I know there is already a thread for control decks but here I am focusing on strictly UW Control, not others like grixis, UB, UR or even Bant, so please don't suggest other colors or splashes.
I have a solid list already, there are just a few questions I have and thought maybe other people could help me with some ideas and answers incase anyone else has testing and/or exp with this deck, before release weekend during the week after pre-release I made a UW control list after just coming back to magic after a two year break, UW based Draw-Go Control is my favorite archtype and I always try to force it when I can. When creating this list I used a specific formula I use for all my Draw-Go control decks which is just a list of personal guidelines I follow while I build my deck. I tried to look online before I built it and tried to research what I can but I could find little to nothing on UW Control in the current standard meta so I built this list blind, I took the list to release weekend and went 5-0 with it taking first place, playing all aggro decks from Mardu Vehicles, RG energy, RW Aggro, RG Midrange and BG Constrictor, and the deck did very very well against all of them. after the tournament was over, I had a couple people tell me they were going to try and build a slimilar list because of how well it did that weekend and then a few days later EFro (Eric Froelich (spelling?)) made a channel fireball Deck of the day post with a list very similar to my own so I am expecting my current local meta to have an increase in control decks.
To get to the point, this weekend is a "Standard Showdown" with very good prizes and payouts and I am expecting a very good turnout at that tournament, and with an expected increase of control decks and possible mirror matches I just need some ideas on how to strengthen my matchup against the mirror and other control decks and what my win-cons should be. I have tweaked the deck since the first tourny but here is the original list that I ran.
I really liked Regal Caracal on it's on, it's 7 for 5 Cmc with lifelink, against aggro and midrange and can help clog up the board, and gain back some life, against removal they need multiple cards to remove it all, I just personally Like the card. I run Glimmer of Genius over the Cycling one because I rather dig 4 deep than have the chance at an early cycle, just personal preference since I don't have a cycling subtheme. I barely used fumigate with all the removal and counters I had so I thought 2 mainboard would be fine. Censor is amazing either it counters them on curve or they play around it which basically makes them wait a turn to do everything and it cycles late game in my honest opinion it's either run 4 or 0 because you always want it on turn 2. Since that tourny and the expectation of more control this coming weekend I changed the list to this:
My main questions are, given there is a lot of aggro in the current meta, and the chance of an increase in control decks what should my wincons be and in what numbers? (I added 2x Westvale Abbey to the list which I was not running in my original List
3x Gearhulk/2x Glyph keeper?
3x Gearhulk/1x Glyph Keeper/1x Sphinx of the Final Word?
3x Gearhulk/1x Glyph Keeper/1x Regal Caracal?
Go back to 3x Gearhulk/2x Regal Caracal?
I went from 4 down to 3 Cast-Out from 3 down to 2 Fumigate based on how much I used them for more Pull from Tomorrow, is that correct based on the meta moving foward? Maybe even go up to 3 Blessed Alliance for against other Glyph Keepers/Sphinx of the Final Word
What number of Pull from Tomorrow should I run? Max I would personally run is 3 but maybe it should only be two since I run 4x Glimmer.
P.S. Yes I run 61 cards maindeck. It's how I prefer to play my Draw-Go Control decks, will not change.
I've been reasonably happy with 3 Gideon of the Trials, 2 Gearhulks, and 2 Approach of the Second Sun as finishers. Gideon does double duty buying you time early and beating down late. In the heavier blue Engulf the Shore control deck I run 4 Gearhulks and 1 Approach. The Approach is nice because so many decks just can't interact with it.
4 Pull from Tomorrow all day every day. The card is amazing. Trading off resources one for one and then putting a bunch of new cards in your hand is what Draw-Go is all about. I expect quite a few control mirrors to be determined in the coming standard by who resolves the better Pull.
I like 4 Hieroglyphic Illumination to go with the Pulls instead of Glimmer. The critical mass of cycle cards keeps you fueled up with gas and when they start to sputter out the Pulls come in and put you over the top. Illumination cycles early and cashes in for value late (from your hand or off a Gearhulk).
If you're worried about opposing Sphinxes you might want a Summary Dismissal or two in the side. It's also nice against wandering Ulamogs.
I've been testing and tuning this list quite a bit. For some reason, I keep missing Lands drops early even with a bunch of cyclers and 27 lands in the deck. Hopefully the bad variance ends soon, but it's still been performing very well for me. No one else has been playing Stasis Snare, but it's been an important piece of the removal suite for me, being able to hit creatures that aren't attacking which the instants can't and manlands which Cast Out can't. Glyph Keeper is just a very resilient threat as long as you watch out for Void Shatter and Westvale abbey is a nice backup threat.
I played in the showdown, I took first place again second week in a row going 5-0, I played against RW Humans (2-0), GW Humans (2-0) GB Delirium (1-0-1), Bant Control (2-0) and in the finals UB Control (1-0 not enough time to play game two).
