There are still plenty of instants in this set/block, there just isn't a ton instant removal but that mostly affects limited, constructed finds the best removal spells and sticks with them.
Counter magic hasn't been a thing for ages, not sure why you focus so much on it. Bluffing is mightly overrated a skill in MTG, any competent player knows, make your opponent have it.
Sequencing plays is always important, instant or not.
Should we play with our hands splayed out on the table? If bluffing was overrated, wouldnt matter.
What in your opinion is the correct price to charge per pack of this set taking into consideration both the value of cards and the limited printing of the set? Others can chime in too with what they think is fair for a pack.
i'd probably pay 6 dollars with the useless chaff thats filling up the set but i would not be opposed to paying 10-12 if it had more substance like the the first MM print run. I understand that Wasteland, force of will, top ect are valuable cards and will probably remain so but there wizards is knowingly filling the packs with .50-3 dollar cards in the rare slot of packs that retail at $15.
On the other hand, I am the guy who is still butthurt about Mythic Rares being introduced in Shards and losing foils in Lorwyn block.
looks like another garbage cash grab with little substance even more so than MM2015. The whole set is filled with obscure cards that no one asked for (i'm looking at you goblin trenches) and any solid uncommons set at rare. The 5-10 cards in teh set worth anything do not justify the $10MSRP and the $15IRL prices of these lottery tickets.
I'm playing X-wing miniatures for my competitive/brewing fix until the price of standard comes down. It doesnt help that BfZ is a snoozefest of a set for brewers.
I have spent approximately 250 (a fraction of the price of a standard deck) on figures to this date and I have all of the figures i could want to use in the foreseeable future. They wont rotate and when a new wave drops, i'll only have to probably drop 30-45 dollars vs a booster box ($90) and then some. Did i mention that nothing will rotate out? Also having starwars swag makes me happy.
I do have to say that magic players blowing lots of money at my card shop keeps it open so that I can play table top there.
I'm sorry but if you can't afford it, then simply don't play or stop playing highly competitive events. MTG is a luxury hobby, it's as expensive as you let it be.
Complaining about it wont do anything, Wizard's has no control over what the secondary market of single sellers sets the prices at. The prices are the way they are on the singles market because people are willing to pay those prices. Want it to change? Stop buying singles and just buy MSRP from wizards, then learn to adapt to playing lower budget decks at causal events.
Again, if you are only playing MTG to "win" and can't find enjoyment without getting the first place prize at these super competitive events, then you're doing it wrong.
First of all you sound like a clown calling Magic a luxury hobby. Luxury hobbies include fox hunting, sipping fine wines ect. Its a game that sweaty men play in fold up chairs around other sweaty men.
Second of all, you are exceedingly naive to think that wizards doesn't control the prices of cards. They design sets to have expensive cards in them. The bloated prices in the 'inflated' second market is only a product of the demand exceeding the supply which is deliberately throttled by Wizards to sell more packs. The most efficient spell are almost exclusively rare in the recent history They took the whole mythic rarity straight from Yugioh's book to bump card sales up. The details of this is extensively documented through interviews of the Magic design staff. Therefor, buying more Battle for Zendicar lottery tickets isnt going to make magic any more affordable as the prices of singles are a product of the supply and demand fabrication.
Finally, you are wrong that you assume I am upset that I can't pay to win. I am upset because the price to pay-to-play has dramatically inflated recently. The enjoyment I get from magic centers around COMPETING with my opponents. Interacting with an equal opponent and trying your best to get an upper hand. Some of the best games i have played ended i losses, STIMULATING losses. Reminding players about game every other game rule in casual games or helplessly floundering with an inadequately equipped budget deck does not appeal to me. It is about as mentally stimulating as drooling in front of a TV like that.
If you are content to be a sheeple and continue to let your paycheck become Wizards growing profit margins, I guess have fun. As long as people like you exist, Magic will be Hasbro's golden example of how much dedicated fans can be abused without financial repercussions. On a lighter note, limited is still moderately competitive and tabletop is now cheaper than magic.
Good lord, if you can't afford it, don't play it. No need to bash it so much.
There's plenty of budget decks for Standard, no you won't win 1st place at an FNM, but you might win enough matches to get a booster pack or two, maybe to occasional FNM card if the gods smile upon you.
The point of MTG should be to play to have fun, not to anally obsess about winning a prize all the time. If you aren't playing for fun and to make friends/socialize, then what's the point.
