You do get the base number of loyalty counters. You can't do the Zealous Conscripts thing and steal an ultimate, but OTOH if you target a creature you get an untapped token.
It's a shame it's not just a blue card since the gold Section is so tight at 360 (Only 3 slots for 360 per guild). I'd gladly keep this in the consideration pile when it rolls around. I'd be willing to test this over Reflector Mage or Brago, but not over Supreme Verdict or Geist
Man this seems rad. Probably one of the best control magic/persuade variants. Sucks that it's azorius, but it'll be hard not including this since it's pretty much a built in 2 for 1 machine at minimum.
This obviously isn't quite as bustedly ridiculous as a confluence, but it's a really pushed card with an effect we don't often see, and I love cards that straight up steal permanents.
I don't know, some of the possibilities seem disgusting. There are so many things that removing and making your own of is completely game changing and absolutely insane. The more I think about what this card can do, the stronger it seems.
Yeah, gonna echo the consensus on this one. The tough part is what to cut. Dragonlord Ojutai, Venser the Sojourner, and Sphinx's Revelation are the vulnerable cards in my Azorius list... and I love all of them. Probably gonna be Venser. Why couldn't this have shown up in something like Izzet or Orzhov where there was more space? Ugh.
Ooh, really like this. A discounted Confiscate that nets ETB value effects or resets depleted PWs seems pretty good, and it's a nice colour pair to be a sorcery. I don't know if I have room but tempted to take it for a spin.
I think I like it more than verdict. I feel like Verdict is too often a harder to cast wrath since you need to be in the blue mirror. That's still a good card, but the first version of this effect might be better than the third wrath. Though in a larger cube Verdict might be better/needed more since you want the redundancy. But if I'm running a small-to-midsize cube, I'd probably be more inclined to run this if I had to choose.
Verdict being uncounterable is nice. Verdict being reserved for U/W decks, and thus often available at a later pick than the mono-white sweepers, is probably nicer.
This and Verdict are tools that solve mostly opposite problems. Which one would be better, if you had to choose just one, is probably a matter of cube composition. What this does have going for it is that the effect feels fairly unique.
In a format full of recursion, ETB effects, and ways to deal with noncreature permanents, this seems way better than your average Control Magic. And sometimes you'll get those sweet moments where you exile your own Serendib Efreet...
Venser, the Sojourner might be the correct cut, but he's also a cornerstone of the blink archetype. I feel like White and Black have my wrath needs covered fairly well and so I'm leaning more towards cutting Supreme Verdict for this. This card is stupid good. It's Anguished Unmaking in Azorious minus the life loss plus making your own copy of whatever you exile for 2 more? Take a great card, add blue, and you get a stupidly amazing card!
This card is very good. I mean, it's effectively a Confiscate effect that can't be undone by a disenchant that also gives you ETB triggers too. It's just a flat-out HUGE tempo swing, and permanent 2-for-1 removal with a tremendous board impact. Probably a must play in 1v1 cube play, honestly.
We play more UW tempo than control, actually. At 450 I only play 3 guild slots, but this card makes me want to go up to 4 so I can run it with Verdict, Geist, and Mage. But then I'd be adding in forgettable cards in Gruul, Golgari, Simic, and Boros, plus I'd be sort of forced to re-add Ral Zarek when I cut him for planeswalker density issues.
This card seems really good, but I'm just not sure I have room without a big restructuring that would add in other cards I just don't want to play.
Though . . . currently I run 6 cards in a rainbow section, and they're all 3 colors right now. I can steal a spot from artifacts and add this in there, I suppose? Seems inelegant but it's the easiest way to add it. The effect is just so brutal.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Venser, the Sojourner might be the correct cut, but he's also a cornerstone of the blink archetype. I feel like White and Black have my wrath needs covered fairly well and so I'm leaning more towards cutting Supreme Verdict for this. This card is stupid good. It's Anguished Unmaking in Azorious minus the life loss plus making your own copy of whatever you exile for 2 more? Take a great card, add blue, and you get a stupidly amazing card!
