I have been playing around with bringing in Authorities against them. Not sure it is the right play but is very funny every time they drop a token you gain 1-3 life. Follow with a Fumigate, 50+ life is pretty easy to get. Pretty sure there are better sideboard options, but that is the funniest.
If you don't want to just laugh... I am trying to find room in my sideboard for Hour of Revelation. Between BW tokens, vehicles making a comeback and the treasure token decks, it is becoming a lot more useful. You do have to play around your cast outs and make sure to turn your Gideon into a dude first so he will gain indestructibility. Tokens so far really have not been that bad a matchup, they tend to be very slow which gives us time to do what we want. Just be ready for the Duress and Lost Legacies out of the sideboard.
I think Hour of revelation causes too much tension with other parts of the deck. It also may not turn on too easily to only cost 3.
I think a key discussion we need to have is around opt. Is it even worth it? I have found myself wanting to trim copies and I see now lists have cut it completely. Valid cards to put in its place are illuminations, essence scatter, azcanta and disallows.
Another change im looking to make is a pull from tomorrow in place of one glimmer. One thinking is that it helps fuel azcanta and sometimes you have a window to resolve for 4 or 5 which is pretty much game.
The Sb is currently not optimzed, but I still like 3 Gearhulks, and 2-3 Gideon. It's possible that the 7th Plains should be another Desert of the True (I think the Shefet Dunes was a concession to needing that W to come into untapped).
The desert package has been quite good. Desert's Hold has impressed in every creature match up and milling out opposing control decks is viable. I'd like to message this player and get some input on his SB plans, but there is a significant decrease of ramunap red, locally and on mtgo. I have a PPTQ this weekend, and will be running approach over Temur since I know that most of the spikes in my area on some energy variant.
Opt isn't worth it, and I am also not a fan of Aether meltdown, I would rather just have 7 sweepers in the main and chain them. It works.
It should be noted that hand disruption alone doesn't beat this deck, nor does countermagic on it's own. However, both together are a pain to deal with. I think our worst match up is Sultai Energy (after SB'ing). They can clock us, disrupt us, and use permission to keep our sweepers at bay. Every other match up feels fine, the control mirror is highly skill intensive, U/B G1 is favorable, after board the deck needs a solid plan. U/B Control is the one match up that needs some ironing out, they go small, and bring in 2 drops. We could do the same, I was thinking of Glory-bound Initiate or Adorned Pouncer (the latter plays well with Carcals). I need to test this before Sat.
You aren't looking to mill decks like temur, or tokens. You are looking to mill U/x control, and the mill plan also works in the Mirror. Milling yourself also gets 4 into the yard thus putting you closer to your approach. G1's are about staying alive, you control that board ans stall up until the point where you hit the 'opps I win button". In that sense, this isn't a traditional control deck G1.
Example, you have 8 lands in play, cast your first approach. Cool, that's 7 cards deep, maybe you don't have 2-3 turns , so you untap, draw, (now approach is 6 cards away). Let's say you draw cycling card, well, you pass, they do their thing, you cycle, (now you are 5 cards away), and the you mill 4, (now approach is 1 card away). You untap, draw approach and it's on to G2. That is why you play Ipnu Rivulet.
Played paper today, the differences between mtgo and paper are real. I missed some interactions, and just didn't shuffle enough. The deck performed great! It would've gone 3-0 but I went 2-1-0. I won the mirror in G3, with 0 cards in my library. I milled him out and held the fort down with an active Gideon and Gearhulk to protect him. Gideon is just...he's good and he's making it into my 75 on Sat.
Vs Mono Black aggro I dropped the wrong land (thought it was Rivulet and instead played a Glacial Fortress), I played Desert's Hold but due to my quick reaction I just went full on blonde mode and missed ganing 3 life. I lost that match by 1 life...
The deck is good, I really like the desert package.
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Standard Arena: Eh? Gruul or Die
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
@OperationRemie - don't you know you are just supposed to lose to tier one decks? I mean that is why they are tier one and not some stupid do nothing deck.
There are several guys at my LGS that get really pissed when I don't play 'real' magic, instead just sit there and durdle until I win. It is fine for them to play all of the stupid, busted creatures/removal/walkers but sit there and 'do nothing' just pisses them off. But usually, these are the same guys that get pissed when they get beat by aggro, because it is stupid. Scarab God, please don't get me started. Entergy decks, who came up with that broken mechanic. Mirror match, you just got the cards and I couldn't draw anything.
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
Played paper today, the differences between mtgo and paper are real. I missed some interactions, and just didn't shuffle enough. The deck performed great! It would've gone 3-0 but I went 2-1-0. I won the mirror in G3, with 0 cards in my library. I milled him out and held the fort down with an active Gideon and Gearhulk to protect him. Gideon is just...he's good and he's making it into my 75 on Sat.
Vs Mono Black aggro I dropped the wrong land (thought it was Rivulet and instead played a Glacial Fortress), I played Desert's Hold but due to my quick reaction I just went full on blonde mode and missed ganing 3 life. I lost that match by 1 life...
The deck is good, I really like the desert package.
Nice, I haven't really looked at the desserts but they do look strong. I just get a little concerned about adding more come into play tapped lands. I run 2-3 Gideon main now. He just does so much work for me, his +1 saves you so much life and just stales the game (which is very good for us) and a lot of games I have won with the 4/4 beatdown plan.