I enjoy standard, because I enjoy having new sets. It's a puzzle to me, I'm given a bunch of pieces and am given the shot to make something that works well and with a self imposed budget of $50 per deck.
I've gotten some wins, I've gotten some losses, I have some FNM prize cards, but more importantly I've had fun, made friends, and enjoyed the format.
If you don't like it, that's cool. Don't piss all over the rest of us who do. I'll never understand why people take up a hobby that is known to be expensive, then have the audacity to complain about the cost!
This thread isn't a personal attack on people who play standard it's about our frustration over how the price of playing has almost doubled in two years. It goes without saying that our pay has not doubled to cover the increasing cost of standard.
The average competitive deck price is near $800. I hate wizards and I hate multicolor formats. This is like lorwyn shards all over again. I remember when teir 1 decks were $250-$300 and you could build non-budget RDW for $30. I think that was right before mirridon. That was right before maro became lead designer. Fancy that. I started playing magic as a kid and somehow its actually less affordable now that I have a job than just mowing lawns etc as a kid. I think its time to take another break from magic. Maybe this time I won't come crawling back. So anyone know a strategy game not owned by Hasbro?
X-Wing Minitures, bruh!
individual figures are cheaper than individual magic cards, they dont rotate, and they come painted.
Also it has less rules than warhammer (and more interesting lore)
When you nerf the format continuously but not symmetrically and you make the mana-bases easy to get, then of course people will play goodstuff.dec because that is the only way to play the format successfully.
Right now, if you are playing blue and don't have jace, you cannot compete against other blue decks that do.
If you are playing white and don't have gideon, you cannot compete against other white decks that do.
If you are playing green and don't have (etc).
Why is this the case? Because 90% of all standard cards are subpar garbage. People will not play with garbage.
If the sets weren't designed to be filled with garbage or so called "limited cards" the cost would come down and there would be more diversity. Wizard's likes multi colored formats because they print money, but restrictive mana bases make decks rely on solutions in color and less dependent on good stuff. I think this actually makes more room for brewing since you cant splash as easily for the MOST efficient answer reguardless of color. Scars/Inistrad was a format that had decent mana bases but the lands weren't quite good enough to make three colored shenanigans viable.
TL DR; scars/inistrad nostalgia
I have been a casual player of magic since 2003. I didnt really become competitive about it until summer 2010. I competed in lots of limited events 2008-2010. In my first constructed event, I made a budget standard deck and took it to my local store. I remember playing against the mind sculptor gauntlet and realizing that at my current job, i could never justify buying a playset of mindsculptors and thus i could not compete in standard. I was not the only one that felt this way. Multitudes did and card shops die and magic scenes devolved into RDW vs mindsculptor.deck. Scars of Mirrodon brought a slew of powerful strategies and the banning of mindsculptor brought the price of playing standard down significantly. I have played standard competitively since the end of scars zendikar block with some successes at states events and FNM.
It has been a good few years, but as we all know, Magic is where our paychecks to die. That has never been more true than now. The cost of standard decks is topping the price of entry during the mindsculptor era. I can not and will not be able to afford to play standard if this trend of price climb continues. When standard devolves into goodstuff.format the players get hurt but Wizards sells lots of booster packs (65 rares in a 75 list = 65 booster packs ripped + countless others filled with bin rares). You can compare the pro tour decklists from this month to Worlds 2008 <http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds08/top-standard-decklists> Lorwyn/Shards was not cheap to play in for anyone who played back then, but the cost of entry was about half of what it is now. This format is toxically expensive and this is due entirely to Hasbro's goal to push the limits on sales in any way possible to increase their profits. They have yet to see a drop off in the player base and are setting sales records with each new release. I have reached my breaking point as far as standard is concerned. Unfortunately, you can't ban one card to fix the over inflated cost of decks. The problem is systemic throughout the whole format. Maybe players will stop playing much like in the mindsculptor era fed up with the cost of playing. Hasbro might change its tactic in response to a drop off in the player base, but until then its eternal formats like edh and modern from now on.
