Hello, this week I'm Going to play the playoff of a tournament series that warrants invitations for a bigger tournament for top2 and there's a very limited range of decks that I can face, so I was thinking that maybe 8-rack would be a good choice if tuned well for it.
The playoff is in the format that wizards used on the PT (1st and 2nd enter directly to the semifinals, 3rd and 4th on quarterfinals and so on)
The matchups would be:
1st match (I choose first if I play or draw): Winner of match between Burn or RUG Scapeshift (the old version) (most likely to be Burn as it's favored)
2nd match (opponent chooses first if he plays or draws): RG Scapeshift or 4C Humans (or bant)
Then finals, which doesn't really matter as getting top2 is enough
What are your thoughts about tuning 8-rack for this matches? Would it be favored?
I don't think there would be much to change on recent lists for the Valakut/Scapeshift matchups
My biggest concern is the Humans matchup, in which I don't know exactly how to tune the deck for it. What would be your suggestions? How can we tune the list to consistently beat CoCo aggro decks? I'm thinking that Grafdigger's Cage is a good option against CoCo and also, as much Bontu's Last Reckoning as I can fit in the board. But beyond that I'm having a hard time finding what could give a gamebreaker advantage.
Then, the burn matchup, are you having more success choosing to play or to draw?
Would you think that playing 4 Collective Brutality main deck could be a good choice for this expected matches and good enought to give some advantage on the burn matchup? What else would you suggest?
How did Matter Reshaper work out for you? I'm currently weighing it against Tidehollow Sculler and other possible 3-drops.
It's a card that's great when I want blockers in the ground (Death's Shadow Variants, Naya and other Zoo lists) and is also good if the opponent wants to kill creatures (Burn and Abzan). In matches against deck that run Path To Exile it's good if Reshaper makes the opponent spend on it one of their few cards that deal with Reality Smasher.
It really depends on the matchup to say which of the 3-drop Eldrazi are better, but Matter reshaper is generally the easier to cast one and the one that I want to play independently of the board state. Strangler is good if it can kill something so it's worth to wait to cast it, and displacer is better if it can dominate the board blinking other creatures for value.
Overall it is a card that's good if I can cast it on turn 2 from an Eldrazi Temple and pressure the opponent to spend resources giving me the card advantage, but not even close to how absurd is a turn 2 TKS or a turn 3 reality Smasher.
And most of the time I think I would cast a Tidehollow Sculler first if I had to make the choice between both. early game disruption is what generally makes us break the opponents plans and have an easier match
Good to see other people keeping it alive, I will also share my recent results with the current iteraction of the deck.
I'm playing this deck since GP São Paulo last month. My GP list was greatly influenced by thoughts shared in this thread, so first of all I would like to thank everyone that put an effort on it. I had this deck built as a second option for some months but was mainly playing Abzan, as the GP meta had a heavy presence of Eldrazi Tron, I considered changing my choice after playing some trials on the friday of the GP. The good results that I got with this deck in the trials made me stick with it for the main event. After leaving the GP with a record of 5-3-1 due to a relative inexperience with the deck, I felt it was very well positioned for the local meta, so I made small changes in the intention to grind through the PPTQ season.
This is the current iteraction that I'm playing and is what I played in the two tournaments that I reported below. I know it's a 61 card list and that's ugly, but I wanted to try some different things and was very uncertain about the amount of lands in the deck.
Last weekend I played a 29-man PPTQ, in which I lost in the finals after finishing 4-1 and getting 1st in the swiss portion of the event.
This thursday was a national holiday here in Brazil, so 66 people attended to a PPTQ that was tought to be a 25-ish people one. After 7 exhausting rounds I finished in 16th place (4-3 record) losing the win-and-in match for the last spot in the top8.
PPTQ #1 (details about some of my match have already gone away of my mind, so it will be a kind of summary) Round 1: Grixis Shadow
G1 he had no early cratures and spent life agressively trying to draw cards, I had enought early game pressure and disruption.
G2 he cast an early Gurmag Angler who hit me once, but was neutrallized by Mirran Crusader T3, turn 4 I noticed he was goin low on life trying to find another big creature so I decided to race him with crusader, he took the damage, but then I recklessly cast another Mirran Crusader instead of Lingering Souls and he responded with an EoT Kozilek's Return wiping my board. He hit again with gurmag leaving me at 10. I cast lingering souls and flashback it, he decides to stop attacking me, so I start applying pressure in the air and cast an 3-cmc Eldrazi (probably matter reshaper) he has one card in hand and I take the damage from the gurmag hit (forgetting that he could have a TBR), as he doesn't have TBR to punish me, the following turn the tokens finish him in the air.
(2-0)/ 1-0
Round 2: Bant Retreat
G1 a had no removal for his double KotR + retreat comboing me on turn 4. But i gained some value in seeing that he was very inexperienced with the deck, took a lot of time to combo and didn't know about turn phases so well.
G2 disruption and early Reality Smasher dominate the game.
G3 again I apply a lot of pressure and force him into situations that he could have played safer if he was more experienced, he has a large board (like 5-6 dorks) a tireless tracker with plenty of counters, but only 4 life. I attack with all my creatures, he blocks the Smasher only with Tireless Tracker, I activate Vault of the Archangel, then after blocks he cast an Collected Company and brings some useless creture instead of a Kitchen Finks that could have made some difference. as damage is attributed i point that he is dead then the judge that was watching the match explains to him how trample interacts with deathtouch.
(2-1)/ 2-0
Round 3: Abzan
G1 I mulligan to 5, take a lot of early damage but after some incredible topdecks (Relics, Push, Path, seize for his only Rhino) he finds another rhino that brings me dead.
