Geez, that's quite an endorsement. I'm going to jam him in for some testing ASAP.
It's taken a while to get to this point, but that's why you have to test/play the cards. (Another endorsement for how amazing XMage is here.)
I think for raw power that Restoration Angel and Hero of Bladehold are objectively better, but Palace Jailer giving you monarch and keeping that creature removed even if he dies is really really really good. Being a 2/2 is also relevant in good ways for Recruiter/Reveillark/Alesha reasons.
Geez, that's quite an endorsement. I'm going to jam him in for some testing ASAP.
Palace Jailer way over performed my expectations. I tested it with great reservation... Decided to do it only because of how good the monarch effect was on regal behemoth and custodi litch.... thought palace jailer was the worst of the 3. After playing them all a bunch, I now think it is the best of the 3.
I've been testing it for about 4-6 months now, I've had dozens of good experiences. Your opponent taking back the monarch has been much harder than I expected... and if they can't, exiling a creature and getting an untargetable painless phyrexian arena is incredibly powerful.
Against an (almost) creatureless control deck with recall , timewalk and snapcaster.. I black lotused out a turn 1 palace jailer, and he debated scooping before the game got to turn 2 heh.
Geez, that's quite an endorsement. I'm going to jam him in for some testing ASAP.
It's taken a while to get to this point, but that's why you have to test/play the cards. (Another endorsement for how amazing XMage is here.)
I think for raw power that Restoration Angel and Hero of Bladehold are objectively better, but Palace Jailer giving you monarch and keeping that creature removed even if he dies is really really really good. Being a 2/2 is also relevant in good ways for Recruiter/Reveillark/Alesha reasons.
I also think Palace jailer is almost Restoration angel/Hero tier level of power. A smidgen below, but definitely no other white creature 4 drop competes with it for 3rd place.
It's probably my favorite recruiter target... It's a card that is often excellent, occasionally busted but occasionally bad. Having it as an option for the board states where it's at it's best, is super powerful.
Geez, that's quite an endorsement. I'm going to jam him in for some testing ASAP.
It's taken a while to get to this point, but that's why you have to test/play the cards. (Another endorsement for how amazing XMage is here.)
I think for raw power that Restoration Angel and Hero of Bladehold are objectively better, but Palace Jailer giving you monarch and keeping that creature removed even if he dies is really really really good. Being a 2/2 is also relevant in good ways for Recruiter/Reveillark/Alesha reasons.
I also think Palace jailer is almost Restoration angel/Hero tier level of power. A smidgen below, but definitely no other white creature 4 drop competes with it for 3rd place.
It's probably my favorite recruiter target... It's a card that is often excellent, occasionally busted but occasionally bad. Having it as an option for the board states where it's at it's best, is super powerful.
Yeah Palace Jail is awesome but the other two have more power/surprise blow out potential. It's tough to fully say Jailer is better, but there are spots where the other two would be embarrassing and he's drawn you 3+ cards and kept a creature exiled. There are also spots where the other two are def better as well, but the point is more so that Jailer is really really strong.
This makes me wonder what else I've missed over the past year. My last update was Hour of Devastation and I took my cube apart before I even had a chance to playtest those changes. Salmo, maybe we could PM or talk on discord about the past year in cub? There is a lot to catch up on haha.
This makes me wonder what else I've missed over the past year. My last update was Hour of Devastation and I took my cube apart before I even had a chance to playtest those changes. Salmo, maybe we could PM or talk on discord about the past year in cub? There is a lot to catch up on haha.
Palace Jailer has been probably one of the most slept on cards in recent history. Reading through this thread from the beginning you can see it took a year for people to see its power. If it wasn't for steveman running + playing it on xmage, I'd prob not be running it.
Feel free to PM or ask anyone in that chat about potential sleepers or whatever! People are always willing to give advice and input there, plus a lot of cube discussion happens in general.
I was around when this card came out but missed it's rise to sleeper status. Does anyone still run Palace Jailer? Looks like it could be a good 4th white 4 drop creature in my 540 and seeing it perform in Legacy has been very interesting.
Yes, it's very good. Sometimes the feel-bad moments of awkward board states where playing it out is bad can happen, but for the most part it tends to work out well.
I like Jailer well enough, but it's the white 4 that's currently the closest to the chopping block, and I'd be willing to cut it if we got a new bomb 4cc creature in white. But until then, I'll enjoy the monarch subgame.
Just the other day I Palace Jailer'd a threat, then I cast Restoration Angel and blinked the Jailer, taking care of another threat, and finally Flickerwisp on Jailer allowed me to exile 3 things in total, all the while drawing an additional card each turn; I was very impressed.
I remember a game where I exiled an opposing Wall of Omens, eventually my opponent got the wall back yet still the cards I drew were enough to win the game with.
Decided to come back for another round of "how did we sleep so hard on Palace Jailer" with some stats from the individual card data we have in the 3-0 archives:
- Palace Jailer is currently the #4 represented white card showing up in 37 3-0 decks. It's only surpassed by Swords to Plowshares (46), Elspeth, Knight-Errant (45), and Council's Judgment (38).
- It's also tied for both the #2 most represented 4-cmc creature and 4th for most represented creature overall. At 4-cmc, Sower of Temptation is currently #1 with 43 copies. Palace Jailer and Venser, Shaper Savant both have 37 copies each. Currently the most represented creature (and non-colorless card in a mostly unpowered metagame) overall is Vendilion Clique with 49 copies.
- Palace Jailer at 37 is way ahead of its 4-cmc white creature contemporaries numbers wise by a considerable margin with Hero of Bladehold at 24 and Restoration Angel at 22.
