Deck idea is interesting, but I think it could differentiate itself from decks like Affinity of Tezz Control by running vehicles like Smuggler's Copter and Heart of Kiran; then enchanting them with Ensoul Artifact.
Our main board lists are identical, i just dont run the Spatial Contortions maindeck and in their place i have the rocks. My meta is real slow though, i did the numbers recently but my local meta is something like 25% Aggro (Burn, Affinity, Dredge) 25% Combo/Ramp (Eldrazi, Tron, Valakut, Living End) and 50% Fair decks (Grixis, UWR, GBx, URx, Hatebears, Esper, UW) you get my drift. My meta is super favorable to the ramp decks, i havent played Jund in 2 months despite having it sleeved and ready to play at a moment's notice. Tron is where i want to be right now, if i move to a new deck it will have to be something like a Through the Breach deck or a Loam deck.
Whoa. What's with the Sword spike? UB Tezz speculation?
I mentioned before the bannings that the format would become favorable to UB Tezz soon. It can beat up the fair decks and the fast decks. It has an okay time against the big mana decks as well. However i would be looking at Tezzeret himself, Ensnaring Bridge or Mox Opal for gains.
I recently acquired a u tron deck and I've been having pretty good records. It feels like the worst matchup by far is infect. However a few days ago I got 2 chalices to combat that and burn (mostly). I've been running solemn and he feels pretty solid in most matchups, but in the very fast aggro games I feel that thought-knot is superior. I'm going to play tonight and the meta in my lgs is very diverse, with just burn and infect showing up almost every time. My list is as follows:
What is the general consensus on Remand? I feel forced to run this card, is there any way to not run it and do well? I find more often than not it does nothing in my hand.
There are a choice few cards you can spec for pre order. I ordered a playset of Sram, Senior Edificer, and with priority shipping, was still under 10 bucks. Cards like Fatal Push, and Baral on the other hand seem over priced at the moment. Last I check Fatal Push was over 3.50 through CFB, and Baral was over 7. This set will be opened a ton due to the chase Inventions along with people just hoping to open certain powerful cards. 3.50 for an in print uncommon seems crazy.
Edit: As for Devotion cards getting a "push" in price due to FP, I doubt it. While the deck does greatly benefit from turn one removal, I can't see Phyrexian Obliterator benefiting. Obliterator was the go to four drop until Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet came out. Not only is Kalitas generally better, but he is also cheaper. Geralf's Messenger could see a bit of a bump, but not everyone plays him. I do have to say, I'm rather happy so many seem to be thinking of Black Devotion this spoiler season.
Im curious, what's your rationale for the Sram spec? I play Modern Bogles and I've been planning on replacing 1 or 2 Kor Spiritdancer with him, but I couldn't think of any other places where he'd see play. Especially because of Spiritdancer's existence and the fact that it does almost the same job except Sram is legendary and Kor is not. However, I don't follow the standard meta, so I'm thinking in terms of Modern, eternal formats, and edh.
On another note, I'm expecting Push to end up being a glorified Aether Hub as far as pre-orders go. Compared to Hub, I think it'll see immediate play in non-rotating formats, but by the time it rotates out of standard, there will be enough in circulation that they can be had for a much more reasonable price. However, foils may be a smart pickup after pre-release through the midway point of A.Revolt's lifecycle, depending on what they're going for. For example,Gurmag Angler comes to mind as a recent card that sees eternal play and foils are still around $10 for a common.
Sram slots right into Modern Cheeri0s. The deck has needed another Puresteel Paladin for some time, and we finally got him. The deck now has 8 engines, which should make it much more consistent. With Paladin, pre turn four kills where possible, but it could be hard to do because of the lack of engines.
I hadn't even thought of Bogles, though that may help with his price after a while. Does Bogles want another Spiritdancer?
I have Bogles sleeved up for my gauntlet, as often as i am playing it i hardly ever want to see any creature that dies to removal. I mostly just care about jaming a Scout/Bogle and being fast. It could help but i think it wouldnt be run as more than a 1 or 2 of. Spiritdancer is better, it turns your Umbras into permanent Giant Growths that save it after a kill spell. Sram doesnt do that. Sram will always just sit there to let you draw and in that situation, Spiritdancer is just better.
So, could we have a big discussion about Why the hell play White in Modern right now except than Rest In Peace/Path To Exile/Stony Silence and some other sideboard cards? Even Path To Exile is replaceable by a better in the early and worse in the late game tool black colour pie just received in Fatal Push. You can just replace White with Black and add this new card and call it a day, and your deck will be stronger in all aspects .