G2 I make one of the largest punts ever, having smasher in hand and two temples I play my T2 land being sure that it's a temple, than i take a look at it and realize I played a Ghost Quarter instead... not being able to cast T3 Smasher his large goyf start beating me, I had also two Mirran Crusader, one gets Thoughtseized and the other was removed by Liliana's minus two in a sequence of terrible missplays from me still tilted for playing the wrong land on turn two.
Lesson: never let missplays from early turns lead you to another ones, If I sequenced correctly the two crusaders could have turned the game.
(0-2)/ 2-1
Round 4: UR Gifts Storm
I was disappointed after losing rd3 match, but was still alive, thinking that a win could lock me on the top8.
G1 the deck does his best demonstration of oppression and 2 Eldrazi Temple, Turn 2 TKS followed by Displacer makes me control his hand and he has no chance.
G2 I disrupt everything that I can, apply some pressure but can't find removal for his creatures. I exile one empty the warrens with TKS and at some point one Grapeshot goes to his graveyard (can't remember how) and I cast surgical extraction on it. I check his deck and see that his only win con left is 1 empty the warrens, so I keep attacking with every possible creature, it's not enought as he had 3 goblins and comboing and once he started comboing his lmost infinite mana allowed him to dig deeply to find the only empty the warrens left. I don't draw mass removal the next turn and lose to 17 angry goblins.
G3 even not being so heavy on disrupt i get some removal for his creatures, so i dont allow anyone to stay on the board, he even casts a gifts ungiven, but
Surgical extraction and Relic makes it easy for me to disrupt it. Some turns later after when I have letal on board he topdecks a past in flames and tries to combo without any creature, fails to do it, make some bad sequencing and loses
(2-1)/ 3-1
At this point I was thinking I could be locked with an ID since 3-1-1 was often enough to make the cut on similar PPTQs I had played before, but my standings doesn't help and I am obliged to play the last round. This is kind of good as I have the possibility of finishing 1st if I win.
Round 5: Counters Company
G1 I am able to kill every Vizier of Remedies that he cast, and the Reality Smasher applies enough pressure to seal the game.
G2 goes incredibly long, I start by casting Surgical Extraction on Vizier Of Remedies and find some extremely opportune Flaying Tendrils through the following turns, when he builds an expressive board again, with Rhonas and 2 Kitchen Finks I find an Eldazi Displacer who shines blinking his attackers, when I think my blinks will not be enought I draw an Path to Exile to remove his Rhonas, it's time in the round and he is not able to kill me in 5 turns.
(1-0)/ 4-1
And then I finished in 1st place, what is very good as prizes are distributed by the swiss standings, but as my match took a lot of time I was not able to find out what my unknown top8 opponent was playing. Top8: GW Auras
G1 I was playing blindly, kept a safe hand with a reasonable game plan. T1 IoK lets me know what he is playing, as he has a lot of creatures that I can race I try to remove the most problematic auras. He draws many other ones and kills me after making my largest Eldrazi look like tiny ants.
G2 he casts only one creature puts all his eggs in one nest and is punished by a well timed Blessed Alliance.
G3 he starts by casting many creatures that i exile with Flaying Tendrills, when he has only one creature he start playing on it and then again, an Blessed Alliance makes the path clear for me to kill him.
(2-1)
Top4: Similar to Todd Steven's GW Company
This one has been the most exhausting and grindiest match I've ever played with the deck. I don't remember much details about G1 (he won) and G2 I won finding the right removal to kill his last creature that was turning an annoying Worship on. G3 he started with Voice and KotR, I took the opportunity to exile the only land in his yard (a Windswept Heath) and follow up with a turn 3 Flaying Tendrils which reset the game. Both of us developed a large board state but reality smasher came to break the stall when he was starting to put counters on his creatures with Gavony Township
(2-1)
Final: Merfolk splashing white for Spell Queller
The opponent was a friend of mine who has been playing this custom Merfolk list for a while and made day 2 of GP São Paulo with it. I had beaten him previously when I was playing Abzan, so i tried to play as close as Abzan that I could.
G1 I started with IoK taking away the Ather Vial and noticing that he was full of Quellers in hand. As I had 3 TKS I played them first as bait for the Quellers, proceeded to kill the Quellers and cleared his hand. I was pressuring his life totals but I had to lose a lot of life due to only having Cave of Koilos to generate colored mana due to him having enchanted two of my lands with Spreading Seas. Then when I needed two more attacks to kill him, he found an Islandwalk lord who providing his two Mutavaults the ability to pass through my blockers and kill me before I could attack him twice.
G2 I don't remember well, just remember I was stomped and could not handle it.
PPTQ #2 (the 66-man event)
Round 1: BG Tron
G1 Enough Pressure and hand disruption made his Tron irrelevant. Worth noting that I bite the bullet and cast Path to Exile on a Wasteland Strangler to ramp me one turn and pressure with reality smasher earlier. It paid of when he had to activate his Oblivion stone to kill my creatures that posed lethal damage and had to take his Karn in the process.
G2 was an academic match, Ghost Quarter on one piece of Tron, Surgical extraction on it. Stony Silence to keep him from getting value of the artifacts, pressure with Relity Smasher, game.
(2-0) / 1-0
Round 2: Affinity
This matchup is a walk in the park for us, we have to really try to lose the match. as I was so relaxed I lost g1 forgetting about the boost given by Master of Etherium. I focused to not make great mistakes on the other games and played safe, lingering souls dominated G2 and an early Stony Silence locked him. On G3 Lingering Souls, efficient removal and Sorin taking me to an unreachable life amount made the win only a matter of time.
(2-1) / 2-0
Round 3: RG Ponza
G1 3 discards including TKS on turn 3 made it impossible for him to develop his game plan.
