Although that's probably an unfair stance to take. I can see dkings pledging to protect you, a townie, simply because there was a significant push to encourage him to protect you yesterday.
I would have rather him chose someone like Silver or Killjoy simply because they are equally townread but more likely to make an impact/die in the future, and think that would have been the townier play to make.
I love you Tom and appreciate your read on me this game, was surprisingly on point.
My list Day 1 was ranking your songs in terms of how I much I enjoyed them and separated into whether I heard of them or not - very glad the gift you gave to me of Peanut Butter Waffles and of course have a deep respect for the Run the Jewels songs included. I wouldn't let yourself tunnel Proph too much - there's still a high chance of him being scum but it there is anyone that I clear themselves given time it's him soooo
The fact that the day kill came right after nacho switched to summer is just too much for me.
Glad you brought this point up!
Didn't like Rhand bringing this up initially because it's just mudslinging - why would I, as scum, make a big gigantic production of changing the season to summer was I knew scum was getting a daykill? If that was the case, doesn't it make even more sense for me to just ram through the Lynch on KCC?
Keldeo, I see where you're coming from on fulcrum/Rhand, but two counterpoints. The first is that Rhand rolefishing fulcrum and fulcrum getting angry at him is something easily coordinated between the two of them and is not something that hurts their win condition to pull off - I see emotion from fulcrum there, but I don't think it's outside of her range.
I'm still sorry for fake counterclaiming - again, I thought KCC scumslipped and it was a combination of having time to think about it and KCC's pre-death posting that talked me off the ledge. Should have just articulated myself the normal way and it was a remarkably dumb move that I blame on lack of sleep (most of that posting came on work breaks and such) and abundance of rust. People who blame me for everything going wrong in the current gamestate and the general chaos of yesterday are failing to take responsibility for their own parts in the game (vezok, LW) and I hope that my blood can encourage them to contribute something meaningful to the game now.
Gemma died for a reason other than "everyone's townreading her and she's doing things!" - would highly suggest that people dig through her dying reads and don't let her voice die out like most town's do.
Everyone also seems to be ignoring that scum had the chance to shoot Vezok as a mason yesterday and instead shot Gemma. Do you think that scum shoots Gemma if she's completely wrong on me and her main couple of scumreads just because she "looks town"?
Idk? Kills are just wine anyways, for the most part at least
Scum, if playing well, kill people who are the greatest threats to them. If Gemma was wrong on stuff like scumreading Rhand/feeling uneasy about fulcrum/townreading me, she doesn't get shot there because it means she'd do scum's work for them.
I don't know what fulcrum's done today because I haven't really read today (skimmed things but not really read). If I'm scum v Vaimes town here, though, I don't start pushing Vaimes as scum until I intend to mislynch him - the longer he stays in emo mode the more ammunition you have stocked to kill him and, when you're ready to do so, just hit him like a ton of bricks. No need to warn him before you start pushing and no one cares if you were calling him town before.
Everyone also seems to be ignoring that scum had the chance to shoot Vezok as a mason yesterday and instead shot Gemma. Do you think that scum shoots Gemma if she's completely wrong on me and her main couple of scumreads just because she "looks town"? No. Scum shot her because strong player yes, but also strong player who was likely on a correct path.
the defense, "I would never do this as scum", is such an easy defense to make as a wolf honestly
you can die, I dont really care, this game-state is brutal, and as long as its not one my of town reads, or me, then w/e
You won't grow as a player until you learn to take responsibility for your piece of the gamestate.
What have you done to make Day 2 better? (Absolutely nothing). Complaining to make it end here and now damages morale and makes the game thread a more depressing place to post, so...?
If you are self-aware, you know what your scum game looks like, you know what your town game looks like. I can lie about the differences all I like but, again, anyone who knows me realizes that my scum game doesn't look like this. Anyone who has any competency in meta'ing could realize fairly quickly that my scum game doesn't look like this. Doesn't matter how easy the defense is to make, it's just a cold hard fact - sorry if it doesn't help you but you're also not putting any effort into today so it's not like helping you is in my to do list for the day.