Delirium after sideboard game two was very hard, I think i played it correctly, he was able to stick a Lily turn 3 and was able to get to her Ult quickly, I had the disallow in hand so i could only play enough to keep his board in check but not tap out to play my own wincon because I had to keep disallow mana up, finally he popped her ult with 1 or 2 loyalty left on her, i disallowed it and drew the Fumigate to clear an Ishkanah, 3 spiders a Ghonti and a walking ballista to stabilize and go to time, so I got the win for taking game 1.
In the finals against UB control it was a long grindy game which was a lot of land go, counter wars and attrition. I played it the best I could, I wasn't confident I was even going to win but thankfully I had westvale abby to make a dude to chip away damage, and with minutes left in the round i was able to take care of his last gearhulk and fly over his Ghonti with a glyph keeper after spending all game getting him down to a small hand size. It was one of the funnest games of magic i've ever played and tempo went back and forth the whole 55mins. I won game one and the round ended before we could start game two.
Things I learned, Glyph Keeper is AMAZING it was bomb in every matchup I played it. The deck is ALWAYS Consistent there were a couple games I mulled and still won because of the scry and card draw, a couple games I missed my land drops early but I play enough 2cmc spells where I always was able to answer most things until I got more land, and having the ability to cycle cast out and censor early is really nice. Also I had originally went from 3 fumigate down to 2 but before the tourney I went back up to 3 which I am really glad I did. I really love the deck, it's doing extremely well for me going 5-0 two weeks in a row, I think UW is def a heavy weight contender and going to be around awhile.
This is the version of the list I decided to run at the standard showdown and felt it was the right call with things like 2 negate mainboard and 3 fumigates instead of 2, I didnt play against many planeswalker decks so 3 cast out seems fine with 1 in the board and very happy with my wincons of Gearhulk and Glyph Keeper which was always amazing for me...List:
I don't have any testing with Gideon, I like both Jace and dovin, I sideboard one Jace for control matchups to increase threat density and I think dovin is fine. I couldn't find a place for him. It's hard because I play draw-go and can't really afford to tap out on turn 4 most games. But I want to test with him because if you can nullify one of their creatures you can force them to over extend into a fumigate but that's more against slower midrange decks. But I have a hard time including planeswalkers into the list because turns 2-6 I want to be able to l leave up Mana for counters and spot removal and play card draw when I don't need to. Then turn 6+ just gain card advantage and keep the board in check with counters and fumigate get them down to no cards in hand maybe flash in some gearhulks to counter or kills stuff maybe drop a glyph keeper with counter magic up and ride it to victory. I don't like tapping out. I really want to try and find room for kefnet because he is so good. It's just hard because with all the pages of notes I've taken, data, statistics etc I don't have much wiggle room for changes maindeck. My current meta is like 60% aggro 40% control after hblast tourny so I have to run things like 3 pull I'd like to run 4 just can't have too many early. I feel 3 is correct. 2 negate main board and my wincons gearhulk and glyph keeper. 3 cast out is fine for me it's a good flash catch-all maybe go to 4 if there is a large number of walker decks that surface but for now it's good, I see some lists run 1-2 censor which I don't feel is correct, I want it in my opening hand and on curve every game so I feel it's run 4 or none. I think the card is amazing so I run 4. But to get to the original point. I like the planeswalkers I just can't fit them into my list because I need to always have Mana open. But you could sideboard some depending on your meta. None of them effect the board so if you are behind they won't catch you up. Maybe draw you a card before they die so kefnet or maybe the bigger gideon are prob better. I hope this helped it's just my testing and personal opinion.
The weekend got booked up, so my youngest and I went to FNM. I drafted and he went ahead and played it. They only had 4 rounds with the SCG event being nearby and he went 2-1-1; losing to New Perspectives and beating Mono-black Zombies and BG Energy. He could've made it to game 3 against New Perspectives, but his opponent had double Dispel on the crucial turn and being his first match with the deck he was sure he misplayed a little.
He split in the final round with Temur Marvel (he wanted to play it out afterwards, but we were getting ready to leave) I guess he did play a fun match against Marvel afterwards and he said he crushed it). I asked him how he enjoyed the deck and what cards he liked, didn't like, etc.
He really enjoyed Gideon of the Trials. Depending on the match-up he could push him out there on turn 3 or wait until turn 5 with counter back-up. He could then wipe the board and start swinging. He used each of his modes multiple times and won a game he would've lost against the zombies deck because of the emblem. His opponent had to attack Gideon to have a chance to win, but that gave him the time to Pull from Tomorrow for 4 and Anticipate to find a Fumigate to wipe the board.
The one-of Dovin Baan was useful and was like having a 2nd Gideon of the Trials on board. With the card draw he was able to get them both out a few times and together and they really stalled out the opponent. He thought one copy was fine though.
Kefnet the Mindful was very good as a late game finisher and kept him flush with cards. Casting a Pull in response to an attack was always good. He thought maybe go 2 in the main, but has decided to stay with the 1/1 split.