I was looking at Adorned Pouncer the other day. I agree we need an early drop that can add pressure against the aggro matchup. My biggest issue with Regal Cats right now is every Red player knows we are bringing them in. Usually, they turn into a 5 mana 2 - 1/1 tokens before I pass the turn. Currently, I board in 2 Sunscourge Champion and 4 Cats. The combined pressure is normally enough. I also bring those in against any deck that I don't think I can get there with Approach, mostly Bx that will board in Duress and sometimes Lost Legacy.
My list is focused on beating Temur, and Control game 1. My Sb is a concession that aggro is still an arch type I need to beat after SB. It might be better to have the 4th Caracal, but Gideon is a house in the mirrors.
If Vehicles picks up the list will need to change. I'm not set up to deal with Toolcrafts into hearts....
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
After FNM last night, me and a friend who also runs Approach talked about the deck. We both thought the weakest part right now was the 2 mana removal slot. I have tried going Esper but the mana was just not consistent enough. I always felt like it was turn 3-5 before I had the mana I needed. Then we started talking about splashing red, it has 2 fast lands in the right colors. Got me to thinking, so today I worked on the list below and have been jamming a bunch of games online. This is what I have come up with. The 8 fast lands and 4 Aether Hub makes for a very smooth early mana base. The later game lands that come in tapped are pretty easy to work around. So far very impressed with the changes. I tried adding Chandra, Torch of Defiance but as much as I like her, she just doesn't fit into the deck.
So after a ton of different versions today, I ended up just adding 2 Abrade and 4 Harnessed Lightning. That is all the deck really needed and it made all the difference in the world. The early spot removal makes mono red fill like almost an even matchup Game 1. Just depends on who has the better hand. I have not gone up against any control decks yet but should be able the same as standard U/W. Still working on the sideboard and all of the numbers. Take a look and let me know what you guys think.
My list is focused on beating Temur, and Control game 1. My Sb is a concession that aggro is still an arch type I need to beat after SB. It might be better to have the 4th Caracal, but Gideon is a house in the mirrors.
If Vehicles picks up the list will need to change. I'm not set up to deal with Toolcrafts into hearts....
Not to be a hater but what's with the singleton Negate and Essence Scatter in the deck, they're not cards that you'd benefit from playing only 1 of. Also you should choose between running Aether Meltdown or Desert's Hold and not split each to 2 only, it'd be better if you just run 3-4 of one of them. If you are still running Glimmer of Genious and Aether Melt. you should just run Confiscation Coup either main deck or in the sideboard to make use of the energy you get.
Anyway, good luck at your tournament! Let the Sun shine a 2nd time!
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Nope, and also 4 casting cost spells in Approach are kind of iffy, since almost everyone is playing Cast Out which is far better than the other possible 4 drops, and having too many 4 drops can cause a problem after turn 6 when you have six lands out and want to be able to cast 2 or 3 spells but if you have too many 4 drops you'd be able to cast only 1 spell.
That's why my deck is filled with 2 casting cost spells (negate, essence scatter, thaumatic compass, search for azcanta) and 3 casting cost spells (champion of wits, sunscourge champion, disallow, supreme will, kefnet).
The only 4 casting cost spells are 3 Settle the Wreckage and 3 Cast Out, and because of that the deck runs very smoothly after hitting the 6th land.
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Well the day started as a clean 3-0. Was first up until round 4 and then the wheels feel off. Ended 3-3 for a 17th place finish out of 40. Not great.
Matches:
Vs Sultai Energy 2-1 Win
Vs 4c Energy 2-1 Win
Vs U/B Control 2-1 Win
Vs R/w Vehicles 1-2 Loss
vs Ramnunap Red 1-2 Loss (I miss played here, had a massive headache and punted, the deck would've gone 2-0)
Vs Temur 0-2 Variance hit and I didn't draw my 5th land in game 1 after cycling 5x. G2 dealt with the board, but he top decked 3 glorybringers and I couldn't find an approach.
The desert package really turned some heads today. Not only did it work, but it shored up the issues the deck has with early interaction. Xaltair, you are right about the split, and it was wrong to play Negate / Essence Scatter in the main. This is something I caught at round 4, when all I wanted to do was find early interaction. also, I don't mind the critique, we are here to get input and suggestions; so thanks for reassuring what i saw today.
Is the deck good? YES. 2-1 today vs Engery Variants and I won a control mirror because...well I don't lose control mirrors often. Plus, I banked on my control opponent screwing up Marjorly G3 and he did.
Write up:
Vs Sultai 2-1 Win
G1 Mull to 5, and despite this I was 1 turn away from stabilizing. G2, the early interaction works, I lock down his board, force him to overextended into a Fumigate backed by sweepers with negate back up. I had 2 approaches in hand and chained them. G3, he flooded a bit but I managed to make my censors count.
Vs 4c Energy 2-1 Win (great player. he top 8'd and is well known grinder in the scg circuit).
So, G1 I get blown out by a main deck Supreme Will from Temur. Gosh, that was a rough.
G2, I stabilize but he manages to top deck Glorybringer and a hydra. I had resolved an approach the turn before glorybringer came down. He played masterfully and got the read that I had gearhulk in hand (remember I had tapped out to cast approach, I have 9 lands in play w/ non Flipped Azcanta). He takes me down to 3 from 15! I'm super dead on board. I untap and azanta reveals a Cast Out. Well this doesn't get me out of this, so I cycle it away, and get a censor, not good enough either (I figure I'm just dead ), but I cycle it anyway. I draw the 2nd approach and hit the "opps I win button".