Instead, We spent so much time complaining about Splinter Twin, that if a White mage comes in here and watches all of the people complaining about Twin, he will be laughing for an hour. Instead, white mages a-la Craig Wescoe school did not complain all that much, despite them needing a HUGE BOOST to compete in an ever-pumping metagame when seeing their decks hitting rock bottom.
The time to unban Stoneforge Mystic is now(or will be in April, if Fatal Push proves itself as a Modern Powerhouse, and make no mistakes, it will. White hit the bottom and sucks right now, in my opinion, or again we will all see it sucking after February. A deck like White Weenies or Mono White Control or even GW Hatebears (or even a White based Control deck) is absolutely in the worst power level of a deck you can find in Modern, and literally it does not even compete in the metagame atm.
To add to this, when the spoilers season ends, I will change my vote in the Bans/Unbans Poll/Thread, because Fatal Push changed things in an extreme way I did not expect. Resulting in a
Become Immense should be OFF the table. Expect Zooicide to drop to developing competitive with a Become Immense ban and the new Fatal Push and Infect into the tier 2 region for good. UR Prowess will have strong headaches with the new card as well. And even if you consider this a good shift in the metagame(which is not, Tron could become the deck to beat and you will all be singing a different tune then), a possible Become Immense ban will make people cash out from Modern. Not sure we want this. We MUST wait to see if Fatal Push keeps pump decks in bay, and I am certain it will.
Sam Black states in his last article:
Sam Black: After Fatal Push, I don't think I am playing Death's Shadow again, and the choice will be between Lantern Control and something else I can not even predict right now, because the entire metagame is different(with the Fatal Push print)
I tend to agree with your posts but Stoneforge should NOT come back especially now. We do not know how the format will look or what Push will do to the format. As soon as i saw Push spoiled i thought, "Wow, thats incredible. I want to play that card. Oh wait. *****. This is real good. It hits almost everything. Even every threat in my Jund deck. Oh crap. It hits everything in my Jund deck." i can only imagine how many players looked at it and imagined their deck getting smacked around by that card. Maybe its powerful and maybe the format is better for it and maybe more interaction will become the norm, but adding Stoneforge AND Push at the same time seems crazy to me.
Imagine a BWx deck, Junk, Esper, or just Orzhov, with Stoneforge Mystic, Swords, Batterskull, Bitterblossom, hand disruption, Path, Push, Lingering Souls and a mean SB. Mmmmmmmm.
As of late, i havent been playing Jund due to the local metagame. This just makes me want to stay away from Jund until they get a new toy. I could sleeve Abzan but playing a slower deck with creatures doesnt FEEL like where i want to be going forward. Especially since Tron is going to be a great metagame choice. If i was on Tron right now i would be jumping for joy. UR Prowess, Infect, Suicide, Affinity, decks playing creatures are going to become rarer. Tron will eat up all the Push decks. But maybe we enter a crazy situation where it cycles back to small creature aggro. Crazy how a metagame works.
Push makes the decks it fits into better against the decks they were already slightly favored in and tips the scale. It makes their poor matchups better choices (Tron, Eldrazi, Lantern) because their predator's are suppressed by their favorite matchup. But maybe it will bring balance to the force.
Push WILL slow the format down. The fast decks will still exist but will either be a metachoice to Tron/Eldrazi/Lantern or just be fewer in number.
Has anyone mentioned UB Tezzeret got a great card? Because they can win from Thopter/Sword to beat Push AND play Push, which is noteworthy.
I feel the Infect and UR Prowess and Zooicide will be byes for all kind of black control decks. @Bfrie Infect will easily be 80/20 matchup no and the rest of those will be a lot more better than before. No Mutagenic Growth to trigger prowess acting as a Mental Misstep nonsense anymore!
Agreed. My local meta has shifted towards midrange decks and aggro. Delver, Burn, Infect, Affinity, Zoo, UR Prowess, im going to throw some in Jund when they release, will test MD and probably end up with a split in SB. I havent played Jund locally in months as there are lots of other BGx decks and i have been running UR Breach. Im excited to sleeve my Goyfs again. But maybe this makes Jund go back to rocking Tasigur as a way to deal with other Fatal Push decks. Its going to feel bad seeing everyone running this if my deck relies on creatures, will be interesting to see how this shapes the metagame or maybe promote decks to run fewer threats that can get Push'ed.