G2 He cast a turn 2 blood moon followed by Mwonvuli. When I removed the moon with Ratchet Bomb his board state was light-years ahead and I couldn't handle it.
G3 fatal push on dork avoided any chance of turn 2 blood moon, basic lands helped making me safe against it. I made him discard a Mwonvuli Acid Moss and a surgical extraction removing one card that I knew was duplicated in his hand helped me to control the board and avoid him to draw a Bonfire Of the Damned that Courser Of Kruphix was showing on top of his deck.
(2-1) / 3-0
Round 4: UB Faeries
G1 an early Reality Smasher from me and Bitterblossom from him made him lose quickly
G2 and G3 I made such bizzare missplays that I can't even say anything about the match, it unexplainable, I could win both matches, but threw it away with missplays, I don't know... the only reasonable explanation was that I was playing sloppy and/or was hungry and should prepare myself better to unexpected large tournaments.
(1-2) / 3-1
Round 5: Merfolk
G1 he stomped me, did what merfolks do best with an explosive start and cheated creatures from Aether vial
G2 I had some early discards and noticed that he had two Vials in hand and those got locked by Stony Silence, without him having many cards in hand and not being able to cheat in creatures I was able to win the game.
G3 was a fair game, he enchanted one land of mine with Spreading Seas. I had Fragmentize, Disenchant and Lingering Souls in hand, instead of playing safe, casting Fragmentize on the enchantment and making some more blockers from souls, I opted to pass the turn trying to get him with Disenchant on Spreading Seas after he declared attackers, for my disappointment he had Dispel for it, I was not able to race him and the fishes became larger than my blockers.
(1-2) / 3-2
Round 6: Burn
G1 he started by quickly casting a lot of spells, Reality Smasher and TKS did their job hitting quickly as he ran out of gas. He had one draw to try to kill me as I had 4 life, but didn't draw Boros Charm and got killed on the following turn.
G2 he was less aggressive on spells but got advantage of two swiftspears that i struggled to remove, when he cast a Hazoret I didn't have removal for it and he took the game
G3 was won by Collective Brutality taking a spell and draining life followed by IoK on Ensnaring Bridge. Double Reality Smasher in sequence dealt exactly the needed damage to take the match
(2-1) / 4-2
At this point I was 4-2, almost thinking to go away. Standings were posted and I noticed that only the 3 top tables could ID. As my standings were very good (UB Faeries, RG Ponza and Merfolk opponents were locked in top8) I was in 9th and if I won I could get the last spot in the top 8. I knew what my opponent was playing and I knew how I had to play the match to get chance to win
Round 7: RG Scapeshift
G1 I lost the dice roll and kept with: Eldrazi Temple, Fetid Heath, 2x TKS, 2x Reality Smasher, IoK. A risky hand but was the kind of unfair game that I needed to win before he could kill me. It turned out that I didn't drew any land and I cast a total of zero spells in the game.
G2 I had to mulligan to 6 and decided to keep another two-land that could have some action if I drew another land intead of going down to 5. I also had almost no chance to cast spells and lost quickly.
(0-2) / 4-3
So that's it, if you are interested I can explain some of the card choices or absences and also try to bring some sideboard notes, any feedback is welcome as I'm feeling I need to uppdate the list to deal with Merfolk and RG Scapeshift.
was Slow's deck the one that CVM played against BBD on the VS series shown between matches in GP Miami coverage?
Slow stated he had almost the entire list foil and the decklist seem a lot like the one we've been playing.
I would like to know what is your game plan against Temur (mostly RG) mid/aggro and how do you sideboard against them.
I played SlowLNF's current list in two events at my LGS and these explosive Temur decks were my worst headache. I was able to play consistently against all other decks, but I dont know... I felt that against temur I was always losing the race, doesnt matter what choices did I make.
I am wondering if anyone has already tried running Feuerteufel's blue splash and Blinkmoth Nexus at the same deck.
I wanted to play Blinkmoth Nexus instead of counting on Bitterblossom faeries, due to it's being difficult and very expensive here .
Actually Bitterblossom and Spellskite are something that's not easily acessible for me at this moment and I would like to try the deck this week, so I could not count with them and started thinking about alternatives, but mainly based on Feuerteufel's blue splash
I would like to know what you think about the consistency of the manabase if I run something like this
And last doubt is if removing Bitterblossom I would be able to stand the life loss from 4x Watery Grave. I don't have the Darkslick Shores yet, but these are easy to get, so it's just a matter of knowing if they would make a lot of difference from the shocklands.
metagame at my LGS is essentialy composed of Pods, UWx and BGx
Today I took almost your entire list to test in a small tournament in my LGS... and my conclusions is that its is awesome.
The only change I made was +3Sylvan Cariatid in place of -3 Siren of the Silent Song
I went 2-1 with this deck only losing to a friend of mine's White Weenie that has been rocking the store for some weeks in a row (that's why I prefered having a Caryatid to try to stop him instead of a having the Sirens)
And even that match was very close, with my losses happening due to some mistakes that I made like pointless attacking with a 7/7 Ooze for no blockers when he could just kill it afterwards with his spear. And afterwards not using Jace's ultimate when I really needed some free cards from both decks and I had lot of lands untapped and another Jace in my hand to keep using it's +1.
Other matches were:
-RG Monsters: very straightforward easy match, killed everything he had, finished with him killing himself after taking a 5 mana creature.
-MonoBlack: lost G1 with 4 lands and no double mana source to Bile Blight his rats. G2 and G3 I started very weel curved with early DRS, followed by ooze and Pilfered plans then I could dominate the match with some Duskmantle Seer revelations.
