. Black for hand disruption cards like Duress, Doomfall or Heartless Pillage and blue, obviously to fight counter with counter like Spell Pierce and Negate. I prefer the former, as turn 1 Duress kinda helps a lot in gaining information of what they have.
I'd rather solve the problem with red and green cards before I go digging for black, white, or blue.
Mainly, I think a lot gets solved by lowering the curve. Play moderately large threats that aggressive attack the life total. Cards like Deathgorge Scavenger and Drover of the Mighty are aggressive and low to the ground. While not direct comparisons, think Gyre Sage and Flinthoof Boar.
I also like the package of playing Ramunap Ruins and Commune with Dinosaurs. Late game, this deck needs a mana dump and I think Ruins + Commune is a great way to dig and find exactly what you're looking for. Some of the better placing lists played the Hashep Oasis -- which doesn't make a ton of sense to me without evasion.
My point is this: there are tools to fight 2nd Sun but they aren't obvious. PWs are pretty on the nose but also prefectly reasonable -- I like Chandra.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Sorry for the link I am on my phone.
I was reading few cards and, maybe it is a bit crazy but, could refuse (from the aftermath card) do something against approach? I know it is a bad card but it is kind of in our colors so it would avoid a splash.
It's a horribly narrow answer, but given the fact they are trying to cast a huge spell and are probably at least somewhat beaten down by that point in the game, it could act as a way to push final damage through. Assuming you can side it in game 2 it would be a pretty unexpected play.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Rampaging Ferocidon ensures that they don't get the multi-turn cushion that Approach provides.
It doesn't help much. The deck are packed with counter spells. If things do resolved, Cast Out and sweepers are waiting until we only have 1 attacker, their Gideon stalls the game until enough lands for Approach, and wins 2 turns later.
My current idea only to splash black or blue. Black for hand disruption cards like Duress, Doomfall or Heartless Pillage and blue, obviously to fight counter with counter like Spell Pierce and Negate. I prefer the former, as turn 1 Duress kinda helps a lot in gaining information of what they have.
UW Control is one main reason why Dinosaurs won't make an impact this Standard, and the commentators mentioned that during GP Providence. In addition to getting blown out by Cast Out or Fumigate, you will also automatically lose to Settle the Wreckage, because all the powerful Dinosaurs don't come down until turn 4 or later (Or 3 if you get Huntmaster but can't attack until Turn 4), which puts you exactly within range of Settle the Wreckage; the extra mana ramp isn't also helpful to you on Turn 4, and if you try playing around it, you'll just get hit by Fumigate or at the very least buy the opponent more time to cast Approach of the Second Sun. And don't forget most white removals aren't damage-based so your Ripjaw Raptor is just going to be a vanilla 4/5. In fact simply because of UW Control is why I think he main midrange shells we'd expect to see in this meta going forward from GP Providence, Temur and Sultai Energy, are both running blue.
Besides that, the Dinosaurs creatures right now are just clunky. Your best threats are all 4-drops or higher and your 2-drops are both mana dorks. Deathgorge Scavenger and Ranging Raptors may be the only 3-drop Dinosaurs remotely considered playable in green and red and both leave a lot to be desired in terms of power.
Dinosaurs will need some MAJOR new tools in Rivals of Ixalan to be considered Standard playable. Some good examples would be some good 2-drop Dinosaurs or a land/another Dinosaur creature that reduces Dinosaurs' casting costs. But as it stands right now, Dinosaurs are simply inferior to what we currently have available for Standard, especially in green and red: Glorybringer is a better 5-drop than Regisaur Alpha and Bristling Hydra is a better 4-drop than Ripjaw Raptor.
UW Control is one main reason why Dinosaurs won't make an impact this Standard, and the commentators mentioned that during GP Providence
If we must bring feature comments in the discussion, Jim Davis also said UW was the best G1 deck. That's not a flaw to lose to it G1 if most decks have an unfavorable G1 plan.
Note that the guys at GP Providence covered Limited, not Constructed. Commentators usually humbly express their astonishment when a deck beats everyone's expectations, which was the case during the SCG Open. Obviously commentators at a Limited Event won't change their mind until they witness otherwise, and for the time being, it's easy to trust them while they actually know ***** about how the format is shaping up...
