We recently added the eureka/show and tell package, and it has been powerful and fun for us so far (we do not run emrakul.) The cards that support the archetype (wurmcoil, battlesphere, kozileck, ulamog, primus, sundering titan, karn, hellkite overlord, hornet queen etc) all have decent overlap with super ramp and/or reanimator decks, so it doesn't even feel like you have to add that many cards to make it a viable archetype. I think we added show and tell, eureka, the two eldrazi (weren't in before because of the nonbo with reanimator decks) and overlord (which we were adding as a reanimate target), and the deck has one the draft at least once and been in the finals another time, all over like 4 or 5 drafts. It's a fun, powerful package that I really enjoy in our 450 cube. I'm not sure how it would fair in super tight 360 lists.
I like Eureka a lot. I've found it to be worse when drafting on cockatrice because everyone on there just wants to put big stupid things into play or play mono-red, and a lot of the cubes on there seem to be saturated with the top-end fat, but in a cube that runs the big green package + 2 eldrazi is where it's at its peak IMO.
Card is good here. But it is pricey. Need to find a real one now that I am convinced of its fun/power levels.
As asmallcat pointed out, at 450 we were already running Natural Order and several big green fatties. Adding in a 5 card package for super ramp and sneak-an'-show was easily worth it for the variety of decks that have come out of the package. 5 cards is a lot, except it is not really.
If you are not already running a ramp/Order type deck, it would take a lot more cards to add the fat-cheat.dec in. But in that case I would strongly recommend adding an Order/ramp deck to your cube.
Played that pile yesterday night and the deck was a pure bomb. Using NO, Eureka, Tinker and S&T to cheat fatties on the board. So many tutor and digging cards in. Was really nice to pilot as a 15-lands combo deck. Just wanted to share it out somewhere. Don't know if it is at the right place.
Other cheat cards in there are staples but does still Eureka nice for other player's groups? Definitely still is in mine.
So with the unveiling of the newest Emrakul and more things being pushed to be far more towards hard casting as many things as possible how do people feel about Eureka right now? I've only ever seen it cast a few times in my cube and haven't really got a good opinion of it yet.
I came across a Eureka today and decided to add it to my cube. I run a 360 powered cube but no Eldrazi, mostly because they don't play nice with reanimator and with a cube that small it seems one needs to have as many cards as possible fitting into as many archetypes as possible. I do run Sneak Attack and Show and Tell, but I don't run Channel. Other than the lack of Eldrazi, all of my fatties are the usual suspects. For those of you with experience with Eureka, or for those who have a strong opinion, is that enough or do I need to also start running Eldrazi?
Thanks
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You don't NEED eldrazi, but it certainly helps. At 360 as long as you have enough super fatties it will be good enough. You shouldn't need the eldrazi to meet whatever the threshold is at 360.
I would probably want at least 1 of the 2 good post-ROE Eldrazi (either Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger or Emrakul, the Promised End) in there anyways, and it would help to give Eureka at least 1 more target. But it's probably not necessary. It's just fine putting Elesh Norn, Griselbrand, Woodfall Primus and Sundering Titan-esque monsters into play.
I came across a Eureka today and decided to add it to my cube. I run a 360 powered cube but no Eldrazi, mostly because they don't play nice with reanimator and with a cube that small it seems one needs to have as many cards as possible fitting into as many archetypes as possible. I do run Sneak Attack and Show and Tell, but I don't run Channel. Other than the lack of Eldrazi, all of my fatties are the usual suspects. For those of you with experience with Eureka, or for those who have a strong opinion, is that enough or do I need to also start running Eldrazi?
Thanks
Nice! I really want to pick one up for myself pretty soon.
Let us know how it works out
Eureka just won 3 drafts in a row in my cube. I don't think that's ever happened before and I'm both happy and horrified by that achievement. I figured that it'd be good to re-open up the discussion on Eureka and how a lot of the new super fatties have made it much better at making the risk more asymmetrical in your favor than ever. Eureka often gets a bad rap for blowing up in people's faces, but I think it's because a lot of people just don't know how to hedge the asymmetrical risk much more in your favor from both the player's / cube designer's perspective. IMO, these changes have had the most impact to it lately:
Atraxa, Grand Unifier
- Is just the best super fattie of them all and really helps set up Eureka or makes it very hard for your opponent to come back after one.
Astral Dragon
- Helps counter potential Oblivion Ring / Control Magic effects that can ruin your Eureka, not to mention just adds a lot of stuff on the board.
Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw / Ashen Rider
- While Ashen Rider isn't exactly a new printing, this package has been key to making sure your opponent doesn't one-up your own Eureka or outraces you with initiative or something. Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw being very castable is also a huge difference. Removal + evasion Originally I liked to play Terastodon to help with messy Eureka situations, but I've been able to cut that with the most recent super fattie printings.
Eureka just won 3 drafts in a row in my cube. I don't think that's ever happened before and I'm both happy and horrified by that achievement. I figured that it'd be good to re-open up the discussion on Eureka and how a lot of the new super fatties have made it much better at making the risk more asymmetrical in your favor than ever. Eureka often gets a bad rap for blowing up in people's faces, but I think it's because a lot of people just don't know how to hedge the asymmetrical risk much more in your favor from both the player's / cube designer's perspective. IMO, these changes have had the most impact to it lately:
Atraxa, Grand Unifier
- Is just the best super fattie of them all and really helps set up Eureka or makes it very hard for your opponent to come back after one.
Astral Dragon
- Helps counter potential Oblivion Ring / Control Magic effects that can ruin your Eureka, not to mention just adds a lot of stuff on the board.
Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw / Ashen Rider
- While Ashen Rider isn't exactly a new printing, this package has been key to making sure your opponent doesn't one-up your own Eureka or outraces you with initiative or something. Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw being very castable is also a huge difference. Removal + evasion Originally I liked to play Terastodon to help with messy Eureka situations, but I've been able to cut that with the most recent super fattie printings.
I agree with the points made above. Portal to phyrexia is also a recent addition that works well with show/tell eureka (in conjunction with other threats).
as a rule of thumb, you want your cheated out permanants to immediately impact the board, not ones that require you to attack to get value or have no ETB ability.
I agree with the points made above. Portal to phyrexia is also a recent addition that works well with show/tell eureka (in conjunction with other threats).
(EDITED - I'm writing a much more thought out response.)
We had a discussion about Eureka and Show and Tell 2 years back and there was a consensus that Eureka/ Show and Tell are stronger in paper compared to MTGO primarily because MTGO does not pair you with your own pod and thus its likely you'll be pair against a cheat deck, where Eureka is a disaster.
However, my heuristic with Show and Tell/ Eureka is that cheating in an Inferno Titan or even Emarkul are not Plan A for me, unless push comes to shove.
I've had great success with Eureka where I was able to sandbag an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon after my opponent puts in 3 threats and Ugin was able to clear the board. Nowadays with cards like Portal to Phyrexia, Archon of Cruelty, I only expect Eureka to improve.
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It was probably the strongest deck in my old 360.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
As asmallcat pointed out, at 450 we were already running Natural Order and several big green fatties. Adding in a 5 card package for super ramp and sneak-an'-show was easily worth it for the variety of decks that have come out of the package. 5 cards is a lot, except it is not really.
If you are not already running a ramp/Order type deck, it would take a lot more cards to add the fat-cheat.dec in. But in that case I would strongly recommend adding an Order/ramp deck to your cube.
1 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Merfolk Looter
Fatties:
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Spells :
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Preordain
1 Imperial Seal
1 Reanimate
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Scroll Rack
1 Simic Signet
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Dig Through Time
1 Show and Tell
1 Tinker
1 Eureka
1 Natural Order
Lands :
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Mana Confluence
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Underground Sea
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Mox Jet
5 Forest
4 Island
Played that pile yesterday night and the deck was a pure bomb. Using NO, Eureka, Tinker and S&T to cheat fatties on the board. So many tutor and digging cards in. Was really nice to pilot as a 15-lands combo deck. Just wanted to share it out somewhere. Don't know if it is at the right place.
Other cheat cards in there are staples but does still Eureka nice for other player's groups? Definitely still is in mine.
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My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Nice! I really want to pick one up for myself pretty soon.
Let us know how it works out
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
Atraxa, Grand Unifier
- Is just the best super fattie of them all and really helps set up Eureka or makes it very hard for your opponent to come back after one.
Astral Dragon
- Helps counter potential Oblivion Ring / Control Magic effects that can ruin your Eureka, not to mention just adds a lot of stuff on the board.
Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw / Ashen Rider
- While Ashen Rider isn't exactly a new printing, this package has been key to making sure your opponent doesn't one-up your own Eureka or outraces you with initiative or something. Chaos Defiler / Alpha Deathclaw being very castable is also a huge difference. Removal + evasion Originally I liked to play Terastodon to help with messy Eureka situations, but I've been able to cut that with the most recent super fattie printings.
Also, other supplemental cheaty face enablers like Monster Manual / Incarnation Technique really help the consistency of these decks.
Here's the deck lists + draft logs below in the spoiler tag
Jund + Blue with midrange plan
Draft picks - https://magic.flooey.org/draft/show?id=RjkHBLtVwTtKQ2jYz9cdaZR-ApQ&deck=ahRzfmV1cGhvcmljLWRpb2RlLTYxNnIRCxIEZGVjaxiAgIDV99mcCQw
Jund + Mishra's Wokrshop
Draft picks - https://magic.flooey.org/draft/show?id=vVKLwN89WgXz4fSZf_I29u1Dq1I&deck=ahRzfmV1cGhvcmljLWRpb2RlLTYxNnIRCxIEZGVjaxiAgIDNv-aeCQw
Jund Reanimator Hybrid
Draft picks - https://magic.flooey.org/draft/show?id=NEeGy_6kPomkL4N0FpIZWg8x8m0&deck=ahRzfmV1cGhvcmljLWRpb2RlLTYxNnIRCxIEZGVjaxiAgIDNgJ-TCww
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I remember Ugin, the Spirit Dragon has just been a house with Eureka.
as a rule of thumb, you want your cheated out permanants to immediately impact the board, not ones that require you to attack to get value or have no ETB ability.
Ugin > most Eldrazi in eureka for example
Last Updated 02/07/24
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(EDITED - I'm writing a much more thought out response.)
We had a discussion about Eureka and Show and Tell 2 years back and there was a consensus that Eureka/ Show and Tell are stronger in paper compared to MTGO primarily because MTGO does not pair you with your own pod and thus its likely you'll be pair against a cheat deck, where Eureka is a disaster.
However, my heuristic with Show and Tell/ Eureka is that cheating in an Inferno Titan or even Emarkul are not Plan A for me, unless push comes to shove.
I've had great success with Eureka where I was able to sandbag an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon after my opponent puts in 3 threats and Ugin was able to clear the board. Nowadays with cards like Portal to Phyrexia, Archon of Cruelty, I only expect Eureka to improve.
I would be more comfortable using it to cheat out something like Portal to Phyrexia / Ashen Rider / Archon of Cruelty / Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite OR Thousand-Year Storm / Griselbrand and try to win that turn.
This is roughly how I would prefer to use Eureka/ Show and Tell these days
Narrow Combo with Ugin/ Portal to Phyrexia >> Backup Cheat Enabler > Fast mana for Combo.