Why are people suggesting non-blue commanders for Draw, Go? I understand that there are other colors and commanders that play out similarly to Draw, Go, but Draw, Go is a specific archetype that relies on countermagic as its primary disruption elements.
I know you said that politics aren't working at your table much anymore so I'm hesitant to second DirkGently's Phelddagrif suggestion, but it's a completely different type of politicking than Tasigur. Beyond that I think it depends on what your win condition is going to be. If you're generating infinite colorless mana then Thrasios is the best option for sure. I think white contributes more to a Draw, Go esque style than red so I would personally go Tymna over Vial Smasher. If you're not planning on combo, then the field is much wider.
Solid performer for me in Daretti. I have a plethora of ways to generate colorless mana, and running out of cards is what mono-red does. Granted, I have a lot of cards that don't require red mana so I'm able to split my manabase between basics and nonbasics, so I might be overrating it. I think it does compare unfavorably in most decks to Arch of Orazca, though 6 is a whole lot more than 4.
Running nonbasics in mono-red with Blood Moon and Blood Sun doesn't hurt you. However, the argument to keep your basic Mountain count high for mana doublers is a compelling one.
Crystal Vein - Dragons can be pricy and the land setback can be negligible on turn 6. Drownyard Temple - If you have draw/discard effects this can ramp you. Geier Reach Sanitarium - A land that loots in a color that needs as much card draw or selection it can get. Sea Gate Wreckage - With enough colorless lands and mana rocks that produce colorless, this card gives gas in the late game. Zhalfirin Void - More card selection.
EDIT: Oh, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is still around ten bucks. I'd get it while you can, as it's fantastic for monocolored decks.
Diabolic Tutor is just awful to me. Spending your entire turn in the midgame to find a card is a bad deal. I would play Dimir House Guard even without it though since it doubles as a tutor and sac outlet.
Steel Hellkite is fine, but the newly spoiled Meteor Golem is so good in Chainer it isn't even remotely funny.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments.
@toctheyounger77: how have you not picked up altar of dementia it's like three dollars and it's a sac outlet that fuels your graveyard and has dementia in the name i know you like to savor the flavor come on now
Super hyped for the new Nicky B. I had just started working on a prototype Tymna/Ikra list, but it looks like that's getting put on hold while I rebrew a clone/theft control deck with New Bolas at the helm. Time to dust off the old list, I guess.
There's a lot of nonbasics I want to play in monoblack
Which ones?
Because I already run 10 nonbasics in my current MBC list, and I'm starting to think of replacing a couple of them with Swamps. Regardless, I run 27 basics right now and Cabal Stronghold has been a solid performer. Generally speaking, in big mana mono-black, you're going to want a dense enough Swamp count since your manadoublers primarily affect only Swamps and you can't count on having Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth all the time.
Since it taps for mana itself, it's a low risk card with a major upside. It's very much worth playing in mono-black. I've already won games on the back of the extra mana it generates.
Laboratory Maniac is head, shoulders, and buttocks ahead of every alternate win condition. Felidar Sovereign and Test of Endurance see play in casual circles, too. Helix Pinnacle is also susceptible to board wipes, though the ones that hits enchantments are a little rarer.
If you're in a wipe heavy meta you either need to focus on creatures that generate value such as an enter the battlefield effects or dies effects, or switch to a plan that doesn't require creatures. You're trying to do that with alt win cons but there are easier ways of winning, like combo.
Congrats on primer status. I had just started looking into these two a couple of days ago for an Abzan midrange deck and had just started combing through the thread.
I can't say much about cEDH because I think drag racing tricycles is asinine, but it sounds to me like you've just had a rut of bad experiences. How much are you playing these decks? It seems unlikely to me that your typical cEDH deck is going to give you a bunch of garbage consistently because otherwise they wouldn't be cEDH decks.
I don't think Dire Fleet Ravager is a very good inclusion. He can definitely do a lot of damage, but that's about all he does relative to some of your other juicy targets and I don't know if it's worth a slot here. To me, he doesn't really win the game or offer massive utility, so I would look for other reanimation targets almost every time.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is a card I really wanted to like but is kind of a meta call. Against Edgar Markov, it's absolutely savage, but I found it dead weight in a lot of matchups. Shaving damage off of each attack sent your way can be very relevant in a control deck, though, so. I'd keep a close eye on it.
