No. Only that if you're unwilling to play games that have an element of luck to them, Chess is your best option.
Caylus is better, but that's besides the point.
The point is not one about the presence or absence of luck, but the complete absence of engaging gameplay that this particular type of luck often creates. There are plenty of games with random elements where said random elements don't stop you from participating in the game.
I think we are getting a little far afield here. I think Curse has a high enough power level to justify doing nothing some of the time. I have had a lot of games where Vedalken Shackles where there was nothing to steal, or just one too few islands, or whatever. Sometimes Shackles just does nothing. But it is powerful enough for that not to matter. I feel the same about Curse. Card is good the way it is.
Test it out. See what you all think. If you don't think it does enough, cut it. *shrug
I just don't view it as a problem. Sometimes you get unlucky and lose. It's not the greatest experience when it happens, but it's part of the game. Just like Poker.
I just don't view it as a problem. Sometimes you get unlucky and lose. It's not the greatest experience when it happens, but it's part of the game. Just like Poker.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that getting unlucky isn't a problem. It's that sometimes you can get unlucky in a particularly irritating way, and it is a flaw of the game. I'd much rather lose to a topdecked Bonfire than lose to mana screw. It's not fun for either player when someone gets mana screwed. You might as well play against a brick wall.
It's as though a rule were introduced to Poker that said, "Before hands are dealt, everyone rolls a die. If you roll a 6, you still have to pay blinds, but you don't get dealt any cards."
As for Predation, its usefulness varies more than the average card, but I would still expect it to be great on a pretty regular basis.
For each time you get unlucky and lose a game that you felt you should/could have won (for whatever reason), the person on the other side gets lucky and wins a game that they should/could have lost. For each person who is sad about it, there is someone happy about it (just considering winning and losing as positive/negative, with no grey area). Equal and opposite reactions.
It works.
Re: mana screw, there is a lot of times when it is a direct result of incorrect deckbuilding and/or poor shuffling. Not always, of course, but it is a significant number.
It's that sometimes you can get unlucky in a particularly irritating way, and it is a flaw of the game.
That's just it though, I don't consider it a flaw of the game. I like the resource system in Magic, flood/screw potential included.
Quote from Diakonov »
It's as though a rule were introduced to Poker that said, "Before hands are dealt, everyone rolls a die. If you roll a 6, you still have to pay blinds, but you don't get dealt any cards."
Better than getting good cards and losing a big hand to a player that beats you through nothing but luck. Every time my aces get cracked I wish I'd have been dealt no cards instead (unless I'm playing a cash table at a casino running an aces cracked bonus). It's not a flaw, it's part of the game.
For each time you get unlucky and lose a game that you felt you should/could have won (for whatever reason), the person on the other side gets lucky and wins a game that they should/could have lost. For each person who is sad about it, there is someone happy about it (just considering winning and losing as positive/negative, with no grey area). Equal and opposite reactions.
It works.
Re: mana screw, there is a lot of times when it is a direct result of incorrect deckbuilding and/or poor shuffling. Not always, of course, but it is a significant number.
-AA
Or not knowing when to or not to Mulligan. Its an unappreciated art.
Like pretty much every disagreement here, this one is going to end up "agree to disagree". So we should probably just jump to that point now and move on. Either that, or create a new thread since we are ruining this one which is supposed to be about Curse of Predation.
I'm still running it and I still like it. The splashable cost saves it. Costing 2G makes it a lot better than Gaea's Anthem. Aggro and token decks are rarely base-green, so green cards in those decks better not cost double green. Curse of Predation delivers and can turn even small dudes into scary attackers.
I'm still running it and I still like it. The splashable cost saves it. Costing 2G makes it a lot better than Gaea's Anthem. Aggro and token decks are rarely base-green, so green cards in those decks better not cost double green. Curse of Predation delivers and can turn even small dudes into scary attackers.
I have had the same experience. It's nowhere near the top green cards, but it delivers in the right decks and there are several green cards I would cut before it.
It's good but I think the competition keeps it out of smaller lists. If I went up to 540, I'd consider it. Also, it's best if you are supporting aggro in green and a lot of cubists don't do that.
I'm still running it and I still like it. The splashable cost saves it. Costing 2G makes it a lot better than Gaea's Anthem. Aggro and token decks are rarely base-green, so green cards in those decks better not cost double green. Curse of Predation delivers and can turn even small dudes into scary attackers.
Yep, this. Green is only really a splash in aggro, but this is one of the cards that encourages that in the first place. It's notably better than most of White's anthem effects, doing a reasonable discount Ajani G impression, less the vigilance.
Still running it in my 540. We find it often getting played when in the draft pool and doing good work. Can't speak for lists smaller than mine, but I don't see cutting it anytime soon.
I've cut it for a while due to space issues (405 cube) but decided to put it back in several months back. It really is great for G aggro and is one of a few cards that draws my players into the archetype. I plan to keep it in as long as G aggro is a thing in my cube.
This is how I feel too. I could re-add it at any time, and I still like the card. It wound up getting cut just for competition, and the decks that usually want Curse are loaded at options in the 3cc slot. That, and the fact that I like the spell more than most other folks in my cube group do.
Caylus is better, but that's besides the point.
The point is not one about the presence or absence of luck, but the complete absence of engaging gameplay that this particular type of luck often creates. There are plenty of games with random elements where said random elements don't stop you from participating in the game.
Psshh, I recomend Go. =)
I think we are getting a little far afield here. I think Curse has a high enough power level to justify doing nothing some of the time. I have had a lot of games where Vedalken Shackles where there was nothing to steal, or just one too few islands, or whatever. Sometimes Shackles just does nothing. But it is powerful enough for that not to matter. I feel the same about Curse. Card is good the way it is.
Test it out. See what you all think. If you don't think it does enough, cut it. *shrug
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I don't think anyone is disagreeing that getting unlucky isn't a problem. It's that sometimes you can get unlucky in a particularly irritating way, and it is a flaw of the game. I'd much rather lose to a topdecked Bonfire than lose to mana screw. It's not fun for either player when someone gets mana screwed. You might as well play against a brick wall.
It's as though a rule were introduced to Poker that said, "Before hands are dealt, everyone rolls a die. If you roll a 6, you still have to pay blinds, but you don't get dealt any cards."
As for Predation, its usefulness varies more than the average card, but I would still expect it to be great on a pretty regular basis.
It works.
Re: mana screw, there is a lot of times when it is a direct result of incorrect deckbuilding and/or poor shuffling. Not always, of course, but it is a significant number.
-AA
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That's just it though, I don't consider it a flaw of the game. I like the resource system in Magic, flood/screw potential included.
Better than getting good cards and losing a big hand to a player that beats you through nothing but luck. Every time my aces get cracked I wish I'd have been dealt no cards instead (unless I'm playing a cash table at a casino running an aces cracked bonus). It's not a flaw, it's part of the game.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Or not knowing when to or not to Mulligan. Its an unappreciated art.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
That too!
-AA
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Agreed. Run Curse, it's a sweet card.
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Yep, this. Green is only really a splash in aggro, but this is one of the cards that encourages that in the first place. It's notably better than most of White's anthem effects, doing a reasonable discount Ajani G impression, less the vigilance.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
This is how I feel too. I could re-add it at any time, and I still like the card. It wound up getting cut just for competition, and the decks that usually want Curse are loaded at options in the 3cc slot. That, and the fact that I like the spell more than most other folks in my cube group do.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!