Both Stasis Snare and Cast Out were great. A little mana intensive, but if they aren't swarming the board you can pick things off pretty well.
We originally had 4 Censor in the deck, but replaced them with something else (as suggested by Shaheen Soorani on his Friday SCG article). In our case it was with 2 Anticipate and 2 Torrential Gearhulk. No regrets there. He did get to do the dream combo of Gearhulk into Commit // Memory on opponent's end step.
He sided in mostly more counterspells and hardly played any of the sideboard creatures (I believe he sided in Linvala once).
From how RavynVT is describing his deck, it looks to play similar, where you're countering and removing things, but allows for a wider threat base. You do sacrifice some control in the early game to get them in play, but once they're there, it was great (at least according to him).
Thanks for the report!
Gideons and Kefnets make it much easier to incorporate Fumigate since you are no longer relying 100% on T-hulk as your finisher.
I actually did put in one Immolating Glare since I couldn't find a second Blessed Alliance, but the decklist I initially made didn't have them in.
I personally like Blessed Alliance more for the life gain, but can see the need for Immolating Glare as well. I'm sure you can mix-and-match however you need for your meta or sideboard a certain way for them.
Thanks for the report!
Gideons and Kefnets make it much easier to incorporate Fumigate since you are no longer relying 100% on T-hulk as your finisher.
I'm playing a budget U/W control deck, you can see it in the budget forum but I don't get what is the point of Dovin Baan. I have one but haven't found a space for him main deck. My finishers of choice are 2 Sphinxes of the last word, 2 Regal Caracals and 1 Sphinx of Magosi and last but not least 2 Approach of the second sun.
I need to survive to win with Approach most of the time so that's why I'm playing the Regal Caracals to fill the board out against creature decks. However I do want to buy 2 Kefnets and play those instead of the Regal Caracals main deck. Just a note that Sphinx of the final word is a BOMB main deck and it has won me many games as well as making sure I can cast the 2nd Approach without fear of it being countered.
How's your guys sideboard like?
This is mine right now:
2 Fumigate (against non-counter creature decks)
2 Immolating Glare (against creature decks)
2 Dispel (against counter decks)
2 Forsake the worldly (against decks with artifacts including those with T. Gearhulks)
2 Vizier of many faces (against creature decks or control decks)
2 Horribly Awry (against creature decks)
1 Commit/Memory (against decks running planeswalkers)
1 Sphinx of the final word (against counter decks, mirror match, U/R, etc...)
1 Insidious Will (just testing this, haven't used it yet in a game) - no idea what I can copy...still thinking about it.
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Here's what I've been toying with online. Sideboard keeps changing but I have Drake Havens in case I get Lost Legacy by someone. Also some Negates.
Hey all, I've been toying with a control list on Xmage, and it has been doing fairly well. Beat a fairly stock zombie deck as well as a Cryptolith Rite deck, but would love some additional testing help. I won't list my sideboard as it keeps changing, but I have some amounts of Negate and Essence Scatter as well as Drake Haven for an additional wincon in case I get Lost Legacy against me.
I took down FNM last night, and split a box and a half with the other finalist. I handily beat him in pools, so I only intentionally drew to get home early. I was very confident against an unknown field with the variant I put together. This is the second consecutive week playing UW Control into a position tied for first, and I've been quite happy with the switch over from UB/Esper control shells. The list:
I like the split between finishers and Pull from Tomorrows. Triple Torrential would be fine if you wanted to take out the maindeck Forsake the Worldly, but I honestly dread having two 6CMC+ spells rotting in my hand in the early turns. I got better use out of casting Pull as early as turn four or five, just to fix my hand to be better suited for the late game. I've noticed UR Control variants which have a 4-1 split between Torrential/Pull suffer from not being able to fix their hand as often, early on. Electing to trim my top end makes it easier to jockey for the upper hand in a counter war.
Another design choice is that I prefer the singleton Sphinx main, considering you need a little more beef than just a few Gearhulks. Though a bit slow, it does work all across the board. It's a finisher that helps to stabilize versus aggro if they're on the 'kind-of-put-a-board presence-out-then-remove-the-one-blocker' plan. I can't stress how many times Gearhulk has gotten nixed by the likes of Stasis Snare or Unlicensed Disintegration when I've tried to use it as a combat trick. Having a blocker with built-in protection can be extremely crucial for that reason. On the other hand, Sphinx simply houses control mirrors, so I figure I'd hedge my pre-boarded games with it.
Another point of consideration for my 75 is how I'll transition into the next metagame. Until HoD, Forsakes are now a little more of a flex spot than before, with Marvel's banning going into effect. After HoD, I might toy with an Approach of the Second Sun plan, as the new instant 'Supreme Will' lets you dig four deep after you resolve the Approach the first time, while doing a decent Mana Leak impression. Hard to say if I'll cut Disallow to one or two copies to make room for a set of Supreme Will in such a shell.