Silver I think is probably town because I can see his full solving process fleshed out often. I think if he's scum he has an exceptional attention to detail that he really wouldn't need to be successful here. I haven't heard legends of his scum game.
Lastwhisper goes from unbelievably aggressive to just kind of a duck to rudderless in short periods of time. I don't think that it's coming from scum because it's so agendaless, counterproductive to him being scum.
I understand most of where Proph's coming from. He should probably be given the opportunity to catch up and do *****; Tom's reasoning for him being scum because he didn't have things to contribute when catching up with half of the ***** show is not great. The mechanical reasoning vezok alluded to earlier needs to be outed.
Vaimes isn't scum. He's being a bit whiny overall but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's scum; I don't think that his scum game has the depth that his town game has. I don't think pushes an incorrect case on me if scum (and I certainly don't think he rubs his wrongness in everyone's face immediately before he dies if he's scum here). None of the talk of him using his role improperly has been mechanically sound as far as I can tell - is there really a way to use a role that's basically a crapshoot in a pro-town way? Not really. There are small niggles in that I don't remember what he's done outside of me but those niggles are the type that should be addressed after more pressing things have been settled.
I didn't like KCC's early game, but I liked her play immediately surrounding her death. The "**** you town" energy surrounding her final posts was good, and I really don't think y'all understand how rare it is for scum to put in energy & effort when they are absolutely ****ed is, how easy it would have been for her to crumple after the CC. It's a lot easier to view her early play as town through the lens of someone who doesn't like to be transparent with reads because it lets scum take advantage.
Rhand is probably scum here. I liked his early posting when we were vibing and he was kind of defending me but he flipped when everyone else flipped because he has to. When scrutinizing his posts a little deeper, I don't see much reasoning that isn't garbage; and he will trumpet from all sides on how his reasoning is always weird as town and people pick on it but I didn't have half as many head scratching moments when reading his ISO in Modern & Watchmen and he sure as hell never used "my early reads are good" as justification for any of his reads. His questions lack barb and they lack scum motivation, like - fulcrum says that I'm hiding behind Gemma and misrepresenting her and he just kind of weakly defends himself from me and he can't see why I'm interacting with fulcrum and not him? Really? Him attacking me because I said "y'all" is a fat stack of bull*****, it's not Rhand-town being crazy, it's just garbage reasoning being used by scum on someone he'd like to see mislynched.
Dkingsland hasn't done anything townie at all. Dkings hasn't done anything townie at all. DK hasn't done anything townie but he claims BG in a ****ed game such as this and now he's untouchable??? No.
Keldeo's been extremely thoughtful and genuine in his posting in this thread, I'd ***** myself if he flipped scum here. People also attempted to meta mind and say that his scum game else where was similar to his game here and that's not true at all.
Axelrod had a lot of "I AM AN INDIGNANT" townie posting that owned early, Axelrod was the first that started picking up on Kitty being townie when she was being CC'd, the first to say express doubt before she went down which I don't actually think scum does there because it doesn't do anything good for him. I think his posting, with the exception of super early game when he just sat on his hands and pushed KCC, his posting has been fantastic.
Killjoy is prolly town, he's has strong presence the whole game and also has good paranoid townie moments for most of it. This is one of those that I have little niggles on but I don't really think they should be worried about until others are dead.
Fulcrum is slimy. My biggest read change that seems to be brewing comes from fulcrum-town to fulcrum-scum. I don't like her interactions with me today, I don't think I like her interactions with Gemma yesterday.
Asta seems pure but the read is gut. I don't have as much for him being town as I do for others.
I'm still working in a full catch-up. I'll finish the catch-up by Christmas if I'm not read by then.
But, if I am, anyone here who doesn't recognize me as town cannot pretend to have any small measure of ability to read me (Vaimes, Vezok). There's no way in God's earth that I as scum don't get KCC lynched (regardless of her alignment) and deal with the fallout later. There's no way in God's earth that I admit to lying about something as scum unless I'm forced to or there is an obvious pro-town narrative to the lie.