In addition to getting blown out by Cast Out or Fumigate, you will also automatically lose to Settle the Wreckage
Which is the case of most winning decks that run creatures.
All the wrath effects and their kills can be stripped or countered with a splash. Which is already what other decks do. Dinos can run black or blue.
your Ripjaw Raptor is just going to be a vanilla 4/5.
That's all you need to apply pressure here. You'll find many creatures in other winning archetypes that get no value. Hostage Taker is tricky to take advantage of VS UW, and if you do, its still a worse clock than Raptor.
Besides that, the Dinosaurs creatures right now are just clunky. Your best threats are all 4-drops or higher and your 2-drops are both mana dorks. Deathgorge Scavenger and Ranging Raptors may be the only 3-drop Dinosaurs remotely considered playable in green and red and both leave a lot to be desired in terms of power.
In your eyes. Scavenger is played across several archetypes, Raptors mess with combat in Energy, Ramunap and Gift MUs. The 5 and 6 drops are very good in creature MUs. It's just that you don't play the deck so you're not quite aware of how those MUs play out.
But as it stands right now, Dinosaurs are simply inferior to what we currently have available for Standard, especially in green and red: Glorybringer is a better 5-drop than Regisaur Alpha and Bristling Hydra is a better 4-drop than Ripjaw Raptor.
From what I watched, Hydra and Glorybringer were not the all-star creatures everybody expected. And once again, you don't know what you're talking about here cause you don't know what Alpha and Ripjaw can or can't do in the main MUs. It's not all about UW. Give it time.
Long story short, I agree with the fact UW is a needle in the foot of Dinos, but everywhere else, this archetype is strong enough, which means one can expect Dinos to put up decent results before Rivals.
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I have played the deck before which is how I know how badly this deck loses to what we should expect to see in this meta. I still firmly believe the power level is not what you'd expect and certainly below the other available options. More importantly, even if the power level of the deck is there, is it consistent enough?
Dinosaurs did about as well as I was expecting on the competitive floor week one. It is basically a slightly less fast Red Green Monsters deck from Theros block, and it's suffering at the moment because the developers wanted to be clever with how they handled the one mana on tribe accelerator. What the deck needs to compete is pretty simple:
1) An on color one drop mana generating creature.
2) A Dinosaur with an ability that interacts favorably with the board such as ETB "Fights another creature", "Non-creature spells and non-dinosaur spells cost 1 more to cast", etc.
3) A spell like Beasts Within for dinosaurs. Exile a permanent of any kind and they get a 3/3 dinosaur or something. I'd prefer it being costed at 3 mana, but I wouldn't be surprised if they put it at 4 cmc if they went with Exile.
That's basically the reason why we have to go with a third color to make the deck work. Seriously, though, if anyone is honestly paying attention to competitive magic right now and are mostly interested in winning games at the start of the new era with Ixalan and rotation, they should never have looked towards ixalan tribal for that solution. Tribal didn't really get good in Lorwyn until more of the block got released and the same situation is happening now with Ixalan.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
How has ranging raptors worked in your testings? I use it quite nicely with rile. The raptor hatchling is sort of a speed bump against RDW and is okay is normal matches. It does get a bit gross with rhonas.
It's straightforward and isn't obviously powerful. Slow draws are it's downfall. It's not particularly robust vs. midrange but I think it's fine vs. slower decks. I really want a mana dump in the deck -- Ramunap or Rhonas have to be it. Lists were playing 24 lands -- which might be right for Ramunap but I'm not certain.
Ideally, you're able to sequence a Ripjaw + Stomp + Deathgorge Scavenger to exile Scarab God though we might want to look at white spells.
If we play a white splash, I'd want it to be super light and for exclusively non-dinos in the SB.
I like Ajani Unyielding (draws cards, exiles Scarab God and large GBx creatures, Cast Out (I don't actually like this card in these types of lists but maybe we're forced to playing it in the SB), and (sort of a dino) Huatli, Warrior Poet (for breaking board stalls).
In standard, something like "non-flying creatures can't block" ala Magmatic Chasm can often be quite good. However, often games where they may be relevant never shape up as such. So if you sideboard a card like magmatic chasm you run the risk of having it be a dud. Huatli gives you that effect but having a real floor -- the floor being a PW that makes 3/3s.
