Each card must be legal in the Standard format; cards banned in the Standard format can't be played in the Brawl variant.
Yeah I'll pass, thanks. The fact that they can't even foresee this becoming a serious problem that they're going to have to change later on inspires little faith from me.
Yes, Recall and Walk go into virtually every blue deck. The more interesting question to me is how someone actually thought this would make for an interesting topic of discussion.
Also, your formatting makes it pretty difficult to read your list. Consider uploading it to tappedoutnet then copying and pasting it back here so that it's at least formatted by card type as that would make suggestions a bit easier.
Okay, so I've completely retooled this deck and I'm on the hunt for feedback and suggestions. I'm pretty satisfied with the core of the deck, but considering the deck is mostly pulled out of my nether regions there's lots of room for improvement.
In scenario 2 its less cut and dry. Oloro basically means that player starts between 50 and 60 life. Which is why he draws hate, for those wondering.
I mean, I get that, but 10-20 life is pretty meaningless in commander imo. Most games either end with a combo, commander damage, some sort of huge damage situation with craterhoof or whatever, or someone having total control over the board, and a few extra life rarely helps in any of those cases. Plus your commander is Oloro, who is pretty meh as a creature. Imo there are tons of commanders that are way scarier than oloro.
This. Oloro is probably the most overrated commander in the format.
On topic, isn't scenario 1 just an idiotic play? Why on Earth would you give someone a head's up who's trying to resolve something as bonkers as Boundless Realms? Kingmaking gives me heartburn.
I really love Brian Weissman's videos (and yeah, it is THE Weissman of The Deck). He mostly plays one on one and all his decks are competitive, but his explanations of each of his actions is so thorough, that I have yet to see anyone explaining control style of decks so well. Sadly, the videos need to be watched, but he has a great voice and explains very calmly. One of the best content creators out there.
Came here to post this. It's doubtful you'll find more nuanced and considered analysis anywhere else. While it's unfortunate that he primarily plays 1v1 his videos are nonetheless incredibly insightful.
Yes, I think a more combo-oriented Dralnu list has a lot of potential. Honestly, the only reason I don't make my list more combo-focused is personal preference. I'd rather play a control game with a combo as a finisher than a deck purely devoted to a combo. That being said, you're right that Paradox Engine is very effective. The only theory crafting I've done to that end is trying to figure out the right number of mana rocks. I know I don't want to go any lower, but there may be room for one more for efficiency's sake.
I totally get where you're coming from with regards to preferring not to make a dedicated combo deck. I'm not a fan of uninteractive decks in general, so a pure balls-to-the-wall combo deck doesn't appeal to me, either. Indeed, I'm shooting for a similar control style deck with a combo finisher as well, I just think it's important to diversify your win conditions so you're not hosed if a vital piece gets removed. Plus, with the exception of Aetherflux Reservoir, each of the combo pieces is very playable individually. I do think the 14 mana rocks I'm running is a tad excessive, though, so removing them for more business cards is probably the right idea. If I had to go with my gut, I'd say ~10 is the sweet spot if you have an unlimited budget. Enough to ramp you into plays early on and hopefully enough to accrue a critical mass of in the mid to late game to fuel Paradox Engine/Scepter + Reversal bomb turns. Since I lack the truly broken mana rocks like Mana Crypt and Chrome Mox I think closer to 12 is better.
Definitely find room for more colored artifacts, if you can. That is one issue I often run into: I have enough mana numbers-wise to go off with the engine, but if only one or even two are making colored mana, it's not nearly as effective.
Yeah, I got some games in against some AI for goldfishing purposes and I found myself running into that problem, too. It's just an issue of trying to find out which rocks to cut and which to add. So...
Yeah, I'm thinking of cutting Everflowing Chalice, Worn Powerstone, and Hedron Archive for Coalition Relic, as I think it's the best among 3cmc mana rocks. That frees up two slots for business. I'm thinking of including Mind's Desire because it's always a card I've wanted to play in EDH but never had the opportunity to until now, but I'm not sure what else to run.