The last point of consideration is the anti-aggro plan. This deck seems well suited to fight that battle, but if your metagame is very fast, it can be correct to load the sideboard with a set of Thing in the Ice (removing Regal Caracal, Forsake, and a Spontaneous Mutation to make room.) I'm still not set on the configuration against a heavy Human/Zombie field, but I seem to have fared decently well against them so far, so I'll have to get more data to conclude whether a change is needed.
Looking forward to seeing if we get any other tools in the next set! Any C&C is appreciated. n___n
I took down FNM last night, and split a box and a half with the other finalist. I handily beat him in pools, so I only intentionally drew to get home early. I was very confident against an unknown field with the variant I put together. This is the second consecutive week playing UW Control into a position tied for first, and I've been quite happy with the switch over from UB/Esper control shells. The list:
As a U/W control MASTER I am quite concerned with your lack of threats or win conditions. I have my own build of U/W control and my win conditions right now are 3 Keftnet, 2 Sphinx of the Final Word and 2 Approach of the second sun. The approaches win me most of the games actually. You have a lot more removal than me, but I have more counters which has worked fro me quite well. Anyways, I'm waiting for more info about Hour of Devastation cards so I can add some other creatures as win conditions or some other cards to clear the board.
I also don't like censor at all, I've cut them all out of the deck and prefer to run 4 Essence Scatters, 3 Negates, 2 Void Shatters, 2 Disallows, 2 Failure/Comply and 1 Commit/Memory.
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Kefnet is awful in the maindeck. If you have to mulligan, and draw a copy of Kefnet while facing off against a threat-heavy build, you're pretty much dead on the spot.
Gabriel Nassif just posted a very interesting new take on UW control. His version goes all-in on the cyclers on the theory that the major problem with most UW control lists is that you get caught in between the problem that if you flood out you lose and if you miss a land drop before turn six you lose. He aims for consistency by including sixteen cyclers:
The sideboard plan is to generally tweak two or three cards for most matchups and to bring in the transformative creature package for Mardu. The whole video is worth watching just to listen to Nassif narrate his thought process as he navigates through the games.
I didn't catch him saying the 16+ cyclers were for consistently getting to his 6th land drop on curve, but that's also the reason I went that route. You lose games when you're playing clunky Standard-costed spells like Fumigate and Disallow when you're not always booting up your mana.
However I will still dispute the likes of Essence Scatter forever and always. It is simply ineffective unless you're fighting for parity or already ahead, so it has the same problems against aggro that discard spells do, except it's much more narrow in application. I don't want to be topdecking a dead 3-of when it's meant to answer something that I still need to find an answer for
That said, I'm confused by his board plan. It seems like a reach to have to muck up your 75 for one shell, and most of what he has going on doesn't really bridge his 75 into itself too well (he had problems keeping in dead cards instead of rotating all his dead cards from the main for good cards out of the board)
Ergo, I feel this is just a spitball decklist but it has some upside. I highly doubt he'd sleeve this up for a PT as is.
He has an article up on CFB talking about the deck. I can see where he has the room for a transformational sideboard as the max-cyclers plan doesn't leave a lot of flex space, but I agree that it seems a bit clunky. I'd also be inclined to have an Approach of the Second Sun somewhere in the 75. I might just have an irrational affection for that card, though.
So, I've been brewing with a U/W list tweaked to beat Mono R on the upcoming gameday, small meta (probably 10-12 players), but I can say at least 50% of the meta will be mono R, and an even bigger share will be aggro, be it snek.dec, energy variants or vehicles and I know 2 of my friends will bring U/R/x (most likely grixis) variants.
Anyways, here's my list. Is there something blatant I'm missing or would this be enough to get free wins vs 70%+ of the meta.
Any hints or tips greatly appreciated. I'm still looking for some decent replacements for Westvale Abbey but combined with Oketra's last mercy they have pulled me out of some tricky situations, albeit quite, very, VERY, slowly.
Edit: Main issue I have is dealing with a T2 Heart of Kiran on the play, but I think I've only lost 1 match to the only vehicles player after a 3 hr playtest session yesterday.
You need to play 4 Fumigates and 4 Blessed Alliances in your deck if you hope to withstand the power of the mono-red deck. Thraben inspector and Dovin Baan are useless against that deck so you should take those out. Also you have no card draw, you need some glimmer of genius or pull from tomorrow in your deck, without those you will die after turn 4 or 5 for sure when you run out of answers.
So my advice is to put in:
2 Fumigate
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Glimmer of genius
1 Pull from tomorrow
Take out:
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Dovin Baan
1 Oketra's Last Mercy
1 Supreme Will
That should work out much better for you to make sure that you can survive past turn 5 and get your gearhulks out!
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I've been on UW Control since Amonkhet came out and I've had decent success, but I haven't gone up against much mono-red. Mine is a combination of Hareruya's HOU list and Gabriel Nassif's.
