I had dropped maelstrom pulse from my sideboard but last night ran into uw control with leyline of sanctity and stony silence.
G1 I faced jace aot into gideon into elspeth suns champ. I had tezz aob on t3 so I animate and drop jace from 5 counters to 1, then he gideons so I animate again and deal 8 to gideon (jace shrinkage) while also establishing combo. I decide to just tick tezz back up to 4 and block any elspeth soldier attacks with tokens - ill get there before she ultimates. I draw a needle for jace finally, he draws dsphere and targets foundry instead of tezz - punt. Untap ultimate gg although I think I win with the needle even if he hits tez.
G2 im sideboarding and wonder about bringing in 4 thoughtseize vs a deck that might have leylines. I keep 6 with 2 thoughtseizes and he t0 leylines. I just scoop and go to g3
G3 opening hand has decay and stuff. He goes t4 leyline t6 stony and I feel like its a cryptic to bounce in response to decay. I put combo out and other stuff waiting for some way to force through the decay. He cliques me so I decay and make 5 tokens, aether grid down the clique (which is also useless vs stony if leyline is out). He rips dsphere next turn for tokens and thats that.
So my point or problem is decks w stony and leyline. Rw prison and uwx control - does pulse help enough? Do we bring in thoughtseizes or grid?
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Jul 25, 2017You might be farther ahead with some rationale on the weird choices.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
I don't think anyone is playing thirst for knowledge in this deck, it has been pretty much completely nuked by Whir, and serum visions gets in because its a turn 1 play and dirt cheap to sneak in around resolving other cards. while thirst is nice in a control/topdeck game 3 mana is a lot in most other situations (when we'd ideally be whirring). I always thought the card would be like peanut butter to thopter/sword's jam but in practice I just never saw it played and when I tried it briefly it was clunk.
4/2 foundry/sword split seems unusual. I think the standard is 3/2 then you move up to 4/3 if you're more "all in" on the combo or playing less tutoring/filtering.
Sideboard - flaying tendrils seems a little random but I assume it has a specific purpose? Is it better vs creature decks than say ghirapur aether grid? And I've often thought of putting fatal push in the side along with the discard, and then just bringing in push or thoughtseize depending if its creature or combo/control deck. It just seems like a pretty low impact approach for a deck that runs a tonne of tutoring/filtering. Silver bullets should be coming in as we have a higher chance to hit them - and you already have to dedicate some "whatever" spots to abrupt decay a lot of the time just to fight stony silence.
Jul 24, 2017BadMcFadden posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)I was wondering if something like this would be relevant for modern if it got printed:Posted in: Modern
1g - prismatic destiny
All nonbasic lands lose all other abilities and gain tap to add one mana of any colour to your mana pool.
Symmetrical so can fix mana but nukes all specialty lands in one fell swoop. Temple tron manlands gavony quarter cavern etc.
Like a fair blood moon
Jul 24, 2017Consensus was bontus is a budget replacement for damnation. Nobody believes its actually a better card just a servicable replacement for money purposes. Not supposed to talk budget options here so that was the end of that.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
I dont think any other hou cards fit the deck - control might look at supreme will and nimble obstructionist but I dont think either goes in ub tezz.
Jul 24, 2017to me the best way to beat valakut is time sieve but you need some luck to get there before they do. Alternatively bridge and witchbane orb but then you still have to win which gives them even more turns to find a disenchant.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
In either scenario it feels like if they draw a grudge/grip we're probably not winning. Picking which avenue to go for has to be a judgment call based on your hand and theirs - thoughtseize and muddle can help somewhat - but basically the risk is you put thoptersword out and cant get sieve in time, or you bridge and orb and then need more time to actually kill them (increasing odds they nuke your orb).
Its a pretty bad matchup no matter what but I think thats what it boils down to. If they draw and resolve one artifact removal you are like 90% to lose. Fight that with thoughtseize and muddle and jar - but if they are on krosan grip mudle and jar dont help
Ive been trying tez the seeker. Think of it as a 5th sorcery speed mana intensive whir. No results yet - ive had it thoughtseized, ive died with it stranded uncastable, and ive drawn it when I had combo out but couldnt risk tapping 5 for it just to get stubborn denialed or to get the tutored bridge k-commanded. But out of the board for grindy matches seems decent.