I think Buried Ruin is an auto-include that I forgot. It feels bad to have one of your broken artifacts destroyed.
The other path is the semi-combo of Paradox Engine. This takes a little bit more setup, since you need mana rocks, but once you have a few mana rocks, Dralnu, and Paradox Engine, you start getting insane value with spells that are either free or generating mana, plus the ability to cast all of our spells twice: once from the hand and then again from the grave with Dralnu. The more and more I lean on this as my late game plan, the more I'm considering testing out more mana rocks. Currently, I'm running seven but I think eight or nine might be the better number.
Have you done any more testing or theorycrafting on this route? I was watching one of MTG Muddstah's EDH videos on YouTube with Dralnu and Paradox Engine and oh baby does it look like a lot of fun. I'd be very interested in reading about your new developments.
I decided to rebrew my old crummy Dralnu list into something more combo-oriented:
I also went ahead and added the Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal combo since it plays nicely with all the mana rocks I'm running, and both cards are useful on their own outside of the combo. AEtherflux Reservoir is also an obvious inclusion as a win condition for both Paradox Engine shenanigans as well as the Scepter/Reversal combo, though it's less useful on its own. While I was at it, I threw in Future Sight + Helm of Awakening + Sensei's Divining Top, because it's something I've always wanted to play. As a back up win con I'm going with Metallurgic Summonings since it plays nicely with the other combos I'm running and is a busted mass-Regrowth if need be.
I haven't done any testing yet but it seems like an okay rough draft. I think I'm running too few lands, but finding a cut is difficult. Maybe a counter? Mind Twist even though it's potentially backbreaking?
Countersquall and Negate are functionally equivalent 99.9999% of the time. :\
100% disagree. Countersquall's downside (requiring two different colors of mana) far outweighs its upside (2 life lost). Negate is miles better. I would only consider Countersquall if I was somehow needing more than, say, 15 counters in a heavily blue and black based control deck. And considering I'm actively rebrewing my Dralnu deck, that's coming from a place of deep analysis.
As I intimated in your Phelddagrif thread (which is boss, by the way), I think you're underestimating Negate. The most dangerous spells in EDH are largely noncreatures and being able to stop them cold for only two mana is incredible. As I'm sure you're aware, Negate is the kind of card that increases in quality the higher you move up on the competitive ladder, as mana costs and universality become more relevant. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, and you'd have to be on The Good ***** ® to think otherwise, but I think it's a lot better than the following from your list:
Delay (same CMC, but Negate hard counters rather than, well, delays)
Dream Fracture (Negate has a lower CMC despite card disadvantage]
Commandeer (potentially wins games but also loses games due to extremely awkward casting costs)
Remand (doesn't actually prevent the spell from resolving, putting it more in Memory Lapse tempo territory)
I'm not saying it's top 5 (hint: it's not) but I think it's certainly worth a look if you're in the mood for a heavily blue-based control deck. I would say it's better than most 3 CMC counters, with someobviousexceptions.
While I'm here I'm gonna go ahead and say Exclude is a wonderful hidden gem. Anyone who has played Pauper understands the power of this card. You are guaranteed to have juicy targets for it in EDH, and with only 1713 inclusions on EDHREC I feel comfortable saying it's hidden. As for it being a gem, well, a significantly easier to cast Dismiss that will always have a relevant target is golden as far as I'm concerned.
Okay gang, I've decided to put a little more effort into the original post. It's not finished yet, but I would eventually like to apply for the thread to have primer status. Obviously it isn't completed, but I'm getting there. Does anyone have any feedback on how it's arranged or the general aesthetic of it so far?
Anyway, I was finally able to get some more games in over the past week and I've made a few more changes to the list.
As it turns out the list I posted here was only 98 cards for awhile. Oops!
The physical deck was playing an extra Swamp so I cut that one and one that was supposed to be there. I still have 36 mana producing lands which is fine since I'm running seven or eight sources of cheap ramp depending on how you define Dark Ritual. Honestly, I would like to keep one of them, but there are just so many cards I want to run that I don't mind cutting a boring land for something spicy. Something like cards I had already cut.