General thoughts about this BUGmantle deck is that it's a very solid build only slightly weak when playing against very low curve aggros (like WW which most expensive card was 3 CMC)
But this could be tweaked to improve, I opted for not playing Drown in Sorrow in my sideboard, but think this is a necessary metagame adaptation and also a good answer to MUD.
I'm just still thinking about what I could use in the Siren slot since I don't get the reasons for using it. If you could explain why it showed value for you I would be thankful to understand a little bit more about the deck in other hands.
This week I'm going to test 3 Courser of Kruphix in the 3 CMC slot, because knowing what Duskmantle will reveal sounds to be very helpful, and also it's another source of lifegain and some small card advantage.
That's it. I would like to thank you for showing your ideas,I was starting to brew a list like that but wasn't being able to end up with a successfull instant and sorcery pack.
Awesome, I'm glad you enjoyed the deck and it did good =)
I had this deck in mind ever since Duskmantle Seer was spoiled but the cards just weren't there and it wasnt the right meta call at the time.
When I started putting together the pieces I came up with this creature suit.
As the plan was for the deck to be controlling and disrupting. (Just plain annoying to play against, which I love ^^)
I also ran a 3 Jace, Architect of Thought, 1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave split, but she wasn't too good in here.
So after some games I wanted to cut the Nightveil Specters as I didn't like them at all.
Looking for a replacement I remembered the Siren of the Silent Song and started trying those.
As they fit perfectly with the game plan of disrupting, ruining scry's and pecking away life with evasion.
I started out with 4 of them but I wanted the last Duskmantle Seer
That's pretty much the whole story and why I included them.
They haven't been really bad either, when they can't answer it they'll need to play differently.
Sometimes running things out there into your counterspells for fear of losing the card. (Maybe a bit "best case scenario/struggling opponents" but it's happened quite a few times in testing)
Most memorable wins include:
Defeating RWB burn with a Warleader's Helix reveal countering a second and swinging for the win.
Defeating RG Monsters on a Stormbreath Dragon reveal (and a thoughtseize on my end) taking 1 of 2 dragons in hand and swinging him down to 7, countering the second Stormbreath Dragon on his turn + Deathrite Shaman acivation and then revealing Xenagos, God of Revels =p
I'm curious about your sideboard, as I haven't even started working on one yet =p
Currently my biggest problem has been the Mono Blue Devotion matchup, do you have anything to suggest about these games?
That's why I started the sideboard with Mistcutter Hydras, maybe I would pack 4 of them and take mulligans until at least one of them appears in my hand
Now seriously, I haven't noticed how awesome the Siren was because of not knowing that abilities triggered during untap phase are resolved with the abilities triggered during upkeep. Making your opponent discard a card which Duskmantle just put in his hand makes it even better.
While not using the Sirens, another card that I tried in the deck was Omenspeaker, but i hated it. The scry is nice, ok , you can reduce a little of Duskmantle's damage, but it holds you far behind in the game while the 3 other reasonable option: Siren, Courser of Kruphix and Sylvan Caryatid make sometthing to improve your game plan, I just can't decide which one of these is the best option.
Another doubt is about how much difference Jace, makes in this list, I'm thinking to cut one of them to play with 4 Courser of Kruphix, but it's still something that I will need to test a lot.
Today I took almost your entire list to test in a small tournament in my LGS... and my conclusions is that its is awesome.
The only change I made was +3Sylvan Cariatid in place of -3 Siren of the Silent Song
I went 2-1 with this deck only losing to a friend of mine's White Weenie that has been rocking the store for some weeks in a row (that's why I prefered having a Caryatid to try to stop him instead of a having the Sirens)
And even that match was very close, with my losses happening due to some mistakes that I made like pointless attacking with a 7/7 Ooze for no blockers when he could just kill it afterwards with his spear. And afterwards not using Jace's ultimate when I really needed some free cards from both decks and I had lot of lands untapped and another Jace in my hand to keep using it's +1.
Other matches were:
-RG Monsters: very straightforward easy match, killed everything he had, finished with him killing himself after taking a 5 mana creature.
-MonoBlack: lost G1 with 4 lands and no double mana source to Bile Blight his rats. G2 and G3 I started very weel curved with early DRS, followed by ooze and Pilfered plans then I could dominate the match with some Duskmantle Seer revelations.
General thoughts about this BUGmantle deck is that it's a very solid build only slightly weak when playing against very low curve aggros (like WW which most expensive card was 3 CMC)
But this could be tweaked to improve, I opted for not playing Drown in Sorrow in my sideboard, but think this is a necessary metagame adaptation and also a good answer to MUD.
I'm just still thinking about what I could use in the Siren slot since I don't get the reasons for using it. If you could explain why it showed value for you I would be thankful to understand a little bit more about the deck in other hands.
This week I'm going to test 3 Courser of Kruphix in the 3 CMC slot, because knowing what Duskmantle will reveal sounds to be very helpful, and also it's another source of lifegain and some small card advantage.
That's it. I would like to thank you for showing your ideas,I was starting to brew a list like that but wasn't being able to end up with a successfull instant and sorcery pack.
I currently don't have a sideboard so any tips on what I could potentially put in would be great I haven't been to FNM for a while so not really sure what the meta is going to be like.
Don't you think Jace, Memory Adept would be a good win con for this deck?
I played bug control some time ago,with a list similar to yours, runninng some LOTV. What I felt was that it wasn't really the best planeswalker for the deck, maybe running 1 or 2 is still worth.
What I think you really want is some alternative way to accelarate the end of the game for you, and Jace, Memory Adept does a great job at this, since you can protect him with your big creatures and gain a lot of life.
And what are your thoughts on Trent Douglas's deck that top8ed in GP Calgary?