On welding jar - this keeps doing nothing for me. When I lean on it I get shatterstormed or krosan gripped. Last night I am facing some silly rakdos eldrazi deck - he has tks out so I tezz and animate sword with a jar figuring worst case he plays smasher and trades it for a jar and I lose tez. Yeah, he terminates and I once again cant use jar. In another game I had explosives for zero where I mootly used jar to save a bauble :s
Good vs decay and kcommand I guess so play it to the extent those cards are problems - although kc decks may have shatterstorm too
Jul 23, 2017People have talked about running a fourth tezz aob in board instead of herald, I guess you could do seeker but man is his plus ability useless. Unless im missing something youd have to nuke your bridge with a foundry in order to swing with his ultimate - not impossible but introduces complication/risk.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
As a tutor for bridge or bullets I like it I just wish the untap artifact ability could be good for something. Maybe the tutor is so good that getting anything else is just gravy
Jul 23, 2017Decklist below but I'm still liking 2 muddle 2 chromatic sphere 2 lili 0 prism. I'm trying now to focus more on getting a sideboard that does what I want it to. Board continues to feel like an unfocused experiment.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
I'm mainly trying to figure out how many slots I need to dedicate towards stony silence and rest in peace. I think decay is the flat out best answer to these, and its versatile against some of the random things (ad nauseum, mine/dictate in taking turns, etc) and with muddles I get some slow virtual copies to work with which is great.
That being said, grid can beat stony and can also do very good work versus creature decks - elves, vizier company, affinity (kinda), lingering souls. I think its probably correct to have 1 grid - not sure its worth a steam vents for the one sb card but I'm wary of t2 stony and sitting there with a grid stranded because I was counting on a star/opal for the red. I don't know if I bring grid in vs UWx control decks - probably not?
Maelstrom Pulse: I am probably dropping this for another decay. I can needle planeswalkers and liliana/bridge big creatures. The extra mana over decay has been murder sometimes, and vs UWx control my hopes of resolving it are near-zero. The only reason I would run it is fear of leyline of the void - but most people play relic/spellbomb/surgical. I could also see using echoing truth instead of pulse for more flexibility if I wanted some kind of true "catch all" (save our own cards from destruction, instant speed, tutorable with muddle, can be removal with discard)
Thoughtseize: I run these for combo/control decks but they are also worth something in the fight vs stony/rip on turn 1. Notably UWx control.
Herald of Anguish: I don't consider this worth anything vs stony silence and am probably cutting it too. I tried, but way too often I go "nice stony, here's a t4 herald" and they go "cool, path it". People simply don't cut all their removal so herald remains a liability esp vs path decks which would be most stony decks.
So I think where I'd go next is 2x decay, 1x grid, 4x thoughtseize and maybe 1x echoing truth. It's possible that its completely moronic to run truth over pulse though.
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards // 23 Artifact
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Time Sieve
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Mox Opal
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Pithing Needle
2 Chromatic Star
1 Welding Jar
// 6 Instant
4 Whir of Invention
2 Muddle the Mixture
// 21 Land
4 Polluted Delta
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Watery Grave
2 Flooded Strand
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Spire of Industry
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
// 5 Planeswalker
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Liliana of the Veil
// 5 Sorcery
4 Serum Visions
1 Collective Brutality
// 15 Sideboard
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Torpor Orb
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Echoing Truth
Jul 22, 2017I go back and forth on capsule but once I added 2 lilianas I haven't looked back.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Crazy sequence I just played out online vs BTL/Gifts deck. I have t1 bauble t2 foundry t3 whir for sword. He ramps into BTL for fracturing gust. I untap and tezzeret hitting an opal. I have 2 more whirs in hand so I'll just whir for foundry whir for sieve all else being equal sac the bauble to recur sword and go infinite. He ramps again and then casts gifts ungiven. I'm like ok I'll whir for cage NBD.
his piles are:
elesh norn, ashen rider, ancient grudge, unburial rites :S
My hand is 2 whirs and an abrupt decay (brought in for stony). I'm not sure what to do here. He has 7 mana but only 1 black. Every card looks horrific and will dismantle combo with ease even through 2 whirs. I decide to give him rites and rider figuring he'll rites for norn, I'll whir for cage, he'll grudge cage - and then I'm pretty much boned unless I rip a liliana (I boarded one out because of g1 lingering souls os only 1 in deck).