People saying that I didn't use my power in a pro-town way are additionally absolutely wrong. Kitty's posting when she was going down read extremely town to me - don't care if you understand it or not because you don't have the patience for me to form thoughts, but her seconds before death posting feels town. As a result, giving her the ability to skip her bull***** ability and instead use the strongest town protective ability around (in my opinion) and I know that unless I'm an idiot and completely wrong about Kitty that I'm letting a town player get a strong ability? When the **** else am I supposed to use my ability?
It's insulting me that people think that I am scum here because my play is so erratic and scattered - this is not the play of competent scum, and I am competent scum. This is why I hate playing town - currently I don't really know who scum is so I have to reread and try to let go of general biases even though I know I struggle doing it. I can't make ***** up and I have to spend extra time digging into nuances and trying to see if fulcrum is frustrated because she's town and misunderstood or if she's being aggressive to make me reluctant to being scumread. Being town here sucks because there's nothing here I can actually do to make people think that I'm town here because I don't have time to read enough to think things and talk about them so????
Hey Nacho, don't ******* hide behind Gemma's assessment of me to accuse me of "eating away at your Silver read," when I was actually pointing out something you were wrong. And, btw, my response to Gemma was directly addressing her point.
Taking what she has to say into account doesn't mean that I'm hiding behind her. You saying that I had to be prodded in order to reassess my silver read didn't address the meat of her point; me not immediately changing a read when corrected doesn't mean that I have static reads and it certainly doesn't show that you took the time to look into any of my later posts, which was the point you skipped past.
My specific issue was that we talked about Silver's alignment, you got new info, and then you just ended the conversation. This was resolved, later, when you took it into account. Gemma commented on my feeling about you, I explained why I felt that way with that question, we went from there. It was a direct address.
And yes, you cherry picking one thing she said about me over long conversations when she cannot clarify is hiding behind her.
Ehhh... I don't think I'm doing a ton of cherry picking here.
I mean, I'm rereading the game, so there's going to be a lot of cherry picking as a dredge old ***** up and try to make a forest, but as far as the "addressing my later posts as a whole and seeing if you still felt I had preformed reads" you said that you were processing them and then... nothing?
So if I'm misrepresenting a long conversation you and Gemma had link me to posts and I'll correct it but I don't think I'm being unfair with my interpretation here.
Useless observation of the day is: KCC was the only person who claimed to understand what tom was saying and didn't give a crack at determining what he was saying. More importantly, her reasons for backing off fulcrum here were exceptionally weak - I don't really think that fulcrum's initial objections about people interpreting tom's post restriction were unclear, per se... until I read her clarification in 417 which I DO understand, so, meh?
This unprompted dance down memory lane from Axelrod also town. I can understand feeling clash-y with me and taking a glance back to old games to see if we were two people who normally got along and trying to get a baseline - as scum though, it's a very clean detail to add. And I know that I complained about tom's timing back when all he had were raps to contribute, but the timing on this Axelrod read does feel genuine/puts him in an awkward position if Axel is town here.
446 is one of those small paranoid townie thoughts that I was looking for in KJ - don't think he brings this up and starts showing weird cracks when he's universally townread and no one is messing with him at all - thinks he instead just keeps on doing what he was doing until something goes any way but "absolutely perfect".
I don't like his waffling on Axelrod because it doesn't feel genuine in the least bit: on one side, he's balancing "Axelrod could be town that just thinks differently" and on the other he's balancing "but my early reads are really good...." and I can't say I buy that at all, just seems like a replacement for the actual reasoning he would have if town.
I don't like him backing off his tom townread because he was wrong with some interpretations then kind of holding onto it because "tom's reads are bolded", just feels like a clanky read change.
I don't understand why dk decides to look at his wagon when his wagon doesn't seem to have anything interesting behind it and doesn't seem to interest him in the least bit, but... he does it anyways?
Axelrod freaking out about vez saying there was a positive reaction to Gemma's gifs and there not being a positive reaction here is opportunistic - there's not really scum motivation in pretending that people were townreading Gemma's gifs when they weren't, is there?
