Starting with you, each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. Repeat this process until no one puts a card onto the battlefield.
===========================
I don't see a lot of people running this, and I didn't see a thread for it already (although search is down, so I might be wrong). I run it in a large-ish cube; I don't think it's 360 material, but I do think it's an interesting card to consider for larger cubes that want another cheaty-face effect.
The closest comparison is Show and Tell, which I think it's a little worse than. The differences are:
-Eureka lets you drop as much as you want, so you can empty a hand of fatties and other dudes, and not get all your hard work undone by a terminate.
-It costs more, and requires double color. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it's green, so you have ready access to fixing and acceleration. You also may have more access to big creatures in green.
-If you have fewer cards in hand, you can get blown out when your opponent gets to drop three things. On the other hand, if you can set yourself up with either card draw or discard, you can really ruin someone's day.
It seems like a risky card, and the type of deck it's good in doesn't really do well against other decks, since you have to jam it full of fat to get a good eureka going. I wouldn't cube with it or hypergenesis.
EDIT: LOL'd at the art!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to Cube but don't have one? Check the map if anyone is in your area and get cubing!
It's a really fun card. If you're playing a cube big enough that the top level of superfatties are included, as well as all the ways to cheat them out, this is one of the best ways.
- There are only a handful of non-creatures permanent that you'd want to cheat into play with this card. Karn Liberated, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, and...that's all that comes to mind.
- Given that you're going to be using this with creatures most of the time, I'd rather deal with the drawbacks on Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet than with the uncertainty of not knowing what my opponent is going to drop.
I don't think the payoff on this card is worth the set up that I'd require to be comfortable (either an opponent with an empty hand or an opponent I just Duressed / Gitaxian Probed), but if your cube is large and your playgroup likes high risk / high reward plays the card is definitely fun.
Eureka is actually pretty awesome, it's been absolutely amazing at 720 and it works very well with the rampy/Natural Order green deck. It's a beating.
I highly recommend for larger cubes, and I think if I was still at 360 I would play this just for giggles. It's probably not good enough, but it might be good enough for 450 even.
The thing is this effect isn't even that symmetrical, and we all know how symmetrical effects can be busted in half when your deck abuses them. Chances are your opponent doesn't have random green fatties that you picked up to go with this.
It seems like a risky card, and the type of deck it's good in doesn't really do well against other decks, since you have to jam it full of fat to get a good eureka going. I wouldn't cube with it or hypergenesis.
Yeah, you do want to have a good set of things to cheat out, but you can also run this in a deck with Survival of the Fittest or similar search engines, and get your targets that way.
- There are only a handful of non-creatures permanent that you'd want to cheat into play with this card. Karn Liberated, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, and...that's all that comes to mind.
Right, you're not going to play it with the primary goal of dropping a non-creature, but the fact that you can also drop a planeswalker or whatever makes it easier to break the symmetry. It also allows you to drop an answer to whatever your opponent plays. Playing Eureka with Faith's Fetters in hand is pretty awesome.
- Given that you're going to be using this with creatures most of the time, I'd rather deal with the drawbacks on Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet than with the uncertainty of not knowing what my opponent is going to drop.
I dunno, Elvish Piper is really, really fragile, and both of them are slower than Eureka. I don't think they're a great comparison.
I don't think the payoff on this card is worth the set up that I'd require to be comfortable (either an opponent with an empty hand or an opponent I just Duressed / Gitaxian Probed), but if your cube is large and your playgroup likes high risk / high reward plays the card is definitely fun.
Yeah, there definitely is some risk involved. We had a guy drop a full hand of stuff, because his opponent had just one card. Turned out that one card was Blightsteel Colossus which he had intended to tinker out but was stuck in his hand instead.
Eureka is actually pretty awesome, it's been absolutely amazing at 720 and it works very well with the rampy/Natural Order green deck. It's a beating.
I highly recommend for larger cubes, and I think if I was still at 360 I would play this just for giggles. It's probably not good enough, but it might be good enough for 450 even.
Well, I don't know if I'd play it that small, but it can certainly lead to some awesome plays. I like that it's a build-around-me card, and is the sort of card that you pick up and start thinking of ways to break it.
The thing is this effect isn't even that symmetrical, and we all know how symmetrical effects can be busted in half when your deck abuses them. Chances are your opponent doesn't have random green fatties that you picked up to go with this.
Yeah, I think it's often reasonably easy to break the symmetry, either with card draw, targeted discard, tutoring, or even just playing out a bunch of stuff after a wrath.
Is it just me or does this card feel very close to Natural Order? Those are different effects of course, but don't they want to be in the same green "cheat faties into play" deck?