EDIT: Just realized if I whir and cage in resp to rites for norn it comes straight into play and he wont be able to flashback grudge. Made the correct call without realizing it. Rites in hand and grudge in gy lets cage kill both cards completely leaving him with an 8 mana vindicate that I can chump all day long
Fortunately he derps it so hard. Plays fetch for black source, casts rider targeting the 5 counter tezzeret... I shrug, whir for sieve, untap sac bauble to get sword back and gg.
But anyone think that's the best split on the gifts pile? Or should I put rider+grudge in the yard and immediately whir for cage to disable both flashbacks? He can then cast norn guaranteed and I'll have to find an out to it. I would have a 5 counter tez but as I say my only outs are I think 2x pulse 1x liliana, a bridge would buy me time.
Jul 22, 2017one plating sounds reasonable if you're running cranes, but even with cranes and foundries I'd be worried about it sitting there doing nothing too often. It's also pretty much overkill if you've put the combo out. I'd also be a bit wary of running skirge - it turns on all of their removal at no value, and if you don't have a plating or tezz its a pretty underwhelming threat.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Just important to keep in mind the worst cases for cards as well as the christmaslands. When needle/cage are useless they only cost 1 mana so they could help enable a fast whir/opal still, and when they are good they are often gamebreaking (Esp cage). Plating has a lower floor at 2cmc do-nothing, and a much riskier upside in that it doesn't do anything even ifyou have crane/skirge if they have removal -w hich they probably will since we run so few (usually zero) targetable threats.
Jul 21, 2017No idea if its common tech but last night I had a valakut player hit me with two krosan grips while I had a jar out :/ not much you can do about that card and imo scapeshift is mostly about sieve combo. You might be able to contain them with liliana or bridge for titans and witchbane for valakut but you're always one disenchant away from gg and if they really do play multiple krosan grip thats pretty roughPosted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Jul 21, 2017Turn one chalice on one is "really easy" with 1 chalice, 1 guide, and 4 gemstone caverns? And there are 5 total zero mana opal enablers so you'd need 2/5 plus opal for that to be an avenue. Sounds more like christmasland than really easy. Ditto for turn 2 tezz animating a prism. Im sure it happens but easily? I doubt that very highly.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Also firing off card disadvantage for temporary mana should make it harder to get five mana sources for time sieve. I dont doubt you can get thoptersword online turn two but taping out for two fliers per turn after that is not going to beat that many decks. I hope someone else believes in that approach enough to try it and validate your enthusiasm but at a glance the probabilities on those kiler openings hapening, let alone winning games seem pretty low.
Jul 20, 2017Regarding vulnerability to discard - that and bad topdecks were a problem for me too. Moving off discard myself and on to 4 serums made a big impact and I think if you drop prisms and welding jars for chromatic spheres and muddles youll find it makes things even smoother. When nearly every nonland card is a cantrip, tutor, or combo piece things go pretty consistently smooth.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Also starting to get a feel for matchups - what do people think of our odds versus eldrazi tron? Seems rough to me unless they draw a hand that lines up well - no disruption vs fast combo, or only seer/smasher/reshaper vs bridge. Its a tall order to needle karn and ballista and get a bridge to lock down their beaters while also getting combo online past relic/all is dust/ulamog :S Would we say this is a bad match overall?