Yeah, trying to look at the votes on me from Monday is literally useless.
Then why would you do it anyways...?
I don't like the "why haven't you remotely considered Gemma is buddying you" question from dk, just seems like its intent is to eat at the Gemma read as a whole and not at all a "trying to figure things out" type of way considering he's not particularly suspicious of me OR Gemma.
I appreciate Axelrod's effort to understand what I'm saying in 305 and feel it's less likely a position he takes when he's a wolf, and I like his indignant tone when pressed to give more information, particularly the response to me attacking him for not providing much - digging in and saying that he will give content when he's good and ready seems like an angle he's more likely to take as scum as opposed to the "it's still early and I HAVE provided enough already, look!
Rhand taking time to offer his thoughts on Tom's posts here is a fair amount of effort to ingratiate himself to Tom if he's scum here.
I don't get why LW would take the time to dump on Vaimes if he's scum here. If they're scum together, maybe, but Vaimes's annoyance seems to genuine for that while if Vaimes is town then is this him trying to get on Vaimes's good side? Probably not.
I think the reason I like LW is that he tends to oscillate from the sort of "posts that LW are making as he thinks aloud to himself" like #343 to some of the stronger pushes that he makes down the road - he seems so absolutely rudderless in a way that I can't help but think comes from town.
Someone brought up that fulcrum's frustration here was more likely to be town than not because scum wouldn't be as bothered by tom's antics as she would was here, and I... sort of agree? Like she could be taking A Stand (tm) here or she could be getting mad here because it's what she would do as town, but the point where tom's antics are the most annoying is because the existence of them is getting in the way of you being able to read his slot or getting in the way of him winning and this is pretty potent for an act.
Hey Nacho, don't ******* hide behind Gemma's assessment of me to accuse me of "eating away at your Silver read," when I was actually pointing out something you were wrong. And, btw, my response to Gemma was directly addressing her point.
Taking what she has to say into account doesn't mean that I'm hiding behind her. You saying that I had to be prodded in order to reassess my silver read didn't address the meat of her point; me not immediately changing a read when corrected doesn't mean that I have static reads and it certainly doesn't show that you took the time to look into any of my later posts, which was the point you skipped past.
I still like Vaimes's early play surrounding the attack on me. I like the way he carries himself when he does it (as he does in 75 when talking about my early responses to KCC's claim, and I think that's the piece generally missing from Vaimes's play as scum. Proph and maybe someone else brought up that not reading Vaimes town = Vaimes scum but I thought it was more the blend of waffling then cocksure then waffling sort of mess that is his town play that he has trouble replicating.
I understand's Gemma's reasons for townreading KJ in 126 and agree that it would be an unusual way for him to carry himself if scum unless he's just looking for something easy to dig into.
Silver's thought process of his read on me here seems fairly genuine to me; I like thoughts like this that have a bit of depth but don't actually go anywhere because it's something that scum have no reason to post but to pretend to be town (doesn't advance any adjectives, isn't something widely recognized as town), so positive lean here.
There's been a lot of talk of M1ndreaver's game early being SO HORRIBLY SCUMMY because he can't post as scum, but his most recent scum ISO shows that he's pretty okay with posting? He also never posted with the type of confidence he did here and the play he did here still seems outside his scumrange but I can acknowledge that might be me confbiasing, but, in particular the "don't trust me now but in a few weeks I'll be obvious" + "hulk hogan swing" (which is a significant swing whether you think it fell flat or not) is much much different from his response to LW telling him that he's considering shooting him being "welp I MIGHT be the best kill???".
Vaimes's thought process jumping from 208-210 seems genuine, again. As far as I can tell, Vaimes's process as scum has never been "post whatever the **** he wants" and I think as scum there would be a little more filter/thinking before posting than there was there.
I've expressed this before, but Silver's dramatique surrounding a weirdly weak attack on M1nd & Asta for RVS shenanigans does seem like it's more likely to be town than not. I don't see Silver as a scum player that possesses the skill and the foresight to drum up some fake excitement for a Page 1 read that's based on the possibility of Asta not being new, which was something that was widely known/established/not difficult to research/a tinfoil thought anyways.