I was wrong about Animate Dead and Necromancy. Yes, they're generic goodstuff cards for the deck since I'm not playing reanimator, but what excellent generic goodstuff cards they are. There weren't any times where I truly missed them, but there were moments when they would've been helpful. Sometimes the deck just needs a blocker and any generic fatty will do, and sometimes there's the opportunity to grab a Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger to run away with the game. Plus, as enchantments, they work towards devotion and turning Erebos on which gives us a great blocker even if he is more vulnerable to removal.
Speaking of enabling devotion, Polluted Bonds is back. It's not great, but it's on theme and the late game life gain can be relevant. I mean, Boundless Realms is a thing, as is Splendid Reclamation. Look, I said it wasn't great, what more do you want from me?
As for Volrath's Stronghold, honestly I forgot it was a card until someone used it against me the other day. While I don't run many creatures in the deck, the ones I do run are potent enough to want to recur.
Pithing Needle was a disappointment. It's an okay silver bullet against some commanders but often it doesn't have a great target, and besides, most kill spells would do something similar. It's also kind of boring.
Blighted Fen seems okay in theory since I run Crucible of Worlds, but six mana for a Diabolic Edict is pretty mediocre, even if its recurrable. I've used it a handful of times but most often it sits in play as a crappy colorless mana generating land. It's not Volrath's Stronghold by a mile (or five).
EDIT: Didn't want to double post but after some consideration I'm going to try rogerandover's suggestion of Venser's Journal from six months ago. It's a five mana card that doesn't really do anything, but I'm willing to put aside my skepticism. The deck can burn through its life total pretty quickly and having a way to gain large chunks of life at a time to buy you more time for your attrition cards to do work could be useful. Also, the no maximum hand size part is somewhat relevant when your general draws cards.
What to cut, though?
Praetor's Grasp has continued to be primarily a mediocre tutor. Hardcore cEDH combo decks are pretty rare at my stomping grounds, so like I said earlier I don't get much use from it as a combo hoser. Sadistic Sacrament is a better Jester's Cap effect since it removes more cards and can be kicked in the late game to neuter an opponent. Grasp has slightly more utility, but I dislike relying on my opponents for usable cards.
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a card I go back and forth on frequently. All of his abilities are good, and due to all of the wipes and removal I play it's not uncommon for me to get his ultimate online. That said, there are times where he's a five mana sorcery speed Muder. Still, he's rather versatile and exemplifies the core themes of the deck, so it's kind of a pet card.
I'm leaning towards cutting Praetor's Grasp. It doesn't bring me joy when I draw it which is probably the best reason to cut a card.
Excellent points. The ability to constantly poop out permanents and fatties while locking the game down to protect them while you win seems very good. The only real problem for me personally is that I don't have fetches which I imagine makes her a lot worse. How does your deck fare when you can't get Titania to stick? I feel like if I have to cast her more than three times in stax I won't be able to get there even with a solid ramp package. Do you have a list I could peruse?
Oooh, that's a spicy meatball. Voltron/aggro is a great way to take advantage of a locked down board. The janky Freyalise list I threw together is basically elfball stax and it performed okay in a 1v1. I used your stax package as the chassis for my own, so, thanks!
I have fond memories of playing Plow Under in standard a long time ago. Being able to set them back a few turns both in mana production and seeing new cards is strong. Stunted Growth has incredible art but I'm not sure it's worthwhile. Hands do get full when opponents don't have mana available so it's very likely you'll never whiff with it but eh, it still seems a tad situational since they get to keep their better cards.
Kamahl is in the list as Wrath protection, and I like that he's both a wincon and a pseudo-disruption card in the command zone but I'm not sure he does enough. I'm also a little wary about direct land destruction. It's fine if people have to tap or sac them to one of my stax effects but to actively go after them with Kamahl and a pinger seems a little much for a casual deck. Then again I'm building stax so my pretension of this being casual is somewhat laughable.