I just love Splinter Twin. I am a Grixis Delver player and an Infect one atm, but I am trying to find the closest thing to Splinter Twin to play with those specific cards and I would love to hear some more ideas out. I just hate RUG Scapeshift with a passion, so don't mention that So, what's your thoughts? Is it some Kiki-Exarch build? Is it Madcap Moon? Is it Grixis Delver? Some other kind of control/tempo build?
It might the closest deck to old twin though it is not as fast as the "G/R Ramp" version.
I am on said UR Breach deck, its pretty strong and my favorite deck in the format. It is all i have played in weeks and i have to say, probably my best performing deck as of the last 3 months. That said the deck hasnt ever really been explored, at least from the information online, though there are some decklists, suggestions and results posted sporadically over the last 3 years if you look hard enough. Im currently running 2 MB Blood Moon and 4 Spreading Seas to give it a more proactive feel as opposed to holding up Mana Leak or Izzet Charm (both of which i would recommend against in this deck). If you want my exact 75 shoot me a PM, ill give you what i can to help.
Turns out SCG put out a video today of Infect vs Grixis Delver feat. Brad Nelson and Ross Merriam. Towards the end of the video after the rounds conclude, they discuss their opinions on Gitaxian Probe and what it is fueling in Modern. Pretty good listen if you have the time.
I feel the need to preface this with this caution as everytime i make a post someone gets huffy puffy. I like Gitaxian Probe. I do think it adds an unhealthy element to the format. I do think it should be banned but now might not be the best time for that. In my opinion, Dredge and Bant Eldrazi are where the focus should be in regards to the format's health. But this offers insight to the other side of the argument and with some sound reason.
Mutagenic growth is A LOT worse than probe will ever be for modern. Probe has spawned two tier 1 infect look a like decks because people just now figured out that the card is broken.
Debatable. Probe is what checks to see if the coast is clear. It looks to see what your deck has to play around to get in the 1 hit you need. It cantrips, provides incredible information, fuels Delve, and has virtually no cost in deck building. It is all upside and no downside. It removes the "what if" feeling when playing the pump spell decks against decks with removal and interaction. You dont have to play around that counter they dont have or you gotta play around a pair of Bolts, that kind of information for those strategies is what is broken about the card. Probe seems like a fine card on its own but its purpose in these linear decks is to see if the coast is clear for that early kill. People underestimate the power of the information it gives, its primarily the reason it is played. Cantripping and fueling Delve is the cherry and icing.
Turns out SCG put out a video today of Infect vs Grixis Delver feat. Brad Nelson and Ross Merriam. Towards the end of the video after the rounds conclude, they discuss their opinions on Gitaxian Probe and what it is fueling in Modern. Pretty good listen if you have the time.
I feel the need to preface this with this caution as everytime i make a post someone gets huffy puffy. I like Gitaxian Probe. I do think it adds an unhealthy element to the format. I do think it should be banned but now might not be the best time for that. In my opinion, Dredge and Bant Eldrazi are where the focus should be in regards to the format's health. But this offers insight to the other side of the argument and with some sound reason.
I'm coming from standard and want to play some modern, any deck I can easily convert? I sold a bunch of stuff, and primarily have from Origins and up.
I have 4 Jace's Vyrn's Prodigy
I dont think so. Jace VP doesnt see Modern play anymore. It used to in 2 deck, Grixis Reanimator (Goryo/Breach) and Grixis Midrange (which is now mostly just Delver) so it doesnt see play in any good Modern deck currently. And nothing in Standard from the last 2 or 3 years is enough to try to "move" to Modern. Kind of just have to pick a deck and start buying pieces.
I dont think that they are the MOST deserving of a ban from the pump decks, however if Wizards wants to avoid banning Become Immense, these are the next 2 targets.
But my arguement is that if the Dredge or Drazi decks take a hit, then the format will shift towards midrange decks which will keep these pump spell decks under control. Then these Phyrexian spells wont need to be considered to slow it down.
But what beats Dredge and Eldrazi? Unfair, early, aggressive pump spell decks.
I've quoted a few sentences that i want to further discuss.
We all know those phyrexian mana spells were a design mistake. However, cards like Probe or Growth are played in many different decks and only make some of them competitive. Suicide Zoo, Suicide Bloo, those various U/R or Jeskai Prowess builds, Infect or Zoo and Probe is played in many combo decks too. Banning those cards would cripple so many decks which could easily survive a BI ban or don't even run it. Therefore i think BI should be the only card beeing considered banworthy. You are right though, those are all linear and fast aggro/combo decks but it would do the format no good if so many decks would get hit.