Anyway, lend me your ears. I think the discussion has been pretty good and I like the initial post of this thread. I'm going to move this to SNCD as the primer unless I hear otherwise.
That list seems good Lugger. I'm not a huge fan of Deathgorge Scavenger, but I can see why people are using it (but I've only really seen in the sideboard of decks). There were a lot of Rampaging Ferocidon at worlds (Most in the sideboard, but some in the main). I'm personally playing Dinosaurs with the Energy Package (Attune with Aether, Harnessed Lightning, Servant of the Conduit, and Longtusk Cub) because it adds a bit more power to the deck. Might not be a "pure" Dinosaur deck, but I think this might work, plus we could easily add other colours if we want to.
I'm personally playing Dinosaurs with the Energy Package (Attune with Aether, Harnessed Lightning, Servant of the Conduit, and Longtusk Cub) because it adds a bit more power to the deck. Might not be a "pure" Dinosaur deck, but I think this might work, plus we could easily add other colours if we want to.
This is what I wanted to ask. If the lower curve should look more like Red Green Engery, then work into Dinos mid to late.
I'm personally playing Dinosaurs with the Energy Package (Attune with Aether, Harnessed Lightning, Servant of the Conduit, and Longtusk Cub) because it adds a bit more power to the deck. Might not be a "pure" Dinosaur deck, but I think this might work, plus we could easily add other colours if we want to.
This is what I wanted to ask. If the lower curve should look more like Red Green Engery, then work into Dinos mid to late.
The former is better in the aggro build for energy, which is actually where I'm thinking dinosaurs are going to show up the most. There's a lot of talk about people trying to side in Solemnity and siding in something like Ripjaw Raptor in place of Bristling Hydra and bringing in Carnage Tyrant may be one way to deal with it.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Just thought people should know, During Jim Davis' 48 hour stream with guest host Andrew Jessup, Jim played a Jund Dinosaur list that went 4-1 (Beating 3 Temur Energy decks, Esper Control, and loss to RDW - "side note MTGO bugged out and Jim was not able to sideboard during the RDW Match"). Andrew stated that he would add a energy package Attune with Aether, Harnessed Lightning, and Servant of the Conduit and would splash black for Vraska, Relic Seeker and Fatal Push.
From what Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa said in this article today, Dinosaurs were one of the decks they tested for worlds... Wish they would post the list they were working on.
So I've been playing a bunch of Dinosaurs lately, I noticed a bunch of people in this forum are splashing colors. I went a completely different route, I went straight RG, but I'm way lower to the ground than most people here.
One card I am at conflict that I see lots of people posting is Regisaur Alpha. That card has value written all over it, but the problem is how it contests with everything else available in the format. Why run that card when Glorybringer is huge in this environment? Really, what's the benefit of Regisaur? You get a 3/3 haste on turn 5? Then potentially more afterwards? Aren't games already nearly decided by then?Otepec Huntmaster is the better Haste enabler. It also dramatically reduces the cost, and puts you above the curve. Running less than 4 is a mistake imho.
We need to enable the consistency of our deck, and that also means working with cards like Commune the Dinosaurs. Making the card a flexible deck choice instead of just a consistency factor. I use the available deserts in both R/G to make this utility work.
My deck isn't the best version of Dinosaurs, but it takes a game plan and sticks to it. You need to pressure the Scarab God decks, Go over the top of the Red Decks, and play the value and aggro fight against Temur Energy. Going three colors doesn't seem to accomplish any of those goals.
I was on Youtube looking at videos, and then I saw this video in my feed from MTG Spotlight: Jundasaurs - A Competitive Deck For Ixalan Standard. At first I was like "Well lets see another bad Dino deck for standard", but well... this deck seems Really Good! I like a idea of adding black to the deck for cards like Fatal Push and Vraska's Contempt. I could even see this deck adding Vraska, Relic Seeker. One thing I could change would be to add 4x Duress into the sideboard and maybe cut two Carnage Tyrant.
The dino package is good at doing like, 15-18 points of damage -- so the deserts can be necessary to finish out the game; the same reason applies to Lightning Strike as opposed to any other 2 mana removal spell.