I definitely feel Gemma's observations of fulcrum eating away at my Silver townread and her response to that being this (ignoring her actual point and instead just prodding along on the offensive) is gross.
Did a little reading into Eurovision and one thing that I was falsely townreading Rhand for is guiltripping, but his content here is definitely somewhere between Eurovision and Modern Mafia, not incredibly inspiring like I would hope it would be.
In his big reads list, I'm starting to become a bit more sensitive to all of the "this is what town says when they mislynch me..." talk, seems like weird jedi mind trick type of talk to convince people that he's a mislynch.
I also don't really like a few of his reads; Gemma again pointed out that a lot of it is just a mishmash and doesn't really track with a townie forming a gamestate and I most certainly agree. There are pieces of his readslist like the Silver read which doesn't really seem to have any reason to call Silver town but is still a top tier townread and then stuff like criticizing LW for doing the Legend of Zelda thing which is just dumb or calling Vaimes town because he's light and fun but then pointing out that he can fake that as scum (even though that's not a disclaimed he posted in Modern Mafia).
And this is a BEEP BEEP maybe conf bias moment but I also don't like this quote in the readslist: "Her first post feels like she distances herself from town a bit with how she talks about tom. Probably NAI though because she hasn’t been active on the site for a while."
Why is it NAI when fulcrum says something in a way that distances herself from the town since she's been away from the site for a while while when I say something that distances myself from the town it's not NAI even though I've also been away from the site for a little while?
I would have rather him chose someone like Silver or Killjoy simply because they are equally townread but more likely to make an impact/die in the future, and think that would have been the townier play to make.
My list Day 1 was ranking your songs in terms of how I much I enjoyed them and separated into whether I heard of them or not - very glad the gift you gave to me of Peanut Butter Waffles and of course have a deep respect for the Run the Jewels songs included. I wouldn't let yourself tunnel Proph too much - there's still a high chance of him being scum but it there is anyone that I clear themselves given time it's him soooo
Glad you brought this point up!
Didn't like Rhand bringing this up initially because it's just mudslinging - why would I, as scum, make a big gigantic production of changing the season to summer was I knew scum was getting a daykill? If that was the case, doesn't it make even more sense for me to just ram through the Lynch on KCC?
Keldeo, I see where you're coming from on fulcrum/Rhand, but two counterpoints. The first is that Rhand rolefishing fulcrum and fulcrum getting angry at him is something easily coordinated between the two of them and is not something that hurts their win condition to pull off - I see emotion from fulcrum there, but I don't think it's outside of her range.
I'm still sorry for fake counterclaiming - again, I thought KCC scumslipped and it was a combination of having time to think about it and KCC's pre-death posting that talked me off the ledge. Should have just articulated myself the normal way and it was a remarkably dumb move that I blame on lack of sleep (most of that posting came on work breaks and such) and abundance of rust. People who blame me for everything going wrong in the current gamestate and the general chaos of yesterday are failing to take responsibility for their own parts in the game (vezok, LW) and I hope that my blood can encourage them to contribute something meaningful to the game now.
Gemma died for a reason other than "everyone's townreading her and she's doing things!" - would highly suggest that people dig through her dying reads and don't let her voice die out like most town's do.
Scum, if playing well, kill people who are the greatest threats to them. If Gemma was wrong on stuff like scumreading Rhand/feeling uneasy about fulcrum/townreading me, she doesn't get shot there because it means she'd do scum's work for them.
I don't know what fulcrum's done today because I haven't really read today (skimmed things but not really read). If I'm scum v Vaimes town here, though, I don't start pushing Vaimes as scum until I intend to mislynch him - the longer he stays in emo mode the more ammunition you have stocked to kill him and, when you're ready to do so, just hit him like a ton of bricks. No need to warn him before you start pushing and no one cares if you were calling him town before.