Is it just me or does this card feel very close to Natural Order? Those are different effects of course, but don't they want to be in the same green "cheat faties into play" deck?
Yeah, I can't see me drafting a Natural Order deck and not playing Eureka, or vice versa.
We recently added this and in its first draft it was a hit. It is a fun card, very powerfull in the right deck. It feels very unfair and fair at the same time somehow.
You can combine this with ramp, Sneak Attack or Reanimator to make this crazy plan a bit more consistant.
Nope mentioned how AWESOME the art is, it even references one of my favorite people of all time.
I'm interested in putting in the super fatty package but this, Show and Tell, and Sneak Attack are quite the expensive cards. All three have some of the best art in Magic too!
Nope mentioned how AWESOME the art is, it even references one of my favorite people of all time.
I'm interested in putting in the super fatty package but this, Show and Tell, and Sneak Attack are quite the expensive cards. All three have some of the best art in Magic too!
Check the second post of the thread
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to Cube but don't have one? Check the map if anyone is in your area and get cubing!
I liked Eureka well enough when we tested it, but its effect is a bit erratic. You need to have two large permanents in your hand when you resolve Eureka, and the sum of your permanents need to be greater than the permanents your opponents put into play. It's a very fun card, but I think it requires just a few too many clunky MD cards to really abuse it, whereas Tinker, Natural Order, Tooth and Nail, Show and Tell, and even reanimation don't require a critical mass of those cards to be in hand.
We've been playing Eureka for a couple of months now. I've only been able to include it in a couple of decks, but so far it's much clunkier and hard to build around than it seems on paper.
The first time I even resolved it, my hand was Karn Liberated and Jace 2.0. I dropped a turn three Karn. My opponent followed up with Faith's Fetters, targeting my Karn. I then dropped Jace 2.0. My opponent followed up with Grave Titan. I lost that game, probably because of my Eureka.
Just last night I had Eureka in a deck with Prime Time, Hornet Queen and a couple other fatties that I can't remember now. I was also playing ramp so as to make Eureka a secondary option. The one time I drew Eureka, I had no fatties in hand and my only permanent was an Oracle of Mul Daya. That deck also had Show and Tell. The one time I thought I was going to have a sweet Show and Tell on turn three with a Hornet Queen, my opponent played Elesh Norn.
The variance in these type of symmetrical cards seems to be too risky to me. It either result in a blowout of you ending of with an Eldrazi and a Hornet Queen while your opponent plays a Fire Imp and Soltari Champion (or something similar). It can also fall the other way, as it has for me in my examples above. I can absolutely see a deck where Eureka and Show and Tell are the nuts. I picture it being BG with some ramp, some reanimation, 4-5 fatties, and some hand destruction. So far, though, that deck has not come together and Eureka has been unimpressive (for me anyway, it's been sweet for my opponents').
That is some terrible terrible luck you have there, and should not reflect how the card plays out on average. It's like running into a Diabolic Edict every time you Tinker an Inkwell Leviathan out and saying how much that Tinker sucks. The average permanent quality in a deck playing Eureka should be at least twice as high as pretty much every other deck at the table.
I don't disagree with that and, to be honest, I'm the only person so far that's actually gotten the chance to cast Eureka. My two bad experiences aren't enough to make me want to cut it, but it is enough to make me want to keep an eye on how it plays for other people in my group. I want the card to be a complete blowout more times than not. I expect there to be some some variance where it will not end well for its caster, but so far that variance is at 100% for me.
As a side note, this is also why my group and I ultimately decided to cut Timetwister. Letting our opponent draw seven as well often ended up just being worse than how good it was for us to be drawing seven. It's possible that my group just doesn't like symmetrical effects.
As a side note, this is also why my group and I ultimately decided to cut Timetwister. Letting our opponent draw seven as well often ended up just being worse than how good it was for us to be drawing seven. It's possible that my group just doesn't like symmetrical effects.
If you're casting Timetwister when it's symmetrical, that explains why you don't like it.
If you're casting Timetwister when it's symmetrical, that explains why you don't like it.
That was the problem. It just rarely come up at a time when it was more asymmetrical. Ideally my midrange aggro deck rocking Timetwister will want to refill around turn four or five and my opponent still has five or more cards in hand. That makes it asymmetrical. In reality, what happened more often than not was that when Timetwister actually came up, both players were low on cards and it just ended up being a refill for both.
So far, this is how both Eureka and Show and Tell are playing out. I'm a huge fan of blowout plays. This is why I run power, Tinker, and early reanimation enablers. I want to see a turn two Ulamog happen. It's why I was easily convinced to run cards like Eureka and Show and Tell. It's just proving to be tough to turn the effect into something that really only benefits the caster.