I wanted to lower the curve and add some evasion, so Heart of Kiran fits. A decent amount of your deck turns it on.
Deserts and Rhonas make 24 lands great. I would not run fewer.
Outside of turn 1, Commune is just tempo negative, and unlike Attune, it doesn't fuel an outside resource supply. Late game it finds you.... a Rampaging Ferocidon? That's going to win the board stall how? I've elected to try and end the game quickly, although the deck has some grind built in -- which is useful vs UW approach and UB Control.
There's MD GY hate as well as MD temur energy hate with both of my 3 drop dinos. They're probably the best cards in the deck just due to their flexibility and their ability to be played on turn 3 alongside a Savage Stomp.
The deck does not win board stalls, which is not a great indicator of a good midrange deck -- but it punishes ppl for misevaluating the board state -- which means it great for locals where the competition isn't great. I would not play this at, like, an Open.
I faced a BR Pirate deck (won 2-0), a Temur Energy deck (0-2), a GR energy deck (2-1), a Sultai Energy/Scarab God/Hostage taker deck (2-1). I will write something more detailed tomorrow. I lost in the Quarters to the same Temur Energy opponent (1-2).
It doesn't help much. The deck are packed with counter spells. If things do resolved, Cast Out and sweepers are waiting until we only have 1 attacker, their Gideon stalls the game until enough lands for Approach, and wins 2 turns later.
My current idea only to splash black or blue. Black for hand disruption cards like Duress, Doomfall or Heartless Pillage and blue, obviously to fight counter with counter like Spell Pierce and Negate. I prefer the former, as turn 1 Duress kinda helps a lot in gaining information of what they have.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Nah, BB in the main is tough, and it's probably not doable in the 75 anyway. there are other ways to steal G1 against Approach. Chandra has been MVP for me, I got to the ultimate several times. I think powerful PWs are the way to go MD, like even Nissa and Vraska could do the trick.
Yeah this has to be tested, the synergy looks real !
Chandra works in Jund, because black spells we want need only B, never BB. Also the mana is good enough thanks to Dragonskull Summit.
The problem is that Naya and Temur have awakward manabases, and there RR (or even GG) spells can be challenging.
- Spirebluff Canal + Botanical Sanctum is horrendous in a ramp deck that don't want land #4-5 to etb tapped. And Canal doesn't provide G, the #1 color.
- Inspiring Vantage + Sunpetal Grove + Scattered Groves give white a bigger part in the mana than red. Sweltering Suns, Chandra and Avatar become awkward. Vantage has the same issue as Canal here, not providing G. However I assume it's doable in these colors.
Blue has very little to offer too, while white and black are full of good cards for the archetype in a vacuum. Temur screams as the worse combination in my eyes.
The problem isn't dealing with single creatures. If so, it has to be a cheaper spell if it's a 1-for-1 : Push, Abrade, Cut, etc... or simply Savage Stomp. For 3 mana, you have Sweltering Suns that wrathes Ramunap Red, Vehicles, Sultai Energy, Esper Gift (hardcast creatures), all the creature decks that performed in the last Open. The card is good at breaking stall boards, and less punishing than the other available wraths.
I'd rather solve the problem with red and green cards before I go digging for black, white, or blue.
Mainly, I think a lot gets solved by lowering the curve. Play moderately large threats that aggressive attack the life total. Cards like Deathgorge Scavenger and Drover of the Mighty are aggressive and low to the ground. While not direct comparisons, think Gyre Sage and Flinthoof Boar.
I also like the package of playing Ramunap Ruins and Commune with Dinosaurs. Late game, this deck needs a mana dump and I think Ruins + Commune is a great way to dig and find exactly what you're looking for. Some of the better placing lists played the Hashep Oasis -- which doesn't make a ton of sense to me without evasion.
My point is this: there are tools to fight 2nd Sun but they aren't obvious. PWs are pretty on the nose but also prefectly reasonable -- I like Chandra.
Lowering your curve game one will do alot.