Here is a list that my brother and I have been tooling around with. Its more of a tokens strategy but its more the direction we would like to go with a mentor list. It still needs lots of work though
Here is an Abzan Tempo lest that I have been tweaking for a bit. It runs a lower creature density than you might find in other Abzan Aggro lists, but it makes up for it with the power of the prowess creatures that take over the game if un-answered aka Seeker of the Way and Monastery Mentor. The different combat tricks make people play cautiously or get ruined. God's Willing, valorous stance, and dromoka's command protect the creatures from the high removal density and help you maintain your tempo game. Generally I use one creature to race my opponents while playing reactive cards and gaining a little life. Seeker of the Way is hands down the most consistant threat in this list with its life gain and ability to hit for obscene amounts of damage after prowess triggers. Using dromoka's command with it on the field is pretty much living the dream. Seige Rhino is in here despite its lack of synergy with the rest of the deck because its MFing Siege Rhino (plus its invaluable in the aggro matchup). There are double Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoths to deal with any BB mana requirement while having access to plenty of White mana (a must to operate smoothly) The list has learning curve is a little steeper than a normal Abzan agro list but it’s very rewarding. Against Aggro
The deck plays some early defense and behaves more like a midrange list. Thoughtsieze, and Den Protector to some extent are weak in this match up. Drown in Sorrow shores up this matchup nicely as almost every creature is drown resistant. Duress is rather effective against burn/token lists. The deck seems to be favored in this matchup. Against Midrange
The main deck is rather effective against Midrange (with the exception of Sidisi Whip and hence the anafenza in the board). Every card with multiple modes are active and very useful. Myth Realized and Monetary mentor will take over the game is they are properly protected. Post board, I guess thoughtseize comes in along with a Hero’s Downfall and Dromoka’s Command depending on how much you feel you need them. Put anafenza in if you see any deathmist shenanigans. Put in Crux if you smell dragons for MAXIMUM OVER-TROLL. Take cards out at your own discretion in these matchups. Uxx Control
This is a hard match up but the addition of den protector shores it up a bit game 1. Myth Realized dodges board wipes and can hide until you have protection for it. Monastary Mentor is a bit of a liability in this matchup but can still steal games that you had no business winning and Dromoka’s Command is useless. Post-Board, Shred their hand with 4x Thoughtsieze and 3x Duress (also nets you a lot of cheap prowess triggers). Make Oujitai Suck it with 2x self-inflicted wounds and crux.
Used to run Myth Realized in the list but it has been underperforming since there are less straight up board whipes in the meta and more spot removal.
Here is an Abzan Tempo lest that I have been tweaking for a bit. It runs a lower creature density than you might find in other Abzan Aggro lists, but it makes up for it with the power of the prowess creatures that take over the game if un-answered aka Seeker of the Way, Monastery Mentor, and Myth Realized. The different combat tricks make people play cautiously or get ruined. Generally I use one creature to race my opponents while playing reactive cards and gaining a little life. Seeker of the Way is hands down the most powerful card in this list. Seige Rhino is in here despite its lack of synergy with the rest of the deck because its MFing Siege Rhino (plus its invaluable in the aggro matchup). There are double Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoths to deal with any BB mana requirement while having access to plenty of White mana (a must to operate smoothly) The list has learning curve is a little steeper than a normal Abzan agro list but it’s very rewarding. Against Aggro
The deck plays some early defense and behaves more like a midrange list. Myth Realized, Thoughtsieze, and Den Protector to some extent are weak in this match up. Drown in Sorrow shores up this matchup nicely as almost every creature is drown resistant. Duress is rather effective against burn/token lists. The deck seems to be favored in this matchup. Against Midrange
The main deck is rather effective against Midrange (with the exception of Sidisi Whip and hence the anafenza in the board). Every card with multiple modes are active and very useful. Myth Realized and Monetary mentor will take over the game is they are properly protected. Post board, I guess thoughtseize comes in along with a Hero’s Downfall and Dromoka’s Command depending on how much you feel you need them. Put anafenza in if you see any deathmist shenanigans. Put in Crux if you smell dragons for MAXIMUM OVER-TROLL. Take cards out at your own discretion in these matchups. Uxx Control
This is a hard match up but the addition of den protector shores it up a bit game 1. Myth Realized dodges board wipes and can hide until you have protection for it. Monastary Mentor is a bit of a liability in this matchup but can still steal games that you had no business winning and Dromoka’s Command is useless. Post-Board, Shred their hand with 4x Thoughtsieze and 3x Duress (also nets you a lot of cheap prowess triggers). Make Oujitai Suck it with 2x self-inflicted wounds and crux.
