The deck is based around 11 creatures 11 gy enablers and 11 reanimation spells....With access to abrupt decays it can answer almost any gy hate...I also like the izzet charms to kill DRS be a looting or counterspell if need be...
I took the list 3-1 beating enchantress, nic-fit, and dredge...I lost to some weird combo deck that was some vintage deck the player ported over to legacy!
Nothing to serious but, something fun to mess around with:)
lately I have been splashing red and have been testing a 1 off izzet charm...It's a careful study that kills deathrite and can be held back as a counter...
I have been play testing the B/R variant someone posted earlier that goes aggressive and gives up the protection in the form of counters...I have found that often times decks spend a lot of resources trying to counter our relevant spells and then eventually we both run out of gas...Usually though I am just looking for the reanimate spell to win me the game which isn't as bad as it seems give the redundancy of the deck...with 4 lotus petal/dark ritual/simian spirit guide getting the combo off T1 actually happens alot more than you would think...I love the deck though! Nothing like dropping Griselbrand T1 then drawing a million other cards to only drop more fatties!
In place of snuff out/dismember is the one off orzhov charm. The charm is an unconditional spot removal that loses us life but also provides a lot of utility in being able to reanimate a death's shadow or save one from a swords to plowshare.
Dark Confidant pry deserves a spot but I am scared to use him with cards like force of will/abyssal persecutor. We also don't have that many ways to get him off the battlefield consistently before he kills us but the deck might need some tweaking to cater to him more because he is an awesome card!
As far as losing life I haven't had any problems so far. Usually fetchlands and shocks + some other cards like probe and thoughtseize are more than enough to get your life total around the ~9ish area quite easily with no help.
I have also found that you aren't trying to lose as much life ASAP you want to be losing life at a somewhat slow but consistent rate because if you don't have Death's Shadow in hand then losing all this life is for nothing and just helping the opponent until you draw into one of your shadows (unless you had one in your opener). One of the cards I like most in this deck is City Of Brass. It's a way to pretty much fix all colors and lose life consistently at our own control.
The deck wants to win by trading 1 for 1 with counter magic and hand disruption and then dropping bombs like Death's Shadow that usually can't be dealt with easily with exhausted resources. In my extensive testing I found I wanted more bombs and I wanted something like tombstalker but it had terrible synergy with snapcaster. I found Abyssal Persecutor and it was perfect! With Deathrite you usually can ramp into him and late game you generally have the mana for him. He dodges abrupt decay/snuff out/dismember and can take care of opposing tombstalkers. The deck has 4 snapcaster + 4 swords + 2 cabal therapy + orzhov charm to effectively have 11 ways of getting Persecutor off the field when you need to win. The deck is incredibly fun and not many people know how to play against it (racing death's shadow is generally not a good idea).
It's good matchups are BUG RUG and Combo since we have hand disruption and counter magic the combo matchup usually is good and if we resolve a Phyrexian Unlife ANT decks have no way to win! Against BUG and RUG we just generally have to resolve a Death's Shadow and they have a very hard time to dealing with it. We also have access to swords and snappy and path in the SB so we can generally find answers to most of their creatures.
The worst matchup by far is U/R delver. Burn isn't the worst because in the SB I am currently working on there is 4 chill so generally we just have to resolve a chill and we can then stall the game out to more chills/bombs. Against burn we can also swords our own shadow if we have to ''go back to 13 life'' if necessary. The U/R delver matchup is terrible because they have so many ways to interact with us through counter magic well having access to the best card against us (Price Of Progress) and lots of burn.
Tell me what you think and give it a try! Probably one of the most fun decks I have played in a while!
I have dropped the Nivmagus idea...I think has its merits but it felt very narrow in that a lot of the time it would just be a 1/2 that I wouldn't to invest in. That being said there were some games where it Niv would be a blow out! I think the straight U/R lists have been tested and proved as far as Niv goes I think it's something you really have to try for yourself!
what are your guys opinion on cyclonic rift vs repeal? I feel like repeal is the universal go to bounce and I know we care about just slowing down the early game to go end game but I feel like rift also has it's merits. I have found that it's overload is like a 'tempo' sweeper in that decks are put back much farther behind. I feel like it's a better late game topdeck with overload and for 2 mana you can save a creature from path which I know this deck has a problem with...just some food for thought and again I am the noob here so I would like to hear others opinions on why repeal would be better
I pretty much took the stock list and took out a mindslaver and oblivion stone. Like I said I haven't had a lot of testing so taking out something like oblivion stone could be wrong especially against aggro decks where you would really want it. Even if they destroy your 1 mindslaver I found that I often could get it back with the trading posts...
I still think my favorite part of it is how no one could rid of any of my creatures without me getting value out of it...