Also, did try cascading cataracts and a rivers rebuke online. That led to some fun conversations.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's a horribly narrow answer, but given the fact they are trying to cast a huge spell and are probably at least somewhat beaten down by that point in the game, it could act as a way to push final damage through. Assuming you can side it in game 2 it would be a pretty unexpected play.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
UW Control is one main reason why Dinosaurs won't make an impact this Standard, and the commentators mentioned that during GP Providence. In addition to getting blown out by Cast Out or Fumigate, you will also automatically lose to Settle the Wreckage, because all the powerful Dinosaurs don't come down until turn 4 or later (Or 3 if you get Huntmaster but can't attack until Turn 4), which puts you exactly within range of Settle the Wreckage; the extra mana ramp isn't also helpful to you on Turn 4, and if you try playing around it, you'll just get hit by Fumigate or at the very least buy the opponent more time to cast Approach of the Second Sun. And don't forget most white removals aren't damage-based so your Ripjaw Raptor is just going to be a vanilla 4/5. In fact simply because of UW Control is why I think he main midrange shells we'd expect to see in this meta going forward from GP Providence, Temur and Sultai Energy, are both running blue.
Besides that, the Dinosaurs creatures right now are just clunky. Your best threats are all 4-drops or higher and your 2-drops are both mana dorks. Deathgorge Scavenger and Ranging Raptors may be the only 3-drop Dinosaurs remotely considered playable in green and red and both leave a lot to be desired in terms of power.
Dinosaurs will need some MAJOR new tools in Rivals of Ixalan to be considered Standard playable. Some good examples would be some good 2-drop Dinosaurs or a land/another Dinosaur creature that reduces Dinosaurs' casting costs. But as it stands right now, Dinosaurs are simply inferior to what we currently have available for Standard, especially in green and red: Glorybringer is a better 5-drop than Regisaur Alpha and Bristling Hydra is a better 4-drop than Ripjaw Raptor.
If we must bring feature comments in the discussion, Jim Davis also said UW was the best G1 deck. That's not a flaw to lose to it G1 if most decks have an unfavorable G1 plan.
Note that the guys at GP Providence covered Limited, not Constructed. Commentators usually humbly express their astonishment when a deck beats everyone's expectations, which was the case during the SCG Open. Obviously commentators at a Limited Event won't change their mind until they witness otherwise, and for the time being, it's easy to trust them while they actually know ***** about how the format is shaping up...
Which is the case of most winning decks that run creatures.
All the wrath effects and their kills can be stripped or countered with a splash. Which is already what other decks do. Dinos can run black or blue.
That's all you need to apply pressure here. You'll find many creatures in other winning archetypes that get no value. Hostage Taker is tricky to take advantage of VS UW, and if you do, its still a worse clock than Raptor.
In your eyes. Scavenger is played across several archetypes, Raptors mess with combat in Energy, Ramunap and Gift MUs. The 5 and 6 drops are very good in creature MUs. It's just that you don't play the deck so you're not quite aware of how those MUs play out.
From what I watched, Hydra and Glorybringer were not the all-star creatures everybody expected. And once again, you don't know what you're talking about here cause you don't know what Alpha and Ripjaw can or can't do in the main MUs. It's not all about UW. Give it time.
Long story short, I agree with the fact UW is a needle in the foot of Dinos, but everywhere else, this archetype is strong enough, which means one can expect Dinos to put up decent results before Rivals.
1) An on color one drop mana generating creature.
2) A Dinosaur with an ability that interacts favorably with the board such as ETB "Fights another creature", "Non-creature spells and non-dinosaur spells cost 1 more to cast", etc.
3) A spell like Beasts Within for dinosaurs. Exile a permanent of any kind and they get a 3/3 dinosaur or something. I'd prefer it being costed at 3 mana, but I wouldn't be surprised if they put it at 4 cmc if they went with Exile.
That's basically the reason why we have to go with a third color to make the deck work. Seriously, though, if anyone is honestly paying attention to competitive magic right now and are mostly interested in winning games at the start of the new era with Ixalan and rotation, they should never have looked towards ixalan tribal for that solution. Tribal didn't really get good in Lorwyn until more of the block got released and the same situation is happening now with Ixalan.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is what I play.