G3. He flooded a bit but I had complete control of the board and push approach to resolve with negate backup.
Vs U/B Control 2-1 Win
G1 is a slan DUNK with the desert package. You can't lose.
G2, yep this is bad, I get destroyed by glint sleeves (I predicted it)
G3 I start to get the feeling that I can leverage my own skill as a control player and decide to go back to the approach plan. My plan was simple: Get to 14 mana, force a bottle neck of mana, and win by dictating the pace of the game by playing the combo win aspect of the deck. It worked, but I banked on him misplaying; He did. He kept the same beat down package and to be honest, I was super dead. Like, I had better odds at winning big by playing a slot machine, however...I brought back in my removal and managed to deal with all his 2cmc dudes. I aggressively forced him into spending mana on counters and wound up clearing the board. The 1st approach resolves and eats a negate (fine, I didn't flinch). I draw into my other 2 approachs and then he casts duress[/card. My hand was double Approach of the Second Sun, Cast Out, supremem will and 2x lands. See the lands meant that I was going to hit 14 mana. He took the cast out... Okay....he then proceeds to cast The Scarab-God. He has effectively tapped 6 mana, with 4 up. I cast Supreme Will and he negates it. OKAY...everyone is watcing us, it's like T3 of extra turns and I untap, play my 14 land and cast the 2nd approach. He negates it, I then cast the 3rd approach and that's when he realizes that he doesn't have the 2nd counter. I win the game. By all accounts I was super dead, but I crafted a plan and won. Would this win against a better control player ? NO, but it worked.
Vs R/W Vehicles 1-2 Loss
G1, I did what the deck does. Removed his things, Gideon held down a heart for 5 turns and I removed all this threats.
G2, I got steam rolled
G3, Never found an approach, or threat. Flooded and lost.
Vs Ramunap Red (1-2) Loss (super duper headache)
G1, I win, by some miracle my desert package removal works,. Aether Meltdown was REALLY good.
G2, I had this..,I got tired man. I missed my Field of Ruin activation and failed to remove 2 Ruins...I lose to deserst shooting me in the face.
G3 Went deep but I couldn't find an approach or Caracal. Ran out of gas and died.
Vs Temur 0-2 Energy Variance hits
G1 Yep, I never draw my 5th land to fumigate on time and win up cycling 6 cards only to find my 5th land on T8. Oh and my fumigate got Supreme Will'd. Funny, that negate isn't looking bad anymore.
g2, Top deck war, I stablize, but he top decks a Glorybringer after bricking for a turn.
So there is the write up. If I don't misplay against Ram Red, I go 4-2 and get into top 8.
Cards I want to test: Daring saboteur for the U/B match up. it's our version of Glintsleeve only it has evasion and loots. Adnored Pouncer may be a little too cute. Carcals have been under performing, but Gideon has been SUPER awesome. The desert package really works, going forward I want to cut Essence Scatter from the main and keep the Negate. +1 Aether Meltdown
This deck is still not solved, but it's really good. Turned some heads and with proper play execution, the deck rewards tight play.
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
Cycling , and yes deserts hold over performed. Plus it's a viable plan g1 vs control. It also helps you get to your approaches faster. My version runs 16 cycling cards, so I should say , the deck has more card filtering and ways to smooth out draws. We talke for hours regarding the mana base, my teams liked deserts hold as an answer to gods and creatures.
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Modern: Decks I'm playing right now: G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record) C Eldrazi Tron (9-5) UG Infect RW Burn
In my opinion staying U/W is the correct choice to make sure we get the right mana we need in the first 5-6 turns which are crucial for this deck. I am a big fan of running a full set of counterspells to deal with 2 drops on turn 2, that is why I am running 4 Essence scatter and 2 Negates main deck with 2 more negates in the sideboard.
AS for removal, I think that having 3 Settle the wreckage, 3 Fumigates and 3 Cast out are enough in the main deck. The counterspells do count as removal as well and they are meant to be cast for the early turns. In the midgame I also have Thaumatic Compass to flip and be able to shut down one creature each combat step which made a big difference in the games I played last week, the lands are not legendary so you can have 2 of them out at the same time.
Unfortunately, I won't have time to play any games in the next couple of weeks but the deck is built already and is just waiting for me. I don't believe in splashing another color at all, especially not for removal. As for alternate win conditions, I think that Gearhulk is too slow at 6 mana, so that is why I have 2 Kefnet main deck as well as the 3 Champion of wits and 3 Sunscourge champions which after being eternalized are quite capable of beating down on an opponent.
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Lets talk about sideboarding. Seems like the big dog right now is Entergy decks. Temur or Sultai. How are you guys sideboarding. I kinda know what I want to bring in but it just does not seem like we have a lot that is bad in that match up, so hard to take stuff out. I feel like game one we are pretty heavy favorites but G2 and G3 we fall behind, or at least I do. I think I trying to do to much.
Below are a couple of the top lists from the last few days. If you were running one of those, on the play and on the draw, what would you do. Or if you have some other sideboard tech, what is it?
Thanks just trying to get a discussion going on how to beat one of the top decks.
Match one was a relatively easy 2-0. My opponent admitted that it was the first time he was playing it, and it showed (for example, he used Field of Ruin to blow up Glacial Fortress in the early rounds when I had Search for Azcanta out rather than waiting until I flipped to Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin). In game 1, there was a nervy moment was when he resolved The Scarab God, but I managed to get rid of it by casting Fumigate and then Disallow on the triggered ability. Double approach for the win. Game 2 was the war of the counterspells. He cast Duress turn 1 and snagged Approach. I aggressively countered his attempts to resolve Hieroglyphic Illumination to keep him down on card advantage, which made things much easier for me.