LW
Axelrod
Killjoy
Tom
KCC
Vaimes
Keldeo
Asta
Proph
Rhand
DKings
Fulcrum
Everyone also seems to be ignoring that scum had the chance to shoot Vezok as a mason yesterday and instead shot Gemma. Do you think that scum shoots Gemma if she's completely wrong on me and her main couple of scumreads just because she "looks town"? No. Scum shot her because strong player yes, but also strong player who was likely on a correct path.
You won't grow as a player until you learn to take responsibility for your piece of the gamestate.
What have you done to make Day 2 better? (Absolutely nothing). Complaining to make it end here and now damages morale and makes the game thread a more depressing place to post, so...?
If you are self-aware, you know what your scum game looks like, you know what your town game looks like. I can lie about the differences all I like but, again, anyone who knows me realizes that my scum game doesn't look like this. Anyone who has any competency in meta'ing could realize fairly quickly that my scum game doesn't look like this. Doesn't matter how easy the defense is to make, it's just a cold hard fact - sorry if it doesn't help you but you're also not putting any effort into today so it's not like helping you is in my to do list for the day.
Lastwhisper goes from unbelievably aggressive to just kind of a duck to rudderless in short periods of time. I don't think that it's coming from scum because it's so agendaless, counterproductive to him being scum.
I understand most of where Proph's coming from. He should probably be given the opportunity to catch up and do *****; Tom's reasoning for him being scum because he didn't have things to contribute when catching up with half of the ***** show is not great. The mechanical reasoning vezok alluded to earlier needs to be outed.
Vaimes isn't scum. He's being a bit whiny overall but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's scum; I don't think that his scum game has the depth that his town game has. I don't think pushes an incorrect case on me if scum (and I certainly don't think he rubs his wrongness in everyone's face immediately before he dies if he's scum here). None of the talk of him using his role improperly has been mechanically sound as far as I can tell - is there really a way to use a role that's basically a crapshoot in a pro-town way? Not really. There are small niggles in that I don't remember what he's done outside of me but those niggles are the type that should be addressed after more pressing things have been settled.
I didn't like KCC's early game, but I liked her play immediately surrounding her death. The "**** you town" energy surrounding her final posts was good, and I really don't think y'all understand how rare it is for scum to put in energy & effort when they are absolutely ****ed is, how easy it would have been for her to crumple after the CC. It's a lot easier to view her early play as town through the lens of someone who doesn't like to be transparent with reads because it lets scum take advantage.
Rhand is probably scum here. I liked his early posting when we were vibing and he was kind of defending me but he flipped when everyone else flipped because he has to. When scrutinizing his posts a little deeper, I don't see much reasoning that isn't garbage; and he will trumpet from all sides on how his reasoning is always weird as town and people pick on it but I didn't have half as many head scratching moments when reading his ISO in Modern & Watchmen and he sure as hell never used "my early reads are good" as justification for any of his reads. His questions lack barb and they lack scum motivation, like - fulcrum says that I'm hiding behind Gemma and misrepresenting her and he just kind of weakly defends himself from me and he can't see why I'm interacting with fulcrum and not him? Really? Him attacking me because I said "y'all" is a fat stack of bull*****, it's not Rhand-town being crazy, it's just garbage reasoning being used by scum on someone he'd like to see mislynched.
Dkingsland hasn't done anything townie at all. Dkings hasn't done anything townie at all. DK hasn't done anything townie but he claims BG in a ****ed game such as this and now he's untouchable??? No.
Keldeo's been extremely thoughtful and genuine in his posting in this thread, I'd ***** myself if he flipped scum here. People also attempted to meta mind and say that his scum game else where was similar to his game here and that's not true at all.
Axelrod had a lot of "I AM AN INDIGNANT" townie posting that owned early, Axelrod was the first that started picking up on Kitty being townie when she was being CC'd, the first to say express doubt before she went down which I don't actually think scum does there because it doesn't do anything good for him. I think his posting, with the exception of super early game when he just sat on his hands and pushed KCC, his posting has been fantastic.
Killjoy is prolly town, he's has strong presence the whole game and also has good paranoid townie moments for most of it. This is one of those that I have little niggles on but I don't really think they should be worried about until others are dead.