Jul 20, 2017I always thought of the "grindy" version being based on dropping opals and prisms in favour of liliana, iok, push. I guess there's a spectrum where on one extreme you play gemstone caverns and spirit guides while on the other its some sort of ub bridge control deck in no rush to assemble anything.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
For molz - what do you think about welding jar md? Does it actually stop enough game 1 cards? Its like kcommand, decay, and pridemage basically - maybe fatal push if you use tezz minus. I actually think it might be better to drop jar and bring in a spellskite out of the board. A lot of times my stuff is getting bounced (cryptic) exiled (ulamog, dsphere) or flickered (wisp) where jar doesnt help. Skite can also eat decay and is a god card vs burn and some random stuff like bogles and kiki decks. I just dont like skite md because itll eat every terminate path push that would otherwise be dead.
I still wish there was a better third option to win with - but for now I think the best we can do is uber streamline for thopter sword sieve with tez as a backup, and dedicate the rest of the deck to silver bullets (cage, orb, needle) and beating hate (thoughtseize, muddle, decay, pulse)
One last thought - lotv seems like a necvessary evil. While shes not actually a win con she usually draws fire like crazy allowing us to slip through other cards. Her plus lets them discard stranded removal which sucks, but her ult is an out to lots of problems and her minus is an out to norn/emperion.
Jul 19, 2017I've put in a few more matches online and just want to say that I continue to be happy with 2x muddle the mixture. I've used it to protect combo pieces from kcommand/cryptic and resolve them through stubborn denial/negate. And while it hasn't come up yet I like the fact that I can transmute it for abrupt decay post-sb as well as counter more targeted post-sb hate like disenchant, revelry, and wear. And I am sure if I play long enough I'll find a scenario where I transmute it for a brutality to drain the last 2 points of life off someone. Someone a few pages back was running a "5th whir" with infernal tutor and muddle can play that role when needed while also being a decent piece of interaction the rest of the time. I'd recommend giving it a shot.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Another nice switch has been dropping prisms for chromatic stars. These play a lot like baubles where I fire it down early to enable opal/whir and later on I can cash out for a card. I also like that I can sac to foundry for a chump block without losing cards, and that it sometimes allows me to juggle mana/life total to get a whir off and then cast a liliana. It's also often a better topdeck than bauble since it cycles immediately for 1 mana (effectively) whereas bauble we pass turn and wait to get the card back. And while the synergy isn't mindblowing, its possible to bauble your deck, see a muddle, crack the star and then draw the muddle to counter something. Christmasland exists right? Finally I'd just point out that we are loaded on the 2 drop slot so swapping some for 1 drops feels pretty good too. 1 often means 0 when you're casting it to enable a bauble as well.
I took the advice above and dropped my 2 jars, moving 1 to the board. When all is said and done this is what my deck is at the moment:
The Elixir is a test I haven't actually boarded in yet. Probably crap, but theoretically does work vs burn and mill and maybe grindy matches (recycle whirs, walkers, decays, destroyed combo pieces). Good chance it should just be another collective brutality.
Jul 19, 2017Game one is the one you can most commonly win with straight up thoptersword. I would not dilute the maindeck too much so if you add chalice you presumably drop the silver bullets like relic needle cage spellbomb. Did you gain enough points in chalice matches to make up for the loss of those cards? I doubt it since they are high impact whir targets that also fuel whir and opal. Cage in particular has been very good for me md - hitting snapcaster chord and company is solid and randomly hurting dredge goryos gifts storm etc. Whirring in response to stuff can also actually generate card advantage.Posted in: Developing Competitive (Modern)
Ive mentioned before that my experience with 4 md chalice in the rw prison deck was actively bad. Chalice on one mostly strands path bolt and push and mid-game discard. All things tez isnt particularly worried about. On two you can get in trouble drawing prisms brutalities and combo pieces that get stranded (yes you can bin your sword - still not great). Out of the board I get it because you are targetting specific decks that you know will suffer greatly and generally hit their hate cards in the same move)(revelry in burn, natures claim in tron). At that point the nuisance you cause yourself is worth it.
But youre going to feel prety bad w chalice on 2 and merfolk slams a cavern while you sit there with foundry or sieve in hand. Blind chalice is not good when there is a risk it can seriously hinder your own deck. Eldrazi and rw prison run almost no 1 drops or 2 drops in order to get away with md chalice. We dont have that luxury
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