Match 3 was the toughest of the three, and I would have lost if my opponent had respected Settle the Wreckage a bit more. I used it to hit 3 of his 5 creatures one attack (leaving Longtusk Cub and Whirler Virtuoso), and when he thought the path was clear, he used the Virtuoso to make 7 Thopters and attacked with the squad...right into my Torrential Gearhulk (bringing back Settle the Wreckage).
It was my first time taking this deck out for a spin, and overall, it felt really good. Some of my takeaways:
Against black, consider mulliganing opening hands that have Approach in them. It's not a card you want until later anyway, and you give your opponent an easy Duress target.
Gideon of the Trials was great out of the sideboard, but I'm considering taking him out of the main board. There's something nice about giving your opponent 0 targets for removal, and having him in the main gave my UB control opponent a good target for Vraska's Contempt (he exiled both of my Gideons in game 1). I feel like making your opponent have a ton of dead cards is one of the biggest strengths of this deck game 1.
I was never stoked to see Opt past turn 1 and am considering cutting it (I realize that this is when you want to see Opt, but still felt like filler).
As tempted as I've been to cut Censor it overperformed against the Temur Energy deck, getting rid of a Bristling Hydra and a Glorybringer. Temur needs to be the Aggro deck to beat us, which means turn 3 hydra and turn 4 glorybringer, and it feels so good to Censor those away.
Gideon's Intervention underperformed, and at 4 mana, I don't think it's something I want to run in the future.
Some cards I want to try out (comments/thoughts welcome--I'm not on MTGO and don't have a ton of time to test different cards):
I'm going to experiment with 2 Thaumatic Compass/Spires of Orazca in the main. Between it and Search for Azcanta, it allows us to hit our land drops while also giving mild ramp that lets us approach sooner, and Ithing their best creature will keep us alive longer.
Commit // Memory: Interested in thoughts for this card in the mirror or against Duress. Seems like a good way to use those Ipnu Rivulets aggressively and also give you a way to get those Duressed Approaches back, but mana cost seems high.
Failure // Comply: Thoughts on this card as sideboard tech? Seems like it could be useful to pave the way for the second Approach (take that, Negate)...
Cataclysmic Gearhulk: What do folks think about using this as sideboard tech against tokens/creature-based strategies (RR, Temur Energy)? It's almost a wrath and the 4/5 body could bring the beats.
River's Rebuke is another card I think is worth consideration for the sideboard given the many creature-based matchups we'll likely face.
Any other suggestions for lifegain/not dying against aggro matchups beyond Sunscourge Champion would be appreciated. Renewed Faith and Sanguine Sacrament seem worth testing as an instant-speed life bump, and Oketra's Last Mercy might do a good job of keeping us alive for 1-3 more turns for 3 mana. I even paused while looking at Exquisite Archangel in my binder...I don't know if we want to load up on more 7-drops (and turn 7 is a long time to wait for something to keep you alive against aggro), but it's a card anyway...
Finally, a question: there have been references to a "Desert Package" for this deck, but it's not clear what that means. Is it just a couple copies of Desert's Hold combined with replacing a plains and island with Desert of the Mindful and Desert of the True?
Thanks everyone...the information in this thread is really helpful for me. I'm surprised that this deck hasn't had better results at big tournaments, but I'm guessing it's because (1) it's less represented in the meta and (2) variance seems to hurt us more in the aggro matchup than it hurts aggro against us.
Lets talk about sideboarding. Seems like the big dog right now is Entergy decks. Temur or Sultai. How are you guys sideboarding. I kinda know what I want to bring in but it just does not seem like we have a lot that is bad in that match up, so hard to take stuff out. I feel like game one we are pretty heavy favorites but G2 and G3 we fall behind, or at least I do. I think I trying to do to much.
Below are a couple of the top lists from the last few days. If you were running one of those, on the play and on the draw, what would you do. Or if you have some other sideboard tech, what is it?
Thanks just trying to get a discussion going on how to beat one of the top decks.
Some of my thoughts on cards for the sideboard are in my prior post. I like Solemnity and Kefnet the Mindful against Energy. With wrath backup, I think you can afford to take turn 3 off to cast either and either (1) hose the core of your opponent's deck or (2) throw up a big blocker that they don't really have an answer for. I could see bringing in Gideon of the Trials as well, although he gets Glory-brought pretty easily.
Energy is really tough though because their deck is so dense with threats. I was always happy to draw Fumigate and Settle the Wreckage.
@the_codaddy - Thanks for the nice detailed write up and gratz on the good results at the showdown.
The two cards you asked about that I have used: Ixalan's Binding - I currently run a 3/1 or 4/1 split with Cast Out and considering moving that to a 3/2 split. So far I am never unhappy to see it unless I don't have any targets. The ability to keep your opponents from casting one of there biggest threats is so nice. It has done so much work for me in the last week or so where I have been testing it online and at FNM. Highly recommend.