I obviously shouldn't say that he was wrong as he is there in top8 and not me, but he choose Lifebane over Geralf and still lost to RG Aggro on quarter finals (2-1). Does it seems that Lifebane doesn't really improve too much this match as it was said? I still prefer runninng Geralf's Messengers for the reasons that Ben Delat stated some posts above.
But I liked other choices he made:
- Underworld Connections MB (I like it a lot, I feel it has been the key card for me to beat UWR decks, I'm currently running 3 on my SB)
- Rogue's passage as his 25th land and running only 8 green sources when he choose to have Scavenging Oozes, was he lucky to not get screwed in green?
- 2 Primeval Bounty on SB, nice way to fight against jund? Gonna test it this week
And wasn't there a guy who mentioned that his friend was going to play The Rock in GP Calgary? Was him Trent Douglas? If not could you tell us how did he went?
Hello,
I've just registered in MTGSalvation, but I have been followin this thread for a long time and also I have been playing The Rock since it showed up.
I would like to know if someone have already tested Savage Summoning in this deck and mainly, what cards would you remove from the deck to leave space for it.
I didn't got my hands on the M14 instant yet, so I could not take it to my local championships.
I'm just wondering if playing creatures with flash would make the deck even stroger in the late game when the extra {G} spent should not be a problem.
for example: playing Desecration Demon after opponent get the chance to sac a useless creature, or playing Disciple of Bolas to sac a chump blocker that would die anyways.
The playoff is in the format that wizards used on the PT (1st and 2nd enter directly to the semifinals, 3rd and 4th on quarterfinals and so on)
The matchups would be:
1st match (I choose first if I play or draw): Winner of match between Burn or RUG Scapeshift (the old version) (most likely to be Burn as it's favored)
2nd match (opponent chooses first if he plays or draws): RG Scapeshift or 4C Humans (or bant)
Then finals, which doesn't really matter as getting top2 is enough
What are your thoughts about tuning 8-rack for this matches? Would it be favored?
I don't think there would be much to change on recent lists for the Valakut/Scapeshift matchups
My biggest concern is the Humans matchup, in which I don't know exactly how to tune the deck for it. What would be your suggestions? How can we tune the list to consistently beat CoCo aggro decks? I'm thinking that Grafdigger's Cage is a good option against CoCo and also, as much Bontu's Last Reckoning as I can fit in the board. But beyond that I'm having a hard time finding what could give a gamebreaker advantage.
Then, the burn matchup, are you having more success choosing to play or to draw?
Would you think that playing 4 Collective Brutality main deck could be a good choice for this expected matches and good enought to give some advantage on the burn matchup? What else would you suggest?
It's a card that's great when I want blockers in the ground (Death's Shadow Variants, Naya and other Zoo lists) and is also good if the opponent wants to kill creatures (Burn and Abzan). In matches against deck that run Path To Exile it's good if Reshaper makes the opponent spend on it one of their few cards that deal with Reality Smasher.
It really depends on the matchup to say which of the 3-drop Eldrazi are better, but Matter reshaper is generally the easier to cast one and the one that I want to play independently of the board state. Strangler is good if it can kill something so it's worth to wait to cast it, and displacer is better if it can dominate the board blinking other creatures for value.
Overall it is a card that's good if I can cast it on turn 2 from an Eldrazi Temple and pressure the opponent to spend resources giving me the card advantage, but not even close to how absurd is a turn 2 TKS or a turn 3 reality Smasher.
And most of the time I think I would cast a Tidehollow Sculler first if I had to make the choice between both. early game disruption is what generally makes us break the opponents plans and have an easier match
I'm playing this deck since GP São Paulo last month. My GP list was greatly influenced by thoughts shared in this thread, so first of all I would like to thank everyone that put an effort on it. I had this deck built as a second option for some months but was mainly playing Abzan, as the GP meta had a heavy presence of Eldrazi Tron, I considered changing my choice after playing some trials on the friday of the GP. The good results that I got with this deck in the trials made me stick with it for the main event. After leaving the GP with a record of 5-3-1 due to a relative inexperience with the deck, I felt it was very well positioned for the local meta, so I made small changes in the intention to grind through the PPTQ season.
This is the current iteraction that I'm playing and is what I played in the two tournaments that I reported below. I know it's a 61 card list and that's ugly, but I wanted to try some different things and was very uncertain about the amount of lands in the deck.
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern Of Souls
1 Mutavault
1 Shambling Vent
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
2 Stony Silence
2 Flaying Tendrils
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Disenchant
1 Fragmentize
1 Ratchet Bomb
Last weekend I played a 29-man PPTQ, in which I lost in the finals after finishing 4-1 and getting 1st in the swiss portion of the event.
This thursday was a national holiday here in Brazil, so 66 people attended to a PPTQ that was tought to be a 25-ish people one. After 7 exhausting rounds I finished in 16th place (4-3 record) losing the win-and-in match for the last spot in the top8.
PPTQ #1 (details about some of my match have already gone away of my mind, so it will be a kind of summary)
Round 1: Grixis Shadow
G1 he had no early cratures and spent life agressively trying to draw cards, I had enought early game pressure and disruption.
G2 he cast an early Gurmag Angler who hit me once, but was neutrallized by Mirran Crusader T3, turn 4 I noticed he was goin low on life trying to find another big creature so I decided to race him with crusader, he took the damage, but then I recklessly cast another Mirran Crusader instead of Lingering Souls and he responded with an EoT Kozilek's Return wiping my board. He hit again with gurmag leaving me at 10. I cast lingering souls and flashback it, he decides to stop attacking me, so I start applying pressure in the air and cast an 3-cmc Eldrazi (probably matter reshaper) he has one card in hand and I take the damage from the gurmag hit (forgetting that he could have a TBR), as he doesn't have TBR to punish me, the following turn the tokens finish him in the air.