Fulcrum is slimy. My biggest read change that seems to be brewing comes from fulcrum-town to fulcrum-scum. I don't like her interactions with me today, I don't think I like her interactions with Gemma yesterday.
Asta seems pure but the read is gut. I don't have as much for him being town as I do for others.
But, if I am, anyone here who doesn't recognize me as town cannot pretend to have any small measure of ability to read me (Vaimes, Vezok). There's no way in God's earth that I as scum don't get KCC lynched (regardless of her alignment) and deal with the fallout later. There's no way in God's earth that I admit to lying about something as scum unless I'm forced to or there is an obvious pro-town narrative to the lie.
People saying that I didn't use my power in a pro-town way are additionally absolutely wrong. Kitty's posting when she was going down read extremely town to me - don't care if you understand it or not because you don't have the patience for me to form thoughts, but her seconds before death posting feels town. As a result, giving her the ability to skip her bull***** ability and instead use the strongest town protective ability around (in my opinion) and I know that unless I'm an idiot and completely wrong about Kitty that I'm letting a town player get a strong ability? When the **** else am I supposed to use my ability?
It's insulting me that people think that I am scum here because my play is so erratic and scattered - this is not the play of competent scum, and I am competent scum. This is why I hate playing town - currently I don't really know who scum is so I have to reread and try to let go of general biases even though I know I struggle doing it. I can't make ***** up and I have to spend extra time digging into nuances and trying to see if fulcrum is frustrated because she's town and misunderstood or if she's being aggressive to make me reluctant to being scumread. Being town here sucks because there's nothing here I can actually do to make people think that I'm town here because I don't have time to read enough to think things and talk about them so????
Ehhh... I don't think I'm doing a ton of cherry picking here.
I mean, I'm rereading the game, so there's going to be a lot of cherry picking as a dredge old ***** up and try to make a forest, but as far as the "addressing my later posts as a whole and seeing if you still felt I had preformed reads" you said that you were processing them and then... nothing?
So if I'm misrepresenting a long conversation you and Gemma had link me to posts and I'll correct it but I don't think I'm being unfair with my interpretation here.
This unprompted dance down memory lane from Axelrod also town. I can understand feeling clash-y with me and taking a glance back to old games to see if we were two people who normally got along and trying to get a baseline - as scum though, it's a very clean detail to add. And I know that I complained about tom's timing back when all he had were raps to contribute, but the timing on this Axelrod read does feel genuine/puts him in an awkward position if Axel is town here.
446 is one of those small paranoid townie thoughts that I was looking for in KJ - don't think he brings this up and starts showing weird cracks when he's universally townread and no one is messing with him at all - thinks he instead just keeps on doing what he was doing until something goes any way but "absolutely perfect".
Rhand's 487 is... something.
I don't like his waffling on Axelrod because it doesn't feel genuine in the least bit: on one side, he's balancing "Axelrod could be town that just thinks differently" and on the other he's balancing "but my early reads are really good...." and I can't say I buy that at all, just seems like a replacement for the actual reasoning he would have if town.
I don't like him backing off his tom townread because he was wrong with some interpretations then kind of holding onto it because "tom's reads are bolded", just feels like a clanky read change.
I don't understand why dk decides to look at his wagon when his wagon doesn't seem to have anything interesting behind it and doesn't seem to interest him in the least bit, but... he does it anyways?
Axelrod freaking out about vez saying there was a positive reaction to Gemma's gifs and there not being a positive reaction here is opportunistic - there's not really scum motivation in pretending that people were townreading Gemma's gifs when they weren't, is there?
Then why would you do it anyways...?
I don't like the "why haven't you remotely considered Gemma is buddying you" question from dk, just seems like its intent is to eat at the Gemma read as a whole and not at all a "trying to figure things out" type of way considering he's not particularly suspicious of me OR Gemma.
Rhand taking time to offer his thoughts on Tom's posts here is a fair amount of effort to ingratiate himself to Tom if he's scum here.