Failure // Comply - It is a good card, and I really like it, just not sure what I want to cut to add it. Makes a really nice 1 of in your deck. The Remand effect does buy you a turn and sometimes that is all you need. Bouncing your Approach to cast it the next turn has actually come up a few times. Using Comply, secret tech here, you don't have to name a card until after it resolves. This is very important. I have cast it when I had 8 mana in a mirror match. They let it resolve because they had two different counters in their hand. I named Approach. That meant I could cast mine to see if it would resolve without them casting their's next turn while I was tapped out.
I am a fan of any card that is can easily eat 2 different counterspells by itself. The more you use it the more ways you will find to use it. But again, not sure where to make room for it.
I agree about the card to go in against Temur, but what do you cut? The deck never seems to run as smooth on game 2 or 3 as it did in game 1.
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
My cuts for the temur matchup are as follows. especially given that we are on the draw game 2 because game 1 is a breeze.
4 Censor, 1 Pull from tomorrow/Glimmer, 2 Gideon, 1 Supreme Will
In 4 negate, 2 Gearhulks, 2 Gylph Keepers.
Censor is already being played around by Temur so they take sub-optimal lines. We want to turn into a more controlling deck. Frequently the game comes down to turn 6/7 having a settle/fumigate with a negate backup. I would say the macthup is even overall except we have two chances to win the match given there poor win percentage game 1 Glyph Keeper is a current flex slot I am trying out. Kefnet wasnt doing enough for me and is dealt with by other control decks. If glyph keeper doesnt work then tempted to try angel of sanctions
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If you don't want to just laugh... I am trying to find room in my sideboard for Hour of Revelation. Between BW tokens, vehicles making a comeback and the treasure token decks, it is becoming a lot more useful. You do have to play around your cast outs and make sure to turn your Gideon into a dude first so he will gain indestructibility. Tokens so far really have not been that bad a matchup, they tend to be very slow which gives us time to do what we want. Just be ready for the Duress and Lost Legacies out of the sideboard.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
I think a key discussion we need to have is around opt. Is it even worth it? I have found myself wanting to trim copies and I see now lists have cut it completely. Valid cards to put in its place are illuminations, essence scatter, azcanta and disallows.
Another change im looking to make is a pull from tomorrow in place of one glimmer. One thinking is that it helps fuel azcanta and sometimes you have a window to resolve for 4 or 5 which is pretty much game.
5-0 list player StanleySteamer
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
4 Censor
1 Essence Scatter
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Negate
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Supreme Will
Enchantments (10)
2 Aether Meltdown
4 Cast Out
2 Desert's Hold
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Desert of the Mindful
1 Desert of the True
2 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
3 Island
6 Plains
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Essence Scatter
3 Negate
3 Authority of the Consuls
1 Gideon of the Trials
2 Regal Caracal
1 Scavenger Grounds
2 Slash of Talons
1 Solemnity
1 Spell Pierce
List I have been running
3 Approach of the Second Sun
4 Fumigate
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Glimmer of Genius
2 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Censor
3 Supreme Will
1 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
2 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Desert's Hold
4 Cast Out
Lands
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
1 Desert of the True
1 Desert of the Mindful
2 Field of Ruin
3 Island
7 Plains
The Sb is currently not optimzed, but I still like 3 Gearhulks, and 2-3 Gideon. It's possible that the 7th Plains should be another Desert of the True (I think the Shefet Dunes was a concession to needing that W to come into untapped).
The desert package has been quite good. Desert's Hold has impressed in every creature match up and milling out opposing control decks is viable. I'd like to message this player and get some input on his SB plans, but there is a significant decrease of ramunap red, locally and on mtgo. I have a PPTQ this weekend, and will be running approach over Temur since I know that most of the spikes in my area on some energy variant.
Opt isn't worth it, and I am also not a fan of Aether meltdown, I would rather just have 7 sweepers in the main and chain them. It works.
It should be noted that hand disruption alone doesn't beat this deck, nor does countermagic on it's own. However, both together are a pain to deal with. I think our worst match up is Sultai Energy (after SB'ing). They can clock us, disrupt us, and use permission to keep our sweepers at bay. Every other match up feels fine, the control mirror is highly skill intensive, U/B G1 is favorable, after board the deck needs a solid plan. U/B Control is the one match up that needs some ironing out, they go small, and bring in 2 drops. We could do the same, I was thinking of Glory-bound Initiate or Adorned Pouncer (the latter plays well with Carcals). I need to test this before Sat.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
I guest its to mill toward the second casting of your Approach
Are we really able to mill out the opponent? You lose a land everytime and this is bad for your Approach of the Second Sun
Is there some risk of losing mass removal and your second copy of Approach in the graveyard?
Example, you have 8 lands in play, cast your first approach. Cool, that's 7 cards deep, maybe you don't have 2-3 turns , so you untap, draw, (now approach is 6 cards away). Let's say you draw cycling card, well, you pass, they do their thing, you cycle, (now you are 5 cards away), and the you mill 4, (now approach is 1 card away). You untap, draw approach and it's on to G2. That is why you play Ipnu Rivulet.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Vs Mono Black aggro I dropped the wrong land (thought it was Rivulet and instead played a Glacial Fortress), I played Desert's Hold but due to my quick reaction I just went full on blonde mode and missed ganing 3 life. I lost that match by 1 life...