4 raptor hatchling
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Rhonas, the Indomitable
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Savage Stomp
4 rile
2 blossoming defense
9 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 deathgorge scavenger
2 Magma Spray
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Burning Sun's Avatar
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4x Otepec Huntmaster
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Deathgorge Scavenger
4x Rampaging Ferocidon
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Regisaur Alpha
Spells: (12)
4x Lightning Strike
4x Savage Stomp
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Ramunap Ruins
7x Forest
3x Mountain
2x Desert of the Indomitable
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Vance's Blasting Cannons
2x Blossoming Defense
4x Shock
2x Heroic Intervention
3x Abrade
This is what I'm jamming right now.
It's straightforward and isn't obviously powerful. Slow draws are it's downfall. It's not particularly robust vs. midrange but I think it's fine vs. slower decks. I really want a mana dump in the deck -- Ramunap or Rhonas have to be it. Lists were playing 24 lands -- which might be right for Ramunap but I'm not certain.
Ideally, you're able to sequence a Ripjaw + Stomp + Deathgorge Scavenger to exile Scarab God though we might want to look at white spells.
If we play a white splash, I'd want it to be super light and for exclusively non-dinos in the SB.
I like Ajani Unyielding (draws cards, exiles Scarab God and large GBx creatures, Cast Out (I don't actually like this card in these types of lists but maybe we're forced to playing it in the SB), and (sort of a dino) Huatli, Warrior Poet (for breaking board stalls).
In standard, something like "non-flying creatures can't block" ala Magmatic Chasm can often be quite good. However, often games where they may be relevant never shape up as such. So if you sideboard a card like magmatic chasm you run the risk of having it be a dud. Huatli gives you that effect but having a real floor -- the floor being a PW that makes 3/3s.
_______________________________________________________________
Anyway, lend me your ears. I think the discussion has been pretty good and I like the initial post of this thread. I'm going to move this to SNCD as the primer unless I hear otherwise.
-- Lugger
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
Also, Does Voltaic Brawler or Nissa, Vital Force add anything?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
The former is better in the aggro build for energy, which is actually where I'm thinking dinosaurs are going to show up the most. There's a lot of talk about people trying to side in Solemnity and siding in something like Ripjaw Raptor in place of Bristling Hydra and bringing in Carnage Tyrant may be one way to deal with it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Link to stream (it should be around the end) : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/180851798
Jim's list: https://imgur.com/a/9PH2D
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/mono-red-at-worlds/
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
4x Otepec Huntmaster
4x Deathgorge Scavenger
4x Rampaging Ferocidon
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Regisaur Alpha
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4x Lightning Strike
4x Savage Stomp
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Ramunap Ruins
2x Mountain
5x Forest
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2x Ajani Unyielding
1x Nissa, Vital Force
2x Abrade
2x Appetite for the Unnatural
4x Shock
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
Ajani is for housing Scarab God.
The white isn't as bad as it looks.
One card I am at conflict that I see lots of people posting is Regisaur Alpha. That card has value written all over it, but the problem is how it contests with everything else available in the format. Why run that card when Glorybringer is huge in this environment? Really, what's the benefit of Regisaur? You get a 3/3 haste on turn 5? Then potentially more afterwards? Aren't games already nearly decided by then?Otepec Huntmaster is the better Haste enabler. It also dramatically reduces the cost, and puts you above the curve. Running less than 4 is a mistake imho.
We need to enable the consistency of our deck, and that also means working with cards like Commune the Dinosaurs. Making the card a flexible deck choice instead of just a consistency factor. I use the available deserts in both R/G to make this utility work.
Here is my list;
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Carnage Tyrant
1 Prey Upon
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
2 Abrade
4 Savage Stomp
2 Samut, The Tested
6 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Hashep Oasis
3 Ramunap Ruins
4 Sheltered Thicket
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Vance's Blasting Cannons
2 Chandra's Defeat
1 Abrade
2 Magma Spray
3 Rampaging Ferocidon
2 Crushing Canopy
My deck isn't the best version of Dinosaurs, but it takes a game plan and sticks to it. You need to pressure the Scarab God decks, Go over the top of the Red Decks, and play the value and aggro fight against Temur Energy. Going three colors doesn't seem to accomplish any of those goals.