This is how I'm feeling... when I see Venser Sojourner I will often take it with a high pick and then build around it. Sometimes it doesn't work out and I don't even get to play him, or he winds up being lackluster, but sometimes he's totally dominant.
Yet both Dragonlord Ojutai and Sphinx's Revelation are also high picks for the decks that want them, and can be used to devastating effect. I don't particularly want to lose any of them.
We play more UW tempo than control, actually. At 450 I only play 3 guild slots, but this card makes me want to go up to 4 so I can run it with Verdict, Geist, and Mage. But then I'd be adding in forgettable cards in Gruul, Golgari, Simic, and Boros, plus I'd be sort of forced to re-add Ral Zarek when I cut him for planeswalker density issues.
This card seems really good, but I'm just not sure I have room without a big restructuring that would add in other cards I just don't want to play.
Though . . . currently I run 6 cards in a rainbow section, and they're all 3 colors right now. I can steal a spot from artifacts and add this in there, I suppose? Seems inelegant but it's the easiest way to add it. The effect is just so brutal.
There are no more for-sure slams in Boros and Gruul but Deathrite Shaman and Sagu Mauler seem like easy inclusions for Golgari and Simic. Deathrite Shaman is sooo good!
This is a slam dunk for me. I'd probably place it in #1 spot for the guild.
I'm less certain about what to cut for it. It will be either Spell Queller, Detention Sphere and Sphinx's Revelation. I'm leaning towards the Sphere since we have many of these effects available in white nowadays. And this card is also removal like Sphere. What would you cut?
I really like it, but, my cube has to support 3 way games about half the time so I have been pruning the cards that get pretty bad in that environment (Oath of Druids for example is on its way out) and this looks like it will suffer the same problem. For its cost, giving my opponent a copy as well is a pretty real downside.
If it is cheap I'm still pretty interested in testing it though, maybe the power and uniqueness will out shine the downside for my particular situation.
Interesting Vindicate / Confiscate effect that your opponent can't get back. Thoughts?
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Would the PWer come in with loyalty counters?
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You'll get any ETB effects for the permanent and will also get the base loyalty of a planeswalker copy created this way.
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-Geist of Saint Traft
-Reflector Mage
-Brago, King Eternal
-Supreme Verdict
-Sphinx's Revelation
I think I'm going to be cutting Brago for this, but it's definitely making the cut somehow.
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I don't know, some of the possibilities seem disgusting. There are so many things that removing and making your own of is completely game changing and absolutely insane. The more I think about what this card can do, the stronger it seems.
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- Geist of Saint Traft
- Reflector Mage
- Supreme Verdict
- Detention Sphere
If anything, I'd cut Sphere to test this since it's the most redundant effect and this is just a bigger effect (sans token / clone scenarios).
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I'd put this at #4 at the highest after Geist / Reflector Mage / Verdict (order can be argued but that's my top 3 for Azorius).
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This and Verdict are tools that solve mostly opposite problems. Which one would be better, if you had to choose just one, is probably a matter of cube composition. What this does have going for it is that the effect feels fairly unique.
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This card seems really good, but I'm just not sure I have room without a big restructuring that would add in other cards I just don't want to play.
Though . . . currently I run 6 cards in a rainbow section, and they're all 3 colors right now. I can steal a spot from artifacts and add this in there, I suppose? Seems inelegant but it's the easiest way to add it. The effect is just so brutal.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
This is how I'm feeling... when I see Venser Sojourner I will often take it with a high pick and then build around it. Sometimes it doesn't work out and I don't even get to play him, or he winds up being lackluster, but sometimes he's totally dominant.
Yet both Dragonlord Ojutai and Sphinx's Revelation are also high picks for the decks that want them, and can be used to devastating effect. I don't particularly want to lose any of them.
I'm less certain about what to cut for it. It will be either Spell Queller, Detention Sphere and Sphinx's Revelation. I'm leaning towards the Sphere since we have many of these effects available in white nowadays. And this card is also removal like Sphere. What would you cut?
If it is cheap I'm still pretty interested in testing it though, maybe the power and uniqueness will out shine the downside for my particular situation.