The deck is good, I really like the desert package.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
There are several guys at my LGS that get really pissed when I don't play 'real' magic, instead just sit there and durdle until I win. It is fine for them to play all of the stupid, busted creatures/removal/walkers but sit there and 'do nothing' just pisses them off. But usually, these are the same guys that get pissed when they get beat by aggro, because it is stupid. Scarab God, please don't get me started. Entergy decks, who came up with that broken mechanic. Mirror match, you just got the cards and I couldn't draw anything.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
Nice, I haven't really looked at the desserts but they do look strong. I just get a little concerned about adding more come into play tapped lands. I run 2-3 Gideon main now. He just does so much work for me, his +1 saves you so much life and just stales the game (which is very good for us) and a lot of games I have won with the 4/4 beatdown plan.
I was looking at Adorned Pouncer the other day. I agree we need an early drop that can add pressure against the aggro matchup. My biggest issue with Regal Cats right now is every Red player knows we are bringing them in. Usually, they turn into a 5 mana 2 - 1/1 tokens before I pass the turn. Currently, I board in 2 Sunscourge Champion and 4 Cats. The combined pressure is normally enough. I also bring those in against any deck that I don't think I can get there with Approach, mostly Bx that will board in Duress and sometimes Lost Legacy.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
It seem to be able to reset your clock when you are dangerously low on life.
1x Desert of the Mindful
1x Desert of the True
2x Field of Ruin
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Ipnu Rivulet
4x Irrigated Farmland
3x Island
6x Plains
1x Shefet Dunes
Planeswalker (2)
2x Gideon of the Trials
Instant (16)
4x Censor
1x Essence Scatter
3x Glimmer of Genius
2x Hieroglyphic Illumination
1x Negate
2x Settle the Wreckage
3x Supreme Will
3x Approach of the Second Sun
3x Fumigate
Enchantment (10)
2x Aether Meltdown
4x Cast Out
2x Desert's Hold
2x Search for Azcanta
3x Authority of the Consuls
1x Gideon of the Trials
3x Negate
3x Regal Caracal
2x Sunscourge Champion
3x Torrential Gearhulk
My list is focused on beating Temur, and Control game 1. My Sb is a concession that aggro is still an arch type I need to beat after SB. It might be better to have the 4th Caracal, but Gideon is a house in the mirrors.
If Vehicles picks up the list will need to change. I'm not set up to deal with Toolcrafts into hearts....
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
So after a ton of different versions today, I ended up just adding 2 Abrade and 4 Harnessed Lightning. That is all the deck really needed and it made all the difference in the world. The early spot removal makes mono red fill like almost an even matchup Game 1. Just depends on who has the better hand. I have not gone up against any control decks yet but should be able the same as standard U/W. Still working on the sideboard and all of the numbers. Take a look and let me know what you guys think.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
Draw
1 Pull from Tomorrow
4 Glimmer of Genius
Counter
3 Supreme Will
4 Censor
2 Disallow
Removal
3 Fumigate
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Cast Out
2 Ixalan's Binding
2 Abrade
4 Harnessed Lightning
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Gideon of the Trials
Land
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Aether Hub
3 Inspiring Vantage
4 Spirebluff Canal
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Authority of the Consuls
3 Negate
2 Chandra's Defeat
2 Sweltering Suns
1 Gideon of the Trials
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Glorybringer
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
Not to be a hater but what's with the singleton Negate and Essence Scatter in the deck, they're not cards that you'd benefit from playing only 1 of. Also you should choose between running Aether Meltdown or Desert's Hold and not split each to 2 only, it'd be better if you just run 3-4 of one of them. If you are still running Glimmer of Genious and Aether Melt. you should just run Confiscation Coup either main deck or in the sideboard to make use of the energy you get.
Anyway, good luck at your tournament! Let the Sun shine a 2nd time!
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Nope, and also 4 casting cost spells in Approach are kind of iffy, since almost everyone is playing Cast Out which is far better than the other possible 4 drops, and having too many 4 drops can cause a problem after turn 6 when you have six lands out and want to be able to cast 2 or 3 spells but if you have too many 4 drops you'd be able to cast only 1 spell.
That's why my deck is filled with 2 casting cost spells (negate, essence scatter, thaumatic compass, search for azcanta) and 3 casting cost spells (champion of wits, sunscourge champion, disallow, supreme will, kefnet).
The only 4 casting cost spells are 3 Settle the Wreckage and 3 Cast Out, and because of that the deck runs very smoothly after hitting the 6th land.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Matches:
Vs Sultai Energy 2-1 Win
Vs 4c Energy 2-1 Win
Vs U/B Control 2-1 Win
Vs R/w Vehicles 1-2 Loss
vs Ramnunap Red 1-2 Loss (I miss played here, had a massive headache and punted, the deck would've gone 2-0)
Vs Temur 0-2 Variance hit and I didn't draw my 5th land in game 1 after cycling 5x. G2 dealt with the board, but he top decked 3 glorybringers and I couldn't find an approach.
The desert package really turned some heads today. Not only did it work, but it shored up the issues the deck has with early interaction. Xaltair, you are right about the split, and it was wrong to play Negate / Essence Scatter in the main. This is something I caught at round 4, when all I wanted to do was find early interaction. also, I don't mind the critique, we are here to get input and suggestions; so thanks for reassuring what i saw today.
Is the deck good? YES. 2-1 today vs Engery Variants and I won a control mirror because...well I don't lose control mirrors often. Plus, I banked on my control opponent screwing up Marjorly G3 and he did.
Write up:
Vs Sultai 2-1 Win
G1 Mull to 5, and despite this I was 1 turn away from stabilizing. G2, the early interaction works, I lock down his board, force him to overextended into a Fumigate backed by sweepers with negate back up. I had 2 approaches in hand and chained them. G3, he flooded a bit but I managed to make my censors count.
