I searched for another thread for this card but could not find one for the cube forum.
What are people's thoughts on this life from the loam I am looking to move my cube size from 360 to 450 and I am looking at adding this.
Interactions would be with fetches, wasteland, crucible, filling graveyards, delve cards.
Do you think it deserves a spot?
I think if you have a strong dredge theme, it would be a strong addition, but if you're not really dedicating to dredge it's going to be underwhelming.
Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but Life never really did anything for me and I really wanted to like the card. I usually just died before I could get the engine up.
I like LftL a lot. It has lots of little interaction that add up to it being a powerful card. There are the obvious uses, like Wasteland, Fetches, Strip Mine and (almost the best one) Horizon Canopy. It gets back dead manlands, which is often a huge PITA for the opponent. It's a nice addition to the RG Wildfire deck and on the rare occasion that Elf-ageddon comes together. It's nice with Balance because you don't care if you need to discard it to your Balance. You can dredge to get back the lands you lose to the Balance. It's in absolutely no danger of being cut from my powered 450.
I was pretty sure there was an [SCD] thread for this somewhere, but if not...
Quote from allred123 »
Do you think it deserves a spot?
Absolutely. Life from the Loam is a great card with a lot of sweet interactions. In addition to all the obvious value, it's still just a strong card with discard outlets and sacrifice effects as a way to provide a steady stream of fuel. It's one of my favorite cards to try and abuse in the cube, and I'm always finding sweet new ways to take advantage of it.
You may want to add links, pictures and information about the card in the OP if this is going to serve as the [SCD] thread for Loam moving forward.
Before I cubed, I was mostly a Modern player and played a sweet Loam Pox deck. The idea was to cast Smallpox on T2 into an opponent's first creature. The manabases in Modern are so greedy that setting them back one land buys you plenty of time. You could discard Loam, dredge it back, hopefully hitting a Bloodghast or two, Lingering Souls, Conflagrate, etc. That deck was so grindy. One sweet game during Eldrazi Winter, I won against a T3 Reality Smasher pretty handily. I had dredged my whole deck away by the end, but I had also Ghost Quartered all my opponent's basics and my recurred Ghost Quarters were functioning as Strip Mines. Loam made that deck go.
To me, Loam is one of maybe a dozen or two dozen perfect cube cards, where there is an obvious use for it, but also tons of incidental uses that require some real thinking and creativity. I want my cube to have some number of those things versus the cards that are more straightforwardly powerful. Stuff like saccing lands to a suspended Gargadon, casting Balance, and getting your stuff back with Loam is what cube is all about to me. Or Entombing your Snapcaster Mage, casting Renanimate on it, and flashing back a Demonic Tutor. Those sorts of plays are part of why cube is so sweet.
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This is more of a message for future reader than the OP (since this an offical SCD). LftL decreases sharply in power in large cube sizes, when the chances to see specific synergy cards are much lower. It is the type of card that could very well have a critical mass in a few years and be worth it, but for now at 720 it is too hard to get work from it.
Life from the Loam is a fabulous card for cube, but it's one that you may have to see in action before you can really understand. It's also not necessarily a priority at every size. For me, it's all about having potential synergy, and this card has leagues of it, much of which hasn't even been explored yet in my cube.
Now that we finally have Ramunap Excavator (yeah, I'll probably always call it Magus of the Crucible), loam becomes much more of an archetype, which makes certain cards more playable. Desolation and Impending Disaster are favorites of mine that come closer to playability in smaller cubes. Edit: Ooh, and Army Ants!
It's been over a year since my last post on this card and I still haven't figured out how to make this card super hot. Can any of you cube gurus give me some tips? What do the decks look like? I understand that it works with strip mine and wildfire, but I never really found life from the loam necessary in the wildfire decks. I really want to like this card because it's one of my favorites, but I haven't been able to really make it shine. I would be super thankful if anyone could provide a successful list as well!
I've been running LftL for years but at 540 I'm feeling that it may not be potent enough. It's good when it all comes together and you can string some fetchlands for value, but that doesn't happen all that often and when it does it's definitely not the most powerful thing going on in any given game. I love me some LftL but it is definitely moving closer to my chopping block.
I really enjoy LftL for its small synergies. It's not a card you're going to break wide open in cube, but it can load up your graveyard for other cards while also letting you get back your fetches, your manlands, your Wasteland variants... it's a solid addition to many shells without being overwhelming.
I love Loam. I use it as a card to grind out incremental advantages in all kinds of decks. Not going anywhere, probably ever. I want more cards like this if anything.
Try to find non-land interactions with it too. Discard effects and looting effects become a lot stronger when the card disadvantage drawback is mitigated. Cards like Firestorm are super spicy. Don't underestimate the value it has with manlands too; it turns them into recursive threats against slower control decks. In addition to the obvious and immediate value it has with all the fetchlands effects and all the strip/waste effects you can muster. I like to find about 5 things I can do with Loam. A strip/waste effect, a fetch or two, a manland, and maybe a discard outlet or two as well. Or even things like midrange 'Geddons or Wildfires. When the nature of your effects are based on card volume (like a Dack activation, for example) getting back 3 cards for 1 card is well worth it. Especially since "drawing" the Loam from your 'yard doesn't cost you any cards from hand other than your draw for the turn. It's not going to be a card that helps you pressure aggro, but in grindy midrange mirrors or control matchups, it can give you the long-term advantage needed to edge out wins. It's nice for green midrange decks to have access to cards that can help win prolonged games against control, and Loam is a solid tool for that toolbox. Remember that it can fuel itself; the first time you resolve it you may only have 1 target in the 'yard for it. But when that land goes back in (plus Loam's dredge cards) it can start to "get there" all on its own. While simultaneously filling your 'yard full of other stuff you might want in there if you're playing a graveyard-centric deck like a recursion shell or a reanimator package. It also works from the 'yard as a way to purge the top of your library post Brainstorm/Jace/Library/Top/Rack activations too. Or just to fuel Dredge costs. Oh, and don't forget to pair it with Smokestack and Braids.