Sorry Tiemuu, you just talking about problems and don't give solutions, and the way you say thing is impolite and annoying, so I prefer just to ignore you and try to find solutions and discuss with other people.
So sayeth starcitygames.com
wait till they make their money and then it will be overhyped
though in its defense it makes a nice anti-aggro wall
Should we play with our hands splayed out on the table? If bluffing was overrated, wouldnt matter.
i'd probably pay 6 dollars with the useless chaff thats filling up the set but i would not be opposed to paying 10-12 if it had more substance like the the first MM print run. I understand that Wasteland, force of will, top ect are valuable cards and will probably remain so but there wizards is knowingly filling the packs with .50-3 dollar cards in the rare slot of packs that retail at $15.
On the other hand, I am the guy who is still butthurt about Mythic Rares being introduced in Shards and losing foils in Lorwyn block.
I have spent approximately 250 (a fraction of the price of a standard deck) on figures to this date and I have all of the figures i could want to use in the foreseeable future. They wont rotate and when a new wave drops, i'll only have to probably drop 30-45 dollars vs a booster box ($90) and then some. Did i mention that nothing will rotate out? Also having starwars swag makes me happy.
I do have to say that magic players blowing lots of money at my card shop keeps it open so that I can play table top there.
First of all you sound like a clown calling Magic a luxury hobby. Luxury hobbies include fox hunting, sipping fine wines ect. Its a game that sweaty men play in fold up chairs around other sweaty men.
Second of all, you are exceedingly naive to think that wizards doesn't control the prices of cards. They design sets to have expensive cards in them. The bloated prices in the 'inflated' second market is only a product of the demand exceeding the supply which is deliberately throttled by Wizards to sell more packs. The most efficient spell are almost exclusively rare in the recent history They took the whole mythic rarity straight from Yugioh's book to bump card sales up. The details of this is extensively documented through interviews of the Magic design staff. Therefor, buying more Battle for Zendicar lottery tickets isnt going to make magic any more affordable as the prices of singles are a product of the supply and demand fabrication.
Finally, you are wrong that you assume I am upset that I can't pay to win. I am upset because the price to pay-to-play has dramatically inflated recently. The enjoyment I get from magic centers around COMPETING with my opponents. Interacting with an equal opponent and trying your best to get an upper hand. Some of the best games i have played ended i losses, STIMULATING losses. Reminding players about game every other game rule in casual games or helplessly floundering with an inadequately equipped budget deck does not appeal to me. It is about as mentally stimulating as drooling in front of a TV like that.
If you are content to be a sheeple and continue to let your paycheck become Wizards growing profit margins, I guess have fun. As long as people like you exist, Magic will be Hasbro's golden example of how much dedicated fans can be abused without financial repercussions. On a lighter note, limited is still moderately competitive and tabletop is now cheaper than magic.
This thread isn't a personal attack on people who play standard it's about our frustration over how the price of playing has almost doubled in two years. It goes without saying that our pay has not doubled to cover the increasing cost of standard.
X-Wing Minitures, bruh!
individual figures are cheaper than individual magic cards, they dont rotate, and they come painted.
Also it has less rules than warhammer (and more interesting lore)
If the sets weren't designed to be filled with garbage or so called "limited cards" the cost would come down and there would be more diversity. Wizard's likes multi colored formats because they print money, but restrictive mana bases make decks rely on solutions in color and less dependent on good stuff. I think this actually makes more room for brewing since you cant splash as easily for the MOST efficient answer reguardless of color. Scars/Inistrad was a format that had decent mana bases but the lands weren't quite good enough to make three colored shenanigans viable.
TL DR; scars/inistrad nostalgia
It has been a good few years, but as we all know, Magic is where our paychecks to die. That has never been more true than now. The cost of standard decks is topping the price of entry during the mindsculptor era. I can not and will not be able to afford to play standard if this trend of price climb continues. When standard devolves into goodstuff.format the players get hurt but Wizards sells lots of booster packs (65 rares in a 75 list = 65 booster packs ripped + countless others filled with bin rares). You can compare the pro tour decklists from this month to Worlds 2008 <http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds08/top-standard-decklists> Lorwyn/Shards was not cheap to play in for anyone who played back then, but the cost of entry was about half of what it is now. This format is toxically expensive and this is due entirely to Hasbro's goal to push the limits on sales in any way possible to increase their profits. They have yet to see a drop off in the player base and are setting sales records with each new release. I have reached my breaking point as far as standard is concerned. Unfortunately, you can't ban one card to fix the over inflated cost of decks. The problem is systemic throughout the whole format. Maybe players will stop playing much like in the mindsculptor era fed up with the cost of playing. Hasbro might change its tactic in response to a drop off in the player base, but until then its eternal formats like edh and modern from now on.