As it turns out manadorks and Winter Orb is a strong combo. They're vulnerable to wrath effects, which is unfortunate, but hopefully I get online before they set me back to the stone age. So yeah, I think the elfball route is very viable. The list I tooled around with had a tendency to run out of gas if I couldn't get Freyalise's ultimate off or recur a huge amount of spells with Seasons Past or Praetor's Council.
Titania seems like a very strong option even if I don't have the proper cards. I'll probably toy around with her a bit.
1v1 with phelddagrif? Yeah that's not really the intended use lol. That would definitely skew in favor of high-threat cards like the buybacks.
Yeah... to be fair, though, I've learned that the deck is really good in 1v1. I think you're right about the buyback cards unfortunately. My brother has learned to hate Constant Mists.
Negate seems ok but mostly I just think it seems better to run something like commit // memory. Versatility often seems more important than efficiency, since we're often sitting with all our mana up anyway. stuff like cryptic and confluence are also versatile while bringing some extra power if needed. I've also been liking spell swindle - expensive to hold up, but single-use mana is a great way to ensure we're never tapped out for the rest of the game. And sweet synergy with treasure map which has been fun.
I agree that versatility is great. I love modal spells and planeswalkers because of the pseudo-virtual card advantage inherent in them, so I can definitely get behind that idea. Commit // Memory seems pretty good. Disruption that later refills your hand in an emergency is nice and I like the fact that it buys you more than one turn like Memory Lapse does. 4cmc can be awkward but you're right about sitting on a healthy amount of mana. The deck plays out like BBS/Draw, Go decks of old so playing the more expensive instants is acceptable.
Good point on cantrips - the nature of the deck is such that, if you desperately need a counter/removal/wipe, you've got pretty decent odds of hitting them in the top 4 or so cards with an impulse or something. That might open the door to cards like supreme will, peer through depths, fortune's favor, and flash of insight being pretty good here. I'm less convinced by sorcery speed ones though - good for hitting board wipes, but a bit slow if there's some critical spell you must counter or creature attacking you for lethal. I guess if you notice your hand is missing (a counter/removal/wipe) you can pick whatever is missing though. And it's nice to have cards that double as lands when you're stuck on 4 or whatever.
Holy crap I forgot Supreme Will was a card. Tax counters are much better than people give them credit for and when that mode becomes irrelevant it trades out for something that is. Excellent choice. Peer is on the cusp of playable but it seems miserable on turn 2 when you need a land.
Even the 1 cmc sorceries are great to me. "U: Trade a card in your hand for the best card you find on top" is incredibly versatile and powerful at a bargain bin cost. I'm never sad to see them because early on they smooth out land drops and later on they become wipes, spot removal, or counters as you need them. Boring as they may be, they do so much work it's absurd. I couldn't imagine playing a heavily blue-based deck without them.
EDIT: Ha, I had already cut Holistic Wisdom. I guess I'll cut AEtherize as it seems redundant with all the other fog/protection spells I'm running.
Oh, also, when do you try to run Phelddy out? Sorry if you've gone over this elsewhere but I've had trouble timing it properly. T6 or T7 seems like a good choice to be able to hold up mana for emergency removal, protection, or whatever else, but that's typically when you start seeing wraths deployed.
You might try illusionist's gambit. And don't forget settle the wreckage. Stuff like tangle can be a good way to punish "misplaced aggression" too and it has that quality of only dealing with the situation temporarily, so that people are motivated to deal with it more permanently themselves.
I'll chew on these tonight at work. Gambit and Tangle seem great but I'm incredibly skeptical of Settle. Low cost, instant pseudo-Wraths are nice but I just view the nightmare scenario of them going wide and getting 5+ lands out of the deal. Beats dying, though.
I'm a little surprised to see counterspells like negate and dissolve in your list. Not everyone wants to shell out for a mana drain, but still, I'd think there are better options for most budgets.