I have a solid list already, there are just a few questions I have and thought maybe other people could help me with some ideas and answers incase anyone else has testing and/or exp with this deck, before release weekend during the week after pre-release I made a UW control list after just coming back to magic after a two year break, UW based Draw-Go Control is my favorite archtype and I always try to force it when I can. When creating this list I used a specific formula I use for all my Draw-Go control decks which is just a list of personal guidelines I follow while I build my deck. I tried to look online before I built it and tried to research what I can but I could find little to nothing on UW Control in the current standard meta so I built this list blind, I took the list to release weekend and went 5-0 with it taking first place, playing all aggro decks from Mardu Vehicles, RG energy, RW Aggro, RG Midrange and BG Constrictor, and the deck did very very well against all of them. after the tournament was over, I had a couple people tell me they were going to try and build a slimilar list because of how well it did that weekend and then a few days later EFro (Eric Froelich (spelling?)) made a channel fireball Deck of the day post with a list very similar to my own so I am expecting my current local meta to have an increase in control decks.
To get to the point, this weekend is a "Standard Showdown" with very good prizes and payouts and I am expecting a very good turnout at that tournament, and with an expected increase of control decks and possible mirror matches I just need some ideas on how to strengthen my matchup against the mirror and other control decks and what my win-cons should be. I have tweaked the deck since the first tourny but here is the original list that I ran.
26 Land
Creatures:
3x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Regal Caracal
Spells:
4x Immolating Glare
4x Censor
3x Essence Scatter
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Negate
3x Disallow
4x Glimmer of Genius
4x Cast-Out
3x Fumigate
1x Pull From Tomorrow
2x Dispel
3x Negate
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Dovin Baan
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Spell Queller
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Glyph Keeper
I really liked Regal Caracal on it's on, it's 7 for 5 Cmc with lifelink, against aggro and midrange and can help clog up the board, and gain back some life, against removal they need multiple cards to remove it all, I just personally Like the card. I run Glimmer of Genius over the Cycling one because I rather dig 4 deep than have the chance at an early cycle, just personal preference since I don't have a cycling subtheme. I barely used fumigate with all the removal and counters I had so I thought 2 mainboard would be fine. Censor is amazing either it counters them on curve or they play around it which basically makes them wait a turn to do everything and it cycles late game in my honest opinion it's either run 4 or 0 because you always want it on turn 2. Since that tourny and the expectation of more control this coming weekend I changed the list to this:
26 Land (Added 2 Westvale Abbey)
Creatures:
3x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Glyph Keeper
Spells:
4x Immolating Glare
4x Censor
3x Essence Scatter
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Negate
3x Disallow
4x Glimmer of Genius
3x Cast-Out
2x Fumigate
3x Pull From Tomorrow
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Kefnet the Mindful
2x Forsake the Worldy
1x Cast-Out
2x Fumigate
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2x Regal Caracal
2x Sphinx of the Final Word
My main questions are, given there is a lot of aggro in the current meta, and the chance of an increase in control decks what should my wincons be and in what numbers? (I added 2x Westvale Abbey to the list which I was not running in my original List
3x Gearhulk/2x Glyph keeper?
3x Gearhulk/1x Glyph Keeper/1x Sphinx of the Final Word?
3x Gearhulk/1x Glyph Keeper/1x Regal Caracal?
Go back to 3x Gearhulk/2x Regal Caracal?
I went from 4 down to 3 Cast-Out from 3 down to 2 Fumigate based on how much I used them for more Pull from Tomorrow, is that correct based on the meta moving foward? Maybe even go up to 3 Blessed Alliance for against other Glyph Keepers/Sphinx of the Final Word
What number of Pull from Tomorrow should I run? Max I would personally run is 3 but maybe it should only be two since I run 4x Glimmer.
P.S. Yes I run 61 cards maindeck. It's how I prefer to play my Draw-Go Control decks, will not change.
UWUW ControlUW
4 Pull from Tomorrow all day every day. The card is amazing. Trading off resources one for one and then putting a bunch of new cards in your hand is what Draw-Go is all about. I expect quite a few control mirrors to be determined in the coming standard by who resolves the better Pull.
I like 4 Hieroglyphic Illumination to go with the Pulls instead of Glimmer. The critical mass of cycle cards keeps you fueled up with gas and when they start to sputter out the Pulls come in and put you over the top. Illumination cycles early and cashes in for value late (from your hand or off a Gearhulk).
If you're worried about opposing Sphinxes you might want a Summary Dismissal or two in the side. It's also nice against wandering Ulamogs.
4 Censor
4 Essence Scatter
4 Disallow
4 Engulf the Shore
3 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Glimmer of Genius
3 Stasis Snare
4 Cast Out
2 Gideon of the Trials
Creatures 3
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Lands 26
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Plains
12 Island
C Long Live Eldrazi C
1 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
3 Immolating Glare
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Disallow
1 Void Shatter
2 Stasis Snare
4 Cast Out
3 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Fumigate
4 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
2 Blighted Cataract
1 Westvale Abbey
6 Plains
6 Island
3 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Essence Scatter
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Forsake the Worldly
2 Stasis Snare
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
1 Glyph Keeper
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
Modern: UW Spirits
Delirium after sideboard game two was very hard, I think i played it correctly, he was able to stick a Lily turn 3 and was able to get to her Ult quickly, I had the disallow in hand so i could only play enough to keep his board in check but not tap out to play my own wincon because I had to keep disallow mana up, finally he popped her ult with 1 or 2 loyalty left on her, i disallowed it and drew the Fumigate to clear an Ishkanah, 3 spiders a Ghonti and a walking ballista to stabilize and go to time, so I got the win for taking game 1.