(2-0)/ 1-0
Round 2: Bant Retreat
G1 a had no removal for his double KotR + retreat comboing me on turn 4. But i gained some value in seeing that he was very inexperienced with the deck, took a lot of time to combo and didn't know about turn phases so well.
G2 disruption and early Reality Smasher dominate the game.
G3 again I apply a lot of pressure and force him into situations that he could have played safer if he was more experienced, he has a large board (like 5-6 dorks) a tireless tracker with plenty of counters, but only 4 life. I attack with all my creatures, he blocks the Smasher only with Tireless Tracker, I activate Vault of the Archangel, then after blocks he cast an Collected Company and brings some useless creture instead of a Kitchen Finks that could have made some difference. as damage is attributed i point that he is dead then the judge that was watching the match explains to him how trample interacts with deathtouch.
(2-1)/ 2-0
Round 3: Abzan
G1 I mulligan to 5, take a lot of early damage but after some incredible topdecks (Relics, Push, Path, seize for his only Rhino) he finds another rhino that brings me dead.
G2 I make one of the largest punts ever, having smasher in hand and two temples I play my T2 land being sure that it's a temple, than i take a look at it and realize I played a Ghost Quarter instead... not being able to cast T3 Smasher his large goyf start beating me, I had also two Mirran Crusader, one gets Thoughtseized and the other was removed by Liliana's minus two in a sequence of terrible missplays from me still tilted for playing the wrong land on turn two.
Lesson: never let missplays from early turns lead you to another ones, If I sequenced correctly the two crusaders could have turned the game.
(0-2)/ 2-1
Round 4: UR Gifts Storm
I was disappointed after losing rd3 match, but was still alive, thinking that a win could lock me on the top8.
G1 the deck does his best demonstration of oppression and 2 Eldrazi Temple, Turn 2 TKS followed by Displacer makes me control his hand and he has no chance.
G2 I disrupt everything that I can, apply some pressure but can't find removal for his creatures. I exile one empty the warrens with TKS and at some point one Grapeshot goes to his graveyard (can't remember how) and I cast surgical extraction on it. I check his deck and see that his only win con left is 1 empty the warrens, so I keep attacking with every possible creature, it's not enought as he had 3 goblins and comboing and once he started comboing his lmost infinite mana allowed him to dig deeply to find the only empty the warrens left. I don't draw mass removal the next turn and lose to 17 angry goblins.
G3 even not being so heavy on disrupt i get some removal for his creatures, so i dont allow anyone to stay on the board, he even casts a gifts ungiven, but
Surgical extraction and Relic makes it easy for me to disrupt it. Some turns later after when I have letal on board he topdecks a past in flames and tries to combo without any creature, fails to do it, make some bad sequencing and loses
(2-1)/ 3-1
At this point I was thinking I could be locked with an ID since 3-1-1 was often enough to make the cut on similar PPTQs I had played before, but my standings doesn't help and I am obliged to play the last round. This is kind of good as I have the possibility of finishing 1st if I win.
Round 5: Counters Company
G1 I am able to kill every Vizier of Remedies that he cast, and the Reality Smasher applies enough pressure to seal the game.
G2 goes incredibly long, I start by casting Surgical Extraction on Vizier Of Remedies and find some extremely opportune Flaying Tendrils through the following turns, when he builds an expressive board again, with Rhonas and 2 Kitchen Finks I find an Eldazi Displacer who shines blinking his attackers, when I think my blinks will not be enought I draw an Path to Exile to remove his Rhonas, it's time in the round and he is not able to kill me in 5 turns.
(1-0)/ 4-1
And then I finished in 1st place, what is very good as prizes are distributed by the swiss standings, but as my match took a lot of time I was not able to find out what my unknown top8 opponent was playing.
Top8: GW Auras
G1 I was playing blindly, kept a safe hand with a reasonable game plan. T1 IoK lets me know what he is playing, as he has a lot of creatures that I can race I try to remove the most problematic auras. He draws many other ones and kills me after making my largest Eldrazi look like tiny ants.
G2 he casts only one creature puts all his eggs in one nest and is punished by a well timed Blessed Alliance.
G3 he starts by casting many creatures that i exile with Flaying Tendrills, when he has only one creature he start playing on it and then again, an Blessed Alliance makes the path clear for me to kill him.
(2-1)
Top4: Similar to Todd Steven's GW Company
This one has been the most exhausting and grindiest match I've ever played with the deck. I don't remember much details about G1 (he won) and G2 I won finding the right removal to kill his last creature that was turning an annoying Worship on. G3 he started with Voice and KotR, I took the opportunity to exile the only land in his yard (a Windswept Heath) and follow up with a turn 3 Flaying Tendrils which reset the game. Both of us developed a large board state but reality smasher came to break the stall when he was starting to put counters on his creatures with Gavony Township
(2-1)
Final: Merfolk splashing white for Spell Queller
The opponent was a friend of mine who has been playing this custom Merfolk list for a while and made day 2 of GP São Paulo with it. I had beaten him previously when I was playing Abzan, so i tried to play as close as Abzan that I could.
G1 I started with IoK taking away the Ather Vial and noticing that he was full of Quellers in hand. As I had 3 TKS I played them first as bait for the Quellers, proceeded to kill the Quellers and cleared his hand. I was pressuring his life totals but I had to lose a lot of life due to only having Cave of Koilos to generate colored mana due to him having enchanted two of my lands with Spreading Seas. Then when I needed two more attacks to kill him, he found an Islandwalk lord who providing his two Mutavaults the ability to pass through my blockers and kill me before I could attack him twice.