In decks with low curves or that are designed to power their hands out ASAP, Timetwister should be generating CA for you in almost every matchup. It's a bummer that your anecdotal experiences don't line up with how the card should statistically play out in practice.
It's just proving to be tough to turn the effect into something that really only benefits the caster.
It shouldn't be. The majority of the decks at the table have 7+cc bombs in them? We only usually have 1 or 2 decks out of 6 that have Eureka deck sized threats in them, and your deck is one of them. Its hard to believe that you could statistically be that unlucky.
Well, right now I know that it's just bad luck and not necessarily a bad card, which is why I'm not saying that I'm cutting it yet. I just wondered if anyone else had this hard of a time getting it to work. This same thing happened to us (me in particular) in one of the earlier iterations of my cube that still ran Iwamori of the Open Fist. If I cast him five times during his time in my cube, then my opponent had the Akroma three of those times. Guaranteed.
Timetwister is a very reliable source of CA just as Wheel of Fortune is. The colour is less aggressive on the whole but a card that good makes the grade, as it's one of the many blue cards you can reliably splash for without bending over backwards to make the mana work.
Eureka looks like a good card for ramp decks if you can ensure you have at least two bombs in hand. It's a bit restrictive for small cubes, I think, but it sure looks fun.
I thought Eureka was worse than both Show and Tell and Sneak Attack but after extensive play testing I think it's just better than both and even an easier card to draft than Tinker in an unpowered list like mine.
Maybe I'm just remembering the best times but I'm really impressed.
I have only been cubing with this for a short while, but it is another great tool for the fatty decks. But I play show and tell, tooth and nail, quicksilver amulet, natural order, sneak attack and piper.
The fit in the same dedicated decks but they have unique homes as well. Eureka fits in some of the G/B reanimator decks better than some of the others. Natural order requires early greaen dudes and your top end to be green. Eureka does a great job dropping those fatties that might have been stuck in your hand otherwise.
And I toyed around with the fires archetype, and there is nothing better for breaking the symmetry than dropping a Xenogod, Fires of Yavimaya, Hammer or other haste effect on the same turn as your Worldspire Wurm.
Oracle text:
Starting with you, each player may put a permanent card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. Repeat this process until no one puts a card onto the battlefield.
===========================
I don't see a lot of people running this, and I didn't see a thread for it already (although search is down, so I might be wrong). I run it in a large-ish cube; I don't think it's 360 material, but I do think it's an interesting card to consider for larger cubes that want another cheaty-face effect.
The closest comparison is Show and Tell, which I think it's a little worse than. The differences are:
-Eureka lets you drop as much as you want, so you can empty a hand of fatties and other dudes, and not get all your hard work undone by a terminate.
-You can respond to things your opponent plays, with things like Faith's Fetters and Faceless Butcher, or even Sower of temptation, since you each play one at a time. Your opponent can do the same.
-You can drop Planeswalkers.
-It costs more, and requires double color. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that it's green, so you have ready access to fixing and acceleration. You also may have more access to big creatures in green.
-If you have fewer cards in hand, you can get blown out when your opponent gets to drop three things. On the other hand, if you can set yourself up with either card draw or discard, you can really ruin someone's day.
Thoughts?
EDIT: LOL'd at the art!
The Great Cube Map!
My Powered Cube
Draft it here!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- There are only a handful of non-creatures permanent that you'd want to cheat into play with this card. Karn Liberated, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, and...that's all that comes to mind.
- Given that you're going to be using this with creatures most of the time, I'd rather deal with the drawbacks on Elvish Piper and Quicksilver Amulet than with the uncertainty of not knowing what my opponent is going to drop.
I don't think the payoff on this card is worth the set up that I'd require to be comfortable (either an opponent with an empty hand or an opponent I just Duressed / Gitaxian Probed), but if your cube is large and your playgroup likes high risk / high reward plays the card is definitely fun.
I highly recommend for larger cubes, and I think if I was still at 360 I would play this just for giggles. It's probably not good enough, but it might be good enough for 450 even.
The thing is this effect isn't even that symmetrical, and we all know how symmetrical effects can be busted in half when your deck abuses them. Chances are your opponent doesn't have random green fatties that you picked up to go with this.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
Yeah, you do want to have a good set of things to cheat out, but you can also run this in a deck with Survival of the Fittest or similar search engines, and get your targets that way.
Right, you're not going to play it with the primary goal of dropping a non-creature, but the fact that you can also drop a planeswalker or whatever makes it easier to break the symmetry. It also allows you to drop an answer to whatever your opponent plays. Playing Eureka with Faith's Fetters in hand is pretty awesome.