I am by no means an expert on the deck and in fact pry the biggest 'noob' here but from my little testing I have really liked trading post. It has provided so much value and utility and especially with wurmcoil. If they kill it I can sac in response and get back an artifact or draw a card and protects against path to exile. I can then also sac one of the tokens to get back wurmcoil.
Another instance where it worked nicely was when I had tron and enough mana to essentially mindslaver every turn. With a wurmcoil on the battlefield it was GG.
Overall super fun deck that I can't wait to play more! What attracted me to it was treasure mage and wurmcoil (used both of those when I first started getting back into magic)
Another U/R Delver list got second but this time the variant that splashes white for swords and geist...He was also packing the wasteland/stifle combo!
Vapor snag can be so awesome against someone playing tombstalker! They exile the yard and then you just bounce it essentially timewalking them. It's also nice if you're playing a deck that has wrath effects to save your creatures!
I really like Nivmagus in how much value you can get out of him. He can also do huge combat tricks that I don't think most people account for initially...
If were going to try and use Nivmagus Elemental what do you guys feel is the best way to protect him? I have toyed around with Clout of Dominius and it generally is a dead card but can cause blowouts with the elemental...Should we just keep counters to protect him?
One thing I think with Niv is that you don't want to feed him until it's necessary. Usually just a 3/4 can get the job done but it has the potential to be bigger if need be...Overall one of the most fun cards I have every played with!
I really like the above list! How has no snapcaster and grim lavamancer been working? I imagine they don't have good synergy with eachother and don't get along at all with Nivmagus but I am hesitant to take out 'staples' of the deck...That being said this is definitely a different take on the typical U/R archetype in focusing on Nivmagus and I am just wondering how it has been working out?
Interesting enough lately I have been doing a lot of testing with Nivmagus and his results thus far has been interesting...Niv can provide some utility, can be explosive and blow out decks that don't have an answer...That being said against certain archetypes Niv is about the worst thing you could ever ask for!
I really like him G1 to eat any spells that aren't relevant/get value when you lose a counter war/eat up spells like daze that get worse throughout the game
I wasn't even using flusterstorms and I still liked him! More often than not I would have a line of play like T1 niv T2 lightning bolt>daze the bolt>have niv eat the daze>deal 6 damage...It was a lot of fun and very powerful
I think the hardest part about Niv is the amount of finesse required to use him...to make him relevant you have to sacrifice CA for raw power but you can be very vulnerable to being 2 for 1 which can be devastating!
The only thing I added MB to help Niv were 2 clout of the dominius...unless you are super far behind the game or the opponent has a wrath effect a shrouded Nivmagus will usually be able to seal the deal...Clout can also play nice with delver if you want to make sure delver is secure and can swing in for a bit more damage...All in all the card is high risk and high reward but has some great applications with some definite down sides but if played right in the right build can be a pretty awesome card!
Hey guys another question here looking for insight from the players with a lot more experience with the deck...What hands do we mulligan/keep? To ask something more specific do we need a delver/goblin guide in our opening hand to make it remotely keepable?
I think loxodon smiter is a decent answer...At worst we trade 1 for 1 although not ideal it forces them to choose between smiter and the dome...I would just make sure you don't have anything else important on the field like a PW that they could redirect too....other options like fiend hunter are also effective
This deck looks awesome and I really want to try it out. Right now I am running a deck that's basically g/w humans splashed with red for kessig malcontents and zealous conscripts. How does it fare against bant/midrange? The main problem I see with my deck is that it's susceptible to boardwipes and being bounced a lot. It feels a little fragile.
3 griselbrand
1 jin-gitaxias, core augur
1 ashen rider
1 blazing archon
1 inkwell leviathan
1 empyrial archangel
1 iona shield of emeria
1 tidespout tyrant
1 elesh norn grand cenobite
4 Faithless looting
3 Izzet Charm
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
3 Animate Dead
4 swan song
4 thoughtseize
4 lotus petal
4 gemstone mine
2 undiscovered paradise
3 badlands
2 underground sea
3 pithing needle
3 tormods crypt
3 ethersworn canonist
4 abrupt decay
2 golgari charm
The deck is based around 11 creatures 11 gy enablers and 11 reanimation spells....With access to abrupt decays it can answer almost any gy hate...I also like the izzet charms to kill DRS be a looting or counterspell if need be...
I took the list 3-1 beating enchantress, nic-fit, and dredge...I lost to some weird combo deck that was some vintage deck the player ported over to legacy!
Nothing to serious but, something fun to mess around with:)
Dark Confidant pry deserves a spot but I am scared to use him with cards like force of will/abyssal persecutor. We also don't have that many ways to get him off the battlefield consistently before he kills us but the deck might need some tweaking to cater to him more because he is an awesome card!