G2 I don't remember well, just remember I was stomped and could not handle it.
PPTQ #2 (the 66-man event)
Round 1: BG Tron
G1 Enough Pressure and hand disruption made his Tron irrelevant. Worth noting that I bite the bullet and cast Path to Exile on a Wasteland Strangler to ramp me one turn and pressure with reality smasher earlier. It paid of when he had to activate his Oblivion stone to kill my creatures that posed lethal damage and had to take his Karn in the process.
G2 was an academic match, Ghost Quarter on one piece of Tron, Surgical extraction on it. Stony Silence to keep him from getting value of the artifacts, pressure with Relity Smasher, game.
(2-0) / 1-0
Round 2: Affinity
This matchup is a walk in the park for us, we have to really try to lose the match. as I was so relaxed I lost g1 forgetting about the boost given by Master of Etherium. I focused to not make great mistakes on the other games and played safe, lingering souls dominated G2 and an early Stony Silence locked him. On G3 Lingering Souls, efficient removal and Sorin taking me to an unreachable life amount made the win only a matter of time.
(2-1) / 2-0
Round 3: RG Ponza
G1 3 discards including TKS on turn 3 made it impossible for him to develop his game plan.
G2 He cast a turn 2 blood moon followed by Mwonvuli. When I removed the moon with Ratchet Bomb his board state was light-years ahead and I couldn't handle it.
G3 fatal push on dork avoided any chance of turn 2 blood moon, basic lands helped making me safe against it. I made him discard a Mwonvuli Acid Moss and a surgical extraction removing one card that I knew was duplicated in his hand helped me to control the board and avoid him to draw a Bonfire Of the Damned that Courser Of Kruphix was showing on top of his deck.
(2-1) / 3-0
Round 4: UB Faeries
G1 an early Reality Smasher from me and Bitterblossom from him made him lose quickly
G2 and G3 I made such bizzare missplays that I can't even say anything about the match, it unexplainable, I could win both matches, but threw it away with missplays, I don't know... the only reasonable explanation was that I was playing sloppy and/or was hungry and should prepare myself better to unexpected large tournaments.
(1-2) / 3-1
Round 5: Merfolk
G1 he stomped me, did what merfolks do best with an explosive start and cheated creatures from Aether vial
G2 I had some early discards and noticed that he had two Vials in hand and those got locked by Stony Silence, without him having many cards in hand and not being able to cheat in creatures I was able to win the game.
G3 was a fair game, he enchanted one land of mine with Spreading Seas. I had Fragmentize, Disenchant and Lingering Souls in hand, instead of playing safe, casting Fragmentize on the enchantment and making some more blockers from souls, I opted to pass the turn trying to get him with Disenchant on Spreading Seas after he declared attackers, for my disappointment he had Dispel for it, I was not able to race him and the fishes became larger than my blockers.
(1-2) / 3-2
Round 6: Burn
G1 he started by quickly casting a lot of spells, Reality Smasher and TKS did their job hitting quickly as he ran out of gas. He had one draw to try to kill me as I had 4 life, but didn't draw Boros Charm and got killed on the following turn.
G2 he was less aggressive on spells but got advantage of two swiftspears that i struggled to remove, when he cast a Hazoret I didn't have removal for it and he took the game
G3 was won by Collective Brutality taking a spell and draining life followed by IoK on Ensnaring Bridge. Double Reality Smasher in sequence dealt exactly the needed damage to take the match
(2-1) / 4-2
At this point I was 4-2, almost thinking to go away. Standings were posted and I noticed that only the 3 top tables could ID. As my standings were very good (UB Faeries, RG Ponza and Merfolk opponents were locked in top8) I was in 9th and if I won I could get the last spot in the top 8. I knew what my opponent was playing and I knew how I had to play the match to get chance to win
Round 7: RG Scapeshift
G1 I lost the dice roll and kept with: Eldrazi Temple, Fetid Heath, 2x TKS, 2x Reality Smasher, IoK. A risky hand but was the kind of unfair game that I needed to win before he could kill me. It turned out that I didn't drew any land and I cast a total of zero spells in the game.
G2 I had to mulligan to 6 and decided to keep another two-land that could have some action if I drew another land intead of going down to 5. I also had almost no chance to cast spells and lost quickly.
(0-2) / 4-3
So that's it, if you are interested I can explain some of the card choices or absences and also try to bring some sideboard notes, any feedback is welcome as I'm feeling I need to uppdate the list to deal with Merfolk and RG Scapeshift.
Slow stated he had almost the entire list foil and the decklist seem a lot like the one we've been playing.
I played SlowLNF's current list in two events at my LGS and these explosive Temur decks were my worst headache. I was able to play consistently against all other decks, but I dont know... I felt that against temur I was always losing the race, doesnt matter what choices did I make.
I wanted to play Blinkmoth Nexus instead of counting on Bitterblossom faeries, due to it's being difficult and very expensive here .
Actually Bitterblossom and Spellskite are something that's not easily acessible for me at this moment and I would like to try the deck this week, so I could not count with them and started thinking about alternatives, but mainly based on Feuerteufel's blue splash
I would like to know what you think about the consistency of the manabase if I run something like this
4 Swamp
1 Academy Ruin
3 Buried Ruin
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Permanents - 12
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 The Rack
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Raven's Crime
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Wrench Mind
3 Dismember
3 Darkblast
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Drown In Sorrow
3 Torpor Orb
2 Pithing Needle
Also, the 3 Dismember and 3 Darkblast slot is something that I am not sure, I would accept some advice on what to place here.
