Hi wtwlf123, after you changed your cube to 405, I began to think about the implications of this change. I also have a powered 540 cube, and I've been thinking about lowering it to 360. Now, after your change, I felt strong to change it. The difficult was in the cuts, very tough nut to crack.
For example, in the green section, are you considering it as unidimensional? What would be green identity? Creature ramp with big dork cheating? I see you cut all the non-creature ramp.
What about only 2 gold cards per guild? No room for the third one? About the 3-color cards, no love for the remaining five colors?
You cut completely Splinter twin deck. A necessary sacrifice as the true unique combo deck in the cube? Too many weak slots?
On individual cards, what do you think about:
- Steppe Lynx: worth the landfall with only 10 fetchs? Weenies should be 15-16 lands, true?
- Imposing Sovereing: redundant effect with new Thalia, worth the duplicity?
- Kor Skyfisher: We found it a bit narrow and difficult played on curve.
- Exalted Angel: pet card?
- Gisela: Do you prefer it over Sublime Archangel?
- Disenchant: What do you think about Forsake the Worldly? Isn't it worth the cycling and possibly be a main card for only one more mana?
- Catastrophe: Is it necessary, after including 2x armaggedon and 2x wrath of god?
- Maloku: I feel he/she? did not aged well, and is too slow for powered environment.
- Bribery: Pet card? Seems a sideboard card against cheat decks only.
- Faerie Conclave over Tolarian Academy?
- How often did black small critters being played? I found those wheel endlessly and anyone interested on black aggro. It lacks the red reach.
- Mardu Strike Leader seems included for a black token sub-theme, or only as an agressive creature?
- Nekraatal + Skinrender + Chupacabra = saturation?
- Diabolic Edict + Chainer's Edict: too much for this effect? What do you think about Innocent Blood as a cheaper card?
- Never played with Nether Void? Sacred cow or a must?
- On red 1-drops: What about Stromkirk Noble? JAckal Pup still holding the fort?
- Flame tongue Kavu: sacred cow? Not great in red deck wins, I think.
- Thundermaw Hellkite over Glorybringer? I'm still not sure on Glorybringer.
- Noose constrictor/Wild mongrel: which deck?
- Carnage Tyrant worth the slot?
- Being green only creature ramp, Nissa Voice of Zendikar only to grow up the small critters?
- Oath of Druids still being picked as a lone archetype? Or included on random cheat decks?
- Pyschatog: pet card? Over Hostage Taker or Scarab God?
- Wouldn't you consider Rakdos Cackler as a strictly red card?
- Same with Militant Dryad as mono white?
- Pernicious Deed found it to be lacking, more with Planeswalkers. Could new Vraska be a replacement?
- With so many cheat cards, wouldn't be more synergistic to play Nahiri over Ajani (boros)?
- Swords full cycle? Two of them are so-so...
By the way, congratulations for your awesome pimped cube and all the hard work behind it. Also for your articles!
For example, in the green section, are you considering it as unidimensional? What would be green identity? Creature ramp with big dork cheating? I see you cut all the non-creature ramp.
Green's identity is ramp and midrange. Supports a super-ramp strategy, as well as fatty cheating. Same as before, but without the aggro 1-drops.
What about only 2 gold cards per guild? No room for the third one? About the 3-color cards, no love for the remaining five colors?
Any time you can cut gold, do it. There's a few cards I miss, but I prefer 2 per guild to 3. And a 5-card generic "multicolor" section for the shard/wedge cards worth using. I don't want the other 5 at all.
You cut completely Splinter twin deck. A necessary sacrifice as the true unique combo deck in the cube? Too many weak slots?
I've never supported Twin. I don't like the "oops I win" element of combo.
On individual cards, what do you think about:
- Steppe Lynx: worth the landfall with only 10 fetchs? Weenies should be 15-16 lands, true?
With the fetches, it's good enough.
- Imposing Sovereing: redundant effect with new Thalia, worth the duplicity?
It helps out aggro's matchup against midrange. I wouldn't mind replacing it, but there's nothing I want to play over it at the moment.
- Kor Skyfisher: We found it a bit narrow and difficult played on curve.
Easily one of my favorite 2-drops. Costs 1 mana with moxes, helps re-buy additional ETB triggers, and costs 1 mana every time you were otherwise going to miss a land drop.
- Exalted Angel: pet card?
Nope, just a good one. I cut all my pet cards in the trim to 405.
- Gisela: Do you prefer it over Sublime Archangel?
By a lot.
- Disenchant: What do you think about Forsake the Worldly? Isn't it worth the cycling and possibly be a main card for only one more mana?
This is a small powered cube. You have targets.
- Catastrophe: Is it necessary, after including 2x armaggedon and 2x wrath of god?
Wrath when behind, Geddon when ahead. Love the flexibility.
- Maloku: I feel he/she? did not aged well, and is too slow for powered environment.
It's a he. And he's great. Has a ton of sweet interactions, and pretty much wins the game immediately if you can untap with it.
- Bribery: Pet card? Seems a sideboard card against cheat decks only.
Pet card? Bribery is insane. And is maindeckable in every matchup. People's opinion that this has to hit Emrakul to be worth using is wildly incorrect.
- Faerie Conclave over Tolarian Academy?
Without support for the artifact.dec? Yes.
- How often did black small critters being played? I found those wheel endlessly and anyone interested on black aggro. It lacks the red reach.
Black aggro is one of our most popular archetypes. The disruption is excellent.
- Mardu Strike Leader seems included for a black token sub-theme, or only as an agressive creature?
It's both. Helps Stax shells as well as being a good aggro creature, and playing well in token shells.
Sure. Ya, I like Forsake the Worldly in medium-sized unpowered cubes that have trimmed several of the must-answer threats, since the cycling will be more relevant there. But in a small powered cube, Disenchant is still the way to go.
Wow! Many thanks for your time and patience! You answered all my many many questions! Hope you and your players enjoy the new cube's setting. Would be helpful to hear the feedback in a few weeks of testing. Keep the good work!
One last question: in the Loam deck, what would be an ideal decklist? Is the only payoff the recurring strip mine/wasteland? Have you considered The Gitrog Monster then_ Or Titania_
Since reducing the size of your cube, I have noticed that you are running quite a bit more mana fixing lands than I would have expected. You are running the ABU duals, fetches, and shocklands - all of which I would have expected, and also all the dual colored manlands plus the vivids. On top of this you are running around 7 lands that I would classify as rainbow lands. Your cubes is 405 cards. This is about 13% color fixing land for your cube. I run a 360 powered cube and run the ABU duals, fetches, and shocklands with around 5 or 6 rainbow lands. This is around 10% of my cube. I am wondering why you have so much more fixing. Do you really need that much? Do you feel like the manlands are just that powerful?
I know the standard response is to just play the cube and figure it out with your group. In my case, I am a cube curator, not a cube player. I don't have a group to play with or the time to play, but I really like the idea of cube so I made one. I am just trying to make it as powerful as possible for the rare chance I get to play with someone. I am trying to decide if I should pick up manlands.
Best Wishes,
Oakcitylarry
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
The first thing I noticed when I dropped to 405 was how much harder fixing was for me. I was at about 12% fixing when I moved down, which came down from about 14% fixing I used at 540. So I added the Vivid cycle to bump the fixing back up to 13%, and drafts have been much smoother. I don't think 4 cycles of guild lands are necessary at 360, but I find that ~13% fixing works better than 10%. I think 10% is probably a bit too low, and 15% is too high. So I split the difference, and it's working much better.
I'm assuming that without the artifact deck, you found Psychatog expendable. It's a bit surprising given how much you've defended that card in the past.
The 'Tog change was threefold. First, the loss of the artifact.dec made the draw-7s too narrow. Which had an impact on 'Tog, which wants them all really bad. 2nd, the concentration of discard outlets is more than adequate at the reduced pool size, which hurts the necessity for 'Tog by a non-zero amount. But most importantly, both blue and black are desperate for playable 5cc creatures. Scarab God is a really powerful card, but more importantly, it's a fantastic 5cc creature. I just felt the void at that slot, and I think it's a more important role to fill at the moment than 'Tog is. I love me some Psychatog, but a lot of the decks/cards that enabled spectacular play from him were trimmed out when the cube shrank, and I just really need a good 5cc creature.
Ya, cuts are really tough, and curve considerations are quite noticeable. Every change requires a tough cut to get a good addition.
This is one of the best/worst things about owning a cube at a smaller size. Every change has a considerable impact on the format and needs to be truly thought out and intentional.
My playgroup has certainly enjoyed playing your cube at the smaller cube size. Being able to draft decks like Wildfire more consistently is always a welcome change. My question is, with the changes to archetypes at the smaller sizes how does a playstyle like tokens play out at this size regarding the removal of things like anthems?
Can you discuss the Paradise > Pool switch, please? I've been trying to find room to bring Pool back in.
Cheers,
rant
The loss of the aggro landfall guys (and Tracker, for that matter) made Paradise worse. So I wanted to replace it for another fringe-playable fixer. And I wanted to play an extra land that help players play 1XX and 2YY costed cards, instead of lands that enable colors you wouldn't have available before. Pool solidifies a decent 2-color manabase, which is what I want to try and encourage; not enabling completely off-color splashes. And ya, the Vivids do make Pool better. Pool helps a UB deck play both Jace Beleren and Damnation. It doesn't enable my RW decks to splash Mind Twist. That's the kind of fixing I'd like more of.
Give it a read here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/articles-podcasts-and-guides/788112-set-p-review-my-top-20-rivals-of-ixalan-cards-for
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My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
For example, in the green section, are you considering it as unidimensional? What would be green identity? Creature ramp with big dork cheating? I see you cut all the non-creature ramp.
What about only 2 gold cards per guild? No room for the third one? About the 3-color cards, no love for the remaining five colors?
You cut completely Splinter twin deck. A necessary sacrifice as the true unique combo deck in the cube? Too many weak slots?
On individual cards, what do you think about:
- Steppe Lynx: worth the landfall with only 10 fetchs? Weenies should be 15-16 lands, true?
- Imposing Sovereing: redundant effect with new Thalia, worth the duplicity?
- Kor Skyfisher: We found it a bit narrow and difficult played on curve.
- Exalted Angel: pet card?
- Gisela: Do you prefer it over Sublime Archangel?
- Disenchant: What do you think about Forsake the Worldly? Isn't it worth the cycling and possibly be a main card for only one more mana?
- Catastrophe: Is it necessary, after including 2x armaggedon and 2x wrath of god?
- Maloku: I feel he/she? did not aged well, and is too slow for powered environment.
- Bribery: Pet card? Seems a sideboard card against cheat decks only.
- Faerie Conclave over Tolarian Academy?
- How often did black small critters being played? I found those wheel endlessly and anyone interested on black aggro. It lacks the red reach.
- Mardu Strike Leader seems included for a black token sub-theme, or only as an agressive creature?
- Nekraatal + Skinrender + Chupacabra = saturation?
- Diabolic Edict + Chainer's Edict: too much for this effect? What do you think about Innocent Blood as a cheaper card?
- Never played with Nether Void? Sacred cow or a must?
- On red 1-drops: What about Stromkirk Noble? JAckal Pup still holding the fort?
- Flame tongue Kavu: sacred cow? Not great in red deck wins, I think.
- Thundermaw Hellkite over Glorybringer? I'm still not sure on Glorybringer.
- Noose constrictor/Wild mongrel: which deck?
- Carnage Tyrant worth the slot?
- Being green only creature ramp, Nissa Voice of Zendikar only to grow up the small critters?
- Oath of Druids still being picked as a lone archetype? Or included on random cheat decks?
- Pyschatog: pet card? Over Hostage Taker or Scarab God?
- Wouldn't you consider Rakdos Cackler as a strictly red card?
- Same with Militant Dryad as mono white?
- Pernicious Deed found it to be lacking, more with Planeswalkers. Could new Vraska be a replacement?
- With so many cheat cards, wouldn't be more synergistic to play Nahiri over Ajani (boros)?
- Swords full cycle? Two of them are so-so...
By the way, congratulations for your awesome pimped cube and all the hard work behind it. Also for your articles!
Cheers!
My cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/51268
Green's identity is ramp and midrange. Supports a super-ramp strategy, as well as fatty cheating. Same as before, but without the aggro 1-drops.
Any time you can cut gold, do it. There's a few cards I miss, but I prefer 2 per guild to 3. And a 5-card generic "multicolor" section for the shard/wedge cards worth using. I don't want the other 5 at all.
I've never supported Twin. I don't like the "oops I win" element of combo.
With the fetches, it's good enough.
It helps out aggro's matchup against midrange. I wouldn't mind replacing it, but there's nothing I want to play over it at the moment.
Easily one of my favorite 2-drops. Costs 1 mana with moxes, helps re-buy additional ETB triggers, and costs 1 mana every time you were otherwise going to miss a land drop.
Nope, just a good one. I cut all my pet cards in the trim to 405.
By a lot.
This is a small powered cube. You have targets.
Wrath when behind, Geddon when ahead. Love the flexibility.
It's a he. And he's great. Has a ton of sweet interactions, and pretty much wins the game immediately if you can untap with it.
Pet card? Bribery is insane. And is maindeckable in every matchup. People's opinion that this has to hit Emrakul to be worth using is wildly incorrect.
Without support for the artifact.dec? Yes.
Black aggro is one of our most popular archetypes. The disruption is excellent.
It's both. Helps Stax shells as well as being a good aggro creature, and playing well in token shells.
Yes, a saturation of good cards.
Need cheap answers to early reanimated creatures. Don't want it to be dead in creature-based decks though, so no on IB.
There are no sacred cows. It's a payoff card for black aggro.
Yes. Pup > Noble, and I hit my target saturation.
There are no sacred cows. Kavu is great. And red does a lot more than just RDW.
Yes. Hellkite survives Wildfire. And it attacks through an army of flying blockers.
Reanimator and aggro-Loam.
Yes. It's a good tool for midrange green decks to be able to beat control.
It's a token/anthem support card. Can single-handedly push the archetype into tier-1, and makes the deck worth going into green for.
As always, Oath is an enabler for fatty-cheating decks of all kinds.
There are no pet cards. It enables grtaveyard strategies in addition to being a cheap win condition that can steal games out of nowhere.
No?
Again, no.
Deed is still the best Golgari card by a country mile.
Nahiri was lackluster, and Ajani is one of my favorite planeswalkers in the cube.
Still yes on Swords. In a combat-centric environment, they're all still very good.
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One last question: in the Loam deck, what would be an ideal decklist? Is the only payoff the recurring strip mine/wasteland? Have you considered The Gitrog Monster then_ Or Titania_
Manlands, fetchlands, strip mine effects, discard outlets ...there's a lot of ways to gaain value from Loam/Crucible effects.
Gitrog/Titania are cool, but I want cards that help me do my thing, not cards that are only good once I'm already doing my thing.
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Bombardment was fine, but it was too narrow. It only saw play in 1-2 specific decks, and I wanted more universally playable cheap burn.
Visitor was a curve cut. I needed 1 less 2-drop and 1 more 3-drop for my black creature curve. Visitor was just the weakest one.
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Since reducing the size of your cube, I have noticed that you are running quite a bit more mana fixing lands than I would have expected. You are running the ABU duals, fetches, and shocklands - all of which I would have expected, and also all the dual colored manlands plus the vivids. On top of this you are running around 7 lands that I would classify as rainbow lands. Your cubes is 405 cards. This is about 13% color fixing land for your cube. I run a 360 powered cube and run the ABU duals, fetches, and shocklands with around 5 or 6 rainbow lands. This is around 10% of my cube. I am wondering why you have so much more fixing. Do you really need that much? Do you feel like the manlands are just that powerful?
I know the standard response is to just play the cube and figure it out with your group. In my case, I am a cube curator, not a cube player. I don't have a group to play with or the time to play, but I really like the idea of cube so I made one. I am just trying to make it as powerful as possible for the rare chance I get to play with someone. I am trying to decide if I should pick up manlands.
Best Wishes,
Oakcitylarry
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Smash to Smithereens -----> Arc Lightning
Squee, Goblin Nabob -----> Flames of the Firebrand
Psychatog -----> The Scarab God
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Other two changes seem uncontroversial.
Cheers,
rant
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Steppe Lynx -> Skymarcher Aspirant
Nether Void -> Asylum Visitor
Chainer’s Edict -> Custodi Lich
Plated Geopede -> Harsh Mentor
Wild Mongrel -> Polukranos, World Eater
Tireless Tracker -> Verdurous Gearhulk
Undiscovered Paradise -> Reflecting Pool
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Overall, thumbs up. In an ideal world, you could fit both Edict and Lich, but I'm sure the smaller size makes that challenging.
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This is one of the best/worst things about owning a cube at a smaller size. Every change has a considerable impact on the format and needs to be truly thought out and intentional.
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Cheers,
rant
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The loss of the aggro landfall guys (and Tracker, for that matter) made Paradise worse. So I wanted to replace it for another fringe-playable fixer. And I wanted to play an extra land that help players play 1XX and 2YY costed cards, instead of lands that enable colors you wouldn't have available before. Pool solidifies a decent 2-color manabase, which is what I want to try and encourage; not enabling completely off-color splashes. And ya, the Vivids do make Pool better. Pool helps a UB deck play both Jace Beleren and Damnation. It doesn't enable my RW decks to splash Mind Twist. That's the kind of fixing I'd like more of.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!