Can't recommend Torment of Hailfire enough, though. It's a bit ubiquitous in black these days, but it's a staple for a reason. It just ends games, especially if you've got a few Paradox Engine untaps rocking.
How has Mox Amber fared? I'm pretty skeptical of the card and haven't seen it do much work in EDH myself but I've been mulling over whether I should include it in my own Dralnu list since mine is very much a Paradox Engine deck.
Speaking of Engine, I see you've cut quite a few mana rocks, down to a paltry six. I know you're not really focusing on the Engine as a win condition, but I would consider adding at least a couple more rocks back into the list to help reach a critical mass to have Engine fuel spectacular plays. Also, rocks are very good on their own in colors that don't ramp very well. Just something to consider.
Your comparison might as well be "But we have an unbanned creature-centric combo, so why we complaining about an aggressive aggro card?" Apples to Eggplants.
It was commentary on a) the absurdity of the current B&R list and b) how silly this thread is. You're either being deliberately obtuse or you really suck at analogies.
I know you said that politics aren't working at your table much anymore so I'm hesitant to second DirkGently's Phelddagrif suggestion, but it's a completely different type of politicking than Tasigur. Beyond that I think it depends on what your win condition is going to be. If you're generating infinite colorless mana then Thrasios is the best option for sure. I think white contributes more to a Draw, Go esque style than red so I would personally go Tymna over Vial Smasher. If you're not planning on combo, then the field is much wider.
Drownyard Temple - If you have draw/discard effects this can ramp you.
Geier Reach Sanitarium - A land that loots in a color that needs as much card draw or selection it can get.
Sea Gate Wreckage - With enough colorless lands and mana rocks that produce colorless, this card gives gas in the late game.
Zhalfirin Void - More card selection.
EDIT: Oh, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is still around ten bucks. I'd get it while you can, as it's fantastic for monocolored decks.
Diabolic Tutor is just awful to me. Spending your entire turn in the midgame to find a card is a bad deal. I would play Dimir House Guard even without it though since it doubles as a tutor and sac outlet.
Steel Hellkite is fine, but the newly spoiled Meteor Golem is so good in Chainer it isn't even remotely funny.
Otherwise I agree with your assessments.
@toctheyounger77: how have you not picked up altar of dementia it's like three dollars and it's a sac outlet that fuels your graveyard and has dementia in the name i know you like to savor the flavor come on now
Because I already run 10 nonbasics in my current MBC list, and I'm starting to think of replacing a couple of them with Swamps. Regardless, I run 27 basics right now and Cabal Stronghold has been a solid performer. Generally speaking, in big mana mono-black, you're going to want a dense enough Swamp count since your mana doublers primarily affect only Swamps and you can't count on having Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth all the time.
Since it taps for mana itself, it's a low risk card with a major upside. It's very much worth playing in mono-black. I've already won games on the back of the extra mana it generates.
If you're in a wipe heavy meta you either need to focus on creatures that generate value such as an enter the battlefield effects or dies effects, or switch to a plan that doesn't require creatures. You're trying to do that with alt win cons but there are easier ways of winning, like combo.
I think a blue/white control/combo deck with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV or Dragonlord Ojutai would work nicely, though if you wanted to splash black and use Oloro, Ageless Ascetic for tutors to find combo pieces and extra removal that's fine, too.
Night of Souls' Betrayal is a card I really wanted to like but is kind of a meta call. Against Edgar Markov, it's absolutely savage, but I found it dead weight in a lot of matchups. Shaving damage off of each attack sent your way can be very relevant in a control deck, though, so. I'd keep a close eye on it.
Can't recommend Torment of Hailfire enough, though. It's a bit ubiquitous in black these days, but it's a staple for a reason. It just ends games, especially if you've got a few Paradox Engine untaps rocking.
How has Mox Amber fared? I'm pretty skeptical of the card and haven't seen it do much work in EDH myself but I've been mulling over whether I should include it in my own Dralnu list since mine is very much a Paradox Engine deck.
Speaking of Engine, I see you've cut quite a few mana rocks, down to a paltry six. I know you're not really focusing on the Engine as a win condition, but I would consider adding at least a couple more rocks back into the list to help reach a critical mass to have Engine fuel spectacular plays. Also, rocks are very good on their own in colors that don't ramp very well. Just something to consider.
Truly, life is suffering.