How have the cantrip spells like preordain and ponder been? And the ramp spells? Personally I'd be more tempted to play wargate over kodama's etc, since it can hit kor haven and the like. Which, btw, you should probably be running if you want ways to deter attacks.
Keep in mind I've only been able to play with my brother over the Internet in 1v1 games (which is probably the worst way to test this deck) but...
Negate has been just fine. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, but it's still an easily castable 2cmc hard counter. While it can't stop powerful ETB critters, it stops all other sorts of problems like bomb card draw spells, other counters, and game-ending haymakers. I think it's underrated in the format, honestly. Give it a shot, you may be surprised. Dissolve on the other hand is adequate at best. I waver between it and Dismiss at times but 4cmc for a counter is a bit much even if it cantrips. Memory Lapse might be better.
The cantrips are fantastic. I don't run tutors, so they improve the consistency of the deck as best they can without drawing hate (in theory). I've even been thinking of adding Impulse, Anticipate, and Telling Time. Okay, maybe not the last two, but digging for answers four and three deep at instant speed seems strong.
Cultivate et al. do what they say on the tin. +1 ramp is fairly innocuous and my manabase is a little weak without fetches so they're fine. Wargate is actually a great idea. I'll add some more techy lands in and a few more permanents like Lignify and Search for Azcanta and make a package of it.
Yeah I'll pass, thanks. The fact that they can't even foresee this becoming a serious problem that they're going to have to change later on inspires little faith from me.
Have you considered Phyrexian Unlife since it combos with Solemnity? Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace is probably fine even though it's nonbo with Stony Silence since SS is only one card. Maybe Cataclysm and/or Tragic Arrogance and/or Cataclysmic Gearhulk? Sun Titan is a generic goodstuff card but it does get back lots of your deck and beats face pretty efficiently. Solitary Confinement combos well with Endless Horizons.
EDIT: Oh, Scroll Rack is very good with Land Tax.
I'm not sure what Personal Sanctuary is there for.
Also, your formatting makes it pretty difficult to read your list. Consider uploading it to tappedoutnet then copying and pasting it back here so that it's at least formatted by card type as that would make suggestions a bit easier.
I would love to be killed by Door to Nothingness. It's realistically unplayable and dying to janky cards like Door makes me smile.
This. Oloro is probably the most overrated commander in the format.
On topic, isn't scenario 1 just an idiotic play? Why on Earth would you give someone a head's up who's trying to resolve something as bonkers as Boundless Realms? Kingmaking gives me heartburn.
I totally get where you're coming from with regards to preferring not to make a dedicated combo deck. I'm not a fan of uninteractive decks in general, so a pure balls-to-the-wall combo deck doesn't appeal to me, either. Indeed, I'm shooting for a similar control style deck with a combo finisher as well, I just think it's important to diversify your win conditions so you're not hosed if a vital piece gets removed. Plus, with the exception of Aetherflux Reservoir, each of the combo pieces is very playable individually. I do think the 14 mana rocks I'm running is a tad excessive, though, so removing them for more business cards is probably the right idea. If I had to go with my gut, I'd say ~10 is the sweet spot if you have an unlimited budget. Enough to ramp you into plays early on and hopefully enough to accrue a critical mass of in the mid to late game to fuel Paradox Engine/Scepter + Reversal bomb turns. Since I lack the truly broken mana rocks like Mana Crypt and Chrome Mox I think closer to 12 is better.
Yeah, I got some games in against some AI for goldfishing purposes and I found myself running into that problem, too. It's just an issue of trying to find out which rocks to cut and which to add. So...
Yeah, I'm thinking of cutting Everflowing Chalice, Worn Powerstone, and Hedron Archive for Coalition Relic, as I think it's the best among 3cmc mana rocks. That frees up two slots for business. I'm thinking of including Mind's Desire because it's always a card I've wanted to play in EDH but never had the opportunity to until now, but I'm not sure what else to run.
I think Buried Ruin is an auto-include that I forgot. It feels bad to have one of your broken artifacts destroyed.