As far as losing life I haven't had any problems so far. Usually fetchlands and shocks + some other cards like probe and thoughtseize are more than enough to get your life total around the ~9ish area quite easily with no help.
I have also found that you aren't trying to lose as much life ASAP you want to be losing life at a somewhat slow but consistent rate because if you don't have Death's Shadow in hand then losing all this life is for nothing and just helping the opponent until you draw into one of your shadows (unless you had one in your opener). One of the cards I like most in this deck is City Of Brass. It's a way to pretty much fix all colors and lose life consistently at our own control.
4 Death's Shadow
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 brainstorm
3 gitaxian probe
2 spell pierce
2 daze
1 counterspell
3 force of will
4 swords to plowshares
1 orzhov charm
2 cabal therapy
3 thoughtsieze
4 marshflats
2 polluted delta
3 city of brass
1 plains
1 swamp
1 island
4 watery grave
1 godless shrine
1 hallowed fountain
The deck wants to win by trading 1 for 1 with counter magic and hand disruption and then dropping bombs like Death's Shadow that usually can't be dealt with easily with exhausted resources. In my extensive testing I found I wanted more bombs and I wanted something like tombstalker but it had terrible synergy with snapcaster. I found Abyssal Persecutor and it was perfect! With Deathrite you usually can ramp into him and late game you generally have the mana for him. He dodges abrupt decay/snuff out/dismember and can take care of opposing tombstalkers. The deck has 4 snapcaster + 4 swords + 2 cabal therapy + orzhov charm to effectively have 11 ways of getting Persecutor off the field when you need to win. The deck is incredibly fun and not many people know how to play against it (racing death's shadow is generally not a good idea).
It's good matchups are BUG RUG and Combo since we have hand disruption and counter magic the combo matchup usually is good and if we resolve a Phyrexian Unlife ANT decks have no way to win! Against BUG and RUG we just generally have to resolve a Death's Shadow and they have a very hard time to dealing with it. We also have access to swords and snappy and path in the SB so we can generally find answers to most of their creatures.
The worst matchup by far is U/R delver. Burn isn't the worst because in the SB I am currently working on there is 4 chill so generally we just have to resolve a chill and we can then stall the game out to more chills/bombs. Against burn we can also swords our own shadow if we have to ''go back to 13 life'' if necessary. The U/R delver matchup is terrible because they have so many ways to interact with us through counter magic well having access to the best card against us (Price Of Progress) and lots of burn.
Tell me what you think and give it a try! Probably one of the most fun decks I have played in a while!
I still think my favorite part of it is how no one could rid of any of my creatures without me getting value out of it...
Another instance where it worked nicely was when I had tron and enough mana to essentially mindslaver every turn. With a wurmcoil on the battlefield it was GG.
Overall super fun deck that I can't wait to play more! What attracted me to it was treasure mage and wurmcoil (used both of those when I first started getting back into magic)
Here's the list http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1107385
I really like Nivmagus in how much value you can get out of him. He can also do huge combat tricks that I don't think most people account for initially...
If were going to try and use Nivmagus Elemental what do you guys feel is the best way to protect him? I have toyed around with Clout of Dominius and it generally is a dead card but can cause blowouts with the elemental...Should we just keep counters to protect him?
One thing I think with Niv is that you don't want to feed him until it's necessary. Usually just a 3/4 can get the job done but it has the potential to be bigger if need be...Overall one of the most fun cards I have every played with!
I really like the above list! How has no snapcaster and grim lavamancer been working? I imagine they don't have good synergy with eachother and don't get along at all with Nivmagus but I am hesitant to take out 'staples' of the deck...That being said this is definitely a different take on the typical U/R archetype in focusing on Nivmagus and I am just wondering how it has been working out?
I really like him G1 to eat any spells that aren't relevant/get value when you lose a counter war/eat up spells like daze that get worse throughout the game
I wasn't even using flusterstorms and I still liked him! More often than not I would have a line of play like T1 niv T2 lightning bolt>daze the bolt>have niv eat the daze>deal 6 damage...It was a lot of fun and very powerful
I think the hardest part about Niv is the amount of finesse required to use him...to make him relevant you have to sacrifice CA for raw power but you can be very vulnerable to being 2 for 1 which can be devastating!
The only thing I added MB to help Niv were 2 clout of the dominius...unless you are super far behind the game or the opponent has a wrath effect a shrouded Nivmagus will usually be able to seal the deal...Clout can also play nice with delver if you want to make sure delver is secure and can swing in for a bit more damage...All in all the card is high risk and high reward but has some great applications with some definite down sides but if played right in the right build can be a pretty awesome card!
What do you guys think?