Any combination of Funeral Charm / Slaughter pact / Doom Blade could make things better?
And last doubt is if removing Bitterblossom I would be able to stand the life loss from 4x Watery Grave. I don't have the Darkslick Shores yet, but these are easy to get, so it's just a matter of knowing if they would make a lot of difference from the shocklands.
metagame at my LGS is essentialy composed of Pods, UWx and BGx
For my current sideboard I'm using
3x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Duress
2x Drown in Sorrow
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Golgari Charm
2x Pharika's Cure
1x Pithing Needle
Currently my biggest problem has been the Mono Blue Devotion matchup, do you have anything to suggest about these games?
That's why I started the sideboard with Mistcutter Hydras, maybe I would pack 4 of them and take mulligans until at least one of them appears in my hand
Now seriously, I haven't noticed how awesome the Siren was because of not knowing that abilities triggered during untap phase are resolved with the abilities triggered during upkeep. Making your opponent discard a card which Duskmantle just put in his hand makes it even better.
While not using the Sirens, another card that I tried in the deck was Omenspeaker, but i hated it. The scry is nice, ok , you can reduce a little of Duskmantle's damage, but it holds you far behind in the game while the 3 other reasonable option: Siren, Courser of Kruphix and Sylvan Caryatid make sometthing to improve your game plan, I just can't decide which one of these is the best option.
Another doubt is about how much difference Jace, makes in this list, I'm thinking to cut one of them to play with 4 Courser of Kruphix, but it's still something that I will need to test a lot.
Today I took almost your entire list to test in a small tournament in my LGS... and my conclusions is that its is awesome.
The only change I made was +3Sylvan Cariatid in place of -3 Siren of the Silent Song
I went 2-1 with this deck only losing to a friend of mine's White Weenie that has been rocking the store for some weeks in a row (that's why I prefered having a Caryatid to try to stop him instead of a having the Sirens)
And even that match was very close, with my losses happening due to some mistakes that I made like pointless attacking with a 7/7 Ooze for no blockers when he could just kill it afterwards with his spear. And afterwards not using Jace's ultimate when I really needed some free cards from both decks and I had lot of lands untapped and another Jace in my hand to keep using it's +1.
Other matches were:
-RG Monsters: very straightforward easy match, killed everything he had, finished with him killing himself after taking a 5 mana creature.
-MonoBlack: lost G1 with 4 lands and no double mana source to Bile Blight his rats. G2 and G3 I started very weel curved with early DRS, followed by ooze and Pilfered plans then I could dominate the match with some Duskmantle Seer revelations.
General thoughts about this BUGmantle deck is that it's a very solid build only slightly weak when playing against very low curve aggros (like WW which most expensive card was 3 CMC)
But this could be tweaked to improve, I opted for not playing Drown in Sorrow in my sideboard, but think this is a necessary metagame adaptation and also a good answer to MUD.
I'm just still thinking about what I could use in the Siren slot since I don't get the reasons for using it. If you could explain why it showed value for you I would be thankful to understand a little bit more about the deck in other hands.
This week I'm going to test 3 Courser of Kruphix in the 3 CMC slot, because knowing what Duskmantle will reveal sounds to be very helpful, and also it's another source of lifegain and some small card advantage.
That's it. I would like to thank you for showing your ideas,I was starting to brew a list like that but wasn't being able to end up with a successfull instant and sorcery pack.
Don't you think Jace, Memory Adept would be a good win con for this deck?
I played bug control some time ago,with a list similar to yours, runninng some LOTV. What I felt was that it wasn't really the best planeswalker for the deck, maybe running 1 or 2 is still worth.
What I think you really want is some alternative way to accelarate the end of the game for you, and Jace, Memory Adept does a great job at this, since you can protect him with your big creatures and gain a lot of life.
I obviously shouldn't say that he was wrong as he is there in top8 and not me, but he choose Lifebane over Geralf and still lost to RG Aggro on quarter finals (2-1). Does it seems that Lifebane doesn't really improve too much this match as it was said? I still prefer runninng Geralf's Messengers for the reasons that Ben Delat stated some posts above.
But I liked other choices he made:
- Underworld Connections MB (I like it a lot, I feel it has been the key card for me to beat UWR decks, I'm currently running 3 on my SB)
- Rogue's passage as his 25th land and running only 8 green sources when he choose to have Scavenging Oozes, was he lucky to not get screwed in green?
- 2 Primeval Bounty on SB, nice way to fight against jund? Gonna test it this week
4x Overgrown Tomb
1x Rogue's Passage
16x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Creatures:
4x Desecration Demon
2x Disciple of Bolas
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Thragtusk
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Devour Flesh
1x Doom Blade
4x Mutilate
3x Sign in Blood
2x Tragic Slip
1x Underworld Connections
Planeswalkers:
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Vraska the Unseen
2x Curse of Death's Hold
3x Duress
1x Golgari Charm
1x Lifebane Zombie
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Pithing Needle
2x Primeval Bounty
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Underworld Connections
1x Vraska the Unseen
And wasn't there a guy who mentioned that his friend was going to play The Rock in GP Calgary? Was him Trent Douglas? If not could you tell us how did he went?
I've just registered in MTGSalvation, but I have been followin this thread for a long time and also I have been playing The Rock since it showed up.
I would like to know if someone have already tested Savage Summoning in this deck and mainly, what cards would you remove from the deck to leave space for it.
I didn't got my hands on the M14 instant yet, so I could not take it to my local championships.
I'm just wondering if playing creatures with flash would make the deck even stroger in the late game when the extra {G} spent should not be a problem.
for example: playing Desecration Demon after opponent get the chance to sac a useless creature, or playing Disciple of Bolas to sac a chump blocker that would die anyways.