Vs 4c Energy 2-1 Win (great player. he top 8'd and is well known grinder in the scg circuit).
So, G1 I get blown out by a main deck Supreme Will from Temur. Gosh, that was a rough.
G2, I stabilize but he manages to top deck Glorybringer and a hydra. I had resolved an approach the turn before glorybringer came down. He played masterfully and got the read that I had gearhulk in hand (remember I had tapped out to cast approach, I have 9 lands in play w/ non Flipped Azcanta). He takes me down to 3 from 15! I'm super dead on board. I untap and azanta reveals a Cast Out. Well this doesn't get me out of this, so I cycle it away, and get a censor, not good enough either (I figure I'm just dead ), but I cycle it anyway. I draw the 2nd approach and hit the "opps I win button".
G3. He flooded a bit but I had complete control of the board and push approach to resolve with negate backup.
Vs U/B Control 2-1 Win
G1 is a slan DUNK with the desert package. You can't lose.
G2, yep this is bad, I get destroyed by glint sleeves (I predicted it)
G3 I start to get the feeling that I can leverage my own skill as a control player and decide to go back to the approach plan. My plan was simple: Get to 14 mana, force a bottle neck of mana, and win by dictating the pace of the game by playing the combo win aspect of the deck. It worked, but I banked on him misplaying; He did. He kept the same beat down package and to be honest, I was super dead. Like, I had better odds at winning big by playing a slot machine, however...I brought back in my removal and managed to deal with all his 2cmc dudes. I aggressively forced him into spending mana on counters and wound up clearing the board. The 1st approach resolves and eats a negate (fine, I didn't flinch). I draw into my other 2 approachs and then he casts duress[/card. My hand was double Approach of the Second Sun, Cast Out, supremem will and 2x lands. See the lands meant that I was going to hit 14 mana. He took the cast out... Okay....he then proceeds to cast The Scarab-God. He has effectively tapped 6 mana, with 4 up. I cast Supreme Will and he negates it. OKAY...everyone is watcing us, it's like T3 of extra turns and I untap, play my 14 land and cast the 2nd approach. He negates it, I then cast the 3rd approach and that's when he realizes that he doesn't have the 2nd counter. I win the game. By all accounts I was super dead, but I crafted a plan and won. Would this win against a better control player ? NO, but it worked.
Vs R/W Vehicles 1-2 Loss
G1, I did what the deck does. Removed his things, Gideon held down a heart for 5 turns and I removed all this threats.
G2, I got steam rolled
G3, Never found an approach, or threat. Flooded and lost.
Vs Ramunap Red (1-2) Loss (super duper headache)
G1, I win, by some miracle my desert package removal works,. Aether Meltdown was REALLY good.
G2, I had this..,I got tired man. I missed my Field of Ruin activation and failed to remove 2 Ruins...I lose to deserst shooting me in the face.
G3 Went deep but I couldn't find an approach or Caracal. Ran out of gas and died.
Vs Temur 0-2 Energy Variance hits
G1 Yep, I never draw my 5th land to fumigate on time and win up cycling 6 cards only to find my 5th land on T8. Oh and my fumigate got Supreme Will'd. Funny, that negate isn't looking bad anymore.
g2, Top deck war, I stablize, but he top decks a Glorybringer after bricking for a turn.
So there is the write up. If I don't misplay against Ram Red, I go 4-2 and get into top 8.
Cards I want to test:
Daring saboteur for the U/B match up. it's our version of Glintsleeve only it has evasion and loots. Adnored Pouncer may be a little too cute. Carcals have been under performing, but Gideon has been SUPER awesome. The desert package really works, going forward I want to cut Essence Scatter from the main and keep the Negate. +1 Aether Meltdown
This deck is still not solved, but it's really good. Turned some heads and with proper play execution, the deck rewards tight play.
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
AS for removal, I think that having 3 Settle the wreckage, 3 Fumigates and 3 Cast out are enough in the main deck. The counterspells do count as removal as well and they are meant to be cast for the early turns. In the midgame I also have Thaumatic Compass to flip and be able to shut down one creature each combat step which made a big difference in the games I played last week, the lands are not legendary so you can have 2 of them out at the same time.
Unfortunately, I won't have time to play any games in the next couple of weeks but the deck is built already and is just waiting for me. I don't believe in splashing another color at all, especially not for removal. As for alternate win conditions, I think that Gearhulk is too slow at 6 mana, so that is why I have 2 Kefnet main deck as well as the 3 Champion of wits and 3 Sunscourge champions which after being eternalized are quite capable of beating down on an opponent.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Below are a couple of the top lists from the last few days. If you were running one of those, on the play and on the draw, what would you do. Or if you have some other sideboard tech, what is it?
Thanks just trying to get a discussion going on how to beat one of the top decks.