I have the feeling that the meta always cycles itself unless a deck is completely broken (eldrazi winter). The more dredge and Bant Eldrazi decks are out there, the more Infect/DSZ/etc. rise to pray on those decks which on the other hand makes fair Jund/Junk/Grixis strategies show up again to fight those fast decks and then the cycle continous. Dredge and Eldrazi can also be hated out (you mentioned that too) if people are expecting those decks.
One could argue the Probe being banned would be a good thing if it is run in SO many decks. The decks trying to play it are fundamentally trying to cheat on mana or push a real quick kill. That is all i am saying. Almost all the decks you mentioned are the linear decks that many players feel are unfair. You admit it was a design mistake, why allow it to continue to be a mistake? If it helps the format in the long run it seems like an easy choice. Ponder and Preordain were banned for making combo too consistent. Gitaxian Probe fills a similar role in the above mentioned decks.
Keep in mind i LOVE Probe, i own a set and run them in my UR Thing deck and 3 in my Delver list, its a great card, but this is my trying to have an unbiased opinion in terms of the format's health and longevity. Gitaxian Probe is the 3rd most played card in Modern, it serves an unfair role for virtually no cost.
I feel that Probe and BI are about equal in terms of how likely they are to get the ax but highly unlikely any receives such a ban at this announcement. My gut tells me that this time around either Eldrazi or Dredge takes a hit. 6 months down the line if the format continues with its degeneracy then we can look at Probe, Growth and BI and know if it is their fault or not. While they might be a problem, we can see after the format slows down a bit if either Dredge or Drazi lose a piece to allow fair decks to try to fight the field.
By this logic, ban PtE and Bolt, because they both see more play than Git Probe.
It wasnt the center of my focus but rather a supporting point. It only sees play in the unfair decks relying on pump spells or a critical mass of spells to cause a turn 2/3/4 kill.
Bolt and Path see no play in the linear degenerate decks that plague Modern.
Btw, should be a good thing that both Bolt and Path are seeing more play than Probe, means the fair decks are playing the best answers to creature decks that are currently EVERYWHERE. Look at Force of Will in Legacy, kill spells fill a similar role here in Modern. Probe does not.
Also your bias comes across as pretty strong. I look at your signature and it looks like every deck you play is running a set of the aforementioned Probe.
Not fit for this thread but i do want to point out this is a fun idea for Frontier if anyone actually plays or brews there.
I mentioned before the bannings that the format would become favorable to UB Tezz soon. It can beat up the fair decks and the fast decks. It has an okay time against the big mana decks as well. However i would be looking at Tezzeret himself, Ensnaring Bridge or Mox Opal for gains.
No mana rocks is a big stand out to me. I really like Talisman.
My LGS meta is as follows.
Deaths Shadow Aggro*
GW Hatebears
BW Eldrazi and Taxes X2*
Bant Eldrazi X2**
U Tron-
GR Tron
Eldrazi Tron*
Living End
Dredge*
Elves
Abzan X3*-
UR Skred Swans
Mardu Madcap-
UW Control
Esper Control*
UW Spirits
Burn X2
Jund X1-2*-
Infect-
Grixis Delver X2*-
Ad Nauseam*
Jeskai Control-
*: Pilot also owns another deck with a '*' mark and alternates.
-: Pilot isnt there every week.
Luckily there isnt a ton of aggro running around. Most players are playing some midrange or ramp deck which is sweet to build for.
Does anyone else have a similarly slower meta?
I have Bogles sleeved up for my gauntlet, as often as i am playing it i hardly ever want to see any creature that dies to removal. I mostly just care about jaming a Scout/Bogle and being fast. It could help but i think it wouldnt be run as more than a 1 or 2 of. Spiritdancer is better, it turns your Umbras into permanent Giant Growths that save it after a kill spell. Sram doesnt do that. Sram will always just sit there to let you draw and in that situation, Spiritdancer is just better.
I tend to agree with your posts but Stoneforge should NOT come back especially now. We do not know how the format will look or what Push will do to the format. As soon as i saw Push spoiled i thought, "Wow, thats incredible. I want to play that card. Oh wait. *****. This is real good. It hits almost everything. Even every threat in my Jund deck. Oh crap. It hits everything in my Jund deck." i can only imagine how many players looked at it and imagined their deck getting smacked around by that card. Maybe its powerful and maybe the format is better for it and maybe more interaction will become the norm, but adding Stoneforge AND Push at the same time seems crazy to me.