I dunno, Elvish Piper is really, really fragile, and both of them are slower than Eureka. I don't think they're a great comparison.
Yeah, there definitely is some risk involved. We had a guy drop a full hand of stuff, because his opponent had just one card. Turned out that one card was Blightsteel Colossus which he had intended to tinker out but was stuck in his hand instead.
Well, I don't know if I'd play it that small, but it can certainly lead to some awesome plays. I like that it's a build-around-me card, and is the sort of card that you pick up and start thinking of ways to break it.
Yeah, I think it's often reasonably easy to break the symmetry, either with card draw, targeted discard, tutoring, or even just playing out a bunch of stuff after a wrath.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Yeah, I can't see me drafting a Natural Order deck and not playing Eureka, or vice versa.
Blimpy's Aggro-Focused Cube (powered 360)
I'm always open to suggestions on how to improve my cube. Take a look and ask a question, or give a constructive critique whenever you can.
You can combine this with ramp, Sneak Attack or Reanimator to make this crazy plan a bit more consistant.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm interested in putting in the super fatty package but this, Show and Tell, and Sneak Attack are quite the expensive cards. All three have some of the best art in Magic too!
Check the second post of the thread
The Great Cube Map!
My Powered Cube
Draft it here!
Joy of Cubing Podcast
My 600 Card Unpowered Cube
My Combo Cube
The first time I even resolved it, my hand was Karn Liberated and Jace 2.0. I dropped a turn three Karn. My opponent followed up with Faith's Fetters, targeting my Karn. I then dropped Jace 2.0. My opponent followed up with Grave Titan. I lost that game, probably because of my Eureka.
Just last night I had Eureka in a deck with Prime Time, Hornet Queen and a couple other fatties that I can't remember now. I was also playing ramp so as to make Eureka a secondary option. The one time I drew Eureka, I had no fatties in hand and my only permanent was an Oracle of Mul Daya. That deck also had Show and Tell. The one time I thought I was going to have a sweet Show and Tell on turn three with a Hornet Queen, my opponent played Elesh Norn.
The variance in these type of symmetrical cards seems to be too risky to me. It either result in a blowout of you ending of with an Eldrazi and a Hornet Queen while your opponent plays a Fire Imp and Soltari Champion (or something similar). It can also fall the other way, as it has for me in my examples above. I can absolutely see a deck where Eureka and Show and Tell are the nuts. I picture it being BG with some ramp, some reanimation, 4-5 fatties, and some hand destruction. So far, though, that deck has not come together and Eureka has been unimpressive (for me anyway, it's been sweet for my opponents').
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
As a side note, this is also why my group and I ultimately decided to cut Timetwister. Letting our opponent draw seven as well often ended up just being worse than how good it was for us to be drawing seven. It's possible that my group just doesn't like symmetrical effects.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
If you're casting Timetwister when it's symmetrical, that explains why you don't like it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That was the problem. It just rarely come up at a time when it was more asymmetrical. Ideally my midrange aggro deck rocking Timetwister will want to refill around turn four or five and my opponent still has five or more cards in hand. That makes it asymmetrical. In reality, what happened more often than not was that when Timetwister actually came up, both players were low on cards and it just ended up being a refill for both.
So far, this is how both Eureka and Show and Tell are playing out. I'm a huge fan of blowout plays. This is why I run power, Tinker, and early reanimation enablers. I want to see a turn two Ulamog happen. It's why I was easily convinced to run cards like Eureka and Show and Tell. It's just proving to be tough to turn the effect into something that really only benefits the caster.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
It shouldn't be. The majority of the decks at the table have 7+cc bombs in them? We only usually have 1 or 2 decks out of 6 that have Eureka deck sized threats in them, and your deck is one of them. Its hard to believe that you could statistically be that unlucky.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This made me laugh pretty hard.
My 450 Cube
Eureka looks like a good card for ramp decks if you can ensure you have at least two bombs in hand. It's a bit restrictive for small cubes, I think, but it sure looks fun.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Maybe I'm just remembering the best times but I'm really impressed.
The fit in the same dedicated decks but they have unique homes as well. Eureka fits in some of the G/B reanimator decks better than some of the others. Natural order requires early greaen dudes and your top end to be green. Eureka does a great job dropping those fatties that might have been stuck in your hand otherwise.
And I toyed around with the fires archetype, and there is nothing better for breaking the symmetry than dropping a Xenogod, Fires of Yavimaya, Hammer or other haste effect on the same turn as your Worldspire Wurm.