2 Gideon of the Trials
Spells
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Censor
4 Supreme Will
2 Disallow
1 Essence Scatter
2 Settle the Wreckage
3 Fumigate
3 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Aether Meltdown
4 Cast Out
3 Search for Azcanta
Lands
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
5 Island
6 Plains
2 Field of Ruin
3 Authority of the Consuls
1 Gideon of the Trials
3 Negate
4 Regal Caracal
1 Settle the Wreckage
3 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Gideon of the Trials
Spells
4 Opt
4 Glimmer of Genius
4 Censor
4 Supreme Will
2 Disallow
2 Farm // Market
2 Settle the Wreckage
4 Fumigate
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Cast Out
Lands
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
7 Island
7 Plains
2 Field of Ruin
3 Authority of the Consuls
1 Jace's Defeat
3 Negate
1 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Regal Caracal
2 Sunscourge Champion
3 Torrential Gearhulk
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
Decklist was similar to Peter Villarrubia's from Nationals:
2 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Ipnu Rivulet
5 Island
6 Plains
Creature (1)
1 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Gideon of the Trials
Enchantment (6)
4 Cast Out
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Farm // Market
4 Censor
1 Disallow
1 Negate
4 Glimmer of Genius
1 Settle the Wreckage
3 Supreme Will
3 Opt
Sorcery (7)
3 Approach of the Second Sun
4 Fumigate
2 Solemnity
3 Negate
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Sunscourge Champion
1 Gideon's Intervention
3 Authority of the Consuls
2 Kefnet the Mindful
Match one was a relatively easy 2-0. My opponent admitted that it was the first time he was playing it, and it showed (for example, he used Field of Ruin to blow up Glacial Fortress in the early rounds when I had Search for Azcanta out rather than waiting until I flipped to Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin). In game 1, there was a nervy moment was when he resolved The Scarab God, but I managed to get rid of it by casting Fumigate and then Disallow on the triggered ability. Double approach for the win. Game 2 was the war of the counterspells. He cast Duress turn 1 and snagged Approach. I aggressively countered his attempts to resolve Hieroglyphic Illumination to keep him down on card advantage, which made things much easier for me.
Match two was a somewhat spicy cat aggro matchup (Pride Sovereign, Adorned Pouncer, Oketra's Monument etc.). Game 1, I had plenty of sweepers and won with double Approach. Game 2, opponent managed to get me from 23 to 1 in a single attack: embalmed Adorned Pouncer, two Sacred Cats, and a Vanquisher's Banner in play, and she cast Blossoming Defense and Appeal to make it a 10/10 double strike and swung with the team. I managed to Fumigate the next turn and limped on until I got double Approach. Cast Out was necessary in this matchup to shut down both Anointed Procession and Gideon's Intervention (which had named Approach).
Match 3 was the toughest of the three, and I would have lost if my opponent had respected Settle the Wreckage a bit more. I used it to hit 3 of his 5 creatures one attack (leaving Longtusk Cub and Whirler Virtuoso), and when he thought the path was clear, he used the Virtuoso to make 7 Thopters and attacked with the squad...right into my Torrential Gearhulk (bringing back Settle the Wreckage).
It was my first time taking this deck out for a spin, and overall, it felt really good. Some of my takeaways:
Some cards I want to try out (comments/thoughts welcome--I'm not on MTGO and don't have a ton of time to test different cards):
Finally, a question: there have been references to a "Desert Package" for this deck, but it's not clear what that means. Is it just a couple copies of Desert's Hold combined with replacing a plains and island with Desert of the Mindful and Desert of the True?
Thanks everyone...the information in this thread is really helpful for me. I'm surprised that this deck hasn't had better results at big tournaments, but I'm guessing it's because (1) it's less represented in the meta and (2) variance seems to hurt us more in the aggro matchup than it hurts aggro against us.
Some of my thoughts on cards for the sideboard are in my prior post. I like Solemnity and Kefnet the Mindful against Energy. With wrath backup, I think you can afford to take turn 3 off to cast either and either (1) hose the core of your opponent's deck or (2) throw up a big blocker that they don't really have an answer for. I could see bringing in Gideon of the Trials as well, although he gets Glory-brought pretty easily.
Energy is really tough though because their deck is so dense with threats. I was always happy to draw Fumigate and Settle the Wreckage.
The two cards you asked about that I have used:
Ixalan's Binding - I currently run a 3/1 or 4/1 split with Cast Out and considering moving that to a 3/2 split. So far I am never unhappy to see it unless I don't have any targets. The ability to keep your opponents from casting one of there biggest threats is so nice. It has done so much work for me in the last week or so where I have been testing it online and at FNM. Highly recommend.
Failure // Comply - It is a good card, and I really like it, just not sure what I want to cut to add it. Makes a really nice 1 of in your deck. The Remand effect does buy you a turn and sometimes that is all you need. Bouncing your Approach to cast it the next turn has actually come up a few times. Using Comply, secret tech here, you don't have to name a card until after it resolves. This is very important. I have cast it when I had 8 mana in a mirror match. They let it resolve because they had two different counters in their hand. I named Approach. That meant I could cast mine to see if it would resolve without them casting their's next turn while I was tapped out.
I am a fan of any card that is can easily eat 2 different counterspells by itself. The more you use it the more ways you will find to use it. But again, not sure where to make room for it.
I agree about the card to go in against Temur, but what do you cut? The deck never seems to run as smooth on game 2 or 3 as it did in game 1.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
4 Censor, 1 Pull from tomorrow/Glimmer, 2 Gideon, 1 Supreme Will
In 4 negate, 2 Gearhulks, 2 Gylph Keepers.
Censor is already being played around by Temur so they take sub-optimal lines. We want to turn into a more controlling deck. Frequently the game comes down to turn 6/7 having a settle/fumigate with a negate backup. I would say the macthup is even overall except we have two chances to win the match given there poor win percentage game 1 Glyph Keeper is a current flex slot I am trying out. Kefnet wasnt doing enough for me and is dealt with by other control decks. If glyph keeper doesnt work then tempted to try angel of sanctions