Every time I draft this card I find more and more ways to use it.
I think the problem is that the theorizing exists and has existed since the card has been around forever, but the card still doesn't see consistent success. In theory vs in practice, essentially.
YMMV, obv, but it's been a *long* time since I've seen a Loam deck do work. We record a lot of 3-0s through xmage but LftL never gets there, part of that is lists but it's hard to ignore the other parts.
I agree with Salmo. Loam has been in and out of my cube multiple times over the years and has never been as impressive here as it seems to be for wtwlf and his group. I think Loam has a constructed stigma around it and drafters (at least in my group) tend to let that influence what they think Loam can do for them or the type of decks they would play it in. Meaning they aren't paying attention to its subtle uses like the ones wtwlf described above. People are just looking for ways to get card card advantage off their basics and the specific deck doesn't come together very often (even after I added in Titania and Gitrog for more support). I think the ideal deck for Loam would be a Golgari or Jund mix with lots of ways to make your graveyard into a resource, but it can be also be good in a Simic deck with looting or other discard effects. Loam has a lot of potential, but it's a complicated card to evaluate in a format like cube and it often falls short because of that.
I think the problem is that the theorizing exists and has existed since the card has been around forever, but the card still doesn't see consistent success. In theory vs in practice, essentially.
YMMV, obv, but it's been a *long* time since I've seen a Loam deck do work. We record a lot of 3-0s through xmage but LftL never gets there, part of that is lists but it's hard to ignore the other parts.
Salmo, you stated my exact thoughts on this card very clearly. I'm reluctant to cut it from my cube because in theory there are so many cool things you can be doing and I enjoy having fun build around cards in my format. It just never seems to get there. I literally think it's been a couple years since I've MD'd this card.
I agree with Salmo. Loam has been in and out of my cube multiple times over the years and has never been as impressive here as it seems to be for wtwlf and his group. I think Loam has a constructed stigma around it and drafters (at least in my group) tend to let that influence what they think Loam can do for them or the type of decks they would play it in. Meaning they aren't paying attention to its subtle uses like the ones wtwlf described above. People are just looking for ways to get card card advantage off their basics and the specific deck doesn't come together very often (even after I added in Titania and Gitrog for more support). I think the ideal deck for Loam would be a Golgari or Jund mix with lots of ways to make your graveyard into a resource, but it can be also be good in a Simic deck with looting or other discard effects. Loam has a lot of potential, but it's a complicated card to evaluate in a format like cube and it often falls short because of that.
I do think there is a complexity factor that can hinder Loam's success. That said, I know my cube inside and out and Jund GY decks are my wheelhouse and I STILL rarely find a way to maindeck this card. I just don't know if I'd miss it if I cut it.
I would have to deal with a legit mutiny if I ever tried to cut Loam. But luckily I also have enormous personal success with it, so that won't ever happen.
What are people's thoughts on this life from the loam I am looking to move my cube size from 360 to 450 and I am looking at adding this.
Interactions would be with fetches, wasteland, crucible, filling graveyards, delve cards.
Do you think it deserves a spot?
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Absolutely. Life from the Loam is a great card with a lot of sweet interactions. In addition to all the obvious value, it's still just a strong card with discard outlets and sacrifice effects as a way to provide a steady stream of fuel. It's one of my favorite cards to try and abuse in the cube, and I'm always finding sweet new ways to take advantage of it.
You may want to add links, pictures and information about the card in the OP if this is going to serve as the [SCD] thread for Loam moving forward.
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To me, Loam is one of maybe a dozen or two dozen perfect cube cards, where there is an obvious use for it, but also tons of incidental uses that require some real thinking and creativity. I want my cube to have some number of those things versus the cards that are more straightforwardly powerful. Stuff like saccing lands to a suspended Gargadon, casting Balance, and getting your stuff back with Loam is what cube is all about to me. Or Entombing your Snapcaster Mage, casting Renanimate on it, and flashing back a Demonic Tutor. Those sorts of plays are part of why cube is so sweet.
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Now that we finally have Ramunap Excavator (yeah, I'll probably always call it Magus of the Crucible), loam becomes much more of an archetype, which makes certain cards more playable. Desolation and Impending Disaster are favorites of mine that come closer to playability in smaller cubes. Edit: Ooh, and Army Ants!
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Every time I draft this card I find more and more ways to use it.
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YMMV, obv, but it's been a *long* time since I've seen a Loam deck do work. We record a lot of 3-0s through xmage but LftL never gets there, part of that is lists but it's hard to ignore the other parts.
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Salmo, you stated my exact thoughts on this card very clearly. I'm reluctant to cut it from my cube because in theory there are so many cool things you can be doing and I enjoy having fun build around cards in my format. It just never seems to get there. I literally think it's been a couple years since I've MD'd this card.
I do think there is a complexity factor that can hinder Loam's success. That said, I know my cube inside and out and Jund GY decks are my wheelhouse and I STILL rarely find a way to maindeck this card. I just don't know if I'd miss it if I cut it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
450 Unpowered Cube Cobra
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