Have you done any more testing or theorycrafting on this route? I was watching one of MTG Muddstah's EDH videos on YouTube with Dralnu and Paradox Engine and oh baby does it look like a lot of fun. I'd be very interested in reading about your new developments.
I decided to rebrew my old crummy Dralnu list into something more combo-oriented:
1 Dralnu, Lich Lord
Instants: 34
1 Ancient Excavation
1 Arcane Denial
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Condescend
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dig Through Time
1 Dismiss
1 Dissolve
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Dream Fracture
1 Entomb
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbid
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Impulse
1 Into the Roil
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Negate
1 Pongify
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Reality Shift
1 Recoil
1 Supreme Will
1 Swan Song
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Dimir Signet
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Hedron Archive
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Mind Stone
1 Paradox Engine
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sky Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Star Compass
1 Thought Vessel
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
Sorceries: 10
1 All Is Dust
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Fabricate
1 Mind Twist
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Read the Bones
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choked Estuary
1 Command Tower
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Drowned Catacomb
14 Island
1 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Hollow
7 Swamp
1 Tainted Isle
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Underground River
1 Watery Grave
Enchantments: 2
1 Future Sight
1 Metallurgic Summonings
I also went ahead and added the Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal combo since it plays nicely with all the mana rocks I'm running, and both cards are useful on their own outside of the combo. AEtherflux Reservoir is also an obvious inclusion as a win condition for both Paradox Engine shenanigans as well as the Scepter/Reversal combo, though it's less useful on its own. While I was at it, I threw in Future Sight + Helm of Awakening + Sensei's Divining Top, because it's something I've always wanted to play. As a back up win con I'm going with Metallurgic Summonings since it plays nicely with the other combos I'm running and is a busted mass-Regrowth if need be.
I haven't done any testing yet but it seems like an okay rough draft. I think I'm running too few lands, but finding a cut is difficult. Maybe a counter? Mind Twist even though it's potentially backbreaking?
Oh dear, I just realized I'm not running Talisman of Dominance. Gotta find room for that one, colored artifact mana seems very important. Maybe include a 3cmc any-color rock like Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, or even Darksteel Ingot.
100% disagree. Countersquall's downside (requiring two different colors of mana) far outweighs its upside (2 life lost). Negate is miles better. I would only consider Countersquall if I was somehow needing more than, say, 15 counters in a heavily blue and black based control deck. And considering I'm actively rebrewing my Dralnu deck, that's coming from a place of deep analysis.
As I intimated in your Phelddagrif thread (which is boss, by the way), I think you're underestimating Negate. The most dangerous spells in EDH are largely noncreatures and being able to stop them cold for only two mana is incredible. As I'm sure you're aware, Negate is the kind of card that increases in quality the higher you move up on the competitive ladder, as mana costs and universality become more relevant. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, and you'd have to be on The Good ***** ® to think otherwise, but I think it's a lot better than the following from your list:
I'm not saying it's top 5 (hint: it's not) but I think it's certainly worth a look if you're in the mood for a heavily blue-based control deck. I would say it's better than most 3 CMC counters, with some obvious exceptions.
While I'm here I'm gonna go ahead and say Exclude is a wonderful hidden gem. Anyone who has played Pauper understands the power of this card. You are guaranteed to have juicy targets for it in EDH, and with only 1713 inclusions on EDHREC I feel comfortable saying it's hidden. As for it being a gem, well, a significantly easier to cast Dismiss that will always have a relevant target is golden as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I was finally able to get some more games in over the past week and I've made a few more changes to the list.
- 2 Swamp
- Blighted Fen
- Pithing Needle
+ Animate Dead
+ Necromancy
+ Polluted Bonds
+ Volrath's Stronghold
As it turns out the list I posted here was only 98 cards for awhile. Oops!
The physical deck was playing an extra Swamp so I cut that one and one that was supposed to be there. I still have 36 mana producing lands which is fine since I'm running seven or eight sources of cheap ramp depending on how you define Dark Ritual. Honestly, I would like to keep one of them, but there are just so many cards I want to run that I don't mind cutting a boring land for something spicy. Something like cards I had already cut.