In the finals against UB control it was a long grindy game which was a lot of land go, counter wars and attrition. I played it the best I could, I wasn't confident I was even going to win but thankfully I had westvale abby to make a dude to chip away damage, and with minutes left in the round i was able to take care of his last gearhulk and fly over his Ghonti with a glyph keeper after spending all game getting him down to a small hand size. It was one of the funnest games of magic i've ever played and tempo went back and forth the whole 55mins. I won game one and the round ended before we could start game two.
Things I learned, Glyph Keeper is AMAZING it was bomb in every matchup I played it. The deck is ALWAYS Consistent there were a couple games I mulled and still won because of the scry and card draw, a couple games I missed my land drops early but I play enough 2cmc spells where I always was able to answer most things until I got more land, and having the ability to cycle cast out and censor early is really nice. Also I had originally went from 3 fumigate down to 2 but before the tourney I went back up to 3 which I am really glad I did. I really love the deck, it's doing extremely well for me going 5-0 two weeks in a row, I think UW is def a heavy weight contender and going to be around awhile.
This is the version of the list I decided to run at the standard showdown and felt it was the right call with things like 2 negate mainboard and 3 fumigates instead of 2, I didnt play against many planeswalker decks so 3 cast out seems fine with 1 in the board and very happy with my wincons of Gearhulk and Glyph Keeper which was always amazing for me...List:
26 Land (2 Westvale Abbey)
Creatures:
3x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Glyph Keeper
Spells:
3x Immolating Glare
4x Censor
3x Essence Scatter
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Negate
3x Disallow
4x Glimmer of Genius
3x Cast-Out
3x Fumigate
3x Pull From Tomorrow
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Kefnet the Mindful
2x Forsake the Worldy
1x Cast-Out
1x Summary Dismissal
2x Fumigate
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2x Regal Caracal
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
UWUW ControlUW
Can you list your mana base?
Thanx
C Long Live Eldrazi C
4x Irrigated Farmland
4x Prairie Stream
4x Port Town
2x Westvale Abbey
7x Island
5x Plains
UWUW ControlUW
C Long Live Eldrazi C
UWUW ControlUW
3 Gideon of the Trials
1 Dovin Baan
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Fumigate
4 Cast Out
3 Stasis Snare
2 Disallow
2 Anticipate
2 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
3 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Commit // Memory
2 Irrigated Farmland
4 Prairie Stream
4 Port Town
1 Blighted Cataract
2 Westvale Abbey
7 Island
6 Plains
2 Dispel
3 Spell Queller
2 Forsake the Worldly
1 Essence Scatter
1 Glyph Keeper
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Negate
1 Linvala the Preserver
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
The weekend got booked up, so my youngest and I went to FNM. I drafted and he went ahead and played it. They only had 4 rounds with the SCG event being nearby and he went 2-1-1; losing to New Perspectives and beating Mono-black Zombies and BG Energy. He could've made it to game 3 against New Perspectives, but his opponent had double Dispel on the crucial turn and being his first match with the deck he was sure he misplayed a little.
He split in the final round with Temur Marvel (
he wanted to play it out afterwards, but we were getting ready to leave) I guess he did play a fun match against Marvel afterwards and he said he crushed it). I asked him how he enjoyed the deck and what cards he liked, didn't like, etc.He really enjoyed Gideon of the Trials. Depending on the match-up he could push him out there on turn 3 or wait until turn 5 with counter back-up. He could then wipe the board and start swinging. He used each of his modes multiple times and won a game he would've lost against the zombies deck because of the emblem. His opponent had to attack Gideon to have a chance to win, but that gave him the time to Pull from Tomorrow for 4 and Anticipate to find a Fumigate to wipe the board.
The one-of Dovin Baan was useful and was like having a 2nd Gideon of the Trials on board. With the card draw he was able to get them both out a few times and together and they really stalled out the opponent. He thought one copy was fine though.
Kefnet the Mindful was very good as a late game finisher and kept him flush with cards. Casting a Pull in response to an attack was always good. He thought maybe go 2 in the main, but has decided to stay with the 1/1 split.
Both Stasis Snare and Cast Out were great. A little mana intensive, but if they aren't swarming the board you can pick things off pretty well.
We originally had 4 Censor in the deck, but replaced them with something else (as suggested by Shaheen Soorani on his Friday SCG article). In our case it was with 2 Anticipate and 2 Torrential Gearhulk. No regrets there. He did get to do the dream combo of Gearhulk into Commit // Memory on opponent's end step.
