MTG Salvation

Quote from calibretto »

I love the ability on Sadistic Hypnotist, but man, 5 mana for a 2/2 with no evasion is miserable.

Sadly, this.

There are times where the effect on that card makes it seem absurdly powerful. And there are other times where that card is just miserably bad. It's pretty swingy in that regard.

Since the thread so far has been a general consensus of "this slot kinda sucks so run whatever you'd like" and a lot of people giving more qualitative suggestions, I'd like to add this observation.

I'm a fan of Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief simply because with the printing of Archangel Avacyn, it feels good to have cool powered-up legendary versions of Serra Angel and Sengir Vampire back in the Cube.

Also, don't forget about From Under the Floorboards ...a new printing that functions like a black 5-drop and is probably better than most of the existing options.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Also, don't forget about From Under the Floorboards ...a new printing that functions like a black 5-drop and is probably better than most of the existing options.

Priest of the Blood Rite or From Under the Floorboards ?

Priest was just garbage for us. When I was banking on the opponent not having removal Bloodgift was better. I am currently trying the grey merchant again, because he is mildly fun with blink and reanimator, adds another zombie, and isn't constantly last picked in my group. From Under the Floorboards has been decent in a couple of matches but isn't for everyone. I wish we could steal some of white's extra 5 drops.

Yeah. Priest was bad. I thought he'd be broken, but his drawback is real and 5 mana is so much more than 3 mana (Blade Splicer). Classic example of looking at two similar cards and drawing a completely incorrect conclusion.

The most powerful 5 is probably Drana. It completely takes over games if not removed.

I think Gray Merchant of Asphodel is really good, though he's not the dream beater other colors get at the 5cc.

Ya, if you support the mono-black Devotion strategy, Gray Merchant has one of the higher ceilings of any of black's 5-drops.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Ya, if you support the mono-black Devotion strategy, Gray Merchant has one of the higher ceilings of any of black's 5-drops.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Ya, if you support the mono-black Devotion strategy, Gray Merchant has one of the higher ceilings of any of black's 5-drops.

We don't support mono-black but a couple of my players like heavy black decks that focus on attrition and dragging the game out. It will frequently hit for about 6 late game which is pretty satisfying.

I really don't understand how people have been having bad results with Priest, it has been nutty for us. Totally stupid card in recurring nightmare decks, it's blinkable, it's great with Whip, it's recurrable with Reveillark, tutorable with Recruiter, insane under mimic vat, synergistic with Xathrid Necro, and a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting.

Might I also add that Sidisi has been fantastic as well. We are planning on replacing Wretched Confluence with From Under the Floorboards for a while (but Confluence has never actually been bad when cast!).

Priest has a million synergies in the cube. But when it's not being looped by Nightmare or copied by Vat, it can be a monster liability. When the Demon token gets bounced, you've literally just played the worst imaginable 5cc investment. It has a really incredible ceiling, and a really intolerable floor.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Priest has a million synergies in the cube. But when it's not being looped by Nightmare or copied by Vat, it can be a monster liability. When the Demon token gets bounced, you've literally just played the worst imaginable 5cc investment. It has a really incredible ceiling, and a really intolerable floor.

Unfortunately, this.

The deck that priest goes in should have workarounds to getting the token bounced; sac'ing it to any number of effects, blinking it, bouncing it yourself, or just straight up attacking them with it every turn (they either take the 2 damage per turn with you or they let it die). The only truly savage punish is a restraining effect like Kiora's +1.

Quote from ELPsteel »

The deck that priest goes in should have workarounds to getting the token bounced; sac'ing it to any number of effects, blinking it, bouncing it yourself, or just straight up attacking them with it every turn (they either take the 2 damage per turn with you or they let it die). The only truly savage punish is a restraining effect like Kiora's +1.

I think it just comes down to these three factors:

1. As wtwlf said, high ceiling really low floor with priest. This is going to lead to a lot of different first impressions of this card. And that drives a lot of the posts here.

2. Limited time in cubes. This is a problem across the board. Gone are the days where people have 6+ months experience playing with a card. New cards are generally getting a handful of play tests at most and being very quickly discarded if they are not clearing exceedingly high expectation bars. It's just where most powered cubes are these days.

3. No room for fringe cards. Tied in a bit with #3 above. I know people think black 5's are sort of ho hum (and they are), but there are also about 10 of them you could be running. And the truth is they are all serviceable. So which do you run? I cut priest not really because it's bad but because I happen to like several other fringe options better.

Clique leads to more interesting decks and board states. Gary supports a deck I really like. Doomwake is both removal and enchantress support. Shadowborn is satisfying to build around. Shriekmaw is... well, shriekmaw. Even I won't cut that. And If I had room for more, Sidisi would probably be next in line since sac outlets support a major theme in my cube, and tutor effects are always welcome. Priest is just a pile of stats that can be broken with mechanics that don't need help being unfair (blink, vat, etc).

Small little combo that my group has found with
Gray Merchant of Asphodel is that he is a zombie and combos with Relentless Dead, it is a die trigger but who cares more drain. Was just great in a board stall and the recursion won the game.

Quote from ELPsteel »

The deck that priest goes in should have workarounds to getting the token bounced ...

Of course it should. But when you don't, you can really get punished.

If you are a traditional cube, I think it's totally fine to have ZERO 5 drop black creatures.

Control and midrange are the two archetypes that are hurt the most by not having a 5 drop. So ensuring that the midrange/control colors that pairs with black have plenty of 5 drops is a fine way to solve this problem.

Also, if you have no 5 drops, it's important to make sure you are not light on black 4's/6's. Kalitas + Massacare wurm + Grave Titan + Profane command is a reasonable finisher suite for the midrange decks in mid-sized cubes.

If you are desperate to support 5 black CMC, you may want to consider supporting HEAVY black creature midrange. I think a package of Urborg + phyrexian obliterator + Grey merchant + Relentless dead + Sidisi could be a thing.

Grey merchant impressed me with my initial testing, but it required playing a deck that was sub-optimal, just to make him good. Think he needs a better supporting mid-range cast than most cubes currently have. Relentless dead is a card that is on the way to make me re-consider supporting this archetype... And printing Kalitas was a HUGE push in the right direction.

Has anyone tested vengeful pharaoh. With incresing amounts of discard support he seems like he might be worth trying?

As Black 5-drops are so dubious I use it to include a nostalgic card or something a bit off-beat (not ideal if your cube is powered).

Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder

Shimian Night Stalker

The WretchedDread Wight

Guiltfeeder

I think I am the outlier, I run more than most by the sounds of it:
Bloodgift Demon - Pretty solid filler; beats for 5 in the air, draws cards and in a pinch he can kill your opponent. Not being boltable is nice.
Custodi Lich - Has been working out pretty well. He is a 3-for-1 assuming your opponent has a creature and monarch adds an interesting dimension.
Priest of the Blood Rite - My first cut (surprised he lasted so long), no one really drafts or plays him.
Shriekmaw - Top dog in the 5 slot by a good margin
Sidisi, Undead Vizier - Probably a pet card but me and my group are happy with her. Pretty hard to kill in combat and decent on defense.

Quote from Mirage_Jester »

Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder

That's a pretty spicy inclusion, how has he been? I'm a fan of piling the counters onto smokestack and Endrek helps that plan pretty well. Goes nuts with clamp (won me many a commander game) and decent with goblin bombardment, but I don't know if I have enough sac outlets to make full use of him.

I play Endrek Sahr. He's good, and can get pretty out of hand.