I was wrong about Animate Dead and Necromancy. Yes, they're generic goodstuff cards for the deck since I'm not playing reanimator, but what excellent generic goodstuff cards they are. There weren't any times where I truly missed them, but there were moments when they would've been helpful. Sometimes the deck just needs a blocker and any generic fatty will do, and sometimes there's the opportunity to grab a Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger to run away with the game. Plus, as enchantments, they work towards devotion and turning Erebos on which gives us a great blocker even if he is more vulnerable to removal.
Speaking of enabling devotion, Polluted Bonds is back. It's not great, but it's on theme and the late game life gain can be relevant. I mean, Boundless Realms is a thing, as is Splendid Reclamation. Look, I said it wasn't great, what more do you want from me?
As for Volrath's Stronghold, honestly I forgot it was a card until someone used it against me the other day. While I don't run many creatures in the deck, the ones I do run are potent enough to want to recur.
Pithing Needle was a disappointment. It's an okay silver bullet against some commanders but often it doesn't have a great target, and besides, most kill spells would do something similar. It's also kind of boring.
Blighted Fen seems okay in theory since I run Crucible of Worlds, but six mana for a Diabolic Edict is pretty mediocre, even if its recurrable. I've used it a handful of times but most often it sits in play as a crappy colorless mana generating land. It's not Volrath's Stronghold by a mile (or five).
EDIT: Didn't want to double post but after some consideration I'm going to try rogerandover's suggestion of Venser's Journal from six months ago. It's a five mana card that doesn't really do anything, but I'm willing to put aside my skepticism. The deck can burn through its life total pretty quickly and having a way to gain large chunks of life at a time to buy you more time for your attrition cards to do work could be useful. Also, the no maximum hand size part is somewhat relevant when your general draws cards.
What to cut, though?
Praetor's Grasp has continued to be primarily a mediocre tutor. Hardcore cEDH combo decks are pretty rare at my stomping grounds, so like I said earlier I don't get much use from it as a combo hoser. Sadistic Sacrament is a better Jester's Cap effect since it removes more cards and can be kicked in the late game to neuter an opponent. Grasp has slightly more utility, but I dislike relying on my opponents for usable cards.
Ob Nixilis Reignited is a card I go back and forth on frequently. All of his abilities are good, and due to all of the wipes and removal I play it's not uncommon for me to get his ultimate online. That said, there are times where he's a five mana sorcery speed Muder. Still, he's rather versatile and exemplifies the core themes of the deck, so it's kind of a pet card.
I'm leaning towards cutting Praetor's Grasp. It doesn't bring me joy when I draw it which is probably the best reason to cut a card.
- Praetor's Grasp
+ Venser's Journal
Excellent points. The ability to constantly poop out permanents and fatties while locking the game down to protect them while you win seems very good. The only real problem for me personally is that I don't have fetches which I imagine makes her a lot worse. How does your deck fare when you can't get Titania to stick? I feel like if I have to cast her more than three times in stax I won't be able to get there even with a solid ramp package. Do you have a list I could peruse?
Oooh, that's a spicy meatball. Voltron/aggro is a great way to take advantage of a locked down board. The janky Freyalise list I threw together is basically elfball stax and it performed okay in a 1v1. I used your stax package as the chassis for my own, so, thanks!
I saw that thread a few times recently and it's part of the reason I'm trying to do this.
I have fond memories of playing Plow Under in standard a long time ago. Being able to set them back a few turns both in mana production and seeing new cards is strong. Stunted Growth has incredible art but I'm not sure it's worthwhile. Hands do get full when opponents don't have mana available so it's very likely you'll never whiff with it but eh, it still seems a tad situational since they get to keep their better cards.