He sided in mostly more counterspells and hardly played any of the sideboard creatures (I believe he sided in Linvala once).
From how RavynVT is describing his deck, it looks to play similar, where you're countering and removing things, but allows for a wider threat base. You do sacrifice some control in the early game to get them in play, but once they're there, it was great (at least according to him).
Gideons and Kefnets make it much easier to incorporate Fumigate since you are no longer relying 100% on T-hulk as your finisher.
Surprised to see no Immolating Glare
C Long Live Eldrazi C
3x Baral, Chief of Compliance
2x Kefnet the Mindful
Sorceries (3)
2x Fumigate
1x Rise from the Tides
Instants (19)
4x Censor
3x Disallow
2x Dispel
1x Glimmer of Genius
4x Negate
2x Pull from Tomorrow
3x Void Shatter
3x Dovin Baan
Enchantments (6)
3x Cast Out
3x Compulsory Rest
Land (24)
2x Irrigated Farmland
11x Island
7x Plains
4x Port Town
Here's the list I've cooked up
I personally like Blessed Alliance more for the life gain, but can see the need for Immolating Glare as well. I'm sure you can mix-and-match however you need for your meta or sideboard a certain way for them.
I need to survive to win with Approach most of the time so that's why I'm playing the Regal Caracals to fill the board out against creature decks. However I do want to buy 2 Kefnets and play those instead of the Regal Caracals main deck. Just a note that Sphinx of the final word is a BOMB main deck and it has won me many games as well as making sure I can cast the 2nd Approach without fear of it being countered.
How's your guys sideboard like?
This is mine right now:
2 Fumigate (against non-counter creature decks)
2 Immolating Glare (against creature decks)
2 Dispel (against counter decks)
2 Forsake the worldly (against decks with artifacts including those with T. Gearhulks)
2 Vizier of many faces (against creature decks or control decks)
2 Horribly Awry (against creature decks)
1 Commit/Memory (against decks running planeswalkers)
1 Sphinx of the final word (against counter decks, mirror match, U/R, etc...)
1 Insidious Will (just testing this, haven't used it yet in a game) - no idea what I can copy...still thinking about it.
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Mtg Lifestyle
Hey all, I've been toying with a control list on Xmage, and it has been doing fairly well. Beat a fairly stock zombie deck as well as a Cryptolith Rite deck, but would love some additional testing help. I won't list my sideboard as it keeps changing, but I have some amounts of Negate and Essence Scatter as well as Drake Haven for an additional wincon in case I get Lost Legacy against me.
4 Anticipate
4 Censor
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Disallow
3 Immolating Glare
3 Pull from Tomorrow
4 As Foretold
3 Cast Out
3 Fumigate
2 Approach of the Second Sun
Land
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Fetid Pools
4 Irrigated Farmland
7 Island
3 Plains
4 Prairie Stream
2 Scattered Groves
2 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Cast Out
1 Stasis Snare
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Immolating Glare
3 Fumigate
1 Forsake the Worldly
4 Censor
4 Disallow
2 Negate
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Irrigated Farmland
3 Prairie Stream
2 Westvale Abbey
1 Blighted Cataract
7 Island
5 Plains
2 Kefnet the Mindful
2 Regal Caracal
3 Spontaneous Mutation
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Skywhaler's Shot
1 Forsake the Worldly
1 Descend upon the Sinful
I like the split between finishers and Pull from Tomorrows. Triple Torrential would be fine if you wanted to take out the maindeck Forsake the Worldly, but I honestly dread having two 6CMC+ spells rotting in my hand in the early turns. I got better use out of casting Pull as early as turn four or five, just to fix my hand to be better suited for the late game. I've noticed UR Control variants which have a 4-1 split between Torrential/Pull suffer from not being able to fix their hand as often, early on. Electing to trim my top end makes it easier to jockey for the upper hand in a counter war.
Another design choice is that I prefer the singleton Sphinx main, considering you need a little more beef than just a few Gearhulks. Though a bit slow, it does work all across the board. It's a finisher that helps to stabilize versus aggro if they're on the 'kind-of-put-a-board presence-out-then-remove-the-one-blocker' plan. I can't stress how many times Gearhulk has gotten nixed by the likes of Stasis Snare or Unlicensed Disintegration when I've tried to use it as a combat trick. Having a blocker with built-in protection can be extremely crucial for that reason. On the other hand, Sphinx simply houses control mirrors, so I figure I'd hedge my pre-boarded games with it.
Another point of consideration for my 75 is how I'll transition into the next metagame. Until HoD, Forsakes are now a little more of a flex spot than before, with Marvel's banning going into effect. After HoD, I might toy with an Approach of the Second Sun plan, as the new instant 'Supreme Will' lets you dig four deep after you resolve the Approach the first time, while doing a decent Mana Leak impression. Hard to say if I'll cut Disallow to one or two copies to make room for a set of Supreme Will in such a shell.