4 Sheltered Thicket
2 Field of Ruin
7 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Drover of the Mighty
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Ranging Raptor
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Savage Stomp
4 Abrade
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Raging Swordtooth
1 Vance's Blasting Cannons
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Magma Spray
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Rampaging Ferocidon
1 Nissa, Vital Force
MTG Spotlight's Decklist:
3x Blooming Marsh
3x Dragonskull Summit
5x Forest
3x Mountain
4x Rootbound Crag
2x Sheltered Thicket
2x Swamp
Creature (22)
4x Carnage Tyrant
4x Deathgorge Scavenger
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Regisaur Alpha
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
4x Ripjaw Raptor
2x Abrade
4x Fatal Push
4x Lightning Strike
2x Vraska's Contempt
Sorcery (4)
4x Commune with Dinosaurs
1x Abrade
2x Appetite for the Unnatural
2x Cut
4x Magma Spray
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Sweltering Suns
Link to the Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UyDDfDXhzA (Also the Intro is Awesome!)
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
4x Drover of the Mighty
4x Rampaging Ferocidon
4x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Rhonas the Indomitable
4x Ripjaw Raptor
4x Regisaur Alpha
2x Heart of Kiran
4x Savage Stomp
4x Sheltered Thicket
4x Rootbound Crag
4x Ramunap Ruins
1x Hashep Oasis
8x Forest
3x Mountain
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Shock
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Abrade
1x Slice in Twain
2x Carnage Tyrant
The dino package is good at doing like, 15-18 points of damage -- so the deserts can be necessary to finish out the game; the same reason applies to Lightning Strike as opposed to any other 2 mana removal spell.
I wanted to lower the curve and add some evasion, so Heart of Kiran fits. A decent amount of your deck turns it on.
Deserts and Rhonas make 24 lands great. I would not run fewer.
Outside of turn 1, Commune is just tempo negative, and unlike Attune, it doesn't fuel an outside resource supply. Late game it finds you.... a Rampaging Ferocidon? That's going to win the board stall how? I've elected to try and end the game quickly, although the deck has some grind built in -- which is useful vs UW approach and UB Control.
There's MD GY hate as well as MD temur energy hate with both of my 3 drop dinos. They're probably the best cards in the deck just due to their flexibility and their ability to be played on turn 3 alongside a Savage Stomp.
The deck does not win board stalls, which is not a great indicator of a good midrange deck -- but it punishes ppl for misevaluating the board state -- which means it great for locals where the competition isn't great. I would not play this at, like, an Open.
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If the deck splashes black, I think it would only be for Fatal Push and Unlicensed Disintegration.
No idea where you guys are getting the idea for BB spells. At 8 sources and mana dorks -- that's insanely suspicious.
my list is
4 Sheltered Thicket
3 Ramanup Ruins
4 Mountain
7 Forest
4 Commune with Dinosaurs
4 Savage Stomp
4 Abrade
4 Otepec Huntmaster
4 Ranging Raptors
4 Ripjaw Raptor
4 Regisaur Alpha
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Rhonas the Indominable
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Samut the Tested
3 Rampaging Ferocidon
4 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Magma Spray
I faced a BR Pirate deck (won 2-0), a Temur Energy deck (0-2), a GR energy deck (2-1), a Sultai Energy/Scarab God/Hostage taker deck (2-1). I will write something more detailed tomorrow. I lost in the Quarters to the same Temur Energy opponent (1-2).
3 Regisaur Alpha
3 Waking Ballista
2 Wakening Sun's Avatar
2 Burning Sun's Avatar
2 Carnage Tyrant
2 Gishath, Sun's Avatar
1 Verdant Sun's Avatar
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
Spells
4 x Hour of Promise
4 x Gift of Paradise
3 x Beneath the Sands
3 x Cast Out
2 x Fumigate
2 x Settle the Wreckage
1 x Mountain
1 x Scavenger Grounds
2 x Ramunap Ruins
3 x Forest
3 x Plains
3 x Sunpetal Grove
4 x Scattered Groves
4 x Hashep Oasis
4 x Sheltered Thicket
3 Sunscourge Champion
2 Autority of the Consuls
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Appetite for the Unnatural
2 Ajani Unyielding
2 Abrade
1 Overwhelming Splendor
1 Carnage Tyrant