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Seeker of the Way
Planeswakers (2)
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Enchantments (3)
3 Myth Realized
Sorceries (5)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Treasure Cruise
Instants (17)
4 Anticipate
2 Negate
3 Raise the Alarm
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
2 Secure the Wastes
2 Ojutai's Command
Lands (25)
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
3 Swamp
5 Plains
3 Temple of Silence
4 Flooded Strand
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Temple of Deceit
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
2 Duress
2 Bile Blight
1 Profaner of the Dead
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Arashin Cleric
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Don't bump your threads. --Lugger
Against Aggro
The deck plays some early defense and behaves more like a midrange list. Thoughtsieze, and Den Protector to some extent are weak in this match up. Drown in Sorrow shores up this matchup nicely as almost every creature is drown resistant. Duress is rather effective against burn/token lists. The deck seems to be favored in this matchup.
Against Midrange
The main deck is rather effective against Midrange (with the exception of Sidisi Whip and hence the anafenza in the board). Every card with multiple modes are active and very useful. Myth Realized and Monetary mentor will take over the game is they are properly protected. Post board, I guess thoughtseize comes in along with a Hero’s Downfall and Dromoka’s Command depending on how much you feel you need them. Put anafenza in if you see any deathmist shenanigans. Put in Crux if you smell dragons for MAXIMUM OVER-TROLL. Take cards out at your own discretion in these matchups.
Uxx Control
This is a hard match up but the addition of den protector shores it up a bit game 1. Myth Realized dodges board wipes and can hide until you have protection for it. Monastary Mentor is a bit of a liability in this matchup but can still steal games that you had no business winning and Dromoka’s Command is useless. Post-Board, Shred their hand with 4x Thoughtsieze and 3x Duress (also nets you a lot of cheap prowess triggers). Make Oujitai Suck it with 2x self-inflicted wounds and crux.
Used to run Myth Realized in the list but it has been underperforming since there are less straight up board whipes in the meta and more spot removal.
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Den Protector
4 Siege Rhino
Non-Creature (18)
2 Valorous Stance
1 Ultimate Price
3 Abzan Charm
2 Thoughtseize
3 Gods Willing
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Defiant Strike
1 Murderous Cut
3 Forest
5 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Temple of Silence
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dromoka's Command
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Duress
1 Crux of Fate
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
Against Aggro
The deck plays some early defense and behaves more like a midrange list. Myth Realized, Thoughtsieze, and Den Protector to some extent are weak in this match up. Drown in Sorrow shores up this matchup nicely as almost every creature is drown resistant. Duress is rather effective against burn/token lists. The deck seems to be favored in this matchup.
Against Midrange
The main deck is rather effective against Midrange (with the exception of Sidisi Whip and hence the anafenza in the board). Every card with multiple modes are active and very useful. Myth Realized and Monetary mentor will take over the game is they are properly protected. Post board, I guess thoughtseize comes in along with a Hero’s Downfall and Dromoka’s Command depending on how much you feel you need them. Put anafenza in if you see any deathmist shenanigans. Put in Crux if you smell dragons for MAXIMUM OVER-TROLL. Take cards out at your own discretion in these matchups.
Uxx Control
This is a hard match up but the addition of den protector shores it up a bit game 1. Myth Realized dodges board wipes and can hide until you have protection for it. Monastary Mentor is a bit of a liability in this matchup but can still steal games that you had no business winning and Dromoka’s Command is useless. Post-Board, Shred their hand with 4x Thoughtsieze and 3x Duress (also nets you a lot of cheap prowess triggers). Make Oujitai Suck it with 2x self-inflicted wounds and crux.
4 Warden of the First Tree
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Den Protector
4 Siege Rhino
Non-Creature (18)
2 Valorous Stance
1 Ultimate Price
2 Myth Realized
3 Abzan Charm
2 Thoughtseize
2 Gods Willing
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Defiant Strike
3 Forest
5 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Temple of Silence
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dromoka's Command
3 Drown in Sorrow
3 Duress
1 Crux of Fate
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
/whyistoppedpostinginthisthread