The last point of consideration is the anti-aggro plan. This deck seems well suited to fight that battle, but if your metagame is very fast, it can be correct to load the sideboard with a set of Thing in the Ice (removing Regal Caracal, Forsake, and a Spontaneous Mutation to make room.) I'm still not set on the configuration against a heavy Human/Zombie field, but I seem to have fared decently well against them so far, so I'll have to get more data to conclude whether a change is needed.
Looking forward to seeing if we get any other tools in the next set! Any C&C is appreciated. n___n
As a U/W control MASTER I am quite concerned with your lack of threats or win conditions. I have my own build of U/W control and my win conditions right now are 3 Keftnet, 2 Sphinx of the Final Word and 2 Approach of the second sun. The approaches win me most of the games actually. You have a lot more removal than me, but I have more counters which has worked fro me quite well. Anyways, I'm waiting for more info about Hour of Devastation cards so I can add some other creatures as win conditions or some other cards to clear the board.
I also don't like censor at all, I've cut them all out of the deck and prefer to run 4 Essence Scatters, 3 Negates, 2 Void Shatters, 2 Disallows, 2 Failure/Comply and 1 Commit/Memory.
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Mtg Lifestyle
C Long Live Eldrazi C
7 Island
4 Prairie Stream
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Blighted Cataract
4 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
2 Negate
2 Disallow
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Aether Meltdown
1 Stasis Snare
4 Cast Out
2 Fumigate
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
1 Quarantine Field
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Glyph Keeper
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Dispel
1 Shielded Aether Thief
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
1 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Descend Upon the Sinful
4 Spell Queller
2 Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Thalia's Lancers
1 Linvala, the Preserver
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
The sideboard plan is to generally tweak two or three cards for most matchups and to bring in the transformative creature package for Mardu. The whole video is worth watching just to listen to Nassif narrate his thought process as he navigates through the games.
However I will still dispute the likes of Essence Scatter forever and always. It is simply ineffective unless you're fighting for parity or already ahead, so it has the same problems against aggro that discard spells do, except it's much more narrow in application. I don't want to be topdecking a dead 3-of when it's meant to answer something that I still need to find an answer for
That said, I'm confused by his board plan. It seems like a reach to have to muck up your 75 for one shell, and most of what he has going on doesn't really bridge his 75 into itself too well (he had problems keeping in dead cards instead of rotating all his dead cards from the main for good cards out of the board)
Ergo, I feel this is just a spitball decklist but it has some upside. I highly doubt he'd sleeve this up for a PT as is.
Anyways, here's my list. Is there something blatant I'm missing or would this be enough to get free wins vs 70%+ of the meta.
8 Plains
7 Island
4 Irrigated Farmland
3 Prairie stream
2 Port town
2 Westvale Abbey
Spells 21
4 Censor
4 Essence scatter
4 Supreme Will
4 Cast out
2 Fumigate
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Oketra's Last Mercy
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
Walkers 4
3 Dovin Baan
1 Jace, Unraveler of secrets
2 Sphinx of the final word
3 Horribly Awry
3 Authority of the consuls
3 Dispel
4 Negate
Any hints or tips greatly appreciated. I'm still looking for some decent replacements for Westvale Abbey but combined with Oketra's last mercy they have pulled me out of some tricky situations, albeit quite, very, VERY, slowly.
Edit: Main issue I have is dealing with a T2 Heart of Kiran on the play, but I think I've only lost 1 match to the only vehicles player after a 3 hr playtest session yesterday.
You need to play 4 Fumigates and 4 Blessed Alliances in your deck if you hope to withstand the power of the mono-red deck. Thraben inspector and Dovin Baan are useless against that deck so you should take those out. Also you have no card draw, you need some glimmer of genius or pull from tomorrow in your deck, without those you will die after turn 4 or 5 for sure when you run out of answers.
So my advice is to put in:
2 Fumigate
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Glimmer of genius
1 Pull from tomorrow
Take out:
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Dovin Baan
1 Oketra's Last Mercy
1 Supreme Will
That should work out much better for you to make sure that you can survive past turn 5 and get your gearhulks out!
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Mtg Lifestyle
1x Blessed Alliance
4x Censor
1x Commit
2x Disallow
3x Essence Scatter
4x Hieroglyphic Illumination
3x Immolating Glare
1x Pull from Tomorrow
3x Supreme Will
2x Archangel Avacyn Flip
2x Torrential Gearhulk
4x Irrigated Farmland
8x Island
7x Plains
4x Prairie Stream
1x Approach of the Second Sun
2x Declaration in Stone
3x Fumigate
1x Hour of Revelation
1x Cast Out
1x Gideon of the Trials
1x Bruna, the Fading Light
1x Descend upon the Sinful
2x Dispel
2x Gisela, the Broken Blade
1x Linvala, the Preserver
2x Negate
4x Spell Queller
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
1x Summary Dismissal
I prefer Illumination over Glimmer because of the cheap cycling. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't worry about them ever clogging my hand before turn 4.