Going back to read my initial comments on this card was quite painful
This is definitely one of those cards that has intangible benefits that aren't clearly apparent upon initial inspection. I never considered how important the "until the opponent becomes the monarch" text was and implicitly thought of the card as a Fiend Hunter variant. Being able to chump block with Palace Jailer itself in order to keep the monarch train rolling is such a key benefit to the card that is easy to miss when theorycrafting.
This card has been really strong in my group, but Steve_Man, those results are absurd. PJ has clearly been a top tier creature for you guys.
This card has been really strong in my group, but Steve_Man, those results are absurd. PJ has clearly been a top tier creature for you guys.
I consider Palace Jailer to be the best white creature. Pretty sure I've heard somebody in the Xmage Cube Discord say it was the best white card, but I wouldn't go THAT far.
Wanting to Necro this thread because this card has been insane in my Maxpower 360. I'm st the point where I think it is only behind Swords/PtE in white. Yes, I think it is that good.
So many times the person who casts this never gives up the Monarch. And even if the Jailer is dealt with the opponent still needs to do combat damage. The last game I played it turn 3 with a Mox and drew like 8 cards. Just bonkers.
Would love to hear how it has performed for others.
White plume adventurer and seasoned dungeoneer are better, but yeah, palace jailer is a bomb.
Top 5-6 white card
There was a big paradigm shift around 2019 that made me realize how good palace jailer is. I used to see white Agro as an all-in 12+ 1-drop creature based Agro anthem deck. I now play/support white Agro as an Agro-midrange deck with a lot of disruption.
When the monarch is drawing you disruption instead of Savannah lions it is MUCH better.
initially I was evaluating it under the old school white Agro lense.
Even under the old paradigm I was underrating it though.
Still a top 3 white creature alongside White Plume Adventurer / Seasoned Dungeoneer. While those are more aggressive / better win conditions, Palace Jailer is arguably the better midrange card that's more ripe for abuse due to its ability to just exile all your opponent's creatures.
It's taken a while to get to this point, but that's why you have to test/play the cards. (Another endorsement for how amazing XMage is here.)
I think for raw power that Restoration Angel and Hero of Bladehold are objectively better, but Palace Jailer giving you monarch and keeping that creature removed even if he dies is really really really good. Being a 2/2 is also relevant in good ways for Recruiter/Reveillark/Alesha reasons.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Palace Jailer way over performed my expectations. I tested it with great reservation... Decided to do it only because of how good the monarch effect was on regal behemoth and custodi litch.... thought palace jailer was the worst of the 3. After playing them all a bunch, I now think it is the best of the 3.
I've been testing it for about 4-6 months now, I've had dozens of good experiences. Your opponent taking back the monarch has been much harder than I expected... and if they can't, exiling a creature and getting an untargetable painless phyrexian arena is incredibly powerful.
Against an (almost) creatureless control deck with recall , timewalk and snapcaster.. I black lotused out a turn 1 palace jailer, and he debated scooping before the game got to turn 2 heh.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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I also think Palace jailer is almost Restoration angel/Hero tier level of power. A smidgen below, but definitely no other white creature 4 drop competes with it for 3rd place.
It's probably my favorite recruiter target... It's a card that is often excellent, occasionally busted but occasionally bad. Having it as an option for the board states where it's at it's best, is super powerful.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Yeah Palace Jail is awesome but the other two have more power/surprise blow out potential. It's tough to fully say Jailer is better, but there are spots where the other two would be embarrassing and he's drawn you 3+ cards and kept a creature exiled. There are also spots where the other two are def better as well, but the point is more so that Jailer is really really strong.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Palace Jailer has been probably one of the most slept on cards in recent history. Reading through this thread from the beginning you can see it took a year for people to see its power. If it wasn't for steveman running + playing it on xmage, I'd prob not be running it.
Feel free to PM or ask anyone in that chat about potential sleepers or whatever! People are always willing to give advice and input there, plus a lot of cube discussion happens in general.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Yes, it's very good. Sometimes the feel-bad moments of awkward board states where playing it out is bad can happen, but for the most part it tends to work out well.
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- Palace Jailer is currently the #4 represented white card showing up in 37 3-0 decks. It's only surpassed by Swords to Plowshares (46), Elspeth, Knight-Errant (45), and Council's Judgment (38).
- It's also tied for both the #2 most represented 4-cmc creature and 4th for most represented creature overall. At 4-cmc, Sower of Temptation is currently #1 with 43 copies. Palace Jailer and Venser, Shaper Savant both have 37 copies each. Currently the most represented creature (and non-colorless card in a mostly unpowered metagame) overall is Vendilion Clique with 49 copies.
- Palace Jailer at 37 is way ahead of its 4-cmc white creature contemporaries numbers wise by a considerable margin with Hero of Bladehold at 24 and Restoration Angel at 22.
Going back to read my initial comments on this card was quite painful
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
This card has been really strong in my group, but Steve_Man, those results are absurd. PJ has clearly been a top tier creature for you guys.
I consider Palace Jailer to be the best white creature. Pretty sure I've heard somebody in the Xmage Cube Discord say it was the best white card, but I wouldn't go THAT far.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
So many times the person who casts this never gives up the Monarch. And even if the Jailer is dealt with the opponent still needs to do combat damage. The last game I played it turn 3 with a Mox and drew like 8 cards. Just bonkers.
Would love to hear how it has performed for others.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
Top 5-6 white card
There was a big paradigm shift around 2019 that made me realize how good palace jailer is. I used to see white Agro as an all-in 12+ 1-drop creature based Agro anthem deck. I now play/support white Agro as an Agro-midrange deck with a lot of disruption.
When the monarch is drawing you disruption instead of Savannah lions it is MUCH better.
initially I was evaluating it under the old school white Agro lense.
Even under the old paradigm I was underrating it though.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra