MTG Salvation

Do people tend to draft a lot of land destruction? If not Creeping Mold is a pretty expensive Naturalize.

Oh my, I really really like Viridian Zealot, forgot about the little guy, probably going to be shoved into my cube somewhere.

Parallax Wave -----> Steppe Lynx

What you say about Parallax Wave is somewhat true. Ever since WotC started pushing white removal, the wave has not gotten a lot of love here either. I don't know about removing it for Steppe Lynx, but you have me thinking I could remove my Wave...

Slith Firewalker -----> Plated Geopede
I like it.

Sudden Shock -----> Stone Rain
I happen to like Sudden Shock. I agree it's probably the worst removal spell you have.

Krosan Grip -----> Ice Storm
I also like Krosan Grip for the SS, but your tempo disruption package is very interesting. Green does need more identity other than huge duders.

Overrun -----> Viridian Zealot
I just put Overrun into my cube and it's been stellar. It give drafters a reason to go into green aggro.

Silvos, Rogue Elemental -----> Mold Shambler
I used to hate on Silvos, but man is that guy resilient. Mold Shambler might be a good card for the cube, but I don't think removing Silvos is correct. Let us know how Mold Shambler plays out.

The Rack -----> Crucible of Worlds
I like it.

City of Traitors -----> Undiscovered Paradise
I like this too. If you are going to stop your mana development, at least you get any colored mana - plus plays well with landfall.

Quote from Goodking

Fair enough, but I can't get behind cutting the City of Traitors, especially not for Undiscovered Paradise. It may be good with Vinelasher Kudzu, but Kudzu was nowhere near good enough for my Cube... and I run twice as many green cards as you! It's not really much more busted with landfall when compared to, for example, the bouncelands. I don't want the Paradise for any aggro deck unless I'm running three or more colours, and even then I might not run it. I know the card has spiked in value but it's just not worth it IMO. It sets you back a turn of mana development - not having my two mana on turn 2 makes me sad with aggro.

Well, I ran Undiscovered Paradise before landfall even existed and it was good. Now thit has five times as many cards that it's good with, I can't see how it could be bad. And yes, it's fantastic for 3 color aggro. Topping off your aggro mana curve with this land isn't prohibitive at all, and it's super-nasty with Winter Orb.

Also, you don't like Vinelasher Kudzu? He's been awesome for us. But then, we play a lot of G/x aggro, and that's where he shines. If you play lots of ramp and control with your green, he probably isn't very good.

Quote from xfollowthereaperx »

Do people tend to draft a lot of land destruction? If not Creeping Mold is a pretty expensive Naturalize.

Yes they do. And it's much better than Naturalize, IMO because we enable land destruction here. There are lots of busted lands in the cube... and LD is a draftable archetype for RG in my cube.

Quote from mischief »

I just put Overrun into my cube and it's been stellar. It give drafters a reason to go into green aggro.

It was okay, but I don't need 2 overruns... and Garruk Wildspeaker is better. Plus, the GGG in the cost makes it really hard to cast in 3+ color aggro.

Quote from mischief »

I used to hate on Silvos, but man is that guy resilient. Mold Shambler might be a good card for the cube, but I don't think removing Silvos is correct. Let us know how Mold Shambler plays out.

Silvos is a good card for a deck we don't draft here. He's a fine card, but if he's never played, there's no reason to have him in there. I find green's 4 and 5-drop fatties to be better than him most of the time, and see Silvos sitting on the SB a lot. Mold Shambler is not the most impressive card, but I think it's consistency with be worthwhile and it kills planeswalkers. Something that other green cards can't do. Plus, the Shambler fits my green theme of using creatures that play as spells, and is another naturalize-on-a-stick and more green LD.

wow, I don't understand cutting the wave, you are saying aggro are splashing for spot removal this isn't spot removal its 3 spot removals

Ya, but the removal isn't permanent... and it's expensive for an aggro removal spell. Wave is good, but it's going undrafted in comparison to ALL of white's other removal spells. Control needs Wraths and removal that keeps the threats gone forever, and aggro needs cheap removal. Unfortunately, Wave is neither. White mid-range is what gets the value out of the Wave, and that archetype is rarely drafted. White is purely an aggro or control color in this cube. It was a hard cut, but it was the right cut.

Should I cut Plague Sliver for Graveborn Muse if I'm already running Juzam Djinn (a pet card that will never come out)? I'm thinking yes... but I don't know what else to cut.

Quote from wtwlf123

Should I cut Plague Sliver for Graveborn Muse if I'm already running Juzam Djinn (a pet card that will never come out)? I'm thinking yes... but I don't know what else to cut.

Yes. I would.

Graveborn Muse is great ... don't know if Sliver is the perfect swap but OK.
I also think your last update was OK ... I especially think that Undiscovered Paradise is an improvement over City of Traitors.

I would cut Plague Sliver before I cut Graveborn Muse. Eacy choice, imo.

Graveborn Muse gets picked higher than Juzan Djinn in nearly all of our drafts, and I would consider it the superior card.

OK then... sounds good!

Small change:

Plague Sliver is out for Graveborn Muse. I've been wanting to get her back in since the merger... and I think this is the best way to do it. Thanks.

Yes she is. I used her in both my separate cubes, and I've been trying to find room for her since the cubes combined. I'm anxious to see her back in action.

Then don't put Mold Shambler in your cube.

I know he seems unimpressive, but it's green's out to Planeswalkers, in addition to killing lands, artifacts and enchantments. The style of mid-range green that we play will allow this critter to see lots of play. We try and force 2 things in green... creatures that function as spells, and tempo disruption. Mold Shambler is both.

It is sad that it can't be blinked or reanimated like some of the other green creatures, but much like Kor Sanctifiers, it is just too solid not to run. It doesn't hurt that green gets to 4GG a lot quicker and easier than other colors will.

I know redundancy can be key but I always have looked at Woodfall Primus as green's answer to P-Walkers. The fact that the Shambler requires a kicker is what makes me dubious as well. I don't like the fact that I can't reanimate him, blink him, or bring him in with the likes of T&N. However, if he suits your needs, more power to you.

Edit: Looks like Phantizle beat me to it.

Quote from DerBK

8 mana is also a lot more than 6.

Especially when, by the time you reach 5GGG you might be facing 20 power worth of Dragons, an indestructible opponent's board, an overrun full of 3/3's, a one sided armageddon, or all of the dead creatures in the game coming at you.

I like Mold Shambler a lot as well. We've had him in our cube since Zendikar's release and he's been pretty good so far. There's nothing wrong with a pseudo Desert Twister attached to a 3/3.

Ya, I think I'm going to like him too. It can kill planeswalkers.

Quote from calibretto

I like Mold Shambler a lot as well. We've had him in our cube since Zendikar's release and he's been pretty good so far. There's nothing wrong with a pseudo Desert Twister attached to a 3/3.

Psuedo indeed, I find killing creatures nice

Quote from IA4L »

Psuedo indeed, I find killing creatures nice

I find having creatures is nicer. As is having the ability to play the card for 3G in a pinch. And also being able to bounce it to my hand and cast it again for more permanent destruction shenanigans.

Another minor change. I moved the color-based lands from the land section into their corresponding colors. This allowed me to remove cards from that section to add in more mono-colored cards (like switching Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out so I could add in Innocent Blood) and stuff like that. It also allowed me to find room for Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle and Windbrisk Heights, which were always good enough for the cube, but not better than the other color-based land cards they were competing with. Now that those cards are fighting for a spot among the corresponding 65 card field (vs a 2 card field) they've found a home. Now I can use all four great blue-based nonbasics and the only real great black non-basic without worrying about the numbers. Also, this changed resulted in the cube having some good-looking numbers (65 of each color, 65 artifacts, 65 land and 45 gold). Nice round balanced numbers throughout. Fantastic.

Quote from wtwlf123

Another minor change. I moved the color-based lands from the land section into their corresponding colors. This allowed me to remove cards from that section to add in more mono-colored cards (like switching Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out so I could add in Innocent Blood) and stuff like that. It also allowed me to find room for Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle and Windbrisk Heights, which were always good enough for the cube, but not better than the other color-based land cards they were competing with. Now that those cards are fighting for a spot among the corresponding 65 card field (vs a 2 card field) they've found a home. Now I can use all four great blue-based nonbasics and the only real great black non-basic without worrying about the numbers. Also, this changed resulted in the cube having some good-looking numbers (65 of each color, 65 artifacts, 65 land and 45 gold). Nice round balanced numbers throughout. Fantastic.

I approve whole-heatedly. Running 4 blue nonbasics and 1 red nonbasic won't upset your in-play balance any.

Quote from Phantizle

I approve whole-heatedly. Running 4 blue nonbasics and 1 red nonbasic won't upset your in-play balance any.

Ya I think so. Because the spells are exclusively playable in their colors (can't play Kjeldoran Outpost in a non-white deck) the swich makes sense to me. It's not denying any colors any equal chances to be drafted... the lands just function like cards of that color. Plus, it allows me to use all 4 good blue lands, and the only good black lands without disrupting color balance (because I'm counting them as cards of that color). Kinda a no-brainer, actually. Can't believe it's taken me this long to make the switch.

I had done the same for a while but ultimately I got greedy with wanting to run more blue spells so I moved all of them back into the land section. I don't foresee any issues arising out of doing so, and realistically it makes sense...what non-white deck is going to run Kjeldoran Outpost (for example). However, I would imagine that you would still want to keep the number of lands per section in check to some degree despite some colors having a larger dependancy on lands than others.

Also @ your controversial update: I have been wanting to test out both Ice Storm and Stone Rain myself to potentially strengthen the LD archetype. I recently added both as well, I'll keep you posted on how they play out for us here, though it seems that you probably have more opportunities for testing than I. Nonetheless, I'm hoping that they will prove to be solid additions. Roles and functionality aside, both cards are so iconic that its hard to imagine a draft pool that spans the entire course of magic history without them in it, at least from my perspective.

EDIT: dammit, always a minute or two ahead of me

Quote from wtwlf123

Another minor change. I moved the color-based lands from the land section into their corresponding colors. This allowed me to remove cards from that section to add in more mono-colored cards (like switching Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out so I could add in Innocent Blood) and stuff like that. It also allowed me to find room for Faerie Conclave, Shelldock Isle and Windbrisk Heights, which were always good enough for the cube, but not better than the other color-based land cards they were competing with. Now that those cards are fighting for a spot among the corresponding 65 card field (vs a 2 card field) they've found a home. Now I can use all four great blue-based nonbasics and the only real great black non-basic without worrying about the numbers. Also, this changed resulted in the cube having some good-looking numbers (65 of each color, 65 artifacts, 65 land and 45 gold). Nice round balanced numbers throughout. Fantastic.

Hey, this is a cool idea. I can see myself doing something similar. I find myself missing Faerie Conclave.