Kamahl is in the list as Wrath protection, and I like that he's both a wincon and a pseudo-disruption card in the command zone but I'm not sure he does enough. I'm also a little wary about direct land destruction. It's fine if people have to tap or sac them to one of my stax effects but to actively go after them with Kamahl and a pinger seems a little much for a casual deck. Then again I'm building stax so my pretension of this being casual is somewhat laughable.
As it turns out mana dorks and Winter Orb is a strong combo. They're vulnerable to wrath effects, which is unfortunate, but hopefully I get online before they set me back to the stone age. So yeah, I think the elfball route is very viable. The list I tooled around with had a tendency to run out of gas if I couldn't get Freyalise's ultimate off or recur a huge amount of spells with Seasons Past or Praetor's Council.
Titania seems like a very strong option even if I don't have the proper cards. I'll probably toy around with her a bit.
I agree that versatility is great. I love modal spells and planeswalkers because of the pseudo-virtual card advantage inherent in them, so I can definitely get behind that idea. Commit // Memory seems pretty good. Disruption that later refills your hand in an emergency is nice and I like the fact that it buys you more than one turn like Memory Lapse does. 4cmc can be awkward but you're right about sitting on a healthy amount of mana. The deck plays out like BBS/Draw, Go decks of old so playing the more expensive instants is acceptable.
Holy crap I forgot Supreme Will was a card. Tax counters are much better than people give them credit for and when that mode becomes irrelevant it trades out for something that is. Excellent choice. Peer is on the cusp of playable but it seems miserable on turn 2 when you need a land.
Even the 1 cmc sorceries are great to me. "U: Trade a card in your hand for the best card you find on top" is incredibly versatile and powerful at a bargain bin cost. I'm never sad to see them because early on they smooth out land drops and later on they become wipes, spot removal, or counters as you need them. Boring as they may be, they do so much work it's absurd. I couldn't imagine playing a heavily blue-based deck without them.
- Constant Mists
- Capsize
- AEtherize
- Wildest Dreams
- Thaumatic Compass
- Dissolve
- Hour of Revelation
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- 3 Temples
- Plains
+ Supreme Will
+ Commit // Memory
+ Settle the Wreckage
+ Search for Azcanta
+ Stroke of Genius
+ Spell Swindle
+ Wargate
+ Lignify
+ Maze of Ith
+ Kor Haven
+ Forest
+ Island
EDIT: Ha, I had already cut Holistic Wisdom. I guess I'll cut AEtherize as it seems redundant with all the other fog/protection spells I'm running.
Oh, also, when do you try to run Phelddy out? Sorry if you've gone over this elsewhere but I've had trouble timing it properly. T6 or T7 seems like a good choice to be able to hold up mana for emergency removal, protection, or whatever else, but that's typically when you start seeing wraths deployed.
I'll chew on these tonight at work. Gambit and Tangle seem great but I'm incredibly skeptical of Settle. Low cost, instant pseudo-Wraths are nice but I just view the nightmare scenario of them going wide and getting 5+ lands out of the deal. Beats dying, though.
Keep in mind I've only been able to play with my brother over the Internet in 1v1 games (which is probably the worst way to test this deck) but...
Negate has been just fine. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, but it's still an easily castable 2cmc hard counter. While it can't stop powerful ETB critters, it stops all other sorts of problems like bomb card draw spells, other counters, and game-ending haymakers. I think it's underrated in the format, honestly. Give it a shot, you may be surprised. Dissolve on the other hand is adequate at best. I waver between it and Dismiss at times but 4cmc for a counter is a bit much even if it cantrips. Memory Lapse might be better.
The cantrips are fantastic. I don't run tutors, so they improve the consistency of the deck as best they can without drawing hate (in theory). I've even been thinking of adding Impulse, Anticipate, and Telling Time. Okay, maybe not the last two, but digging for answers four and three deep at instant speed seems strong.
Cultivate et al. do what they say on the tin. +1 ramp is fairly innocuous and my manabase is a little weak without fetches so they're fine. Wargate is actually a great idea. I'll add some more techy lands in and a few more permanents like Lignify and Search for Azcanta and make a package of it.