Imagine a BWx deck, Junk, Esper, or just Orzhov, with Stoneforge Mystic, Swords, Batterskull, Bitterblossom, hand disruption, Path, Push, Lingering Souls and a mean SB. Mmmmmmmm.
As of late, i havent been playing Jund due to the local metagame. This just makes me want to stay away from Jund until they get a new toy. I could sleeve Abzan but playing a slower deck with creatures doesnt FEEL like where i want to be going forward. Especially since Tron is going to be a great metagame choice. If i was on Tron right now i would be jumping for joy. UR Prowess, Infect, Suicide, Affinity, decks playing creatures are going to become rarer. Tron will eat up all the Push decks. But maybe we enter a crazy situation where it cycles back to small creature aggro. Crazy how a metagame works.
Push makes the decks it fits into better against the decks they were already slightly favored in and tips the scale. It makes their poor matchups better choices (Tron, Eldrazi, Lantern) because their predator's are suppressed by their favorite matchup. But maybe it will bring balance to the force.
Push WILL slow the format down. The fast decks will still exist but will either be a metachoice to Tron/Eldrazi/Lantern or just be fewer in number.
Has anyone mentioned UB Tezzeret got a great card? Because they can win from Thopter/Sword to beat Push AND play Push, which is noteworthy.
Agreed. My local meta has shifted towards midrange decks and aggro. Delver, Burn, Infect, Affinity, Zoo, UR Prowess, im going to throw some in Jund when they release, will test MD and probably end up with a split in SB. I havent played Jund locally in months as there are lots of other BGx decks and i have been running UR Breach. Im excited to sleeve my Goyfs again. But maybe this makes Jund go back to rocking Tasigur as a way to deal with other Fatal Push decks. Its going to feel bad seeing everyone running this if my deck relies on creatures, will be interesting to see how this shapes the metagame or maybe promote decks to run fewer threats that can get Push'ed.
I am on said UR Breach deck, its pretty strong and my favorite deck in the format. It is all i have played in weeks and i have to say, probably my best performing deck as of the last 3 months. That said the deck hasnt ever really been explored, at least from the information online, though there are some decklists, suggestions and results posted sporadically over the last 3 years if you look hard enough. Im currently running 2 MB Blood Moon and 4 Spreading Seas to give it a more proactive feel as opposed to holding up Mana Leak or Izzet Charm (both of which i would recommend against in this deck). If you want my exact 75 shoot me a PM, ill give you what i can to help.
Debatable. Probe is what checks to see if the coast is clear. It looks to see what your deck has to play around to get in the 1 hit you need. It cantrips, provides incredible information, fuels Delve, and has virtually no cost in deck building. It is all upside and no downside. It removes the "what if" feeling when playing the pump spell decks against decks with removal and interaction. You dont have to play around that counter they dont have or you gotta play around a pair of Bolts, that kind of information for those strategies is what is broken about the card. Probe seems like a fine card on its own but its purpose in these linear decks is to see if the coast is clear for that early kill. People underestimate the power of the information it gives, its primarily the reason it is played. Cantripping and fueling Delve is the cherry and icing.
I feel the need to preface this with this caution as everytime i make a post someone gets huffy puffy. I like Gitaxian Probe. I do think it adds an unhealthy element to the format. I do think it should be banned but now might not be the best time for that. In my opinion, Dredge and Bant Eldrazi are where the focus should be in regards to the format's health. But this offers insight to the other side of the argument and with some sound reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2aAqMP0zos&feature=youtu.be
I dont think so. Jace VP doesnt see Modern play anymore. It used to in 2 deck, Grixis Reanimator (Goryo/Breach) and Grixis Midrange (which is now mostly just Delver) so it doesnt see play in any good Modern deck currently. And nothing in Standard from the last 2 or 3 years is enough to try to "move" to Modern. Kind of just have to pick a deck and start buying pieces.
It wasnt the center of my focus but rather a supporting point. It only sees play in the unfair decks relying on pump spells or a critical mass of spells to cause a turn 2/3/4 kill.
Bolt and Path see no play in the linear degenerate decks that plague Modern.
Btw, should be a good thing that both Bolt and Path are seeing more play than Probe, means the fair decks are playing the best answers to creature decks that are currently EVERYWHERE. Look at Force of Will in Legacy, kill spells fill a similar role here in Modern. Probe does not.
Also your bias comes across as pretty strong. I look at your signature and it looks like every deck you play is running a set of the aforementioned Probe.