I don't get why LW would take the time to dump on Vaimes if he's scum here. If they're scum together, maybe, but Vaimes's annoyance seems to genuine for that while if Vaimes is town then is this him trying to get on Vaimes's good side? Probably not.
I think the reason I like LW is that he tends to oscillate from the sort of "posts that LW are making as he thinks aloud to himself" like #343 to some of the stronger pushes that he makes down the road - he seems so absolutely rudderless in a way that I can't help but think comes from town.
Someone brought up that fulcrum's frustration here was more likely to be town than not because scum wouldn't be as bothered by tom's antics as she would was here, and I... sort of agree? Like she could be taking A Stand (tm) here or she could be getting mad here because it's what she would do as town, but the point where tom's antics are the most annoying is because the existence of them is getting in the way of you being able to read his slot or getting in the way of him winning and this is pretty potent for an act.
Taking what she has to say into account doesn't mean that I'm hiding behind her. You saying that I had to be prodded in order to reassess my silver read didn't address the meat of her point; me not immediately changing a read when corrected doesn't mean that I have static reads and it certainly doesn't show that you took the time to look into any of my later posts, which was the point you skipped past.
I understand's Gemma's reasons for townreading KJ in 126 and agree that it would be an unusual way for him to carry himself if scum unless he's just looking for something easy to dig into.
Silver's thought process of his read on me here seems fairly genuine to me; I like thoughts like this that have a bit of depth but don't actually go anywhere because it's something that scum have no reason to post but to pretend to be town (doesn't advance any adjectives, isn't something widely recognized as town), so positive lean here.
There's been a lot of talk of M1ndreaver's game early being SO HORRIBLY SCUMMY because he can't post as scum, but his most recent scum ISO shows that he's pretty okay with posting? He also never posted with the type of confidence he did here and the play he did here still seems outside his scumrange but I can acknowledge that might be me confbiasing, but, in particular the "don't trust me now but in a few weeks I'll be obvious" + "hulk hogan swing" (which is a significant swing whether you think it fell flat or not) is much much different from his response to LW telling him that he's considering shooting him being "welp I MIGHT be the best kill???".
Vaimes's thought process jumping from 208-210 seems genuine, again. As far as I can tell, Vaimes's process as scum has never been "post whatever the **** he wants" and I think as scum there would be a little more filter/thinking before posting than there was there.
I've expressed this before, but Silver's dramatique surrounding a weirdly weak attack on M1nd & Asta for RVS shenanigans does seem like it's more likely to be town than not. I don't see Silver as a scum player that possesses the skill and the foresight to drum up some fake excitement for a Page 1 read that's based on the possibility of Asta not being new, which was something that was widely known/established/not difficult to research/a tinfoil thought anyways.
I definitely feel Gemma's observations of fulcrum eating away at my Silver townread and her response to that being this (ignoring her actual point and instead just prodding along on the offensive) is gross.
Did a little reading into Eurovision and one thing that I was falsely townreading Rhand for is guiltripping, but his content here is definitely somewhere between Eurovision and Modern Mafia, not incredibly inspiring like I would hope it would be.
In his big reads list, I'm starting to become a bit more sensitive to all of the "this is what town says when they mislynch me..." talk, seems like weird jedi mind trick type of talk to convince people that he's a mislynch.
I also don't really like a few of his reads; Gemma again pointed out that a lot of it is just a mishmash and doesn't really track with a townie forming a gamestate and I most certainly agree. There are pieces of his readslist like the Silver read which doesn't really seem to have any reason to call Silver town but is still a top tier townread and then stuff like criticizing LW for doing the Legend of Zelda thing which is just dumb or calling Vaimes town because he's light and fun but then pointing out that he can fake that as scum (even though that's not a disclaimed he posted in Modern Mafia).
And this is a BEEP BEEP maybe conf bias moment but I also don't like this quote in the readslist: "Her first post feels like she distances herself from town a bit with how she talks about tom. Probably NAI though because she hasn’t been active on the site for a while."
Why is it NAI when fulcrum says something in a way that distances herself from the town since she's been away from the site for a while while when I say something that distances myself from the town it's not NAI even though I've also been away from the site for a little while?